Training For Rollbacks

[thebp]

Would like some tips on getting a horse to do rollbacks like you see in jumper of eq courses. You see a lot of nice turns happen like a stride after the fence and I'd really like to work on getting my horse to perform tighter turns.

Also my horse does not rush fences but can get a little pulley after a fence and would love some feedback on preventing this.

Thanks

[CatchMeIfUCan]

Get a dressage trainer.

[Junebugz]

Get a dressage trainer.

Good Idea. Your horse must know collection first. Sidepassing is also helpful in the horse understanding how to step across with his front end. At home start walking squares at each corner, stop, place your inside leg at the girth for the horse to bend around, and then push your horse around with the outside leg just behind the girth. Meanwhile hold your horse steady while slightly flexed to the inside. The outer rein should have a steady contact and may even be placed against the neck. When he executes 1 or 2 crossover steps in the turn ease up and let him walk straight out of it. Eventually you can start adding more steps and then work at executing them while moving. When you can successfully do this at the walk without halting you can attempt it from a collected canter. Remember less is more until the horse gains some strength. Good luck!

[Serah]

I second everything that has already been said....

A helpful exercise: Canter a small fence on a circle... practice looking through your turn and shaping your horse in the air... Opening rein in the air can help guide your horse as well.... When you feel correct and smooth on a circle rotate the direction you turn on the backside, making a figure 8 over the fence.... EYES EYES EYES!!!

[superpony123]

get a dressage trainer!

but in the mean time: practice the turns, just without the jumps. set up standards with poles or something instead of an actual jump, and work on making them smaller and smaller gradually. also work on spiraling in and out, at the trot and canter. spend more time on the smaller circle before spiraling out again. balance is VERY important for all of this!

[Junebugz]

Another great exercise is to set up three verticles in a "T" shape with a little space between each at the center. Practice going from one to the other making a tight turn. You will make loops around one of the verticles each time, kind of like a cloverleaf pattern. LOL draw it out on paper it will make sense. Of course start this at the trot. An above poster mentioned opening rein....this is very important. Make sure your body is square but keep your head up and look with your eyes and follow with your head. This will keep the horse from dropping his shoulder or twisting. This is a very demanding exercise on the horse so don't spend too much time on it or you will tax your horses tendons and muscles. It is a good exercise to practice once a week for about 10 minutes at the most. Eventually you will be able to square, sit into your saddle look and your horse will drive into your reins and oullah! he turns.

[CatchMeIfUCan]

The "circle of death" is very helpful as well.

Set up 4 small verticals without placing poles on the four points of a 20 meter circle (like the 2 at the top and bottom are parallell to the rail and the 2 on the sides are perpendicular to the rail). Start off with trotting just one, then trotting 2... until you canter in to all 4 of them in both directions. It is pretty difficult and will feel like crap the first couple of rounds, but once you get it you feel on top of the world!

We also set up gymnastic exercises around the corners instead of on a straight side. Something like bounce, bounce on the very end of the long side to 1 or 2 one strides around the corner to a 2 stride coming out.

We also do the cloverleaf one, but with 4 jumps in a zig zag pattern (like 2 L's hooked together on the center line).
l_
. l_

[Dixon]

Do you already know how to perform a turn on the haunches? If not, start there.

[mvp]

A dressage trainer is right. But he/she will tell you not to do (or that you can't do) what I'll suggest.

First, the fences don't matter. If you know you want to land and turn, please sit up and find a quiet, close to the base distance.

Otherwise, take the fences out of the equation but perhaps use a pole on the ground both to help you practice getting the close spot you want and inviting your horse to make the mistake of launching himself. Both of you need to learn not to.

Finally (and the dressage part): Think about riding a canter pirouette. As Dixon said, if you can't do a prompt turn on the haunches at the walk, start there. You need to learn to ride the outside of the horse and to do all this with your body and leg, not much hand.

The way to ride this kind of jumper canter pirouette is to ask for a stride, let go for a stride, ask for a stride, let go for a stride. You may need just a tad of inside rein to say "Yo! Where going in this direction." But the turn comes primarily from your outside leg and your hand for the one "taking" stride. Your hand mainly says "stop, and raise your shoulders." Your outside leg says "And put your shoulders back down over there."

Make sense? The key is alternating between strides "on" and "off" with your aids. This will keep your horse from having anything to lean on.

[grandprixjump]

Where I got yelled at for working on rollbacks on a horse jumping 3' to 3'6. So if your horse isn't jumping at Grand Prix level DON'T EVEN START THEM...:lol::lol::lol:

Actually a Dressage coach is a great suggestion, and you might find one with an upper level school master to ride in some of your lessons, so you can feel what a Canter Pirouette feels like on a trained horse...

[PNWjumper]

I agree with all of the above. Especially the "get a dressage trainer" part. Getting a horse properly collected is a BIG step in completing "jumper tidy" turns. I also like the turning-on-a-circle exercise, making the circle bigger and smaller as you go.

[Hauwse]

While dressage training is never a bad idea it seems a little excessive for learning to executing rollbacks, something horses do naturally, and something you probably already have the tool set for now.

