If you use or buy LUSH products -check this out [Archive]

nicbarker

Oct. 9, 2009, 04:36 AM

I'm emailing them - customerservice@lush.co.uk

I was about to place an order with them but not any more.

Edited to add text of my email:

Dear Lush,

It was with sadness that I read about your decision to pledge money to the HSA.

I used to regularly buy Lush products, but will not be doing so in future. How very arrogant and misinformed of you to make this statement.

"So they have had to continue to go out week after week, collecting evidence and filming the hunts. They tell us that as long as the Law is not enforced through the courts, they will be out on the fields of Britain, monitoring the hunts and using tried and tested non-violent tactics to get between the fox and the hounds whenever they can. They don't want to be there, but they can see that nobody else is doing the job."

If the HSA were honest, they would tell you that many prosecutions have been attempted to be brought but that the vast majority have failed, because the law has not been broken. Nevertheless, the HSA and similar organisations refuse to accept the law of the land or the actions of the police or CPS and continue to harrass and intimidate because they believe themselves above the law.

What a shame that you have chosen to support them in this - it discredits both the ethics and the integrity of your company.

Nic Barker

bizbachfan

Oct. 9, 2009, 06:40 AM

Can any one cite some examples of what exactly HSA has done to hurt horses/people? I am just not familiar with them. Thanks!

Equibrit

Oct. 9, 2009, 09:58 AM

Read this; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4968610/Hunt-supporter-killed-by-gyrocopter-after-confronting-animal-rights-activists.html

They are here too; http://www.huntsab.org/

Many, many incidents of this type;

Violence flares at fox hunt

Published Date: 15 March 2004

FIVE people were injured when animal rights protesters clashed with fox hunters in North Derbyshire.
Police - already at the hunt because of previous problems - had to call in extra officers to cope with the disturbance.
One hunt member was arrested and has been bailed while investigations continue.
Two protesters were taken to hospital for treatment to injuries but Derbyshire police said they were only slightly hurt, despite hunt saboteurs claims the wounds were serious.
Demonstrators claimed a disabled man in his 40s was hurt in a collision with a huntsman on horseback and a teenager received a cut from a rider's whip. But members of the Barlow Hunt, near Chesterfield, claim saboteurs assaulted three of their group, injured a horse and threatened children at the meet, at Rumbling Farm on Saturday.
They also claim another man was pulled from his horse and protesters attempted to drag a second rider to the ground.
A Chesterfield police spokesman said: "A sergeant and a couple of constables went to monitor what was happening.
"About 20 protesters turned up. They got into altercations. A couple of protesters got injured, but only slightly.
"One huntsman was arrested. He has been interviewed and bailed. Extra officers attended."
The incident ended after police warned the protesters they were causing a breach of the peace.
Recently, 14 campaigners, aged between 17 and 58, were arrested "to prevent a breach of the peace" after disrupting a fox hunt organised especially for children in Chesterfield.
Kay Chapman, spokesperson for the Countryside Alliance, said: "This is the second serious attack in three weeks. The fact that these extremists made no attempt to disrupt hunting, and were focused on assaulting and intimidating hunt supporters, shows this is nothing to do with animal welfare."

Beverley

Oct. 9, 2009, 10:05 AM

PaddyUK

Oct. 9, 2009, 12:06 PM

Don't have time to do the research for you- but if you want to do a little digging, over the years, these idiots have sprayed caustic materials on the hounds, grabbed horses by their bridles and pulled them down, stolen hounds, vandalized and burglarized the homes of foxhunters including huntsmen, and terrorized the inhabitants of those homes.

Many of the offenders don't even have an opinion on hunting- they are hired thugs, and do it for the money.

We also have the ALF to deal with - having had one of their members hanging off my horses bridle, with a Police Officer videoing the inncident - trying to take action, unless there is an injury or fatality is futile.

I was told that this person could not be identified due to the number or Anti's and ALF members out that day. I'll never forget her:no:

Great, so you are against hunting/animal cruelty but are happy to swing your whole weight off a horses bit.

Thanks for the links EB. I can't find the one that actually makes a point of targeting our hunt and then brags about it.

In the old days it was spraying Anti-mate and distracting hounds with a horn.

Now, despite hunting within the Legislation, it is the followers and their horses who are targeted.

