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View Full Version : Medication/treatment at a one star



LAZ
Oct. 20, 2009, 01:51 PM
I have always operated under the zero drug tolerance policy at a FEI event.

However, this past weekend I saw a horse that was running in the one star come in with a bleeding wound. I saw the vet inject the horse where you would inject for a foot block and look to be suturing the wound. I assumed they were going to withdraw the horse in favor of getting it good and cleaned up & medicated.

However, this horse did indeed continue on Sunday.

I questioned the horse running and was told "only an FEI vet can treat the horse and therefore it must have been legal".

Now, for the record, I hate to see anyone have to withdraw a fit-to-continue horse. However, this seemed to be clearly in contradiction with the rules and I'd like a clarification if anyone has one.

mjrtango93
Oct. 20, 2009, 01:54 PM
Hmmmm I'd be interested in hearing this as well. My friend's horse got a pretty good skin flap at Foxhall on his elbow from some brush, it obviously needed to be closed, so the vet offered to sedate and suture which she would have to withdraw, or to staple with a twitch. He was sound and happy so we opted for the twitch and staples. Had we been able to suture we would have definately done that!

bornfreenowexpensive
Oct. 20, 2009, 01:55 PM
I've known horses to be put on antibiotics at an FEI event.....if it is done with the permission of the FEI vet, I think that there are some things that are allowed.

Even FEI isn't truly zero tolerance. For example, you can compete on gastro guard and on Regumate. You just have to declare that your horse is on them (and is on them for the acceptable reasons) when you arrive.


Perhaps a lower block like that...which is very temporary...is different than a full sedation (which stays in the system for some time). For example, in mjrtango's example...perhaps they couldn't block the elbow effectively so that is why full sedation would have been needed.

Hilary
Oct. 20, 2009, 02:03 PM
I learned this at the Training 3-day actually. Should a horse sustain an injury during the event, the FEI vet can treat the condition. If that means blocking the leg and giving the horse a sedative so he can be stitched, that's OK.

That was the example he used. I don't know if the horse can have a good slug of bute that evening for pain for the injury, or if he's colicking on Friday night he can get banamine if administered by the FEI vet, but for the situation you described, it's within the rules.

LAZ
Oct. 20, 2009, 02:15 PM
I learned this at the Training 3-day actually. Should a horse sustain an injury during the event, the FEI vet can treat the condition. If that means blocking the leg and giving the horse a sedative so he can be stitched, that's OK.

That was the example he used. I don't know if the horse can have a good slug of bute that evening for pain for the injury, or if he's colicking on Friday night he can get banamine if administered by the FEI vet, but for the situation you described, it's within the rules.

I do not believe that to be true--granted I have not reviewed the FEI rules for a few years, but I was up on them when I was the YR coordinator and that would certainly have required a horse to be withdrawn.

You could treat & withdraw or you could twitch & stitch. How could a drug test discern between sedatives used to treat a wound versus gain a competitive advantage?

GotSpots
Oct. 20, 2009, 02:23 PM
FEI rules specifically call out the example of the use - by the FEI vet - of a local anesthetic to treat a small wound needing suturing while remaining in competition.

The guidelines to the use of medication say "The use of a Prohibited Substance can only be authorised for treatment during an event in exceptional circumstances (GR Art 143 and VR Arts. 1006.7 & 8, and 1009.9). For example, this might include the use of a local anaesthetic to suture a small laceration."

http://www.fei.org/Rules/Veterinary/Documents/Annex%20V%20Guide%20to%20the%20use%20of%20Medicati on%20Forms.pdf

It's actually one of the places where FEI rules make more sense than USEF: say you have a horse who sliced his face superficially. If he is entered in the FEI division (CIC for example), you could have had the FEI vet put in a local and suture it and still compete, but not if he was in the USEF division.

SevenDogs
Oct. 20, 2009, 02:31 PM
I certainly hope GotSpots is correct because I hardly think it is in the best interest of the horse to force a rider to choose twitching/stapling over numbing and suturing a wound that has nothing to do with his/her ability to continue in the competition. It may be considered appropriate to some, but I think it is ridiculous (and a bit barbaric) to twitch and staple a wound.

If the FEI is going to spout off on it's "horse welfare" policies, they really should have policies that are in the best interest of the horse.

Hilary
Oct. 20, 2009, 02:48 PM
Well, I heard the stitching example come right from the FEI vet's mouth, at a briefing about what we could and could not do, so combined with GotSpot's quote, I really do think it's legal.


If you were questioning the banamine/colic issue, I said I didn't know about that, and now reading the rules it specifically says NSAIDS are not allowed.

here's the link: http://www.fei.org/Rules/Veterinary/Documents/Annex%20V%20Guide%20to%20the%20use%20of%20Medicati on%20Forms.pdf

deltawave
Oct. 20, 2009, 04:40 PM
I remember when Gwen need IV fluids at our CCI*, the vet gave her a local to put the jugular line in. The horse 2 stalls down, who had not been retired but was just tired after XC and needed fluids, had to have the line put in without a local.

FWIW. Both horses were treated by the same vet.

LAZ
Oct. 20, 2009, 09:06 PM
Hilary & GotSpots--

Thanks for the links, the FEI website is really hard for me to load, it takes forever and then crashes and I hadn't heard back from the USEF drugs people.

My last brush with this question was in 2005 when one of our horses needed sutures (he caught himself & had a wound that needed sutures). At that point you had to withdraw in order to use numbing drugs, or twitch and stitch (we withdrew). I was surprised to see a needle go into the skin & then see the horse presesented at the jog & while I wasn't going to pursue it there I was not understanding how this could be legal. This is a good rule to know!

Thanks for the help.

Lee Ann

S A McKee
Oct. 21, 2009, 08:47 AM
It's actually one of the places where FEI rules make more sense than USEF: say you have a horse who sliced his face superficially. If he is entered in the FEI division (CIC for example), you could have had the FEI vet put in a local and suture it and still compete, but not if he was in the USEF division.

USEF rules do allow a horse who received a prohibited substance for a therapeutic purpose to return to competition but only after a minimum of 24 hours have elapsed.
For eventing this does effectively mean you're out but for hunter/jumper the horse can usually continue the next day. Often, you don't even miss a class.

CookiePony
Oct. 21, 2009, 09:41 AM
I learned this at the Training 3-day actually. Should a horse sustain an injury during the event, the FEI vet can treat the condition. If that means blocking the leg and giving the horse a sedative so he can be stitched, that's OK.



But... was the FEI vet talking about FEI or the T3D? Because the T3D is under national rules.

LAZ
Oct. 22, 2009, 10:28 AM
Just a quick update--I got an email from Dr. Stephen Schumacher, the USEF head guy in drugs and he said it is allowed within the constraints of the FEI rules, sent me the link and offered to follow up with a phone call if I had any questions. I think that is outstanding customer service, I was very impressed!

http://www.fei.org/Athletes_AND_Horses/Medication_Control_AND_Antidoping/Horses/Documents/Medication%20Form%20I.pdf (http://www.fei.org/Athletes_AND_Horses/Medication_Control_AND_Antidoping/Horses/Documents/Medication%20Form%20I.pdf)

annikak
Oct. 22, 2009, 11:29 AM
Going to a CIC (slightly different I know...) we had to drive thru Chicago Traffic. My boy got hives (Always one to worry was he then)- which I had dex for, but did not use. When I went to the barn inspection the vet (who was my FEI vet in FL) said "For Gods sake! Use the drugs! Thats why we have them! It's for hives, not to cover up something else." For the record I did not use them, because I never knew what would make him change his being for the event. While we did not finish that event, just was surprised that was the reaction of the vet.