First I want to address your question regarding your horse getting heavy after a fence. Chances are that "heavy" feeling you get is simply your horse getting on his front-end after the fence. This is common the horse lands and instead of lifting and driving him into the bit we tend to want to let them fall forward for a few strides. This is especially common for those of us who want to use the neck for balance over a fence.

It may seem counter-intuitive but what you need to do to lighten your horses front end is get them on their hind-end, and that means lifting them up asking them to step under themselves. If you are familiar with building impulsion it is the exact same thing, ask your horse to increase his stride while resisting any increase in pace. It is important that when you do this that you lift your hands and that you keep them wide, thumbs up, so that you are not bracing, that is not the same aid and will most likely result in more lugging from the horse.

This follows into your roll backs. If you want good clean roll backs your horse has to be on his hind-end, or else you run the risk of turning them off their feet. In the same way when you ask a horse to halt you have to engage that hind-end, you need to do the same when asking for a roll back.

Ask for a half-halt and as soon as you feel that hind-end under you, ask for a turn using the same aids you would for any turn, keeping in mind that you need to maintain the impulsion throughout the turn.

The exercises you can do to help assist in developing your roll backs are the same old basic hunter/jumper dressage based flat exercises, halts, half-halts, shoulder-in, turn on the haunches etc., etc., The better your horse is on the flat with the aids the better, the better your horse is going to be between the fences.

[findeight]

First take the jumps out and practice your flatwork.

Then do flatwork working on proper posture and seat control (hip angle).

Then do flatwork on increasing and decreasing stride length using seat control instead of hand.

Then do flatwork practicing proper use of inside and outside rein.

The do flatwork concentrating on laterals.

Then do flatwork learning coordinated use of inside and outside leg on circles.

Oh...wait, isn't that the dreaded D word? But a DECENT H/J trainer can help you learn these because they use them all the time. If they don't? Find one that does-huge hole in finishing a horse, a rider or problem solving there.

THEN you can set your wheel of death starting with poles on the ground and put all that you master to work with fences.

I think you will find this kind of flatwork helps you position the horse at the base of the fence better-which is where you start to set up your inside turn/rollback. Helps them land with better balance and not in a heap as well.

I do these excercises with my old Hunter-all the flat first (ouch)- and include a few a rollbacks on low fences and small, square oxers and it helps the heck out of her Hunter rounds.

[tidy rabbit]

One thing that helps me with my turns is thinking of steering my horse by his shoulders and not his head. A good image I like is that my horse has a headlight in the center of his chest and I need to aim that headlight where I want to go.

Another thing that I'm presently working on with my 4 y.o. is landing off a jump and halting, then back into the canter to ride our turn to the next jump. Then after we've done that several times we just half halt one stride after landing and then ride the turn to the jump.

You don't want to have to make any adjustments in the turn itself. You want all your balancing done before you go into the turn.

I also ride with a Dressage trainer and can't say enough good things about how it's helped me and the horses.

[meupatdoes]

First do a roll back TO a jump.

So, come up the longside, ride past something on the quarterline, put your eye on it over your shoulder and turn to it.

An easier version is to put the jump on the outside and ride up the quarterline, because the edge of the arena can help you 'enclose' the horse for the turn.

If your horse is pulley on landing, land and halt. Pet him, back a step, pet him, canter from that.



When that is really smooth turning both directions, and when you have a soft, waiting horse on landing, THEN do jump, rollback, jump.

[tidy rabbit]

If your horse is pulley on landing, land and halt. Pet him, back a step, pet him, canter from that.


Whats with all the "pet" stuff? GM would have a fit! LOL

[meupatdoes]

Whats with all the "pet" stuff? GM would have a fit! LOL

Shhhh, don't tell anyone but yesterday my young hunter who is learning his changes got a sugar cube from the saddle after each one.

*ducks and runs*

*(but had 100% changes yesterday too, mm hmm)*

[tidy rabbit]

Shhhh, don't tell anyone but yesterday my young hunter who is learning his changes got a sugar cube from the saddle after each one.

*ducks and runs*

*(but had 100% changes yesterday too, mm hmm)*

:eek: :D :lol:

Love that!

[mvp]

I think DQs can get neoprene pouches for sugar cubes that hang off the belt. I have seen "those people" stop and feed sugar from the back throughout a ride.

P. S. I don't think rollbacks or canter pirouettes are rocket science reserved for really high level peeps. You can do them for a quarter circle. You can do them with the hind end simply making a smaller circle than the front, but not staying in place. Heck, you can even ride them a bit badly while you learn to attain Nirvana.

Don't beat your horse for not delivering a great one, or brag to your local DQ that your horse does 'em. But, in the privacy of your own jumper ring at home, certainly use this bit of training as it suits you. My cheesy little hunter knows what I mean when I ask for a stride of canter pirouette and the result is a horse that can do a handy course with very little hand involved. We both like it.

[BridalBridle]

I second everything that has already been said....

A helpful exercise: Canter a small fence on a circle... practice looking through your turn and shaping your horse in the air... Opening rein in the air can help guide your horse as well.... When you feel correct and smooth on a circle rotate the direction you turn on the backside, making a figure 8 over the fence.... EYES EYES EYES!!!

very well said!!!!! I did this exercise for a month with an event medalist in preparation for Harrisburg A/O HUNTERS of all things. He explained the fence was never the issue, but the turn and keeping the rhythm. It was SO hard (after 50 yrs of habits) to use the outside rein for balance and to keep the circle round. I kept wanting to "square" the corners. We didn't even use a jump but a pole on the ground.This was a tiny circle.
I like the dressage rider idea too. The event trainers have a lot of dressage background so that's a good source of learning this.

[carrie_girl]

Great ideas! I am currently a dressage rider who used to do jumpers and event. I got into dressage (like most event riders!) only because I wanted to jump cross country, but it sure did help my jumping! BTW, all you H/J people who are getting the stink-eye from your dressage trainers for doing "canter pirouettes" can avoid that by throwing the word "school" in font of "pirouette". I know exactly what you guys are talking about, but it is not a "true" pirouette like you could show in a GP dressage test. School pirouettes are training tools often used even with lower level horses.

Anyway, I used to be one of the only riders at my level (3'6-3'9) who could execute a proper roll back, and I used to clean up because of it. Nowadays I think (hope?) riders are much better making balanced turns and not just running their horses off their feet to try to go fast.

To me, where you need to start is with two skills: making your horse's stride very adjustable, and school pirouettes. If your horse can't adjust his stride/rock him back on his haunches, the turn will never be balanced. I would start by asking my horse to lengthen down the long side, shorten on the short side, focusing on being able to make the transition using half halts with your seat and leg and changing your hip angle (close for lengthen open for shorten). If you use your reins too much the back end will fall out behind you instead of coming under, and you will most likely have a pissed off pony. The shortened canter should feel light and springy. After you are good at this, on the long side lengthen for 7 strides, shorten for 7, and repeat, cantering normally on the short side. When you are good at 7 strides, cut it down to 5 and eventually to 3. When you are good at that, try doing this on a 20 m circle. This exercise does wonders for balance while adjusting. I also agree with the suggestion to do spiral in-out on a circle. These exercises will strengthen your horse's hind end and give you the adjustability you need to set up the turn.

Of course, the other side of the equation is the lateral work. I am sure your horse already knows how to move off the leg, but if not start there. Then start working on haunches-in. After your horse can (at the walk) haunches-in, straighten, repeat, you can start trying this at the canter as well. When you are good at this you can start thinking about school pirouettes. Truth be told, a pirouette is really just haunches-in on a circle. Obviously, the smaller the circle the harder the degree of difficulty. If you haven't learned how to to do a proper walk pirouette (turn on the haunches) now is the time. A very common mistake is to let the hind legs cross. The hind legs should make a very small circle (marching and coming under, never pivotting or crossing) while the front legs come around them. Don't try to do a tiny one to start with. It is harder than it looks, and the rail is your friend in the beginning. After you have felt what it feels like to bring your horse's front around the hind end you can start trying to achieve this feeling at the canter. I would start on a 20 m circle and only ask for 2-3 strides at a time to begin with, and build from there.

Eventually you are going to put this all together to make a rollback. I agree, that you should start by doing a rollback on the quarterline to a jump on the rail and working from there. In warm up for my classes I used to always do an exercise where I would lengthen down the rail, shorten for a stride or two, rollback, lead change. I would do it maybe twice each direction and it really helped me to have an adjustable horse and be ready for my turns on course.

Good luck and have fun!!!

[Seven-up]

Haven't read any of the replies, so I might be repeating.


12 step circles. Like you're riding on the face of a clock. 3 strides from 12 to 3, 3 strides from 3 to 6, etc. Setting out some cones or jump standards helps to give you a visual.

If you can't get around in 12 steps, go back to basic extending and collecting work. Canter along the rail, and ask your horse to extend on the long sides (get into a half seat) and come back to a normal canter on the short sides (Sit down, squeeze with your legs, and close your hands.) Ride into the corners and ask for a nice bend. Once you get that, ask for some collection instead of just going back to that normal canter. If you can ride into 4 corners in a collected canter, you can do a 12 step circle.

A rollback is more about your position. Sit up, keep your upper body back, step to the outside and pull the horse's body over with your inside leg to keep him from leaning inside. Use an indirect inside rein, and sometimes it helps to move both hands towards the outside. Don't forget about looking where you want to go. Once a rider knows how to ride a rollback, they can do one on any horse, even a really green one.

A dressage trainer is great, and so is a good jumper trainer that focuses on flatwork. Both are basically the same thing, give or take some terminology.

[mvp]

carrie-girl-- Break it down, sister!

The rest of y'all should read her post. She does a great job of taking apart the riding and training tools or elements of a good jumper turn.

It is about having a horse whose stride is quickly, easily adjustable.

It's also about the rider's ability to do lateral work versus simply turning. I find this comes from educating the rider first. The quality of the horse's lateral work will follow.

In any case, her point that these are separate parts of the equation is well-taken.