Question about Ration Balancers

[Nanerpus]

I have two mares, one is a pony about 850 lbs and one is a draft cross about 1100 lbs.

They have recently been switched over to a ration balancer (Triple Crown 30% Supplement) and also get first cut, great quality hay several times a day.

Now, the bag says that for horses in moderate work they should be getting 1.5 to 2 lbs of the ration balancer a day. It doesn't say to feed according to weight. I know the ration balancer should have all the vitamins/minerals they need, but shouldn't a bigger horse need more? Both are in moderate work...

Right now Pony is getting .5lbs 2x a day = 1 lb daily

Draft is getting .75 lb 2x a day = 1.5 lbs daily.

Draft is closer to the amount suggested on the bag...Pony is falling short but getting what seems appropriate for her weight (she gets too heavy easily). Should I give her 1/3 of a dose or so of Platinum Multi-Vitamin to make up for what minerals/vits she isn't getting in the full amount of ration balancer?


Hope that wasn't confusing! Thanks in advance:)

[deltawave]

I have never fed the "recommended amount" of my ration balancer (Purina) because my horses would be FAT if they got all that concentrate. Yes, I do add a general multivitamin/mineral to "balance the balancer". :) I use either Accel or Uckele's "grass formula" or whatever they call it.

[tcnhorsefeed]

Nanerpus,

The purpose of a "ration balancer" is to balance your horse's diet and make up any vitamins/minerals lacking from the forage (hay/pasture) portion of their diet. While the feeding recommendation is a little vague on our bags..you are feeding just about as you should. We would recommend for both your animals at least 1 1/2 lb a day....you mention your pony is 850 lbs..this is a little different than a 400-500lb pony...your pony is nearly horse sized by the sounds of it, so there is no need to feed less of the supplement..Feed both animals 1 1/2 lb a day.

I would NOT add vit/mineral supplements to a vit/min balancer...you can really skew the amount of vit/minerals they are getting and find you are feeding well above their requirements for certain vit/minerals.

You don't want to oversupplement.

What's really nice about the 30% is it remains low in fat, low in starches/sugars and supplies your animals the vit/minerals they need and you can do that with a small amount of feed. If someone is getting heavy, make sure to consider the hay they are getting and how much..if you can reduce it a little bit,(still giving at least 1% of their body weight in hay) reduce it or look at pasture time if they are turned out..also look at their levels of work/exercise. I would not cut back on the balancer because then they are not getting the full benefits of the supplement if they are not getting the recommendation.

[deltawave]

I'm not selling feed, so maybe I'm biased. ;) But I would respectfully state that every horse I own would be ROLLING IN FAT if I fed them the recommended amount of their ration balancer. And thank you, but I have no intention of cutting down on their hay so I can feed more concentrate! Forage is what makes them go and keeps their diet as close to natural as is possible in an unnatural environment.

I balance my ration using recommended amounts of nutrients from textbooks. It's not terribly difficult to add what is lacking using a vitamin/mineral supplement using a simple spreadsheet or calculator. There's nothing "skewed" about my program, because I pay attention and do the math.

A ration balancer is a tool like any other. If it works for your program, use it. If it doesn't, use something else. Just because the company recommends you feed 2 pounds a day doesn't mean you have to ignore the animal in front of you, and I'd be extremely leery of taking advice like that, or buying products from someone who said as much. :eek:

[jaimebaker]

I agree DW. My horses would be walking founder if I had fed the 'recommended' amounts of a ration balancer to them when i had them on it. I would feed maybe 1/2 lb a day and 1/2 ounce of a vit/mineral supp that was supposed to be fed at the rate of 1 ounce a day. I fixed my problem and stopped feeding an RB (4 of them can't have soy anyway).

[3Spots]

DW,

Why bother with the RB at all and just do Tri-Amino plus Vitamins in a handful of grain? Isn't the RB just offering protein?

jan
(debating the same issue)

[deltawave]

Protein, lysine, vitamin E, calcium, phosphorus and a bunch of other stuff. I'm not opposed to hay only + whatever-supplements-are-needed, but right now with the horses I have, this works. It's palatable, not expensive, and meets their needs. That's all I ask from my feeding program. Many other combinations could undoubtedly do the same, though. :)

[Nanerpus]

Sigh. Now I don't know what to think!:eek:

I don't want to over supplement, but I don't want to under supplement either! The horse who is on 1.5 lbs a day only gets that and almost free choice hay and looks great.

The pony who gets 1 lb a day and about 6-7 light flakes of hay a day also gets Quiessence, and I have up until today been giving her about 1/2 a serving of Platinum.

I really don't want to cut down her hay, especially going into winter. They both look GREAT but have the extreme tendency to get TOO FAT! Although, we put in an indoor and they will be working 5-6 days a week all winter so I'm not worried about the exercise slowing down, because it won't.

They both love the Triple Crown 30%, and it's so easy for me to not have to mix all sorts of supplements with a handful of grain and have the grain go bad because it takes months to go through it!

