Horse show photographers, why won't they sell me their pictures?

[DancingQueen]

Vent
Bad business sense.

I've promised both the breeder of my horse and the vet who fixed her up some good jumping pictures. For the bigger part of the season we only showed in the smaller levels and I was very excited when august came around and we could step up to Level 5.

My last day of Monmouth the photographer there, Catherine Cammett, still had no pictures available from the last 2 classes, she (or at least the person in the booth) said to call her and she'd send me proofs.

I called during the following week and left a message. After a few days I still had no reply, so I sent her an e-mail asking if she had gotten my voicemail. A few days later I got a short note that she was busy at the Hamptons and I would have to wait.
I replied that it was no problem, I looked forward to seeing my pictures. A few weeks later, I e-mailed her again with a reminder and she replied that she had not forgotten. I said great, I look forward to seing the pics, I need to buy a few for the breeder, owner etc. A few more e-mails were exchanged, I'm still waiting to find out if there was any pictures.

I finally went to another show and thought, oh well, I'll just get pics from this show instead, Cammett is missing out on this action. I contacted the photographer there the Monday after the show and it's pretty much the same story. I get the runaround but no pictures.

The season is pretty much over for me until WEF so I guess I'll just have to wait until then.

I'm just annoyed that there seems to be absolutely no interest at all from the photographers to try to sell me the pictures they took. They are expensive enough but I guess Cammett and Ketchum does so well that they don't have to bother finding a few pics for me that would only bring in around $200.

At this point I almost don't want to give my money to either of them, it's been too long, but I'm upset that I still don't have any of the pictures I've promised people I'd send them.

[Kate66]

What a pain! You can't get a friend with a good camera to take some? I know it's not the same but at least you would get them.

[rideagoldenpony]

I have had such bad luck with show photographers that I finally went out and spent a lot of money to buy my own (GOOD) camera with an expensive lens. I spent a LOT of money on professional photos, and have saved myself literally thousands of dollars by buying my own setup.

Though this year I was unable to attend a number of shows where my stallion was VERY successful, and the show photographers were absolutely pathetic. One took 27 pictures of the Supreme Champion gelding, and not ONE photo of my Supreme Champion stallion who won the entire thing under two judges. :confused: :mad: I would have spent a ton of money on nice pictures, and there weren't even any taken! He waited the ENTIRE day, and missed the apex of the entire show.

Another photographer (at a show where he was also Supreme Champion under both judges) the photographer took them from the worst angle, and also stood while taking them, and so everything about them/the angle is just WRONG. It isn't rocket science to know that you need to get lower to the ground when you are photographing ponies! :mad:

I know there must be good photographers out there.... I just didn't run into a single one this year. Lame.

[asb_own_me]

Frustrating. At our shows (ASB shows) the photographers upload during sessions, usually right to their website. I feel for you - I won't do business with someone who doesn't seem to want my business, either.

[ReSomething]

I would have bought pics from the Academy series, but navigating the website was confusing and how to pay was even worse. And by the second show I attended the already long lag time to post pics turned into not posting them at all. I think it just depends on the photographer, cause ASB shows aren't immune either.

[equineartworks]

For me, I made the decision this spring to go back to B&W film. I've never been happier :lol:

There are some amazing show photographers out there, I highly recommend suggesting to show organizers that they take a visit to EPN at http://www.equinephotographers.org/ when lining up their show photographers.

[Sonesta]

Yes, it seems these days that the "official" photographers at the shows are friends of management and don't know a thing about good photography. If they actually get a usable shot it's pure luck. Most of their shots are awful. And then there is NO customer service.

NOTE TO ALL SHOW MGTMT: Here a REAL photographer for the shows. Or at the very least, go actually LOOK at the pictures on the photograher's website. No, not the select few they use for their portfolio, but the proofs they have up. That will show you whether they have a clue.

