Need help with rescue horse diet ASAP

[LMH]

Long story, client donated a horse-the place did not care for her...now client has horse again and she is is very bad condition. All bones.

I have not been to see her yet so don't know how bad it is-but I am pretty sure it is bad.

I know putting weight on a horse is extremely poor condition can be very delicate and I am not experienced in rehabs to this level so can those with experience give a little help?

The horse is currently on 1/2 bale fescue a day, PLUS

Twice daily:

3 quarts Senior Feed
2 quarts BOSS
1 quart alfalfa pellets
1/4 cup Gro N Win

I don't know if I care for this diet-I know, pounds not quarts and what Senior-this is what I have

She will change anything.

[RiverBendPol]

I don't know the answer but it seems to me you should be splitting her feed into 4-5 small meals a day. Dumping that much grain into her at a time is not a good thing. That's over 6 quarts at one sitting...I would also soak the feed in hot water till it is really mushy, almost soupy. She'll be able to metabolize it much better. I think I'd keep hay in front of her all the time. Yikes. Others with experience please chime in!

[LMH]

I agree-the amount of food at one time did not sound good.

I was thinking of simplifying it as well..like a soaked Senior feed (higher fat) and soaked alfalfa cubes then free choice hay?

Maybe add some rice bran?

[JB]

I was thinking of simplifying it as well..like a soaked Senior feed (higher fat) and soaked alfalfa cubes then free choice hay?
Start here - mostly just hay for right now, with a little extra. Can she give a vit/min supplement, even if she will only do a relatively cheap one for now?

Maybe add some rice bran?
Later :)

If she can give alfalfa hay, that's often very good for getting safe weight on.

[LMH]

How many "quarts" of each would you do in how many feedings.

Gotta speak the language here-and quarts it is.

[FatPalomino]

If the horse has been getting 6 quarts and is all bones, I wouldn't change a thing until the vet comes out. I'd run bloodwork and a fecal for sure.

[myhorsefaith]

ack, i'm doing this right now, started october 2nd (see blog in my sig).

I had my vet out immediately after Fen got home, and had her set me up w/ a refeeding plan because I knew that even though I KNEW how to refeed a starved horse, having marching orders from someone other than the voice in my head would be easier to adhere to. Plus, she was able to check vitals, do a fecal, and just a general health inspection- which made me more comfortable knowing she knew his condition in the event he started to fail.

I will say, it was very difficult the first week, and even now that he's cleared for a little more grub, I just want to wave a wand and fix everything at once.

So, my advice is to start slow, but if you can get direct orders from an vet you respect, then do that- it can take a lot of the stress off your shoulders.

[Hip]

Long story, client donated a horse-the place did not care for her...now client has horse again and she is is very bad condition. All bones.

I have not been to see her yet so don't know how bad it is-but I am pretty sure it is bad.

I know putting weight on a horse is extremely poor condition can be very delicate and I am not experienced in rehabs to this level so can those with experience give a little help?

The horse is currently on 1/2 bale fescue a day, PLUS

Twice daily:

3 quarts Senior Feed
2 quarts BOSS
1 quart alfalfa pellets
1/4 cup Gro N Win

I don't know if I care for this diet-I know, pounds not quarts and what Senior-this is what I have

She will change anything.

As someone who has rescued many, many horses in really bad condition (like the mare you mentioned), I would give her lots of grass hay at first. Put an all-around sup on that. Get her going. My experience has been not to overload their systems at first. It seems/seemed to me (I've been doing this for decades) that as long as the horse has been thin/skinny, it may take as long to bring them back, if they were that bad in the first place. When I wormed, I started with ivermectin.

Add in the feeds a little at a time. I've read where you can give too much too quickly and it overloads the heart, all that goodness is just too much. I've known of skinny horses getting some good feed and dropping dead. :eek: The vet said the heart couldn't withstand the added stress. Took his word at that and never had problems.

If the poor horse wasn't there that long and the 'rescue' let her go downhill pretty quick, it may not be a long road back. I never soaked anything but my horses were all in the younger years, like under 18 yrs old and no horse ever had problems.