Should I just continue what I'm doing and see if over time the Pony can handle the full amount like the other horse and cut out the extra Platinum? Or cut it out now...:confused:

[Home Again Farm]

Funny, I have fed the recommended amounts of RBs for years and never had a horse too fat from them. Most companies that make RBs have feeding charts that give recommended amounts for different sizes, ages, satge of gestation or lactation, etc.

[Nanerpus]

Well my whole thought process was that the ration balancer has one recommended amount for "performance horses." While both my horses are performance horses, one is 850 lbs and one is 1100 lbs.

So, if they both get the same amount which horse is getting oversupplemented and which is getting undersupplemented? They can't possibly both need the exact same amount of protein/vitamins/minerals, that just doesn't make sense to me?

[EqTrainer]

FWIW, when we did an informal trial w/the TC ration balancer the horses got fat and edemic very quickly. I was, and still am, seriously bummed because the price is about HALF of the Progressive that I feed. But.. no fat edemic horses on the Progressive.

I have no idea what caused it.

[EqTrainer]

Well my whole thought process was that the ration balancer has one recommended amount for "performance horses." While both my horses are performance horses, one is 850 lbs and one is 1100 lbs.

So, if they both get the same amount which horse is getting oversupplemented and which is getting undersupplemented? They can't possibly both need the exact same amount of protein/vitamins/minerals, that just doesn't make sense to me?

Horses are such individuals, you could easily have one who weighed less (smaller horse) that needed more and vice versa. Individual requirements are, IME, rarely based on the size of the horse.

[tcnhorsefeed]

Nanerpus,

You are feeding both horses appropriately the way you are doing things! 1lb for the smaller pony and 1 1/2lb for the draft cross is just where they need to be....it would be fine if you fed a little more to the pony, let's say perhaps in the event that he is getting worked a little harder or a little more than usual. If your pony looks anything like he does in the picture you have, he is at a great weight! But they are both getting what they need.

[deltawave]

Argh, how can anyone (other than a sales rep for a feed company) blithely and with complete confidence say that a horse they don't know is "getting what they need"? How can anyone know this without the OP having posted an analysis of the hay, for starters? :mad: What if the hay is completely deficient in selenium, like mine? Or very, very lacking in calcium?

Unless there's a feed out there that is guaranteed to meet the nutritional needs of every horse, regardless of what else they're eating, of course. :rolleyes:

nanerpus, maybe you should check out FeedXL.com or a ration balancing program, just to make sure what you're feeding is doing the job. :)

[Daydream Believer]

FWIW, when we did an informal trial w/the TC ration balancer the horses got fat and edemic very quickly. I was, and still am, seriously bummed because the price is about HALF of the Progressive that I feed. But.. no fat edemic horses on the Progressive.

I have no idea what caused it.

Just to add to the discussion that I did have quite a few (about 40%) of my horses (25 total) get extremely fat on Progressive's RB (fed as directed on the label) as well as one unexplained laminitis (not duplicated this year on the same mare living in the same paddock on a different feed,) as well as a couple of horses that got very difficult and reactive on that feed. I never tried TC and have no intention of using a RB again. I will not feed anything with soy in it (and soy is a key ingredient in most RB's) as I obviously have a very sensitive population of horses here to soy.

I completely agree with Deltawave's last post also that there is no way to know that any feed is meeting your horses' needs without analyzing the entire diet. Forage is the key truly...the grain or concentrates should balance where the forage is lacking. You have no way of knowing that without analyzing it all.

[titan]

DW - curious which RB is working for you? I am using TC 12% sup. but have a terrible time getting it in my area. Interested in options. PM or post please.

[deltawave]

Around here we have Purina, Buckeye and Triple Crown. The feed store that's on my way home from work carries Purina and TC, the one farther away has Buckeye. So although Bonnie eats the TC feeds when she's at my trainer's barn and was on Buckeye in the past, I am currently using Purina's Enrich 30. I switch to the 12% when my hay tests higher in protein, which it hasn't the last 2 years.

I have no passionate feelings that one brand is better than another. I go with convenience and like to support my local feed store. :yes:

[titan]

Purina is probably easiest for me. Thanks.

[lalahartma1]

What about TC Lite. I'm going to try to use this as a ration balancer for the easy keeping Quarab.

http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/litefeeding.php

[deltawave]

Looks pretty similar to most of the 12% RBs. :yes:

[lalahartma1]

What about TC Lite. I'm going to try to use this as a ration balancer for the easy keeping Quarab.

http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/litefeeding.php

2# supposedly has all the nutrients the horse needs.

[deltawave]

2 pounds in addition to an adequate amount of good quality forage, assuming the horse in question is average in its needs. :)

[Hony]

I feed Buckeye grow & win. If it were my Quarab the most it would get it 1 - 1.5 lbs unless it were in full work all the time. Not sure how the others compare to it because I haven't used them but it really isn't much feed at all.
I am fortunate to have good hay as well.
My horses gleam, even the wooly ones!

[lalahartma1]

2 pounds in addition to an adequate amount of good quality forage, assuming the horse in question is average in its needs. :)

Yes, thanks for the clarification! I got my hands on some very nice hay.