Exercises to Tighten Jumping Position?

[IrishWillow]

I'm sorry if this has been covered already...

I have a twofold question, actually. Here is my problem... I jump WAYYYY ahead of my horse. She is a saint to keep jumping with me landing on her neck like this. I'm not jumping high, and I've been riding all my life, so its not really a lack of balance thing.. its a lack of timing thing. Or so it feels like. What can I do to work on this? Our flatwork is good (quite good, actually.. horse is really coming along) and she's doing great over fences.. I'm just literally trying to crawl up her ears. Any advice to help me not to jump ahead? Gymnastic exercises, visualizations, (a straightjacket? :lol:) ?

Also.. My job consists of traveling M-F, so I only get to ride weekends. I feel like I'd ride better and be tighter in the tack if I were in better shape. I do yoga 1-2x a week, but any "at home / on the road" exercises I can do that will increase my fitness for riding, when I dont have access to a horse? Do yall have a DVD or anything that you specifically like? :D

Any help would be appreciated,

TryingNotToFallOff in Texas!

[PlantersPunch]

Jumping without stirrups, without reins, or even with your eyes closed should really help with this. Especially when you close your eyes, you have to rely on feeling the horse underneath you and waiting for them to fold your body.

Setting up a shoot or doing this on the lunge line would probably be the best way to do this.

Good luck!

[Wonders12]

I was actually just talking to someone about how I JUST fixed this. I know COTHers are going to kill me for this answer, but that's ok.

I've been really trying to improve my eq for the past couple months (riding lesson horses since I don't have my own) and everything seemed to be improving except my eye and and jumping ahead. I just COULD NOT fix it.

So last week my instructor threw my on a wonderful horse who can easily clear 4ft courses. I usually jump fairly small and started out with that (just a single vertical) then as I came around to the jump again, my instructor moved it up. Way up! Way high (for me :) ). We jumped it perfect. The jump was high enough to really scare my so I looked way past the jump (so I could hardly even see it in my peripheral) grabbed a finger full of mane, counted down the strides, and voila! I great jump!

I knew I couldn't jump a jump that high for her (like I sometimes feel I can do over small jumps :D) so I really had to wait until she said "now." Once again, she's a saint of a horse who always gets her strides, but it gave me the confidence and the feeling of staying put just enough to bring that to other horses.

Do you have a trainer who you trust that can put you on a similar, more experienced horse? It really only took me 1 or 2 jumps to figure it out.

If that's not possible, what really helps me now it not looking at the jump. AT ALL. I thought I was already looking past the jump, but now I over exagerate it a lot. As soon as I turn towards to jump, I'm now looking WAY past it. As far as I possibly can so I can hardly see the jump. Having to feel the last stride to the jump instead of see it has really helped me out.

The only other thing I would say, is don't be afraid to grab a little finger full of mane. This way I wasn't so concerned about throwing myself up the neck, because even if I did get left behind, I wouldn't catch my horse in the mouth.

Good luck! I know that this is really frustrating to deal with, and I'm curious to see what others say, too.

[moonriverfarm]

I have the same problem which developed after trying to stay with a difficult jumper over many months. Thanks for these suggestions, although I ride alone most of the time and the without hands thing won't work too well!

[Lone]

Lots and lots of time without stirrups!
I try and spend 5-10 minutes of every ride working without stirrups, if you aren't comfortable jumping without them then just do some flat work for now until you get more comfortable. It'll help a ton

[beninni3]

Lone-wow, I try to ride w/o stirrups 1-2x a month haha.

In terms of not jumping ahead, I agree with the no stirrups, reins part. Do lots of grid work. If you have access to any outdoor jumps (this is the eventer in me coming out) drops are a really good way to fix it as well. When you know the ground is lower on landing you tend to sit back and wait much more! As for exercises, I don't remember the name of the book my mom has, but there are several out there that are designed for riders. They focus on strengthening exercises for the core and legs. Good luck :)

[IrishWillow]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions!

I agree.. the bigger the jump, the more jumped out of the tack I get.

My previous horse was a slow low motor hunter type and I felt like I had to pick him up over fences, whereas my new mare is fairly forward and eager to fences. She's got a big jump and I'm just getting tossed around!

I also agree that some no stirrups work might help.. like, my myself post without stirrups for 10 mins. I'm going to try to walk a few times a week here (the weather hasnt cooperated this week!) and try to get more fit in general.

[CatchMeIfUCan]

I haven't read all the posts so forgive me if this has been said, but...

I throw my shoulders over small fences with my horse because I'm trying to jump for him (ya right!). I was in a clinic with Jimmy Wofford this year, and he did not like that at all! I tried to fix it after the first time he yelled at me, but I was still doing it. He then took a crop from another rider and put it through my elbows behind my back. He demonstrated what would happen to my leg if I threw my shoulders too far forward (it would slide back) or too far backward (it would slide forward), then made me jump a 2'6" vertical like that. It sure made me sit up! Once I got the feeling, I haven't done it since. It really helps to know what it should feel like so that you can do it that way instead. I also try to think of opening my shoulders more and pushing my butt back to counteract it.

Edited to say:
Why the heck would you not look at the jump when approaching it? Your timing would always be very off. Jimmy teaches to look at the top of the jump until it disappears between your horse's ears. When the fence is low that happens pretty far away from the fence, but as it gets higher, you are definitely looking at the fence on most of the approach.

[KateKat]

you know, one thing that helped me beside strengthening my leg was doing a correct crest release and making sure my stirrups were the right length. There was a conversation on here about crest releases awhile back and it turned out I was doing it wrong...when I started doing it correctly, (no more floating hands) my base of support was much more stable which allowed me to flow with the horse better. This is kind of along the lines of grabbing mane...its just a little something extra. Also, I've found when my stirrups are too long and I'm reaching for them, I will put more weight in my toes which encourages jumping ahead, instead of keeping the base stable and folding from my hip.

[imapepper]

Honestly....I like pilates way better than yoga to strengthen your core muscles. I think the best I ever felt riding is when I was doing pilates 2 x per week and running about 15-20 miles per week. I am sure you can find a pilates dvd to take with you when you travel. I was doing classes at 24 hour fitness.

As far as on the horse, you tend to jump ahead and you duck ;) If you fix the ducking, you will probably fix the jumping ahead. One good fix for ducking is bounces. You end up in big trouble if you duck in a gymnastic of 3 bounces ;) Another is jumping with no hands in a gymnastic. But since your horse is a bit green....those might not be the most productive way to fix the issue. If you can find someone with a good schoolie, those exercises would work wonders for you :)

As someone else has already said, looking past the jump helps a bunch. Also think about keeping your hands in front of your body on the approach and thinking about pushing yourself away from her neck when you are jumping. She has plenty of neck ;) If you are relaxed and let your horse close your angle and push yourself off her neck so you do not collapse on her, it will make the picture much prettier. Trust me, I can duck with the best of them ;) But if I remember to keep my eyes up and hands in front, I do not duck nearly as bad :lol: And actually bigger jumps help me too. I duck the worst over little fences.

[Go Fish]

.. its a lack of timing thing.

Also.. My job consists of traveling M-F, so I only get to ride weekends. I feel like I'd ride better and be tighter in the tack if I were in better shape. I do yoga 1-2x a week, but any "at home / on the road" exercises I can do that will increase my fitness for riding, when I dont have access to a horse? Do yall have a DVD or anything that you specifically like?

Alot of good advice here...

George Morris says that jumping ahead is not a lack of timing, but trying to jump for your horse. He says something to the effect that you should practice waiting for the horse's jump to get your butt out of the saddle. If you are jumping ahead, it means that you are anticipating the horse leaving the ground and throwing your body up the horse's neck. Check threads on this subject...others may have said it better than I have.

One thing I'd add is check how your saddle fits you. Certain types of saddles make it very difficult to jump ahead. My DelGrange PJ completely cured me of this problem. And, as hard it sounds, learning to find distances helps immensely (easier said than done, I know! :lol:). Check yourself to make sure that you are not wiggling around to the fence when you don't see the distance. Sit still and wait until the distance comes to you. While coming out of the corner to the fence, my chant (instead of counting) is "sit still, sit still, sit still!" :D

Someone mentioned stirrup length...another biggy. If you are riding with your stirrups too long, you will jump ahead. Jack 'em up.

Lastly, there's nothing better for training your eye than spending time in the saddle, even if it's just going over poles on the ground. It sounds like your traveling is making this difficult...good luck and hang in there.

[Hony]

Edited to say:
Why the heck would you not look at the jump when approaching it? Your timing would always be very off. Jimmy teaches to look at the top of the jump until it disappears between your horse's ears. When the fence is low that happens pretty far away from the fence, but as it gets higher, you are definitely looking at the fence on most of the approach.

Jimmy's right (of course!) but I will say, there are times when coming to certain bogey fences that know I will pull or kick if I look at it so looking past it and focusing on keeping my legs on and my rhythm consistent ensures a good jump.

[virtus02]

I skipped through most of the posts on here but I assume they mostly say no stirrups and pole work and stuff like that. Although this will definitely help most people, I used to have this problem and it did not help me. I also had a horse that was a saint therefore in the back of my mind, I knew I could get away with murder. Word of advice, this might sound mean and I don't mean it to be, but it is probably true- Eventually, no matter how kind your horse may be, it WILL stop at a jump and it will become a problem that is very hard to overcome because leaning has become so habitual for you. My advice is to go ahead and do the flat work exercises but to also borrow a horse that is not as good as yours if possible. Once you have a horse stop with you because of this habit it may open your eyes up. Once this happens it may slap you across the face how important perfecting your timing is. I know it kind of sounds like horrible advice but this is what miraculously cured me of doing this. Please don't hate me for suggesting this!

[Jaegermonster]

I have a mare you can ride. I had the same problem and she fixed me. She's a dirty stopper.

[Wonders12]

Edited to say:
Why the heck would you not look at the jump when approaching it? Your timing would always be very off. Jimmy teaches to look at the top of the jump until it disappears between your horse's ears. When the fence is low that happens pretty far away from the fence, but as it gets higher, you are definitely looking at the fence on most of the approach.

Of course this is right, but it doesn't work for me. :lol: I probably over-exaggerated a little in my previous post to get the point across. When I come around to the jump, I look at it, pick a distance then look over it. I can still see the jump (especially standards) in my peripheral vision to adjust accordingly, I just don't look right at it. This is because I have a tendency to watch the jump go right under my horses neck (causing me to look down and jump ahead).

When I focus on something PAST the jump I'm able to keep my head and chest up (and therefore back) until the horse actually moves. Like someone said, it also helps me ride the horse and feel what's under me instead of anticipating.

This might be different for people jumping higher, but I don't (and the OP said she doesn't either) so this works for me! It's worth trying it because what she's doing isn't working. ;)

[EiRide]

My coach put me on a dirty fast stopping 13.3 hand pony. That will sort a person right out!

I'd check how the saddle fits *you*, and stirrup length. And don't make a bid for the fence, the horse should fold you, not you folding down to the horse.

[AvantGarde]

I agree with the no stirrups suggestions, however, don't push yourself to the point where you sacrifice correct position and start riding off your knees. You want an even contact throughout your legs, even without stirrups to use.

What particularly helped me with jumping ahead was a lot of strength training. I started hitting up the gym about 3-4x a week - squats, leg press, free weights, lat pull, etc. It's amazing how quickly you will see a difference in core strength, even after 2 weeks at the gym.

The other major things would be to make a conscious effort to tell yourself to sit up tall and keep your bum in the saddle. Do not make any changes to the horse about 3-4 strides out from the fence. Your job is to sit there and not move. That doesn't mean tense up/freeze, but you just want to maintain your leg on the horse's side, ride forward and look up!

Exaggerating how high your hands sit also helps the process. Pick them up ridiculously high - to the extent you feel like a 5-year-old at their first riding lesson. When you bring your hands up, your chest automatically opens, shoulders come back and it's easier to focus your eyes UP, instead of inching forward with your whole body and anticipating the jump early.

[IrishWillow]

Honestly....I like pilates way better than yoga to strengthen your core muscles. I think the best I ever felt riding is when I was doing pilates 2 x per week and running about 15-20 miles per week. I am sure you can find a pilates dvd to take with you when you travel. I was doing classes at 24 hour fitness.

As far as on the horse, you tend to jump ahead and you duck ;) If you fix the ducking, you will probably fix the jumping ahead. One good fix for ducking is bounces. You end up in big trouble if you duck in a gymnastic of 3 bounces ;) Another is jumping with no hands in a gymnastic. But since your horse is a bit green....those might not be the most productive way to fix the issue. If you can find someone with a good schoolie, those exercises would work wonders for you :)

As someone else has already said, looking past the jump helps a bunch. Also think about keeping your hands in front of your body on the approach and thinking about pushing yourself away from her neck when you are jumping. She has plenty of neck ;) If you are relaxed and let your horse close your angle and push yourself off her neck so you do not collapse on her, it will make the picture much prettier. Trust me, I can duck with the best of them ;) But if I remember to keep my eyes up and hands in front, I do not duck nearly as bad :lol: And actually bigger jumps help me too. I duck the worst over little fences.

I'm in Nacogdoches, J! We dont have new fangled pilates! :lol:

Hands up, forward, look past jump, push off neck. K.

Yeah, we were jumping bounces when this got REALLY ugly. :eek:

[IrishWillow]

George Morris says that jumping ahead is not a lack of timing, but trying to jump for your horse. He says something to the effect that you should practice waiting for the horse's jump to get your butt out of the saddle. If you are jumping ahead, it means that you are anticipating the horse leaving the ground and throwing your body up the horse's neck.

I absolutely do this. I've never had a "finished" horse in my life, so jumping has always been a combination of hope, prayer, etc.. :D

But, it looks like my current mount, although green, is pretty naturally talented since she is already basically packing me around. A lot of it is the "trust" issue that she wont stop, run out, crash, etc. So, I need to stop "helping" her off the ground!

[IrishWillow]

I skipped through most of the posts on here but I assume they mostly say no stirrups and pole work and stuff like that. Although this will definitely help most people, I used to have this problem and it did not help me. I also had a horse that was a saint therefore in the back of my mind, I knew I could get away with murder. Word of advice, this might sound mean and I don't mean it to be, but it is probably true- Eventually, no matter how kind your horse may be, it WILL stop at a jump and it will become a problem that is very hard to overcome because leaning has become so habitual for you. My advice is to go ahead and do the flat work exercises but to also borrow a horse that is not as good as yours if possible. Once you have a horse stop with you because of this habit it may open your eyes up. Once this happens it may slap you across the face how important perfecting your timing is. I know it kind of sounds like horrible advice but this is what miraculously cured me of doing this. Please don't hate me for suggesting this!

Haha.. dont hate you!

I think that is actually part of my problem.. my former horse was a random hard stopper, so I pretty much lost my confidence about timing, distance, etc. I'm too slow to the jump bc I'm not wanting to get launched if she stops.. even though my current horse is not by nature a stopper. I need to learn to sit back in the tack, for sure!

[IrishWillow]

The other major things would be to make a conscious effort to tell yourself to sit up tall and keep your bum in the saddle. Do not make any changes to the horse about 3-4 strides out from the fence. Your job is to sit there and not move. That doesn't mean tense up/freeze, but you just want to maintain your leg on the horse's side, ride forward and look up!

Exaggerating how high your hands sit also helps the process. Pick them up ridiculously high - to the extent you feel like a 5-year-old at their first riding lesson. When you bring your hands up, your chest automatically opens, shoulders come back and it's easier to focus your eyes UP, instead of inching forward with your whole body and anticipating the jump early.

I think you're totally right on both accounts!

I'm definitely going to be thinking "sit back, look past fence, hands up" for my next lesson...

[AddingStrides]

i've done it with a combination of exercise and changing position over fences.

here's how i've done it.
my trainer has me do two things. first, i do exercises at the trot where i go from posting the trot or sitting the canter into two point and hold it for one side of the indoor arena (approx. 12 canter strides) then go back to posting or sitting around the short side (approx 6 strides) then repeat it on the other side, and so on. this really works upper leg muscles.

the other thing she has me do on the flat to build muscles is to hold my position at the top of the post. that REALLY strengthens my lower back muscles. grab mane to hold the as you're developing the muscles to hold yourself in place. after ten years of working on my seat (incredible leg muscles) it only took two sessions before i could hold myself at the top of the post without grabbing mane.

then the other thing is to sit affirmatively (not hard, just definitely sit) two strides out from the fence, and loosen your elbows. DO NOT go into two point. Every other trainer I've worked with (and I have had several BBNT's) has had me go into two point as the horse leaves the ground. that's why so many hunters look in still pix as if they are throwing themselves up the horse's neck. good luck!!!!

[Monarch]

One other thing you might try is to shorten your stirrups. Sometimes this does the trick. Reaching for your your stirrups or the feeling (consciously or subconsciously) you can't get out of the tack -off the horses back will make one jump ahead of the motion.
M

[imapepper]

I'm in Nacogdoches, J! We dont have new fangled pilates! :lol:

I said get a pilates DVD ;) I understand that pilates classes might be hard to come by in Nacogdoches :lol:


Hands up, forward, look past jump, push off neck. K.

Yeah, we were jumping bounces when this got REALLY ugly. :eek:

:lol: Sorry to laugh but bounces really will teach you not to duck or jump ahead :lol: You'll get it :lol:

[blackcat95]

I used to have the same problem that the OP did, and it all eventually came back to me not being able to trust my horse and the weight not being in my heels. Even though the horse I learned to jump on and another horse I had were both saints and could find their own distances, I still would get nervous and try to jump for them. Finally my trainer figured out that I was jumping forward because my weight wasn't in my heels, and this was rocking me forward over my horses movement. So I started riding a lot of 2 point, stretching, and concentrating on sinking down over my horse and in my heels when jumping. It worked really well- a little too well, as now I snap up over fences because I get a little left behind, but I think that's just me! ;)

[indygirl2560]

I used to(somewhat still do) jump ahead a lot too. I'd start creeping up my horse's neck over even tiny fences. A lot of the suggestions on here are great. No stirrups are great for muscle strengthening but make sure your position is correct while doing no stirrup work or you'll create a bunch of other issues. Sitting up is one thing my trainer emphasizes to me when I'm jumping. When I lean at jumps it always ends up bad! Either I screw up distances, get jumped out of the tack, or the horse refuses. Someone mentioned not looking at the jump...that helps me too; I mean, I look at it, but I don't stare it down all the way to the end. If I look just over the jump, I find that I always get my distances.

I was hacking a horse for my trainer the other day in the same arena as the big jumper trainer in the barn was giving a lesson and I heard her constantly tell her student(who was jumping 4ft stuff) to lift her hands and let the horse rock back. I made a conscious effort to lift my hands in my next lesson and my trainer commented on how great I was sitting up and not leaning. Good luck!

[patina.marc]

I would like to respond to the second part of your question...PILATES, PILATES, PILATES!! As a frequent traveler, the last thing I want to do is schlep extra stuff like tennis shoes, shorts, t-shirts, etc. on my trip. I also really want to stay away from the pool and the lears of the traveling sales reps who want to chat and drink!! Learn Pilates. You can easily do exercises in the privacy of your hotel room. Strengthening your core doesn't require a lot of props. An excersize band fits into the corner of your bag with no added bulk or weight. You can also get many cd's on the market to pop into the laptop you are probably schlepping anyhow!! Check out Beth Glosten's pilates instructions for the rider!! You will do wonders for yourself and your riding with pilates!!

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I have a mare you can ride. I had the same problem and she fixed me. She's a dirty stopper.

You beat me. I have a gelding you can borrow (maybe you prefer riding boys?) He too is a dirty stopper and will cure you REAL quick.

Of course now my personal problem is that I sit back and wait to long and get left behind *sigh*

[RugBug]

I think my post will be the 4th time someone mentions shortening your stirrups.

Are you in the habit of shortening them for jumping at least one full hole from your flat length? You'll be surprised how this gets you to sit up, wait and not launch your body at your horse. If you're stirrups are the correct length for jumping, you will push your bottom back and keep your legs under you. It's the only way to keep your center of gravity over the horses.

Too long stirrups encourage jumping ahead and an unstable, swinging leg.