The best advice I can think of is slow and easy. The simpler the better, fancy is for later. I'm a steam rolled oats and alfalfa/grass hay fan. :yes:

[dwblover]

If she is truly all bones, then stop the grain right now. Refeeding syndrome is a fairly rare, but ugly, UGLY thing to happen. She can't have carbs or sugars right now. You can stick with the alfalfa pellets (soaked) in smaller amounts, that is good for her. Up that on a weekly basis. Keep adding hay and get her on a good vit/min mix. No grain until she has gained back some weight. Once she is at a more acceptable weight then you can slowly start adding grain (senior feeds are great) back into her diet. Also be careful with worming, it's tempting to worm them right away, but it's not a good idea. Use 1/2 dose of Ivermectin and wait a few weeks. Then the other half Ivermectin. Then you can start looking into Equimax and a Panacur Powerpac done several weeks apart. Best of luck!

[deltawave]

If the horse is tolerating the grain, I think the risk/benefit calculation supports keeping her on it, but I would definitely break it up into several meals, keep hay in front of her all the time, and make sure her teeth are in good shape.

I'm a very big fan of ration balancers, as everyone knows. :) 1/4 cup of Grow 'N Win is probably a lot of nutrients, but if it were me I'd go heavier on that and lighter on the Senior Feed, unless the horse clearly has bad teeth and is not handling the pellets OK. What I like about ration balancers is the extra essential amino acids and protein without having to feed a lot of bulk.

I know a lot of people love BOSS, but to me it seems like a lot of bulk and if the horse is otherwise getting plenty of forage, you might get more mileage from the hulled seeds or just oil. Just one way of looking at it, though--essentially a starving animal needs everything, so if the ration has what she needs, and she's eating it, maybe all she needs is some time. :)

[stoicfish]

I would phone a rescue that deals with these types of horses. They probably could give you a lot of good advice about feeding, worming, care.
http://www.fuglyblog.com/ This lady should be able to direct you to a reputable source.

[moonriverfarm]

I'm a big fan of beet pulp, warm soaked with grain added. Smells almost good enough for me to eat!

[jacksmom]

alfalfa hay is your friend.

it will not only put good weight on the mare, but if she's got issues with ulcers it will help balance her digestive tract. i'd mix in some good grass hay and just keep that and plenty of water available to her at all times (the alf will make her urinate, as it usually has more protein than most horse need and they will pass it harmlessly out that way). from there i would slowly start adding grain/suppliments.

i usually keep some alf in my loft in case anyone gets sick over the winter, i had a some bales that were aging so i decided one spring to go ahead and feed it (to my more than healthy little herd) just to clear it out, i had about 3 weeks worth. let's just say that when blankets came off they were downright pudgy. note to mom - to healthy horses alfalfa is like ice cream...

[moonriverfarm]

So...hmmmm...for hard keepers under the age of 10....will alfalfa cubes and maybe grain as secondary feed source add weight easier than a high fat feed and grass hay alone?

[Roxyllsk]

I don't have a lot experience 'refeeding' a starved horse, but don't you l think a probiotic would be a good idea ? If their gut doesn't have the right bacteria to help digest food properly, they could get an upset tummy. Maybe start off with a very very low dose and slowly increase it as their gut adjusts ?

We had a lot of luck with our 'big skinny' horse by giving free-choice hay, soaked hay cubes and hay pellets (50/50 alfalfa and timothy), and then slowly adding beet pulp, senior feed, and some oil. Started off very slowly with teeny frequent meals, then went from there. Once he was stronger, we got his teeth done and wormed him.

[Androcles]

Research done on refeeding starved horses indicates alfalfa hay is the best thing to feed initially. One of the reasons is because of the electrolyte minerals it contains; when the horse starts eating more it depletes the electrolytes from its cells and it needs to be replenished, the lack of electrolytes is what causes the refeeding problems.

[JB]

If the horse has been getting 6 quarts and is all bones, I wouldn't change a thing until the vet comes out. I'd run bloodwork and a fecal for sure.

The problem is that I think this current program was just started, so it's unknown how well the horse is/will be tolerating that much hard feed.

If the horse really is in that poor shape, you can do a lot of damage by putting on too much weight too fast, particularly when using non-forage feeds.

"nobody wants instant health" is a comment made many times by those who are looking to help make positive changes in diets. For example, you can't easily (or at all, depending on who you are) go from a burger and steak and potatoe diet to eating lots of fruits and veggies - you'll be miserable.

You can't go from an anorexic state to eating 6 300-calorie meals a day - your body will have a hissy fit.

Give the horse what is the most natural - forage. Alfalfa has huge benefits for these horses - additional amounts of minerals, higher calories, soothing to the digestive system.

[bird4416]

With the few rescues I've taken in, I started them on the best alfalfa hay I could find plus good pasture and gradually started adding in senior feed and beet pulp divided into 4 feedings a day. I added some flax and have used a probiotic and with one finicky mare, I added a Sam Adams beer in her evening meal as an appetite stimulant. (this tip came from Lori at Sunkissed Acres) It worked like a charm.

[fivehorses]

I totally agree with those who state start her back on hay, whether grass or alfalfa. No grain to start.

After a week or so, maybe start on a handful of grain a couple of times a day, then double it after a few days, and continue until you get what is recommended.

I don't know where you live, but Pouin Revolution is a good rehab grain, as is TC senior.

I would do a strongid dewormer first, maybe after she has been there a couple of weeks.

Also, no high fat grain, nothing over 8%...will give them diarhea. Do high fat grain slowly. Its not that its bad for them, but over 8% is hard on their system.

Just hay and depending on her condition, I may start with a flake 4-5 times a day just to see her response. if find, start upping it till she always has hay in front of her.

Hay adds weight best, no grain!!!! Get her gi tract use to eating again first.

[Watermark Farm]

Dr Stull at UC Davis has studied "refeeding syndrome" extensively and there is a lot of info out there to guide you. In general, it's an alfalfa-based diet split up into many tiny feedings over a 24 hours period. No grain, etc. Also consider dental condition. Here is some info: http://www.starvinghorses.com/Refeedingsyndrome.html

How the horse does depends on the body condition score for one. I work with a non profit that fosters animal control cruelty cases. We just lost a mare to refeeding syndrome yesterday, despite all the right care. She started out as a 1 on the hennecke scale and died on day 4 of refeeding. The crucial period of refeeding is typically days 3-7. Good luck.

[LMH]

Thank you for ALL the information. I have forwarded much of it to the owner.

Wow-what a lot to consider.

[Hip]

Dr Stull at UC Davis has studied "refeeding syndrome" extensively and there is a lot of info out there to guide you. In general, it's an alfalfa-based diet split up into many tiny feedings over a 24 hours period. No grain, etc. Also consider dental condition. Here is some info: http://www.starvinghorses.com/Refeedingsyndrome.html

How the horse does depends on the body condition score for one. I work with a non profit that fosters animal control cruelty cases. We just lost a mare to refeeding syndrome yesterday, despite all the right care. She started out as a 1 on the hennecke scale and died on day 4 of refeeding. The crucial period of refeeding is typically days 3-7. Good luck.

I read the refeeding site and it's interesting. It sure explains how the malnutrition affects the heart quite well. Not quite what my vet told me but this makes more sense. :yes: However, I have read of overfeeding a horse alfalfa/protein. I can't find the page but it's from a university (Indiana, maybe?) and says that a person can overfeed protein/alfalfa and it will slow a horse down, not only just being excreted in urine. Seems like the page was for a healthy horse but I was thinking that once you get your thin one going, don't overdo with the alfalfa. Anyway, here's some sites that might be of interest... http://www.bing.com/search?q=protein%2C+horses%2C+how+much+can+a+horse +have%3F&form=OSDSRC

I'll keep looking for that page.

[tBHj]

I'm no expert but IMO..

Keep her warm & in a stress free enviorment. Hay 24/7. 3-4 feedings a day of HFHF? Oil for added calories, a multi vitamin & a pro-biotic.