[cgray0983]

Ick. Wish I was on your coast, I would be your personal photog for a day! Black and White, Digital, Film, you name it I'll do it :) I do that for people around my area as well as for a friend who is a writer for a few different equine publications.

[Go Fish]

Yes, it seems these days that the "official" photographers at the shows are friends of management and don't know a thing about good photography. If they actually get a usable shot it's pure luck. Most of their shots are awful. And then there is NO customer service.

NOTE TO ALL SHOW MGTMT: Here a REAL photographer for the shows. Or at the very least, go actually LOOK at the pictures on the photograher's website. No, not the select few they use for their portfolio, but the proofs they have up. That will show you whether they have a clue.

OMG, yes. Don't get me started on show photographers. I could write a book. I guess my money must look funny, or something.

[KitKat987]

I can imagine that would be very frustrating! I would completely expect to be out of business if I treated customers that way. I upload pics to my website as I go. They're usually all up and sorted in appropriate galleries by Monday noon at the latest after a weekend show.

I do have on guy that is a regular at a couple of shows I do, and he drives. me. crazy.... He is literally calling me at home, one hour after the show ends, every time, and asking me why the pics aren't up yet. I want to smack him silly. I've tried to explain to him that it does take more than an hour, (more like 24) to upload 2-3000 pics, but he never quite seems to get it. Either that or he just likes to irritate me, which he is very good at.

[SuperSTB]

The lowdown on photographers... being that I co-own a photography company with dear hubby, maybe I can shed some light from our experiences.

Photography- just like equine discplines, are not equal. Just because someone can take good sports or wedding photos doesn't mean they can take good equine photos. Not only that- but a photographer MUST be familiar/knowledgable with the equine discipline they are shooting!

Many photographers also do this as a second job. Not an excuse for poor business practices but rather an expanation why you're not getting the services you deserve. Photographers have their own means and methods to post processing as in some take thousands of pics and selectively post process and others take less pics and hardly post process. Post processing can take enormous amounts of time. A less experienced photographer can literally spend weeks on post processing. As their experience and abilities grow- this time decreases.

And another consideration... storage. Gallerys are not cheap and often limited in size. In our situation- galleries are up for 18 months, then taken down & replaced. We pay quite a bit of money for this. Not all phtographers will do this- so if they have a limited space, they may be holding off on uploading new galleries until they are sure older galleries are no longer active revenue streams :) And of course galleries take time to upload- they may just not have enough time to do so. For us a wedding of about 1000 photos can about 24 hrs of uploading.

So show organizers- choose your photographers well! Make sure they can shoot the equine discipline you are organizing. Check on their customer feedback. A good photographer will enhance your particpants experiences!

[SuperSTB]

I can imagine that would be very frustrating! I would completely expect to be out of business if I treated customers that way. I upload pics to my website as I go. They're usually all up and sorted in appropriate galleries by Monday noon at the latest after a weekend show.

I do have on guy that is a regular at a couple of shows I do, and he drives. me. crazy.... He is literally calling me at home, one hour after the show ends, every time, and asking me why the pics aren't up yet. I want to smack him silly. I've tried to explain to him that it does take more than an hour, (more like 24) to upload 2-3000 pics, but he never quite seems to get it. Either that or he just likes to irritate me, which he is very good at.

Just a suggestion- but you can have business cards made up very inexpensively with your general info on the front and on the backside specific info on when and where to view the event galleries. We do this for every event and only costs us about $25 (up to $50 for weddings because we have elaborate cards printed).

People can keep these cards in their wallets, pocketbook, or post on their frig at home. They will know when pictures are ready for viewing and can also contact you later on for any additional services!

[Mimi La Rue]

Yes, it seems these days that the "official" photographers at the shows are friends of management and don't know a thing about good photography. If they actually get a usable shot it's pure luck. Most of their shots are awful. And then there is NO customer service.