Paddy

Madeline

Oct. 10, 2009, 11:45 AM

Equibrit

Oct. 10, 2009, 03:30 PM

Educate yourself Madeline. http://www.countryside-alliance.org.uk/blogcategory/rural-manifesto/

Hunts warned to avoid conflict with monitors

Charlotte White, H&H deputy news editor
10 October, 2009

UK hunts are being warned to avoid confrontations with antis this season after concerns that "hunt monitors" are trying to bait followers.

In a letter sent to packs last month, Masters of Foxhounds Association (MFHA) chairman Stephen Lambert said: "Their [the monitors'] prime objective is, without doubt, to inflame our supporters and trigger a serious public order incident in which hunting people will be shown as the aggressors."

For the first time since November 2005, no hunt is facing prosecution under the Hunting Act, and repeal looks increasingly possible.

Antis, therefore, are exploring other ways to win back the support they have lost since the Act came into force, says the MFHA.

The Heythrop and Vale of Aylesbury with Garth and South Berks (VAGSB) has experienced an increase in activity by monitors, including Protect Our Wild Animals (POWA) members Penny Little and Peter Bunce, in the past few weeks.

Guy Portwin, senior master of the VAGSB, said: "The hunt has been targeted by local monitors about six times so far this season. Several complaints have been made to police by the hunt, including concerning the filming of children.

"We have stressed to followers the need for restraint, no matter how provoked anyone feels, and are pleased to report that followers are filming the monitors, making complaints to the police and avoiding interaction."

The Countryside Alliance (CA) has written to the chief constables of Thames Valley Police and Gloucestershire Police pointing out the antis are pursuing a clear strategy of incitement.

Mr Lambert told H&H: "The antis of this world are desperate. They lost the moral and wildlife management arguments ages ago. Now they see that their only hope of wrecking repeal is to provoke a disastrous public order incident that they will try to pin on the hunting world.
"I am optimistic that the police are now beginning to grasp the picture and will play their part as much as they can to ensure that the next few months pass without incident."
This news story was first published in Horse & Hound (8 October, 2009)

Madeline

Oct. 10, 2009, 04:38 PM

Educate yourself Madeline. http://www.countryside-alliance.org.uk/blogcategory/rural-manifesto/

Well, Equibrit, that was pretty rude. I'm trying to keep American foxhunters from making the same mistake that the Brit hunters did. Which was to defend hunting on the basis of tradition and rodent control, the only defenses being put forth when I was in England in 1996. That the Countryside Alliance has figured out ther error of their ways in the intervening 13 years is a good thing. I was just hoping to prevent American foxhunting from following the disastrous path that you took.

But maybe you weren't around in the 90's when the initial virulent anti-hunting action was happening. For information on those times, I suggest you educate yourself.

Apologies for being equally rude.

canyonoak

Oct. 10, 2009, 05:47 PM

Thanks for the Lush email address, I have just written to them:

<< My daughter introduced me to LUSH products for my birthday. I have been ever so happy with them, recommending them to all horsey and non-horsey friends.

And now, it seems that you support the terrorist anti-hunting contingent.

I have thrown out all the LUSH products and taken the time to call/ email all friends, informing them of your position and my own decision to rid the house of your products.

Really--you are an extreme disappointment to me. >>

Equibrit

Oct. 10, 2009, 10:05 PM

Well, Equibrit, that was pretty rude. I'm trying to keep American foxhunters from making the same mistake that the Brit hunters did. Which was to defend hunting on the basis of tradition and rodent control, the only defenses being put forth when I was in England in 1996. That the Countryside Alliance has figured out ther error of their ways in the intervening 13 years is a good thing. I was just hoping to prevent American foxhunting from following the disastrous path that you took.

But maybe you weren't around in the 90's when the initial virulent anti-hunting action was happening. For information on those times, I suggest you educate yourself.

Apologies for being equally rude.

I was not rude at all. You are clearly not in posession of all the facts, and it's also pretty insulting to assume that American hunters share your ignorance.
I have been around hunting and hunters (UK and US) for the greater part of my 60 years, thanks.

