PP, now or wait until spring?

[Hampton Bay]

I did a PP on the two mares here this past spring. Both had mild colics over the winter, one from sand and one I think due to encysted strongyles. Last PP for her had been 2 years prior, but she also moved around quite a bit in there.

The 3-yo gelding had a PP two years ago and has lived in a closed herd with consistent worming since then. Filly is 18 months and has never has a PP.

I do a 4-way rotation, always doubling strongid and safeguard, and 1.5x for anthelcide. I overdose just a hair in case they spit it out or it rinses out in the water tank. We had a very long and hot summer this year, with temps consistently into the upper 90's until the past month. It was also pretty dry on my farm.

Given how tight money is right now, should I be safe to wait until spring to do a PP? Three of the horses are mine, so it's going to be $120 to PP all of them. I don't want to do Quest either, especially with the 18-mo filly.

[JB]

If you suspect issues, why wait until all the potentially encysted strongyles decide to emerge?

Your 4-way is among Strongid, Safeguard, and Anthelcide - that's 3, what's the 4th? If the Power Pack, then it's no wonder you deal with encysteds, as you're never killing all the strongyles.

If it's ivermectin as the 4th, then you're only effectively deworming for strongyles every 4th rotation - no wonder you're dealing with encysteds ;)

Double Safeguard does nothing, so don't bother. Double Strongid gets tapes and that's about all it's good for in an adult. Not a bad thing, but it's not, by far, anything broad-spectrum.

What's the total weight of the 3 horses? You can likely use liquid fenbendazole to do a PP a good deal cheaper than $120.

[Hampton Bay]

4th is ivermectin or Equimax. I do it about every other or every third worming.

The only issue I've had with encysted strongyles that I know of was the one colic last christmas. That mare was PP'd this spring and had a very very mild colic on day 4. Hence why I think she had some encysted strongyles. She's not doing any of the odd things she did last fall for the 2 months prior to the colic.

If strongid and safeguard do nothing, even in a double dose, then why are they a part of pretty much all the worming rotations?

Weights: 1300, 1000, 800. My math is based on ordering the big cattle tubes (I have the dosing gun). Not sure I want to do a liquid because the smaller two of mine, and the boarder, get next to no feed. Not too sure I could hide much liquid.

[JB]

Strongid in a double does DOES do something - tapeworms. That's it (or that's all that matters anyway, it does get a few strongyles)

As to "why are they part of a rotation"? Because too many people don't keep up with the latest on resistance issues :( Pyrantel pamoate (Strongid) and fenbendazole (Safeguard) are listed as part of a regular rotation, in single doses, on just about any catalog site you go to that has a schedule :no: There is enough research done, on enough farms in enough areas of the country, to indicate that each of those are roughly only 25-30% effective against strongyles now, in much more than 50% of the *world*

If you're already doing the big cattle tubes, I don't think you can get much/any cheaper than that.

[Hampton Bay]

But Anthelcide is still worth using in 1.5x?

If I were to start worming based on fecals (which could be difficult given how far away my vet is), at what point would I start? Assuming I do a PP in the next month anyway.

[KrazyTBMare]

No advice on when or what to do but IF you do decide to PP - go to Tractor Supply and get the Safeguard goat dewormer. You dose at 4.6mL per 100lbs for 5 days. I purchased 6 bottles for my 3 horses (1200, 1000, 1000 lbs each). All of mine, even PICKY Layla, ate it with all 46 ccs dumped on her feed. It cost about $35 +/- per horse instead of over $60.

[JB]

But Anthelcide is still worth using in 1.5x?
Yes - not broad-spectrum though, but it can be a nice followup to a PP to deal with pinworms

If I were to start worming based on fecals (which could be difficult given how far away my vet is), at what point would I start? Assuming I do a PP in the next month anyway.
Ideally you'd do the fecal at the end of a cycle. So, 4 weeks after the last dose of the PP.

If, say, you find strongyle eggs, you'd do something ivermectin-based, and then re-do the fec 2 weeks later to make sure you were getting the appropriate reduction in egg count.

Then, just starting out, you'd do another fecal at the 8 week mark to see if you need to do anything again. If clean, then you can hold off (or just do a double strongid for tapes if it's that time of year).

And you go from there - do a fec every 6-8 weeks to see if you need to do anything. After a couple of clean ones, you can go longer until the next one, and so on.

No advice on when or what to do but IF you do decide to PP - go to Tractor Supply and get the Safeguard goat dewormer. You dose at 4.6mL per 100lbs for 5 days. I purchased 6 bottles for my 3 horses (1200, 1000, 1000 lbs each). All of mine, even PICKY Layla, ate it with all 46 ccs dumped on her feed. It cost about $35 +/- per horse instead of over $60.
I think though that if she's already doing the paste cattle stuff in a tube, that's about on the same par, $$-wise, as the liquid.

[Hampton Bay]

So JB do you just not do anything but ivermectin and a PP? Plus either Equimax or Strongid for tapes.

[KrazyTBMare]

Yes - not broad-spectrum though, but it can be a nice followup to a PP to deal with pinworms

I just did this yesterday. I had PP'd about 2-3 wks ago and gave them all their Anthelcide yesterday. Today my mares manure is looser than normal. Not quite cow patties but the balls are not well formed and the manure is lighter in color (think peanut butter). I have not seen my boarders geldings manure yet (they are outside except to eat and he tends not to poop inside) but my 2 y/os manure is ever so slightly looser (he usually has very well formed balls that are darker in color) but def not what you would call loose and they are lighter in color but not as light as my mares. Is this just them reacting to the wormer or a reaction to a die off? To be honest, I did not know you should PP in addition to the other rotation and tapeworm wormers. This is my first PP and first time using anthelcide. Just curious (sorry to derail!)


I think though that if she's already doing the paste cattle stuff in a tube, that's about on the same par, $$-wise, as the liquid.

Opps! I missed that part! Yes if you have the gun already, def cost effective as well.

[JB]

So JB do you just not do anything but ivermectin and a PP? Plus either Equimax or Strongid for tapes.

I do 1.5x Anthelcide 2 weeks after a Power Pack, and then yes, Equimax (I'll never use Zimecterin Gold) twice a year, or double Strongid in place of one of those depending on what I've done with ivermectin recently, and ivermectin if needed at other times.