NOTE TO ALL SHOW MGTMT: Here a REAL photographer for the shows. Or at the very least, go actually LOOK at the pictures on the photograher's website. No, not the select few they use for their portfolio, but the proofs they have up. That will show you whether they have a clue.

My husband is a professional photographer but shoots things on wheels (dirtbikes, atv's, mt bikes, trucks, etc) and whenever I happen to drag him to a horse show he always is in shock at the horse photographer portfolio they have on display there. Always comments on how he can do it better, but he doesn't have the patience to sit all day and watch horses go around the course. He will hardly do it for me.

[SuperSTB]

My husband is a professional photographer but shoots things on wheels (dirtbikes, atv's, mt bikes, trucks, etc) and whenever I happen to drag him to a horse show he always is in shock at the horse photographer portfolio they have on display there. Always comments on how he can do it better, but he doesn't have the patience to sit all day and watch horses go around the course. He will hardly do it for me.

Mimi- does your hubby attend "smugmug meetings"? We got to ones held in Costa Mesa area every 4-6 wks or so. Very fun, informative and good networking...

LOL- my hubby gave it a try and he does fine now but at first it was hilarious. He'd come to the barn and practice... He'd get catch someone schooling and wait until they fall out of frame or something thinking that was better. Or catching the landing over a jump because it showed "more action" he thought.

Anyway I dragged him to all sorts of equine events and made him practice- giving him pointers and such so now he can hold his own. But he doesn't do many equine shoots- weddings are far more profitable!

[oharabear]

Though this year I was unable to attend a number of shows where my stallion was VERY successful, and the show photographers were absolutely pathetic. One took 27 pictures of the Supreme Champion gelding, and not ONE photo of my Supreme Champion stallion who won the entire thing under two judges. :confused: :mad: I would have spent a ton of money on nice pictures, and there weren't even any taken! He waited the ENTIRE day, and missed the apex of the entire show..

This happened to me, too! It was my gelding's first show, and since he is also for sale, I really wanted a nice show pic or two, so I was thrilled to learn that there was going to be a photographer there.

After waiting a MONTH to see the proofs online, I was beyond disappointed to see that she had taken ONE photo of my horse. And it was a really really bad one. It was that wonky angle that is all head and shoulder and makes the horse (who actually has gorgeous conformation) look like a bobble-head. :mad:

I got even more pissed when I saw that almost everyone else at the show had between 25-30 photos to pick from. Why did mine only get one?? WTF?

[Bluehorsesjp]

The lowdown on photographers... being that I co-own a photography company with dear hubby, maybe I can shed some light from our experiences.

Photography- just like equine discplines, are not equal. Just because someone can take good sports or wedding photos doesn't mean they can take good equine photos. Not only that- but a photographer MUST be familiar/knowledgable with the equine discipline they are shooting!

Many photographers also do this as a second job. Not an excuse for poor business practices but rather an expanation why you're not getting the services you deserve. Photographers have their own means and methods to post processing as in some take thousands of pics and selectively post process and others take less pics and hardly post process. Post processing can take enormous amounts of time. A less experienced photographer can literally spend weeks on post processing. As their experience and abilities grow- this time decreases.

And another consideration... storage. Gallerys are not cheap and often limited in size. In our situation- galleries are up for 18 months, then taken down & replaced. We pay quite a bit of money for this. Not all phtographers will do this- so if they have a limited space, they may be holding off on uploading new galleries until they are sure older galleries are no longer active revenue streams :) And of course galleries take time to upload- they may just not have enough time to do so. For us a wedding of about 1000 photos can about 24 hrs of uploading.

So show organizers- choose your photographers well! Make sure they can shoot the equine discipline you are organizing. Check on their customer feedback. A good photographer will enhance your particpants experiences!

Catherine Cammett is NOT doing this as a second job. And she hires good photographers to work for her. This is her business, so if she is providing bad customer service well then she is loosing customers.

