Bergamon being "jogged" in western gear at Stargate in Argyle, TX...

[cgcct]

Ya, was pretty shocked to see the local mexican barn worker "jogging" him in full western tack around the property....Unbelievable. Why would you want to mess with him?? If he needs to be worked, do something else.

[eponacowgirl]

Pehaps he was enjoying a hack around the property?

[Sithly]

Oh noes, he iz ruined 4 LIFE!!!1





Pffft. :rolleyes:

[Seven-up]

Ditto on the 'so what?' Maybe that's his regular routine.

[Grataan]

Seriously? Western cooties?

and wtf is up with mentioning the barn worker's race? Would it matter if the groom was South African or West Indian?

[meupatdoes]

Was he really Mexican or are you just using "Mexican" as a catchall for "brown"? Because, that's really just delightful.

And you really think that getting casually trotted around in whatever saddle is going to negatively impact the horse? HEAVEN FORFEND he go for a relaxing hack. The only place he should be allowed to exit his box is under tack in the double amirite?

For the record when I was a working student at Lendon's one of the horses had a very good relationship with the head groom and he would ride her on a regular basis -AND DO ARENA WORK. They would WTC around and be generally adorable together. Was it classical? Did he have any real dressage training? No and no, but they had some kind of groove going on and the horse was better for having her little "Lupe rides".

[mandalea]

Again with the 'and.. ?'

I work my horse around like he's HUS - head down, reins apart, in a jog - it lets him relax. I always do it after I've worked him 'properly', and at shows, just before i go see the judge, so he's relax to go in the ring.

And so what if it was western tack ? Maybe he likes it, because it has a different feel on it ?

[indyblue]

It doesn't take much to shock you if your shocked seeing a horse jogging in western gear.Whoopidy doo.Do you think Bergamon gives a toss?Do you think his life should be restricted to the arena?Please.

[slc2]

so.....The Aryan Nation disapproves of a Warmblood horse being ridden by a 'mexican'?

This discussion isn't even worth participating in.

[Sabovee]

I regularly hack out my serious dressage horses in my western tack. OH THE HORRORS!

[Foxhound]

I used to occasionally hack my PSG schoolmistress mare out in the field in western tack. She liked it. I also used to ride her bareback with a halter and a lead. She liked that even more.
If we put her back in her double bridle and her dressage saddle, she would go back to doing all her dressage stuff.

[monstrpony]

Well, he IS in Texas, after all ... :confused:

[Velvet]

monstrpony has it right. He IS in TX.

For all those up in arms about the mention of the barn worker's race, I really do NOT think that was because the OP was being racist, it was probably just because in TX that's how many of the people refer to the barn workers. It's like a label, kind of like saying "Indian Summer" weather. People are not thinking of the race, they are using a label they are familiar with. Can it be construed as racist? Yes, but most often by non-Texans. Are some of the people who use it racist? I'm not sure that's something we'll know unless we now and meet the OP in person.

Now, picking on the fact that the OP is shocked by western gear on the horse and seeing it jog around--well that is worthy of the more derisive replies out here. :D

[egontoast]

For all those up in arms about the mention of the barn worker's race, I really do NOT think that was because the OP was being racist, it was probably just because in TX that's how many of the people refer to the barn workers


That does not mean it is not racist.

[cyriz's mom]

Stargate has finally sold and most of the horses are being auctioned off in November...including Bergamon and Nassau.

So, perhaps they are fitting him up for the sale???

[Coreene]

Get a life.

[Fantastic]

The style tack does not matter. Who cares about the equip and who was on him? Hey, at least the horse was out and getting excercised! Additionally, I think this shows the versatility of the stallion; good for him!


So, I just rode one of my dressage horses in a Dually Halter with reins and a western pad and anti-casting surcingle to hold it on (he's way too big for a bareback pad); am I a sinner?? Oh, and this is my FEI I1 horse and only the second time I'd ridden him bareback - first time with anything resembling a halter or hackamore!! We did passage, trot S/I and H/P, canter S/I, tempi changes, and pirouette's bareback and w/ halter! Needless to say, I was beyond ecstatic that we could be so connected together, sans any specific equipment!!:lol: Good boy; whata guy!!

[gettingbettereveryday]

I had the amazing good fortune to ride in Spain a few years ago, and many of the horses that could do higher level dressage movements also wore more traditional tack and rode out on the trails. They seemed so happy with their jobs.

In my opinion, the owner of the hacienda rode as good as, if not better, than the top-rated dressage riders. His seat was beautiful, and he always rode "Western-style" using just one hand on the reins. His horse was perfectly collected on a loose rein, in a snaffle bit. (Oh to ride that beautifully!)

In fact, it was seeing this that convinced me that dressage has absolute relevance for trail riders and vice versa. His horses were unflappable but with lots of "brio."

[Velvet]

Eggie, as I said, it CAN be used in a racist way, but often it is used as a daily term and no one thinks about what it means.