Madeline

Oct. 11, 2009, 09:52 AM

I was not rude at all. You are clearly not in posession of all the facts, and it's also pretty insulting to assume that American hunters share your ignorance.
I have been around hunting and hunters (UK and US) for the greater part of my 60 years, thanks.

Well, we're contemporaries, anyhow.

Maybe you weren't in England when the antis were warming up to get hunting banned. I can only report on what I saw in the English media at the time from the pro-hunting forces. Tradition and rodent control. No open space. No habitat. No green. A tiny bit on employment. A bit of angry lashing out on "we're going to have to kill all the hounds and horses."

I'm glad that the environment and open space and habitat and employment are now on the Countryside Alliance's agenda, but I'm saying that if they had been considered 15 years ago, the ban would never have happened. And if the MFHA in the US is proactive and plays the environment/conservation card, the morons from HSUS and PETA will not have success here.

If that's ignorant, so be it.

Equibrit

Oct. 11, 2009, 10:25 AM

I can only report on what I saw in the English media at the time from the pro-hunting forces.
If that's ignorant, so be it.

There you have it!

Beverley

Oct. 11, 2009, 05:06 PM

Um, actually, Equibrit, I think Madeline makes an excellent point. Both the American MFHA and USSA in my opinion need to give more emphasis to the fact that it is hunters (with guns or hounds) that do far more for animals and habitat than the PETA's and HSUS's of this world. That story doesn't get shared nearly enough.

We'll never convince the idiot antis and shouldn't bother trying. But we really should be making every effort to educate the vast majority of reasonable people as to the values of hunting. Including, and especially, that we were 'green' when 'green' wasn't cool.

Thomas_1

Oct. 11, 2009, 05:34 PM

Never heard of Lush, but I'll be on the lookout.

As for the bigger picture, I think that the anti hunting folk won because of the misdirection of the pro-hunting faction. Trying to sell hunting based on tradition and rodent control is never going to work when the protesters are urban and anti-establishment.

Try the "green "route. Preservation of habitat, open lands, ecosystems, etc. all at no cost to the taxpayer. If you can get on the same side of the issue as the conservationists and ecologists, the PETA-types will have a very hard time painting you as evil. Hope that the active fox hunters take this approach in the US before it's too late.

Madeline, Hunt supporters had a multi-pronged approach to resisting the legislation. It was based on preservation of habitat, environmental issues, loss of rural employment and a host of other things as well.

However the voting populace are centered in the cities and this was merely a classic case of popularist voting and ill thought out legislation.

That's why even though there's a ban that hunts are still hunting.

Indeed since the "ban" there's been a five fold increase in hunt membership.

Bonkers eh??

Thomas_1

Oct. 11, 2009, 05:40 PM

Can any one cite some examples of what exactly HSA has done to hurt horses/people? I am just not familiar with them. Thanks!

"Three Court of Appeal judges ruled that farmer William Kirkby was acting in self-defence when he wrested away the bat and struck Harry Cross on the side of the head, fracturing his skull.

Lord Justice Judge said Mr Kirkby, 55, should not have been expected to measure the violence he meted out to 47-year-old Mr Cross with "mathematical precision" to comply with the law.

Mr Cross, of Halesworth, Suffolk, and his partner, Margaret Davis, were on Mr Kirkby's land in October 1992 during a meeting of the Brocklesby Hunt, intending to disrupt it.

Mr Kirkby, who had had to give up hunting after a fall from a horse injured his shoulder, escorted Miss Davis off his land. The farmer had used "reasonable force" to remove her after she bit him and sat on the ground but Mr Cross, a hunt saboteur for 20 years, threatened to kill Mr Kirkby, said Lord Justice Beldam.

Mr Cross punched and kicked the farmer on his way to his car parked nearby, from which he took a baseball bat and from which Miss Davis took a metal bar.

Lord Justice Judge said Mr Cross "became abusive and threatening" and in a rage smashed the bat into the ground, breaking it along its 24-inch length.

Mr Kirkby was "thoroughly alarmed" by Mr Cross's behaviour and asked a neighbour to call the police as Mr Cross pushed him into a hedge with the bat.

The farmer tried to walk away but was hit twice by Mr Cross, "who was looking for a fight", on the arm and shoulder. When Mr Kirkby retaliated, he grabbed the bat and without swinging it or raising it above his head, hit Mr Cross a single blow. