COPD symptom? ventipulmin side effect?

[dmalbone]

Sorry about all the COPD questions lately. So my horse hasn't coughed at all today and the ventipulmin really seems to be helping. He's not breathing rapidly any more, still a little deeply, no wheezing, but a slight quiet grunting/groaning/sign noise every so often- not regularly though. The weird symptoms though... he does appear/feel to be sweating a bit without working. He's not flaring his nostrils and doesn't appear distressed though. I know ventipulmin can cause jitteriness. Would sweatiness (really more just a little damp on his chest and flanks) be because of this? His back legs have looked a little shaky as well up by his flank. More like he goes to take a step and there's visible shakiness... almost like when I use my albuterol inhaler and my hand shakes when I move it, but fine when just resting.

The last weird thing that started on the ventipulmin and wasn't going on before is kind of a stuttered breathing. When he inhales you can see and feel the breathing really almost stuttered. It doesn't seem hard for him to actually breathe, it's just not a smooth inhalation. Exhaling is fine, but inhaling is weird. It's hard to explain, but maybe almost like when you're crying hard and try to take a breath... Does that make any sense? He doesn't appear distressed so I'm going to wait to call my vet, but thought I would see if anyone has had these symptoms.

[Blinkers On]

Yes, sweating and jitterines is part of clen.. it is best given in smaller doses like 3 cc 1x a day and build gradually to avoid the sweats and shakes. AND also giving it just before exercise can really help the odd reactive horse adapt to the clen. It is much like using an inhaler as you stated.

I would lower your dose some

[dmalbone]

Ugh, just after typing this message my mother called. I had her check on him 2 hours after I put him away and gave him the meds. She said he's extremely agitated and covered in quite a bit of sweat. Is this something you would ride out if he's not coughing or e-vet worthy?

[Blinkers On]

Ride it out at this point. walk him, turn him out... exercise somehow or just watch it work it's way thru his system, it will.

[fivehorses]

see my comments in other thread.
I did not have any side effects, or rather my mare didn't.
But she was on the 5 cc's twice a day.

ALso, I was kind of interested in vets giving higher doses to get the horse to not be so heavey. My vets have given the horse a shot of dex, and then have me start on clen.
I also have been prescribed prenisolene as well.
ANyhow, I would walk him, nothing too strenuous, but to help him take the edge off.

[dmalbone]

OK... Just checked on him and he's still agitated and visibly twitching. above his eyes... His eyebrow I guess is twitching, his head is actually twitching and his mouth trembling. I called the vet and he said ventipulmin doesn't have side effects... Then he said he's having a reaction to it, then he said it sounds like he might not be getting enough!!!! Eek. Regardless he said to give him dex just in case. Now I'm terrified that thi could hurt him worse. Any ideas? I don't want to kill him.

[Gbryelle]

Ventipulmin information...is this what you are giving him?

http://www.bi-vetmedica.com/sites/default/files/ventipulmin_syrup_rp.pdf

[dmalbone]

I'm on my blckberry and can't see that page but I'm almost positive that's the same thing

[Blinkers On]

If your vet told you that, your vet is incorrect. a) read the bottle
b) your experience is telling you different and most people who have used a higher dose before a lower dose have exactly the same experience the horse is having. Just like albuterol, salbuterol ... clenbuterol makes you shake and horses will sweat. This will however pass. I would skip a dose in the am or at least back it right up to a small dose. Sometimes medication like clen is trial and error... unfortunately.... This is why I and many start small and build. 2x a day can even be a lot. depending on severity. be cautious with ALL meds. JMO

[AKB]

Our horse sweats when he is having trouble breathing. After a dose of Ventipulmin, he relaxes and stops sweating. Count your horse's respiratory rate. If it is elevated to 20 or above, I would call the vet. If you can see his ribs when he takes a breath, I would call the vet. Does he have a fever? How is his appetite and activity level? I wonder if he has pneumonia or something else going on.

An older horse down the street from us has had heaves for years. Last year, he wasn't responding to Ventipulmin or dexamethasone. The very experienced vet had the owner take him to a medicine vet for an echocardiogram. He has a bad heart valve. Now, the horse is doing well, although his long term prognosis is not good.

[fivehorses]

OMG, you sound like your vet is a ninkumpoop.
Just read the directions.
Initial dose is 0.5ml per 100 pounds.

So for a 1000 pound horse, 5cc twice a day.
If the horse is non responsive, they suggest upping the dose...BUT, only if your horse is non responsive.

It sounds like your horse responded, but I don't understand why the vet had him on a high dose to start. The directions state to start at 5cc for 3 days, and if no response to up it to10cc, and so on every 3 days until you get to 20cc twice a day, and if still no response then to discontinue.
sounds like the vet started out with the opposite...highest dose possible.
I'd put him on 5cc twice a day, if he weighs about a 1000 pounds. Not a vet, but that is what I'd do.
I don't think I'd add dex in to the mix right now either, but not a vet.

[dmalbone]

Sigh... Still up and over here with him with 5 starving kitties at home I'm sure. He got it at probably 8:30 and it still (as of 45 minutes ago) sweating and trembling. I gave him some hay to munch on to hopefully keep him relaxed. Then even though I told myself that I wouldn't give him the dex since the vet seemed to contradict himself I worried that maybe he was having an actual reaction to the Clen and that it might help. This is a horse who's allergic to banamine for pete's sake!!! If anyone's still up...Shouldn't this be working its way through his system by now? With my luck the dex I gave his 45 min ago probably made it worse. ;( I feel guilty but I think I might wait till 230 and if he's no worse then turn the lights off and head home. There's just nothing I can do for him right now.

[Gbryelle]

Label says it has a six to eight hour duration effect, so you should be well in to that by now.

I also use the ventipulmin to manage a horse I have here with severe breathing allergies, based on weather and pollen/dust. Sometimes when he has a severe attack he also has to have the dex. All done of course under vets supervision.

[dmalbone]

Well, I just got home. I went ahead and stayed until 2:30 and checked on him then. He was standing quietly in his stall. He was still damp, but I couldn't tell if it was new or old. I didn't want to go in and he looked at me like I was interrupting his sleep which was a good thing. He was still breathing a little heavily, but didn't seem to be shaking as much. Again, the lights weren't on so I couldn't see everything (outside light right outside of his stall so I could still see) but he didn't seem agitated, but still definitely not normal. Fingers crossed...

[li'l bit]

JFYI. There is a yahoo discussion group: COPD_HEAVES. You might find some helpful information in their files also. Hope your guy is doing better today.

[Kim]

Chutney broke out in a sweat after having ventipulmin. My vet said it was a side effect for some horses. It worked well for her though.

Feel free to PM me with any questions or for support. I am well versed in the scariness of COPD - she had it from the time she was 10 until she died (of colic) at 31 1/2, and we were able to keep in under control 95% of that time with management and with medication as needed.

(Hugs)

Kim