I believe with words it is the intent behind them that defines if it's racist or not. It's also up to the person who uses it, and the person the comment is directed towards. How do you know the OP is not of Mexican descent? We just don't know enough to throw out comments stating that the intent was to be racist. I think people are MUCH to liberal with that term. It's like when you disagree with our President on an issue you are immediately labeled racist. Or if you tried to describe how he looks to another person who was not from here and didn't know who he is. Wouldn't you have to say something about color or race in there, if you're describing his physical looks? And don't some people use their ethnicity as a badge of honor?

I just guess that I wouldn't throw the term around so easily. When you live in Texas, it's VERY different. Ask the groom what they think, and ask the OP exactly what they meant. Then we will all know how it was intended.

Done. I'm off my soap box! (I've just lived in the deepest blue and deepest red states, the farthest north, and the farthest south. I used to be shocked by some things that were said, but when I realized how the locals viewed it when they were saying it and when people were saying it about and to them, I learned to wait to judge and will not ever just throw the label of racist around.)

[Dune]

I'm with Velvet on this one, I didn't pick up anything derogatory re the "Mexican" reference, would folks mind if someone referred to you as "American". I don't know why, all of a sudden, this term sounds bad, it just refers to their country of origin.:confused: But, for this reason, I typically use the person's name or refer to them as "the gentleman" that cleans stalls or grooms for so-n-so, etc. It sounds more respectful.

[mjhco]

Ya, was pretty shocked to see the local mexican barn worker "jogging" him in full western tack around the property....Unbelievable. Why would you want to mess with him?? If he needs to be worked, do something else.

OH MY GOD! How HORRIBLE. I better get rid of my CUSTOM western saddle so my FEI horse it was made for doesn't get any strange and untreatable DISEASE from wearing it on our long trail rides. Probably better get rid of his frog mouth custom SILVER western bit as well.

[egontoast]

So my impression from the OP was different from other people's impression of the OP. I stick by my impression .

No reason to say " mexican" unless some point was intended. No one would say - the "American working student was...."

"That's how we say it in Texas" makes no difference . Lot's of questionable things were 'just how we say it in the south" after all..

.

[RougeEmpire]

Maybe that "Mexican Barn Worker" is an excellent rider and horseman? Maybe he is NOT a barn worker but in fact an Assistant Trainer??? In most stables it's very rare for "the help" to ride the horses ever. This tells me maybe this guy was not "the help". Even if he was just a barn worker he must have some serious skill to charged with hacking out a high dollar stallion, I would ASSUME he very good at riding the horse.

Before I retired my "old man" he was schooling I1. I often rode him in a *gasp* western saddle and bosal. I could in fact school him upper level moves and tests with just that. He went equally well in a double bridle, a spade bit, a snaffle and a pelham. He was what you would call " a finished horse".

Its very possible that Bergamon is being hacked out like he is make him more suitable for an amature rider. Horses for sale are LIMTED by training them for PROs only and only in one disipline. There is nothing shocking at all about a good horse being hacked up western by a skilled rider (regardless of race).

[egontoast]

well, it was "gasp" " horrors!" western !!!and not sure what the nationality of the rider had to do with it.

[asb_own_me]

Why is this even a thread?

[egontoast]

if the quality of dog farts can be a thread, anything can be a thread.

[Equibrit]

Get real you guys. "Mexican Barn Worker" is a derogatory term used to describe somebody you regard as lower down the social scale than yourself. That could be described as racist, but I don't think the person using the term is actually THAT aware of what is coming out of their mouth. They are just describing some inferior person.

[JWB]

Ever see the late great Gaylord Maynard? I don't think he ever showed his stuff in competition because he was a show performer. He rode upper level dressage in a western saddle all the time.
He'd use an English saddle if the act required it but if he was training, it was done in his western saddle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAAu2U1y9kE

Ditto on the offensive race comments. Try not to come across as a racist or bigot. People of all races can be excellent riders.

[esdressage]

Get real you guys. "Mexican Barn Worker" is a derogatory term used to describe somebody you regard as lower down the social scale than yourself. That could be described as racist, but I don't think the person using the term is actually THAT aware of what is coming out of their mouth. They are just describing some inferior person.

That's an amusing way to put it. I agree that the OP is basically clueless. I'm really glad my parents didn't raise me to view anybody as "inferior".

By the way, I'd love to jog that horse in western gear, or any gear for that matter. I'll bet he and his rider were having a great time!

[Merche2]

ARE YOU FOR REAL!!!:mad:

[Velvet]

Now wouldn't it just be interesting if the OP was Mexican??? ;)

Okay, one last comment from me, and I know Eggie will not agree (which is fine, after all these years of us hanging out here--we can agree to disagree). I honestly believe that labeling anyone as a racist is as bad as calling people other names and using other terms that are considered "racist." We throw that term around too often. It's offensive on it's own and often incorrectly used. I don't want to label people I don't know and don't understand.

