Contact and Hands

[alterhorse]

I've reached the point in my riding where I'm beginning to ride with "coordinated aids".

I have "moments of clarity" where my body, hands, legs, seat, and center, all combine independently of each other, and my horse is listening and responding.

I still am not able to maintain these moments of unison throughout my entire ride, but as I progress, these moments are becoming more common, and longer.

I am however very aware, of what parts of my body are not functioning as smoothly and efficiently as I know I need them to, in order for me to obtain my riding goals.

This brings me to the subject of contact, and hands...

Most of the time my hands seem to be my weakest aid. I am hoping that some of the advanced riders here would share their knowledge of what it feels like to ride with dexterous hands.

Where do you develop your contact from (back, shoulders, elbows)....
How would you describe your contact.
Are you arms completely relaxed.
How would you describe the feel of the bit in your hands.

When your horse is going well for you, how would you describe the weight in your hands. Is your contact light as a feather, or heavy, if you could describe your contact in terms of the weight, how much weight is it, what object could you lift that you could liken that amount of weight in your hands to.

Also, in your learning to have good hands, did you find/have/learn any exercises, visualizations, ideas or concepts, that you focused on or used, that helped you to improve your hands and your contact.

Thanks for your input. Any observations on the subject are greatly appreciated. Also, any stories about advice from trainers regarding hands and contact that have helped you would also be helpful. :)

[EqTrainer]

Good hands come from a good seat. Until your subconscious believes that you will not fall off without holding on w/your hands, your hands will always be at the mercy of your subconscious. Hope that makes sense.

I would sit on a balance ball and engage your core.. drop your shoulders down into your hips and note how much easier it is to put your hands out as if you were holding reins and have them function independently of your body.

As far as how things "feel", every horse is different at different times in the ride and in their training path. IME the worse a horse is conformed, the more weight you can count on having in the front because they usually need your help to balance. Basically, the better a horse is in balance, the less weight you will have to carry. The best built, most naturally balanced horses are often challenging to get to take the bit OUT and carry it, as they don't have to, to remain in balance and feel comfortable *to themselves*. Think of a horse at liberty, prancing around.. he doesn't need the relativity of a bit to balance himself. Well built good moving horses do this easily. So the horses innate balance and talents will dicate how he feels.

How the horse has been trained will also come into play. A lot, and I mean a lot, of people think that the horse gives to the bit as they "take contact". Meaning.. they pull and the horses head comes back. The horse is always, always falling over his front end a little bit and is never in balance, to be in balance he has to be taught and be allowed to take the bit OUT, not back. If his head is pulled back he will either be very heavy (particularly if the person who trained him also believed in riding them over tempo, or believed that rushing is the same as forward) or he will be so light that he can put his head on his chest and do as he pleased.

People develop a certain feel that they like. This is normal IMO, we are all individuals, but there are things about contact and your hands that are correct no matter what and things that aren't. A lot of people don't feel safe (back to that first paragraph) if the horse is not heavy in their hands, they don't think they can control him unless they feel him "there". Their focus is of course on the wrong place; you control a horse by controlling his back/rear end/shoulders. Personally I like my horses to be really, really actively chasing the bit and feel mentally uncomfortable if they are heavy and locked up in front of me... I would rather get them chasing it, even if it means they become unsteady, and then create a more consistent engagement/energy (thru the development of straightness and forwardness) and therefore create a more steady contact. But that's me. My working student struggles w/this.. she likes them "in her hand" and has to go to where she is uncomfortable to change that dynamic. Slowly her comfort level has changed and now she prefers hotter, more forward horses because she is no longer scared when they go forward without slamming into her hands.

Are my arms completely relaxed? Depends on the horse. If I am responsible for creating part of his balance w/my core, probably not. I am more likely to have isometric holding in my upper arms and my elbows will be tighter. As the horse comes into a better balance, I will relax that holding as much as I can.. without dropping the horse. The bit.. I don't feel the bit, other than to have the sensation, hopefully, that the horse is chasing something around the arena - could be a carrot, could be a bit, makes no difference to me . The only time I might consider that is if the horse hides from the bit, then I try to feel like I have sticks for reins and I am going to push and tease the horse out onto the end of the rein.

I really don't think good contact can be measured w/weight, how much weight, what sort of feeling.. the whole horse is involved. It's better IMO to focus on how the horses back feels, how his shoulders feel, how straight he is, how supple he is, if he is stepping thru evenly, and then observe when he is correct, how does the rein feel. What the horses head does, and what the bit does, is mostly a side effect of the rest of their body. Flexion is a factor of course but until you can ride the rest of the horse.. focusing on flexion is not really a great idea IMO. It teaches people to ride the horses head, or at least to focus on it, which again is not what you should be doing.

It may help you to check out Mary Wanless' explanations of a passive hand. You need to acheive a passive hand, IMO and IME, before you can learn to use your hands. Human beings want to do everything w/their hands, we cannot help it. Doing LESS with your hands is usually where most people need to go.. and need to learn to be able to do. Massaging, squeezing, spongeing.. aieeeeee... all gimmicks IMO to make the horse give to the bit (what else would pulling back in tiny little bits do to the horses jaw? certainly not "soften" it, it's not an avocado, it's made of flesh and bone) just lead people into instant gratification but long term disaster.

Ok, that's all I can think of now, someone else surely will have something fun to add -

[slc2]

--It sounds like you're making it awful complicated. I'm a little intrigued as to why this is important to you. Got a riding teacher who is telling you to have more contact? Reading books and sure s/he's wrong?

--Contact is a big subject on the internet bulletin boards. Usually, the tack is to insist that the less contact the better, in fact, best to remove the bit, chuck the bridle, and ride with a silk thread, and never touch that, either. The horse will respond to invisible subliminal communication in which the rider never actually moves or does anything at all.

Where do you develop your contact from (back, shoulders, elbows)....

--Contact comes from sending the horse forward to a quiet, steady hand. The back stays steady, the shoulders stay steady and relaxed, the arm is loose in the shoulder joint, and gives a little to provide give from there, not from the fingers or elbows. The energy from behind meets the hand, and is recycled and sent back to the hind quarters by half halts. The rider is in a constant 'conversation' with the horse, always making tiny adjustments, stilling himself, asking the horse what he needs next, and responding, with as much as it takes and not one bit more.

How would you describe your contact.

--On what horse, at what point in the ride, during what situation? When everything is perfect, contact is light, flowing and soft. When the horse has just gleefully decided to turn into a runaway freight train, when he's fresh, when he's strong, when he loses his balance, when he isn't bending well, it may feel a little different.

Are you arms completely relaxed.

--What does 'relaxed' mean? Not doing anything at all?

How would you describe the feel of the bit in your hands.

--Ideally, at moments of perfection, it feels like, soft, light, yet steady, confiding, in a word, wonderful, like horse and rider are...ah...dating....

When your horse is going well for you, how would you describe the weight in your hands. Is your contact light as a feather, or heavy, if you could describe your contact in terms of the weight, how much weight is it, what object could you lift that you could liken that amount of weight in your hands to.

--When it's perfect, it's perfect for that horse. I had two horses. A gigantic baby huey type with a huge chest, long neck, and a back as long as a railroad car, and little tiny hind quarters. How light do you think he feels? Not very. He's comfortable, he's balanced, he's responsive, with a fair amount of 'confidentiality' on the bit. I have had another horse, a little light dainty Billy Elliot type who was like a cat on his feet. When loose, he could hop around like an antelope. How light do you think he feels? They feel very, very different. Try to ride one likke the other, things get awful unpleasant.

--What amount of pressure you feel in your hand is right for one horse and not the other. The idea of training is that light horses take MORE connection and heavy horses take LESS connection. Through years of training, they gravitate toward a middle ground - not light behind the bit, but not heavy and relying on the reins to hold him up.

Also, in your learning to have good hands, did you find/have/learn any exercises, visualizations, ideas or concepts, that you focused on or used, that helped you to improve your hands and your contact.

--Riding lessons. Riding lessons. Feedback from a more knowledgeable person who can be your guide. Hearing, 'right, right, good!' a thousand thousand times.

[angel]

Good hands come first from the shoulders, then the elbows, then the wrists, and then the hands. For the sholders, you need to be able to allow your upper arms to hang vertically. For good elbows, you need to be able to open and close the elbow angle without changing the position of your upper arms. For good wrists, you need to be able to turn them inward or outward, forward or back, at will. Good hands are just attachements to your wrists, but a thumb pressing or just holding the rein can change the effects of the wrists, and/or the amount of tension by which the whole arm holds the contact.

[CapitolDesign]

The weight you have depends on your horse. Evelyn Susol put it best when she once said that it might be 5 pounds or it might be light enough to hold a baby bird. I like to think of it as being as light as you can be, without losing contact.

[Cowgirl]

I like that last post. Horses do seem to get lighter with training--as they start getting strong enough and learning to carry themselves, the contact can get more elastic and lighter and you have to learn how to be more elastic and lighter in turn. They can go through heavy phases too and there you have to learn not to pull. A good thing for me to think of is to BEND and release, but never to pull.

There was an image in Dressage Today that I found useful--to think of your arms as water pipe and faucet and the water can go out only one way, through your hands. The most important part of contact is the give. It sometimes helps to do uberstreichen in warmup to warmup your own arms to the give.

[InsideLeg2OutsideRein]

First and formost one needs a good seat. If you don't bounce all over the place, your chances of developing a nice contact a much better. :winkgrin: And you develop contact from the (horse's) hind end, it's your legs/driving aids that create the energy for the contact. Keep your elbows at your side, but feel like they're coming out of your back (that worked for me in being much softer, yet not giving the contact away.) How heavy that feels will vary from horse to horse and moment to moment, but you should never get into a steady heavy pulling match, always, always release (half halting applied like stutter breaking is an image that worked for me, too). And I also like to think of contact in utalitarian terms: How much contact to I need to have "throughness" -- can I do anything I want at any time. Good luck, sound like you're on the right path! :yes:

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

OP - I liked your post - we are in the same place, I think - and what an incredible feeling! I think of my back/core carrying my elbows, but everything has to be open. We also use the idea of a flowing river/water through the faucet concept.

When I "have it," - it's not as if my hands aren't there, they're just the delicate fine tuning knob. My trainer suggests thinking of placing the bit in space with your hands and having your core ask him to step under to meet that. Kind of a weighty concept to grasp physically, but once you do it, you know how it feels. Like guiding your grandmother across the street. You don't grab her, you don't force, you respectfully and gently guide her in the right direction.

So many wonderful posts - thanks! I am enjoying reading them and adding to my repetoire.

It's not, for me, as if there is no weight in my hands, but it is a light weight.

[stryder]

Good questions, OP.

I think hands should speak clearly, yet softly. When we're going well, I think I can feel the inside of her mouth, and sometimes each side feels differently from the other one. It's a tacky feeling, like I have rubber cement between my thumb and forefinger - constant contact, and connectedness - without clasping hard.

I've worked to disconnect my hands from each other. Can I comb my hair and brush my teeth at the same time? Can I write with one and eat cereal with the other?

As others have said, a key for me is keeping my upper arm vertical. Then my elbows are at my side and my thumbs are on top. When my elbows float forward, my hands tend to rotate into piano hands, or it's harder to keep my hands relatively quiet. And usually by then, of course, I'm leaning forward. So I need to sit back, raise my chin, and bring my shoulders back and down.

[AZ Native]

Really good thread ! Thanks for all the useful info and to the OP for posting this. I'm starting to figure it out !

[Eclectic Horseman]

Coming late to the party only to add a caveat.

While, yes, a horse should get somewhat lighter in the contact as his training progresses, this is because he should be shifting his balance back to his hindquarters and sitting more on his haunches. This does not really happen to any degree at all until 2nd level or above. So for those expecting a horse to be very light in the contact, too often they are riding the horse with a short neck and a hollow back and the horse is actually above the bit and on the forehand. Horses that are behind the bit are also light (or non-existent) in the contact but riders usually recognize that this is incorrect.

In order to complete the circle of the aids and for the horse to be "through" and providing energy behind, there has to be a solid steady even contact in the reins. Otherwise, the half halts will not effect the hind leg. The horse should not pull on the reins, or hang heavily like a dead weight in the contact, but the contact should be solid and steady.

[see u at x]

Good hands come from a good seat. Until your subconscious believes that you will not fall off without holding on w/your hands, your hands will always be at the mercy of your subconscious. Hope that makes sense.


This comment really hits home with me. After all these years, I'm finally feeling as though I'm achieving a better sense of balance and independence with my seat. I noticed this past weekend that I'm definitely clutching less with my hands and am using my seat more to control things, especially during upward transitions. I've never had a huge problem on really well-trained horses or on horses I trust, but with my own two, I've been more of a chicken. This past year has been a real confidence booster for me in riding different horses and making some big breakthroughs with my mares so I think that has helped my subconscious to finally tell my hands to relax.

The funny thing is that I've had people tell me me that my hands weren't bad in the first place, but I'm super critical and I know what *I* feel when I'm in the saddle. Plus, when I watch REALLY good riders, I want to emulate that softness and fluidity. I felt like I needed to be lighter with my hands and more balanced/secure in my seat, so I've really worked on it a lot and am thrilled to see the change and difference in both me and my horses. And the horses are the true judges, right?

[Tonja]

Where do you develop your contact from (back, shoulders, elbows)....
A good contact is based in a resting seat. From there, a raised rig cage, hanging shoulder, vertical upper arm, heavy, bent, pointy elbow and vertical hands that offer a following contact.

How would you describe your contact.
Contact is generally neutral. I think of the forearm, from the elbow to the hand, as part of the rein leather and belonging to the horse.

Are you arms completely relaxed.
The upper arms hangs relaxed, from 'back and down' shoulders. The forearms must be completely soft and relaxed. I think of ‘carrying’ my hands.

How would you describe the feel of the bit in your hands.
I feel the bit/hind legs in my elbows/seat.

When your horse is going well for you, how would you describe the weight in your hands. Is your contact light as a feather, or heavy, if you could describe your contact in terms of the weight, how much weight is it, what object could you lift that you could liken that amount of weight in your hands to.
The weight of the contact depends on the horse’s balance. Generally, the better balanced the horse is, the better the contact. I like contact to be somewhere around a half of a pound to a pound and a half, depending on the horse. A sustained contact of more than a couple of pounds is a red flag that signals something is seriously wrong.

Also, in your learning to have good hands, did you find/have/learn any exercises, visualizations, ideas or concepts, that you focused on or used, that helped you to improve your hands and your contact.
Some visualizations that I’ve found helpful are:
Thinking of the hands as dumb, inanimate hay hooks. They don’t clench, ‘sponge’ or ‘saw’. Ride from the elbows/seat.
Thinking of the reins as birds – don’t hold them too tight or too loose.
Think of pushing a wheelbarrow.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Tonja - I liked your comments as well. So hard to describe, but once you feel connected through your core to your horse's core...fabulous. Then it is so easy to ask them to bend around your leg, to ask them to move their shoulders, as if they are fluid, and you are in the middle, bending and directing the water flow.

Keep the comments coming!!!

[goeslikestink]

I've reached the point in my riding where I'm beginning to ride with "coordinated aids".

I have "moments of clarity" where my body, hands, legs, seat, and center, all combine independently of each other, and my horse is listening and responding.

I still am not able to maintain these moments of unison throughout my entire ride, but as I progress, these moments are becoming more common, and longer.

I am however very aware, of what parts of my body are not functioning as smoothly and efficiently as I know I need them to, in order for me to obtain my riding goals.

This brings me to the subject of contact, and hands...

Most of the time my hands seem to be my weakest aid. I am hoping that some of the advanced riders here would share their knowledge of what it feels like to ride with dexterous hands.

Where do you develop your contact from (back, shoulders, elbows)....
How would you describe your contact.
Are you arms completely relaxed.
How would you describe the feel of the bit in your hands.

When your horse is going well for you, how would you describe the weight in your hands. Is your contact light as a feather, or heavy, if you could describe your contact in terms of the weight, how much weight is it, what object could you lift that you could liken that amount of weight in your hands to.

Also, in your learning to have good hands, did you find/have/learn any exercises, visualizations, ideas or concepts, that you focused on or used, that helped you to improve your hands and your contact.

Thanks for your input. Any observations on the subject are greatly appreciated. Also, any stories about advice from trainers regarding hands and contact that have helped you would also be helpful. :)

read my helpful links pages and read all of page one and all links its all relevent to your questions
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=178116

little tip you should feel the energy you have created via your legs via the mouth and into your hands ans hands should be light

haave a look at old video just been posted vintage and gaits on dressage forum - explains it in simple terms to a loads of amry men but basic listen to the part where he explains energy from your legs and keep the hands light