Tell me about Bates/Wintec contourblocs...

[paintlady]

I recently purchased a gently used 2009 Wintec Pro with Contourblocs (flocked).

My "regular" saddle is an Albion Ultima GP fit to me and my horse (http://www.albionsaddlemakers.com/popups/sad-ult-gp.html). I love this saddle, but wanted a "proper" dressage saddle for shows and didn't have the funds for another Albion. I also wanted an "easy care" saddle since I'm paranoid about riding my Albion in the rain. The seat on my Albion measures 18.5" (although it's marked as an 18"). I have my stirrup leathers set at hole 10. The Ultima GP has large knee blocks, but they are more for support when needed - my leg isn't resting right up on them.

The Wintec Pro seat measures 18" (although it's marked as a 17.5"). The previous owner, who normally rides in a 17.5" said this saddle ran too large for her. I'm using my same stirrup leathers and put them on hole 7. I currently have the XW gullet plate installed. On the ground, the saddle appears to sit well-balanced on my mare. A big plus of the new Wintecs is that the wider channel seems to finally fit my flat backed Paint mare!

Here is the issue... my legs have consistent contact with the contourblocs which I'm not used to with my Albion. Is that normal??? Or, if the seat is too small, my stirrups too short, etc. I'm also feeling slighty tipped forward. I'm going to have my trainer look at it this Saturday to make sure I have the correct size gullet - although, as mentioned above, it appears to sit level on my mare. I'm wondering if the tipped forward feeling has to do more with the position this saddle puts me in. I've ridden in other dressage saddles (Albions), but none that put my leg in such a fixed position quite like the contourblocs on this Wintec.

I'm still trying to decide if I like this saddle. I've only ridden in it twice so far for about 30 minute sessions each time. I think the contourblocs can be a good thing although they will take time for me to get used to. I'm just not sure if what I'm experiencing with them is "normal."

[JackSprats Mom]

I'll be interested to see what you and your trainer think.

[paintlady]

I'll be interested to see what you and your trainer think.

I'll let you know after my lesson on Saturday.

I was really hoping to hear from others with this saddle too - 40 views and no one can tell me about their experience with contourblocs? :confused:

[butlerfamilyzoo]

I think your leg should rest against the block but not be "pushing" or bracing into them. It could very well be that you have a long thigh, you are used to letting that knee come forward a tad, this saddle is pushing your leg straight down, and your hip joints not stretching and opening yet.

Are you on a horse you can trust without stirrups for short periods of time? I would play with that, allow your leg to relax and hang, do you still tip forward? Make sure its not making you sit forward on your pubic bone, think a little of "sit on your pockets" tucking the tail bone under you some so you can really stretch that hip joint out. Also helps to think about rotating the knee in towards your saddle without gripping. If your knees are pointing out, you have the hip opening the wrong way.

I have not ridden in this saddle, the contourblock did not work for me, i actually really liked the standard block. Many have said, and i have to agree with them, the contourblock seems to fit SKINNY thighs better than an average or larger thigh. I have an average thigh and a longer thigh than most, i could not put my leg that straight without the saddle tipping me forward onto my pubic bone and hollowing my back. You may have the same issue, OR its just a matter of finding the correct relaxation in your hip/thigh joint that your previous saddle allowed you to cheat, or sat you differently that you never opened that joint.

Good luck!

[paintlady]

Thanks butlerfamilyzoo!

I'd say I have an average thigh - not skinny and not thick. My thigh measures 18" from my hip joint to center of my knee. It seems to align correctly with the contourblocs, but it is pushing into them when I ride. My Albion has huge knee rolls, but my leg isn't right up against them.

I haven't tried riding yet in this saddle without stirrups. That is a good idea. I routinely ride my mare bareback at a w/t/c, so going without stirrups is not a big deal. I'll give it a shot when I ride again on Thursday.

[NoDQhere]

Mr. NoDQhere recently got one of these saddles, primarily for riding the youngsters in and he loves it. He says he is far more impressed with it than he thought he would be. He likes the contourblocs and says he doesn't feel "trapped" by them. He does have thin "guy thighs", though ;)

[HollysHobbies]

I don't have any experience with the Wintecs or Bates, but I have several saddles with blocks similar to yours (a Luc Childeric and a Custom SP Advantage). I think the trick is this: if you find yourself GRIPPING as a result of the block somewhere...in your thigh or knee, that's NOT good. Also, if the blocks are shoving you to the point where you're experiencing discomfort...I felt it in my back b/c I have such a long leg, saddles with a block that try to straighten your knee but weren't custom for me were set at the wrong angle and shoving my leg, dislocating my seat, and straining my back.

So, no grip. No pain...then see what your trainer thinks about YOUR position in the saddle

When I had a saddlefitter out (trying different saddles this fall) she always asked RIGHT AWAY after you get on "what's your gut reaction to this saddle"--that's a good question to ask also! Good luck! I'd like to sit in a Bates myself one day...

[saultgirl]

I find that I feel tipped forward when using an extra-wide gullet, because it lowers the front of the saddle.

I love my Bates Innova.

[paintlady]

I find that I feel tipped forward when using an extra-wide gullet, because it lowers the front of the saddle.

I love my Bates Innova.

But what if you have a horse that needs the XW gullet? The XW appears to sit the saddle balanced on my mare - although I may try the W gullet to see how that fits - and whether it makes any difference in how my leg feels with the contourblocs.

[dbadaro]

i have the bates caprilli. i love it. i found the tree sizes to be a tad large. the saddle fit fine without a rider in it, but once i sat in the saddle it pushed it down a tad. even though i have the cair panels, i put a gel pad between the saddle and pad and now it fits perfect. the pommel sits just right when i am in it. does yours have the cair panels? if so, you cannot correctly tell if the saddle is fitting until you are actually in it.

this is where your trainer will be able to help you. once i put the gel pad between, everything fell into place and now i sit much more correctly and not tipped at all. major difference (for the better!)

make sure when you are sitting in it you can fit 3-4 fingers in the pommel.

good luck!

[paintlady]

i have the bates caprilli. i love it. i found the tree sizes to be a tad large. the saddle fit fine without a rider in it, but once i sat in the saddle it pushed it down a tad. even though i have the cair panels, i put a gel pad between the saddle and pad and now it fits perfect. the pommel sits just right when i am in it. does yours have the cair panels? if so, you cannot correctly tell if the saddle is fitting until you are actually in it.

this is where your trainer will be able to help you. once i put the gel pad between, everything fell into place and now i sit much more correctly and not tipped at all. major difference (for the better!)

make sure when you are sitting in it you can fit 3-4 fingers in the pommel.

good luck!

I have the FLOCKED version. It appears to be level when looking at the saddle on my mare from the ground. I can also fit 3 fingers in the pommel when sitting in it too.

By point of comparison, my Albion GP is a WIDE. I tend to find Albion's to run wider than other brands too - having been through several whos wides weren't wide enough for my mutton withered, flat backed QH/Paint mare. So, this is why I tried the XW gullet first with the Wintec.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

"IF" you feel the front may be tipping a tad lower when sitting in it, but it cant go narrower for the horse, try a front riser pad. I've got to do that for my sausage backed girl, she also happens to be ever so slightly downhill and "I" need the saddle to come up in the front a little higher to keep me rocked more on my seat bones or i like to tip just a tad forward.

Its a very inexpensive fix. Or, because you do have wool flocked panels, you can always have them custom stuffed to lift the front a tad without totally changing balance.

Its something else to play with. But try it without stirrups first and if you get an immediate NO WAY, then it may not be the fit for you. If its a "hmmm... maybe" then work out that hip joint and see if you can find a comfy spot with it.

Good Luck! :)

[Sudi's Girl]

You definitely need to get someone to help you get this saddle fitted properly. The blocks add just ONE more element that needs to be perfect or you will run into issues.

My friend got a Bates Innova with them and LOVES it. She's recently had hip problems though (which are being fixed) and she had a really hard time keeping her position with them. Her knees began to hit it wrong, and it's pushing her seat back. (Not that this wouldn't cause problems in ANY saddle - I think the blocks just made her hip problem a bit more apparent and were less forgiving of her position)

I have ridden in her saddle and personally did not like it really. I'm guessing her blocks (not sure what kind she has) weren't meant for my conformation (really long femur and NO hips) as I found it caused my knees to grip more, and put me in a chair seat.

[paintlady]

Well... I rode in the Wintec again last night. Surprisingly, I didn't find the contourblocs nearly as bad this go around. Perhaps it's just me getting used to the saddle. It is definitely a different feel from my Albion GP. I'm still going to have my trainer look at it. Unfortunately, out lesson tomorrow was cancelled - she has the swine flu :eek:.

[happyhaffiehaley]

I hope your new saddle works out!

I ride in a Bates Innova and experienced much of the same rider uncertainties as you are (although it fits the horse well). I loved sitting in the Innova off the horse, but on the horse I was uncomfortable at first. I had a hard time even posting in it for the first few rides! However, the more I rode in it, the better my position got and the more comfortable I became.

I find that the Contourblocs generally have some contact with my leg, although I do not push against them nor do I use them to grip. Rather, they help keep my leg in the correct place and remind me when my knees creep up. The feeling does take some time to get used to! But for someone like me (long thighs), it's a wonderful saddle.

Good luck and I hope your trainer recovers :)

Haley

[paintlady]

Thanks Haley. It did feel better the 3rd time around. The contourblocs do have contact with my leg, but I don't use them to grip. I was pushing against them more the first two times, but that could be that I'm used to riding with a shorter stirrup in my GP. When I dropped my feet out of the stirrups, it wasn't a problem. I'm hoping my trainer recovers from the swine flu so we can do a lesson this coming Saturday.

[drummersworld]

Hello I am new to this thread. I have a Bates Isabell 17. I am getting another saddle for me, due to the fact my 16 year old has taken my Isabell and is excelling in it. But now I have nothing for my other horse. I want a used Legacy/ryder. I can't afford another 2000+ dollar saddle, and really don't want a used one. So I am debating over a wintec Isabell, or a new wintec proII with contourblocs. My questions are.
1 The knee flaps look rather short and squared off on the pro. Is that the photos, or is it a shorter flap? (again I am used to the Isabell.)
2 depth. I had and sold a win 500 because it was too shallow, I just passed on a caprilli becuase it seemed much like a leather version of the 500. (I am used to the Isabell.)
3. I like depth so is the pro not a good match? I am intriqued with the contourbloc.
4. I like the contourbloc idea, but this may be used as a trail saddle too and is that going to be strange? I do use all my dressage saddles for trail rides.
5. What do you all think about the material on the Wintec pro II or Isabell with full seats? Do you think they grip too much for proper hip movement.

Thank you for any advice on this future purchase.

[paintlady]

drummersworld... you may wish to start your own post since you have some pretty specific questions. Unfortunately, I'm not able to answer your questions very well since this is my first Wintec. I have seen the Isabelle, but have never ridden in one. From what I understand, they do sit deeper than the Wintec 500 or Pro. I spent most of my life in the hunter world, so I'm not a huge fan of really deep seats. I like the seat on the Wintec Pro. I find the material "grippy," but not too much. I can still move around just fine. It's no more grippy than the Ultima leather on my Albion GP. I wouldn't want to trail ride with the contourblocs since they tend to keep my leg in a fixed position. I think it would get very annoying on a long trail ride.