Does anyone remember that picture (years ago out here) where the person in South Africa was riding with black face and many people there (of all colors) thought it was not insulting, but people on this board from the US were up in arms and claimed it was racist? All I'm saying is show a bit more tolerance for those of different backgrounds. Judging them by your own standard may not be correct for that part of the country or the world. They might find some term you use as horrible, or the way you bluntly state things as being horrifically insulting.

I think I'm finally finished. As I said, I'm agreeing to disagree here! *throwing hands up in surrender*

[Timex]

He's absolutey ruined and must immediately be sent to me! heaven forbid, a western saddle.

[Ghazzu]

Ya, was pretty shocked to see the local mexican barn worker "jogging" him in full western tack around the property....Unbelievable. Why would you want to mess with him?? If he needs to be worked, do something else.


Crack your smelling salts, you sensitive flower.
Buy the horse and you can decide what tack he wears.

But what's wrong with a little versatility?

You should get out more. Broaden your very narrow horizons.

[Velvet]

abs...I think you made the most compelling post on this thread. :D

[SillyHorse]

"Ya, was pretty shocked to see the local barn worker "jogging" him in full western tack around the property....Unbelievable. Why would you want to mess with him?? If he needs to be worked, do something else."

As you can see from the above, eliminating the word "mexican" clearly does not alter the supposed gist of the original post. So in my opinion, the OP's use of "mexican" says a lot about the OP.

Now, OP? Do you think the local barn worker snuck the horse out of its stall, tacked it up with western tack and went for a joy ride? Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, the horse's owners/trainers/managers know better than you what's right for the horse? That's certainly what I think.

[Equibrit]

Why is this even a thread?

Because there is not a whole lot keeping the OP's ears apart.

[Sacred_Petra]

Wow, if riding Bergamon in western tack is scandalizing the OP, its a good thing the OP isn't watching me train my dressage horse to track and cut cattle.

Seriously though, OP, I wouldn't go so far as to call you racist, but mentioning the guy's race makes you sound pretty concieted. A good horse is never a bad color, and neither is a good rider.

[stryder]

As Carlos Santana once said, upon attending a gala in black tie and tuxedo, "I have many native costumes."

Apparently Bergamon does, too.

[FancyFree]

As you can see from the above, eliminating the word "mexican" clearly does not alter the supposed gist of the original post. So in my opinion, the OP's use of "mexican" says a lot about the OP.


Yeah there's really no need to add "Mexican", unless of course, he was stealing the horse and you were making a report to the police. :lol:

What's the big deal about western gear though? Was he in some kind of western bit that has the OP concerned?

Weird thread whatever the case.

[SillyHorse]

Dup. sorry

[SillyHorse]

OP is a troll :rolleyes:. Sorry I fed it.

[Roan]

OP is a troll :rolleyes:. Sorry I fed it.

Yep.

Considering his/her last post was in June of last year and before that two from 2004, I'd say big time troll.

Eileen

[Velvet]

Doh! I've been duped! (Isn't the first, and won't be the last time...I'm sure. ;) )

[AZ Native]

monstrpony has it right. He IS in TX.

For all those up in arms about the mention of the barn worker's race, I really do NOT think that was because the OP was being racist, it was probably just because in TX that's how many of the people refer to the barn workers. It's like a label, kind of like saying "Indian Summer" weather. People are not thinking of the race, they are using a label they are familiar with. Can it be construed as racist? Yes, but most often by non-Texans. Are some of the people who use it racist? I'm not sure that's something we'll know unless we now and meet the OP in person.

Now, picking on the fact that the OP is shocked by western gear on the horse and seeing it jog around--well that is worthy of the more derisive replies out here. :D

Agree on ALL counts. I'm from the border town of Tucson and my sister in law is a Mexican from Mexico. Would people be offended if the OP said he was being ridden by a Cuban, Irishman, Italian, etc. ?
I get so sick of our PC culture that really stifles free speech.

I trail ride my TK out in a western saddle and his dressage bridle with snaffle bit. Who cares ? Use the saddle or tack appropriate for the job.

[fiona]

Who or what is Bergamon?

[AZ Native]

Wow, if riding Bergamon in western tack is scandalizing the OP, its a good thing the OP isn't watching me train my dressage horse to track and cut cattle.

.

:D
Very cool and the horses love it , no ?
I live next to a cattle ranch and help them from time to time .In fact getting out of here in a minute to go do that.

[Lora]

Who or what is Bergamon?

That was what I was wondering - I am supposed to know this horse?

[Mach Two]

I ride my retired event horse in a Wade tree western saddle, with a bosal and horsehair mecate, and will put a spade bit on him when I have enough time at home to play with him more. He is a well bred TB, won flat and steeplechase stakes races.
When I was still eventing him, I also used him to pony other horses, and he moved cattle when I needed him to. And HORRORS! I also swung a rope on him and dragged branches and logs on him. Hope no one finds out I'm Irish, English, and German.

Whoever the horse the OP mentioned is (sorry, I don' follow dressage) I'll bet he loves his rides and his sometimes rider. Hooray for the owner/trainer for letting the horse be a HORSE.

[dilligaff2]

Is this Bergamon?

[suze]

And it's your business he's being jogged western because??? Ditto on the racist slur.

[Mach Two]

No, silly, that man holding him is a white, line dancing truck driver.:lol:

[indyblue]

Is this Bergamon?

Whats that gay,american,white guy doing with a woman? And why in gods name is his western horse wearing a dressage bridle? OMG!!!!!!!! Shocked and amazed. Cowboy Comes Back.Is it porn?

[Mach Two]

I wasn't going to mention his preferences towards the Village People team, because that's not politically correct. :winkgrin:

[LD1129]

He is a beautiful Hanoverian Breeding stallion.

http://www.stargatesporthorses.com/_stallions/stallion_list/stallion004.asp

Produces some real cute babies, we have one at the farm a 2007 gelding. Also sire of Bugatti Hilltop one of Chris Hickeys mounts.

Who or what is Bergamon?

[cutemudhorse]

Fantasic ---

Excellent post! Glad you enjoyed your horse. They don't care what they wear as long as it fits. Or what we wear, as far as that goes! I don't think the afore mentioned stallion cared about the color of his rider, but I just assumed the OP wanted to stress a point that he was not in his regular clothes nor with a traditional dressage trained rider. As far as we know. . . . :lol:

Oh no wonder it was so stupid!

[Bethe Mounce]

I wonder who bought Stargate. From my recollection, that lovely venue has been on the market for quite a while. Maybe a horse person bought it?

[dressurpferd01]

Its going to turn into a cutting horse facility. :(

[Long Spot]

He is a beautiful Hanoverian Breeding stallion.

http://www.stargatesporthorses.com/_stallions/stallion_list/stallion004.asp

Produces some real cute babies, we have one at the farm a 2007 gelding. Also sire of Bugatti Hilltop one of Chris Hickeys mounts.


Ok, but you don't ride them western do you? That should be a crime. :lol::lol:

[nhwr]

Is there some sort of infectious lameness epidemic?

Who cares that the horse was in western tack?

And if the OP had said "was pretty shocked to see the young female barn worker "jogging" him" or was pretty shocked to see the local german barn worker "jogging" him" would that have been sexist, racist or derogatory?

why is it derogatory to be identified as a mexican barn worker? Is that something to be ashamed of? :rolleyes:

[horsegalriding]

This is a very funny thread!! The people running Stargate for the last 3 years are western riders, and it's being sold to cutting horse people.

[mjhco]

Hey, at least the cutters and reiners and barrel racers earn REAL MONEY and other prizes at their shows.

[Grataan]

Is this Bergamon?L O L

I'll take him if he comes with that fine looking cowboy. (SHHHHH Dr Mr G is in the next room, don't tell)


I, too, feel stupid for having fed the troll.

But then, horror of horrors, I have successfully converted my EP horse to a WP horse so clearly I've got cooties for brains.

[slc2]

It's possible the agenda is actually with the new(ish) staff at Stargate, and in posting this the OP is attempting to make them look bad. cgcct is a longstanding and occasionally used login for someone who likes to stir it up.

[Velvet]

slc, you are too late to this party. You might have wanted to read the rest of the string first (or simply the post before yours about the person being a troll). It might have saved you from looking like the person who has come to the party after the band and dancers have all left the room. :lol:

[slc2]

What, and give up an opportunity to have you insult me?

[PennyChrome]

Wow, y'all are nasty.

[Sacred_Petra]

:D
Very cool and the horses love it , no ?
I live next to a cattle ranch and help them from time to time .In fact getting out of here in a minute to go do that.

They do love it! It really helps them get off their front end too. Mine get so focused on catching the cow, they forget they're sitting back on their haunches and collecting for the rollback turns. I'm a little jealous of you right now, I don't have access to cows until next week. :winkgrin:

[Ange]

So, calling a Mexican a "Mexican" is racist? Is there a more "correct" term for Mexican these days? "Immigrant"? "Brown skinned"? "Friggin-awesome horse hands who I rely on daily to make my horses and my life easier" just seems to cumbersome for a title. Or because they aren't American, am I required to call them all by their first name when I'm referring to all of them collectively as a group?

[edit]

Heck, the barn-workers-of-other-nationality in our barn call me "Bonito Blanco Heffe." Should I be offended? Maybe not, they aren't calling me "American." Now if they dared to call me "American," I'd just have to call them racist and fire the whole lot.

[slc2]

It's adorable what your staff calls you, but irrelevant.

The correct term 'these days' is to avoid referring to someone being 'mexican' or not, or anything else, unless it is actually relevant. Otherwise it is uneccesary, rude and open to interpretation.

First of all, I seriously doubt the OP knows whether the rider is Mexican at all. So, she's assuming the person she saw is 'mexican'. To assume what country someone comes from based on what they're doing at the moment, or their skin or hair color, is in fact, a fairly typical leap and if not racism per se, is a very fundamental and basic part of it. It is different from other references because of the negative connotations most people apply.

When I was 5, I was waiting to go into a fairly nice restaurant in Texas with my family. The maitre d' came over and said, 'You can't bring that kid in here'. My father was Irish and Welsh, tracing back to the Kennedy's and William Henry Harrison. My mother's family was French and Italian. I had dark brown hair and tanned easily. My twin brother was blond, fair skinned and burned easily. My sister had light red hair and green eyes and freckles and had skin the color of buttermilk.

A person riding a horse could be staff, but could also be a guest of the management or owner or staff, a breeder, a boarder, someone trying out Bergamon before the auction, or a previous owner or breeder seeing an old friend again. Quite a few people from South America buy warmblood horses in America. A buyer might want to be sure his new horse will accept a Western saddle, since the horse might be exercised in such tack. He could be staff, or he could be the son of the Ambassador to the United States, taking a break from studies at Yale.

Further, the saddle might be used because the horse's back is tired from breeding. A different saddle can help that.

The use of the word, 'mexican', lower case, is in fact, used to imply something, an ethnic slur. If one wants to indicate a person's country, one uses a capital 'M', 'Mexican'. 'mexican' has a different meaning. And in fact, one doesn't in polite society, refer to someone as 'Mexican' or 'mexican', or anywhere else, unless one is acquainted with the person and knows that they are in fact, from Mexico or anywhere else.

If one is interested in being more polite or respectful, or at least in sounding less ignorant, one refers to the person as 'Mr. Gonzales, from Guadalahara in Mexico', 'Stargate's staff', 'Stargate's rider', 'I'm not sure who that was, but he was riding the horse' or the like. 'Hispanic' or 'Latino' is more acceptable in most circles, than 'mexican'.

But even then it is questionable why it is relevant to disclose at all in 99% of conversations. It indicates one thinks it is relevant where it is not relevant. Saying 'it is just a description' or 'painting a picture' is an excuse and nothing more.

In fact, if one wants to avoid looking rude, biased and ignorant, one says, 'Gee, I saw Bergamon being ridden in western tack, do any of you ride your dressage horses in western tack?'.

'mexican' is used deliberately to suggest 'dumb laborer', etc. And yes, actually, it is used very casually in some parts of the US, and if called into question, the response is guaranteed to include some pretty astounding rationalizations, in which, unlike more openly racist statements, it is often quite successful at taking refuge.

The purpose in making the statement was to suggest, without any pushback, that Stargate doesn't know how to deal with its livestock, or has less qualified people riding them. To believe that, you have to assume that a 'mexican' rider would naturally be less skilled, that detail was included to build the impression of incorrectness.

And that's in fact 'racism', or an 'ethnic slur'. To even comment on it in the original tone also indicates that riding a dressage horse in a western saddle is 'wrong' or 'bad'.

[Equibrit]

Who cares ?

[slc2]

Successful people with manners.

[jumpytoo]

All of mine go in whatever tack gets put on.. and incredibly even go "on the trail" occasionally. I dn't care for the singled out race thing.. but if I had my druthers I would only have Irish or English groomsmen, preferably ones that look good in kilts.
and while I am thinking of charming Irish men.. BIG gratz to Oliver Galligan, first FEI reiner representing Ireland and qualified for WEG. GO IRISH !

[SillyHorse]

Successful people with manners.
:yes:

And :yes::yes: to your post above that, too.

[mbm]

.......but...... Mexican's are *proud* to be Mexican..... just like some of us are proud to be american etc... it istn dirty to use a national descriptor.

(and btw: my Mexican brother in law agrees)

[Mach Two]

I


'mexican' is used deliberately to suggest 'dumb laborer', etc. And yes, actually, it is used very casually in some parts of the US, and if called into question, the response is guaranteed to include some pretty astounding rationalizations, in which, unlike more openly racist statements, it is often quite successful at taking refuge.

The purpose in making the statement was to suggest, without any pushback, that Stargate doesn't know how to deal with its livestock, or has less qualified people riding them. To believe that, you have to assume that a 'mexican' rider would naturally be less skilled, that detail was included to build the impression of incorrectness.

And that's in fact 'racism', or an 'ethnic slur'. To even comment on it in the original tone also indicates that riding a dressage horse in a western saddle is 'wrong' or 'bad'.

I agree completely...and my first impression was that perhaps the OP was a disgruntled former staffer....or a really over-privileged snob.

And was it necessary to be nasty to slc2 because she was not waiting at her keyboard for this post? The OP deserves the ration (he? she? heshe?) everyone is dishing, not the folks who are sticking up for the fellow who was jogging the horse.

[mbm]

ok, i have to ask - have any of you that think "Mexican" is a slur actually talked to one and asked them what they think of being called a "Mexican"?

I used to think just as many of you - i would cringe each time i heard the word "Mexican" , then i started *talking* to them..... and my ideas changed.

and, honestly - i think most people (around here?) would be surprised to see a Mexican riding a high priced horse - it just isn't what we are used to seeing.... especially at a dressage barn. This is not a slur on the guy, but probably more a slur on us....

[Velvet]

Latest count is 691.


:lol: I just couldn't help myself from making a few old timers out here happy. ;)

[Home Again Farm]

Since when is Mexico not in America? This entire thread is ridiculous.

[Mach Two]

mbm, I was raised among Mexican kids, went to school with them, worked along side them picking and grading peaches as a kid in Central CA, and have been around Mexican folks my whole life, most in farming or ranching or horse related situations and you are so right, it is not a slur in the right context.

so I'll pose my own question...how many read the OP's post and thought that he or she intended a slur? My answer is, the comment towards the rider, and towards the tack was intended as a slur.

[piaffequeen]

Hey- I showed my 25 yr old ex-preliminary eventer in a western saddle at a local dressage show (granted it was HC) but I got a 72%. Reason-didn't have a dressage saddle for him. I hack him out in a western saddle. So what if its a western saddle.

Its just amazing sometimes how snobby the english world can be sometimes to other disciplines and I have ridden both western and english!:no:

[Mach Two]

Since when is Mexico not in America? This entire thread is ridiculous.

The US and Canada are in North America, Mexico and the rest of the countries south of that border are in South America. "American" usually refers to someone from the United States (ie United States of America) :winkgrin:

[mbm]

mach two -

i have no idea what the OP meant. i was commenting more on how other folks have responded to the OP.

[Ghazzu]

The US and Canada are in North America, Mexico and the rest of the countries south of that border are in South America. "American" usually refers to someone from the United States (ie United States of America) :winkgrin:

You might want to ask for your money back from wherever you purchased *your* map of North America... (http://www.mapsofworld.com/north-america/)

[Mach Two]

Well, by golly you are RIGHT! I did not look before I posted, just assumed by default. I'll go wash the egg off my face right away. Thanks for the link!

But the meaning stays the same: "American" still refers to people from the United States of America.
Canadians are from the Canadian States, Mexicans (no matter what the skin color) are from the States of Mexico

[Velvet]

And here I thought Home Again was being facetious.

Continent-wise, Mexico is part of the North American continent. Which would mean that they are north americans, by location, just as we are, and just as Canadians are.

[HighFlyinBey++]

The US and Canada are in North America, Mexico and the rest of the countries south of that border are in South America. "American" usually refers to someone from the United States (ie United States of America) :winkgrin:

My geographer's heart sobs for those victimized by No Child Left Behind :no: I am so disheartened by what my generation has done to its children.

Ghazzu, thanks for posting the map link.

[Velvet]

It's also just "Mexico" for the country name, not "States of Mexico." ;)

I had no idea the no child left behind initiative was creating this level of geographic ignorance. :D

Reminds me of "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead."

Rosencrantz: I don't believe in it anyway.
Guildenstern: What?
Rosencrantz: England.
Guildenstern: Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?

[slc2]

"Mexico is in America"

I think this is getting a little bit embarrassing. This is just window dressing.

Check your map.

North America is a continent containing several countries. South America is a continent and also contains countries.

America, on the other hand, is a country, and synonymous with 'United States' or 'United States of America". Countries and continents are not the same things.

And no. Mexico is not in America. Countries are not like set theory diagrams. They are separate. Mexico is a separate country from America. To even suggest "Mexico is in America" is ridiculous.

"Mexicans are proud"

Some are. Some aren't. Generalizing about people is not a good idea. Some people from Mexico or with Mexican origin, are really into their heritage and proud, and some aren't.

I think people like to be called by their actual name or whatever they prefer. Some people go by nick names, some don't. Some go by patronymics. When introduced to my friend's Mexican grandmother, I used her married name, and she said, 'Please call me Nana'. So I did.

A good way to get along with people is to accord them individuality instead of lumping them into groups, and to recognize and respect diversity without acting silly about it. All people appreciate being given an individual identity and some respect. No one will appreciate thinly veiled ethnicism or racism, even if they are too well raised to comment upon it. Besides, the person on the receiving end of the prejudice may not be who you think it is. The finest people I know don't waste much time making sure they are easily identifiable to idiots.

And people have feelings, 'even' the person working in the lower paying job at the stable.

[Home Again Farm]

The US and Canada are in North America, Mexico and the rest of the countries south of that border are in South America. "American" usually refers to someone from the United States (ie United States of America) :winkgrin:

IMO "American" can refer to anyone from N or S or Central America. I think our Canadian friends often bristle at a narrow definition of "American." IMO it is way too narrow, FWIW. Which is not much. No geography lessons necessary.

[HighFlyinBey++]

I had no idea the no child left behind initiative was creating this level of geographic ignorance. :D

I'd rather blame NCLB than believe that the plot from "Idiocracy" is slowly coming to fruition :lol:

To keep on topic: Who cares what tack a horse wears?? I turned a rental trail horse into a low level dressage horse & even led trails in English tack. My current green-for-dressage horse was shown hunter on the flat, WP & saddleseat. He's currently working on being a bareback trail horse & filling in the gaps in dressage basics.

I still kick myself for not buying the western saddle we used in our first show. That thing was comfy. Oh well!

[Mach Two]

It's also just "Mexico" for the country name, not "States of Mexico." ;)

I had no idea the no child left behind initiative was creating this level of geographic ignorance. :D

Reminds me of "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead."

Rosencrantz: I don't believe in it anyway.
Guildenstern: What?
Rosencrantz: England.
Guildenstern: Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?

Wow...I never said "States of Mexico" was what the country was called, but hoped not to have to type out that Mexico does consist of states, just like the United States of America consists of states. And many people from the states in Mexico have a certain attachment to those states, just as those of us from the US have to our own states. MY Mexican born Mexican friends, when asked where they are "from" say "Sonora" or "Jalisco" or "Coahuila", not "Mexico"

And I went through school and graduated with good grades LONG before "no child left behind" was in effect, thank you.
It would be unfair for someone of my IQ to have a spitting match with someone who owns acreage on the moon. :no:

[Mach Two]

My geographer's heart sobs for those victimized by No Child Left Behind :no: I am so disheartened by what my generation has done to its children.

Ghazzu, thanks for posting the map link.

Quick, without looking at a map, tell me the names of 3 Mexican states.

How rude. I was an adult making a good living in the world long before that ridiculous "Left Behind" program existed.

[Ghazzu]

Oh, Dear.
I simply *cannot* conjure a picture of our Velvet *spitting*! :D:D

[Coreene]

But ya biffed geography. ;)

[Velvet]

ghazzu, you know it would be kind of difficult, wouldn't it? I mean, let's assume that it's not just that I own a lunar acre, but rather that I live on the moon (on my acre). Hmm...with the lack of atmosphere on the moon, I'd have to say I don't know that I could be doing much spitting. ;) Hey, but if I could, it sure would travel far, wouldn't it? :lol:

[HighFlyinBey++]

But ya biffed geography. ;)

Aguascalientes
Baja California
Baja California Sur
Campeche
Chiapas
Chihuahua

I confess I did check Wiki: for proper spelling.

My apologies to Mach Two for assuming you were a product of today's educational system. An error of continental proportions isn't something I usually see in older adults outside the Jay Leno show.

[Mach Two]

But ya biffed geography. ;)

Naw, I just didn't recall,without glancing at a map, sitting here 35 years later, that Mexico is part of North America, not South America. I passed Geography, 35 years ago. And I can still name a bunch of states in Mexico. ;)

[Mach Two]

Aguascalientes
Baja California
Baja California Sur
Campeche
Chiapas
Chihuahua

I confess I did check Wiki: for proper spelling.

My apologies to Mach Two for assuming you were a product of today's educational system. An error of continental proportions isn't something I usually see in older adults outside the Jay Leno show.
I know you think that's FUNNY, but it's just rude.

[Equibrit]

Actually - it's neither.

[MistyBlue]

So is Central America the unforgotten one? There's a whole 'nother America folks. :winkgrin:

Boy, not read the dressage forum for a while and one misses a lot.
Mexico has moved.
Slc2 is a Kennedy.
One cannot ride a dressage horse in western tack.


The mind boggles.

[HighFlyinBey++]

I know you think that's FUNNY, but it's just rude.

No, I was quite serious. I don't normally see geographic mistakes of that proportion coming from people my age or older. I really did think you were much younger.

[Ajierene]

mmm...Geography.

Let's see...when I was growing up, there was a 'North America' continent and a 'South America' continent. The others were Europe, Australia, Africa, Asia and Antarctica.

Talking recently with some people who live in countries on the other side of the Atlantic and are much more recently out of school state that there are five continents - Eurasia, America, Africa, Oceania and Antarctica.

So, this whole 'who lives where' is all relative. Getting into heated debates about geography and who calls themselves what and why is really a philosophical debate.

[Ajierene]

First of all, I seriously doubt the OP knows whether the rider is Mexican at all.

While it is true that a lot of people cannot differentiate people outside of their own race (ie and African has great difficulty distinguishing between a German and Irish person and a European has great difficulty distinguishing between a Kenyan and Nigerian), this is not always the case.

You can seriously doubt that the original poster can tell the difference between a Mexian and someone else from a Hispanic country, but I know a lot of Texans and Californians that know the difference (probably New Mexicans also, but I only know one New Mexican). Also, after spending a lot of time with people who are direct immigrants from Central and South American countries (yeah, when I was going to school, it was alright to call Mexico to Panama 'Central America'), I can tell the difference between a Mexican, Puerto Rican, Honduran and 'other' (if they are not from these countries, I start to get a bit hazy).

I do make mistakes, but being of European decent, I also make mistakes between someone from Poland and Russia (though never from Ireland or one of these two countries).

Also, you mentioned that using the lower case 'm', compared to the upper case 'M' in the word 'Mexican' is due to a derogatory intent. I cannot agree, considering often on these boards I rarely see the word 'I' capitalized, or any other proper noun that does not start a sentence. This lack of capitalization can easily be attributed to grammatical laziness.

[Kyzteke]

What the hell does any of this have to do with dressage?

[Pony Fixer]

My Nana grew up in Germany--and moved here (US) in the late 1960s when she was in her early 50s. She always referred to here as "the States". Most people from other countries (outside the US) refer to here as the US or the States. When I started grammar school she used to tell me her irritation at the convention that people who grew up in the US had of calling it "America". She thought it was pretty egotistical and petulant. It's one of those little things I have always remembered, and I also always call here the US or the States (although I don't get irritated by those that don't--I'm guessing most people don't even think about how confusing that could be to others who live in other parts of "America").

So, in short, I think the whole "America" thing could totally be a semantics issue, and not a geography issue, depending on where you grew up.

[2WBs1TB]

Naw, I just didn't recall,without glancing at a map, sitting here 35 years later, that Mexico is part of North America, not South America. I passed Geography, 35 years ago. And I can still name a bunch of states in Mexico. ;)

Uh, try again. It doesn't change the fact that you're off by an entire hemisphere. :rolleyes:

[Coreene]

And I can still name a bunch of states in Mexico. ;)I can list of al the provinces in the Netherlands, but really it's not something, like Mexican states, that I think anyone outside of that country would give a hoot about. Then again, it's kind of like walking out of the public restroom with your skirt tucked into your knickers. Least said, soonest sewn.

[slc2]

"that I think anyone outside of that country would give a hoot about"

The trick to getting along with people is finding a way to give a hoot about things like that.

Actually I've found every single state of Mexico is very different and all are equally fascinating. When people from Mexico talk to a countryman, it seems to me they first identify what state they're from, so I think state is important. I can sit for hours and learn about the differences in history, culture, and well, especially cuisine. No end to it. I had the very good fortune to work with and learn from someone from Chiappas, but know little about the other states.

We better wise up, is all I can say. Mexico is going to be very hot on our tail for the Olympics and the worlds in the very near future. Lots of wonderful horses, lots of great riders - and plenty of good food!

[egontoast]

So, if I am following this, it was not a Mexican jogging the stallyon in western tack after all but our own well tanned, svelt and grecian formulaed slick who we now learn after all these years is geez Louise!DIRECKLY related to the Kennedys !!:eek: We oughta show more respecck!

BTW,I have several horses that are DIreckly related to the Godolphin Arabian.:lol:

[Mach Two]

Uh, try again. It doesn't change the fact that you're off by an entire hemisphere. :rolleyes:

"South America" actually begins in the northern hemisphere. (and I don't feel a need to roll my eyes)

Sheesh, folks, it's kind of like a pack of dogs on attack around here. I'm going back to a subject line that does not have to be so nasty.

[chaltagor]

ok, i have to ask - have any of you that think "Mexican" is a slur actually talked to one and asked them what they think of being called a "Mexican"?

Why would anyone do that? They're Mexican. :dead:

[chaltagor]

When people from Mexico talk to a countryman, it seems to me they first identify what state they're from, so I think state is important.

Yes, hmmmm, you're like the Mexican Jane Goodall. More stories about your interpretation of the natives' behavior, it's enthralling.

[egontoast]

According to slc, she can relate because she tans well.

[Velvet]

So is Central America the unforgotten one? There's a whole 'nother America folks. :winkgrin:

Boy, not read the dressage forum for a while and one misses a lot.
Mexico has moved.
Slc2 is a Kennedy.
One cannot ride a dressage horse in western tack.


The mind boggles.

Misty, you surpassed my post totals by 5,000 and you think YOU have missed a lot out here? :eek: I'm wondering what else I've missed. Did someone out here discover the meaning to 42 yet?

[Zevida]

Mexicans (no matter what the skin color) are from the States of Mexico

It's also just "Mexico" for the country name, not "States of Mexico." ;)

Wow...I never said "States of Mexico" was what the country was called,

Don't apologize Mach Two, you are absolutely correct. The name of the country is Estados Unidos Mexicanos, or, United Mexican States. We just call it Mexico for short, like the United States of America is called the US or America for short.

[meupatdoes]

The US and Canada are in North America, Mexico and the rest of the countries south of that border are in South America. "American" usually refers to someone from the United States (ie United States of America) :winkgrin:

Usually only by members of the United States who don't realize how arrogant it is to appropriate a general name as if it only applies to one subpart, and generally don't care their use of the word offends non-USAmericans. Afterall, if a USAmerican doesn't think it's obnoxious, who is some Mexican, Guatamalan or Canadian to say, "Um...you're not the only Americans, you know?"

Non USAmericans DO find the practice obnoxious, as eloquently depicted by the work of Alfredo Jaar, a Chilean born artist who created "This is Not America" (A Logo for America) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-adpTvjNOk).

Additional info here. (http://www.translocal-practices.net/?p=239)

[Moderator 1]

As this thread is more focused on a discussion of race and geography than horses, we're closing it.

Thanks,
Mod 1