[rideagoldenpony]

After waiting a MONTH to see the proofs online, I was beyond disappointed to see that she had taken ONE photo of my horse. And it was a really really bad one. It was that wonky angle that is all head and shoulder and makes the horse (who actually has gorgeous conformation) look like a bobble-head. :mad:

I got even more pissed when I saw that almost everyone else at the show had between 25-30 photos to pick from. Why did mine only get one?? WTF?

Story of my LIFE.

I love having my own camera. I just wish I had made it to more shows to take pictures this year. I did really bad with that.

And the photographers that WERE there? All professional horse photographers - well, maybe one wasn't -- but she was one of those that thought that two photos of each horse (5 day show) was overkill!! I'm sure she's wondering why she hasn't gotten any orders! :rolleyes: The rest of them had absolutely zero excuse.

[Mimi La Rue]

Mimi- does your hubby attend "smugmug meetings"? We got to ones held in Costa Mesa area every 4-6 wks or so. Very fun, informative and good networking...

LOL- my hubby gave it a try and he does fine now but at first it was hilarious. He'd come to the barn and practice... He'd get catch someone schooling and wait until they fall out of frame or something thinking that was better. Or catching the landing over a jump because it showed "more action" he thought.

Anyway I dragged him to all sorts of equine events and made him practice- giving him pointers and such so now he can hold his own. But he doesn't do many equine shoots- weddings are far more profitable!

OMG that is exactly my husband! The horsey pictures he takes or the ideas he come with are way over the top. He always wants to do some artistic twist on them and I have to explain that we want just traditional nice shots where our horses look pretty!

My husband came down to the barn one day to take some pictures of my horse and I in the stall. We were trying for normal poses, smiling with horsey looking at camera with his ears pricked forward. I thought we got some good shots. My husband printed out one photo and handed it to me thinking it was the greatest picture ever captured. My horse was freaking yawning and it looked like he was dying or something. It was the uglist photo I have ever seen of my horse but he couldn’t understand why I hated it so much. I threw it out because it was so bad and I didn’t want to ever see it again, not even for later laughs. I made him print out the normal ones, which came out awesome in my eyes, but he thought were boring.

We did go to a couple shows to see if he could get into it, but the whole time I had to stand by him and tell him what jumps were coming up next. He couldn’t memorize the course. I would love to do show jumping shots myself but I don’t dare touch one of his cameras. I get a headache just from thinking about using it.

[Freelance]

“But he doesn't do many equine shoots- weddings are far more profitable!”
HA!!!...I learned quickly, in my photographic career that an Equestrian on their worst day is better than a Bride on her best day (No offense ladies). I prefer scorching hot summer horse park weeks to a wedding and the aftermath.

DancingQueen, I’m sorry you’re having a difficult time trying to buy something you want to pay for. I know some of the outfits I work with are often had to reach…usually because they are on the telephone with customers. I do recommend speaking with the photographer ringside prior to your trips or class. The physiological stimulation will give him or her that extra boost of concentration to fulfill your request; it does me.
Best of luck.

[SuperSTB]

“But he doesn't do many equine shoots- weddings are far more profitable!”
HA!!!...I learned quickly, in my photographic career that an Equestrian on their worst day is better than a Bride on her best day (No offense ladies). I prefer scorching hot summer horse park weeks to a wedding and the aftermath.

I'm not sure sure anymore... I've seen some pretty entertaining "horse-show-zillas" (Ridezillas?) vs. "bride-zillas". Actually usually the bride and groom are fine to deal with but just keep me away from the bridesmaids! Why do they always seem like they have a chip on their shoulder? Anyway some of the horse show parents are even MORE delightful- (note sarcasm)

We had a farm call shoot once- the stallion owner didn't even bother to groom before we showed up. I offered to help "I can help you show groom if you'd like". She all but pitched a fit like I insulted her- she instisted he looks just stunning after a once over with a soft brush. :no: