way too much fun, and now a question

[MySparrow]

Over the last year the 100-acre wood behind us has been logged out, depriving us of a mysterious deep forest mazed with trails and rich with wildlife.

What is left is a new landscape that I couldn't have imagined, intimately though I thought I knew the terrain.

The loggers left behind wide clay roads, already beginning to rut and erode despite numerous mounds built crosswise on the roadbed. At the bottoms of the hills are wide soft areas, many with standing water on them.

I've been waiting for it to dry up a bit, and though I would have preferred fewer bogs, I also knew that a new cold front was headed our way threatening torrential rain. So today was the day to try driving the roads.

I checked my spares kit and made sure it was securely fastened, checked all the connections and bolts, checked the air pressure in the tires... and then a friend -- also a driver -- and I put Sparrow to the two-wheeled cart and set off.

It was way, way, way too much fun! Sparrow took to the challenge with gusto, knowing exactly how much power to throw into the collar to pull us through the mud, handling the mounds with ease (under saddle she jumps them, and she did jump a couple!).

Both friend and I decided we have GOT to do that again!

I'm planning to upgrade the cart, but here's my question: I doubt that a wood or steel wheeled cart would have made it through that deep muck. What is the sturdiest two-wheeled cart available with no-flat pneumatics? And perhaps interchangeable wood or steel wheels? And pretty good, stiff springs? And maybe a bit higher seat, but with adequate wheel width to provide stability?

Don't ask much, do I?

I'd appreciate your input!

Thanks,
Dale

[Yip]

You would probably like the one I just bought. It's an e/e cart, maybe 30 years old, heavy and strong, wood and steel, and has motorcycle tires. Mine has some type of wheels that are not spoke wheels, possibly cast steel or alum?. The spokes make you need tubes because there are 40-something *holes* in the wheel.

I know someone is making these but I can't remember who's selling them right now. If I find it in my huge # of cart sellers, I'll post the link.

Glad you had fun! A new world (like the surface of the Moon, lol) has been opened up to you!

Yip

[Yip]

Here's one that might work, but I still think you'd be better off w/o wire spoke wheels.

http://www.tripleccarts.com/html/cadillac_carts.html

Here's a pic of my wheels. The tires don't need tubes.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3494/4032398839_47184ccd07.jpg

(just for fun!)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2499/4032399047_244b6478fe.jpg

Yip

[Cartfall]

Hi Dale, welcome to my world of driving!!!

As of this time, it sounds as if you need pneumatic tires.

Russ Hardwick, maker of the Puddlejumper marathon carriage, also does an all aluminum cart that he will modify for pneumatic wheels. . A friend of mine had one made for competitive distance and it is very light, has springs for a nice ride. I can't find a photo on his web site with one that is even similar to what he made her.

There is a gal up in Wisconsin who makes a trail cart, Sue Ahonen.


http://www.ahonen.com/training.html Her web site is not all that active but you can get an idea of what is out there.

My friend I spoke of above actually had Russ build the cart, bought the wheels from Sue and then put the wheels on the cart. Does that make any sense.

I have an old e/e metal cart that I am have used for several years
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1295185584057548781tepYIC
but with the increased use for training for distance, it has taken some serious stress. You have to watch the metal carts no matter what they are made of for stress on the welds.

I am seriously considering getting the Hardwick/Ahonen combination.

If you are just wanting to bang around a little here and there, the e/e metal carts are fine with a motorcycle wheel combination as you saw in the photos above.

But getting that motorcycle wheel and tire combination is not easily done or cheap. The biggest PITA for hubby who has done 3 of these conversions--is finding the tires and rims. We have in the past charged up to 350 dollars just for the conversions--mostly for the time to find the rims and tires, run down the bearings, getting the machining done, etc. If you happen to find a cart that already converted--go for it, it is worth the money.

Yes to your questions on springs and a higher seat if you can find them. One local guy actually has a wedge on his e/e cart.

I haven't seen anyone who has purchased those no flat tires have much luck with them. The rims and wheels just tend to be too flimsy for real trail driving.

One trail buddy of mine managed to find innertubes with the greem slime in them which did give them a longer life than the "no flat" tubes. Where she found them, I have no idea.


Brush crashing is a blast in cart!!! Enjoy

[RidesAHaflinger]

Dale, I had one of the "Spirit" Ahonen carts that Sue mentioned and I beat the heck out of that thing, brush-bashing and creek-splashing. :D It was sturdy and stood up to a lot of use and abuse. I even did a couple of training-level driving trials with it. It rode comfortably and was a snap to balance. There's not a lot of room on the seat but I did carry a passenger occasionally. It had heavy-duty motorcycle wheels. I only ever experienced one flat with it and that was when I left it in the custody of Mr. Giles who started Mickey in it and probably bashed it even worse than I did. :winkgrin: Like most things, I see that the price has gone up on it. I got mine for around $500 plus shipping but that was 5 or 6 years ago. When I got my four-wheeler (also from Ahonen) I sold the cart to a friend who re-habbed it, spiffed it up and generally takes much better care of it than I did. She won the driving class at the Paso Fino Nationals last year with it!

Great to hear about you and Sparrow having such fun together!!

P.S. For some reason Sue's link to Ahonen didn't work for me. Try this one: http://www.ahonen.com/

[MySparrow]

Thanks, all! I like the look of those Ahonens!

Hate to sound ignorant, but what is an "e/e" cart?

I have that green slime in my tires -- I beat up the tires that came with the cart and replaced them at a bicycle shop, asking them for the toughest off-road tires they could provide. They're whitewalls, which adds a little class to an otherwise plebian vehicle. And they have the green slime, which sometimes oozes out when I top up the air.

I know I talk about Sparrow all the time, but Fairy Luna is also coming along. Boy, does she require educated hands! She's light but not intuitive, if you know what I mean, so the general idea of "go straight ahead" is not yet fixed in her brain. But she's willing and kind and unflappable, and I think she will enjoy the brush bashing as well.

Tal, not so much. She loves trail riding because it gives her so many opportunities to snort and duck. Butterflies are particularly shy-worthy. But she's ever such a lady on the road, and looks great put to the village cart!

Kima, Margo's mini who came here from New Mexico, is heading into his worst season: the season of falling leaves. He hates those things. I think we'll keep him driving in the paddock until the worst is over!

[RidesAHaflinger]

e/e- it's gotta be shorthand for 'easy entry'. :winkgrin:

[MySparrow]

Well duh. Brain not engaged this morning! Thanks, Karen!

[Sithly]

I borrowed a friend's Ahonen Traveler Breakdown Cart once, and I loved it! Sturdy with a great ride. You can get the Traveler with motorcycle wheels, but I think the training cart looks even sturdier.

[Thomas_1]

I'm planning to upgrade the cart, but here's my question: I doubt that a wood or steel wheeled cart would have made it through that deep muck. What is the sturdiest two-wheeled cart available with no-flat pneumatics? And perhaps interchangeable wood or steel wheels? And pretty good, stiff springs? And maybe a bit higher seat, but with adequate wheel width to provide stability?

Don't ask much, do I?

I'd appreciate your input!

Thanks,
Dale Welcome to my world of cross country driving. England is MUD, MUD, MUD oh.... and did I say MUD for all but a few days of the year when it's summer ;)

I drive on Flodden Hill and Branxton Hill which are erm.... hills.... STEEP and one is woodland with tracks. In the summer it's lovely and nice and firm but the rest of the time it's wet and boggy and squelshy and this time of year when it's the shooting season the 4 x 4's are up there making the tracks a total mess. And the logging trucks go up and make it even worse!!!

I'd be inclined to recommend that you seriously consider a purpose built marathon phase vehicle rather than pneumatic tyres though. If it's hilly and slippy you need traction and you won't necessarily get that with pneumatic tyres. Indeed they tend to ride the surface and slip and even can slide to jack-knife the carriage. I do put pneumatic tyres on my 2-wheeler for driving in my own fields this time of year. But my fields aren't horrible steep hills and huge great ruts and mud that pulls your boots off. They're o.k. for those circumstances but for what you're describing, I'm thinking purpose built marathon phase vehicle with big steel wheels and traditional moulded rubber tyre. Easy to get in and out and with a backstep for someone to help you jump out of the mud and get weight where you need it plus a lot of slatted metal to blast down with a hose pipe when you get back home.

This is one I regularly go out through the ruts and mud in and just hosed down!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/classic_carriages/driving/2wheelhdt.jpg

[MySparrow]

Thanks, all! I took advice and am now working with Susan Ahonen to put together a vehicle for us. It's very similar to the mud bug you posted, Thomas.

I do have a question, however. I have several carriages with rubbered wooden wheels that are the same width in section as the metal wheels you posted, Thomas. When I run them through mud or soft sand they SINK! If there's no real bottom to a slough you could completely bottom out the carriage. This is why I thought large-profile pneumatic tires would be better. Non?

[RidesAHaflinger]

Dale, Glad you got in touch with Susan and are working with her.

The wooden wheeled cart I had for awhile some years ago alternated between fish-tailing on top of and biting deeply into the sand which was not good at all. Those wheels were about 1" wide. I've not had a problem with the motorcycle tires here as they do glide right over the sand. And although we don't have true mud in NW Florida, we do have swamps and I've driven through some pretty mucky terrain with no problems.

I think I could use metal wheels if they were wide enough. They'd have to be more than 2" wide. The good thing about my Ahonen marathon carriage is that Sue can get metal wheels to retro-fit it if we ever compete in a venue that doesn't permit pneumatic tires at training level. Or if we ever graduate to pre-lim where pneumatic is never allowed. For the time being, I am very satisfied with my motorcycle wheels.

Hope you get exactly what you want and need!

Karen

[Cartfall]

Thomas,

The type of ground makes all the difference. Here in the great sandbox or cat box which ever you want to call it--in Florida, it is the width of those pneumatic tires that all us to drive in sugar sand. We don;t have a lot of mud, more so peat bogs or swamps and sand, sand, sand. It is less pull on my horse with the tires run slightly deflated than to have him pull the slim wheeled vehicles (either road cart of marathon carriage). The friction of the sand will tear up the wheels and literally sink 3 to 4 inches in the sand . That puts a lot of wear and tear on both vehicle and horse.


Just sharing what I know works for me.

[MySparrow]

I love Sue's metal wheels, and plan to order some when I can save up some more money! For now I'm getting the motorcycle wheels and tortion suspension with a gator platform and a bench seat. Don't think you can get much more adaptable than that!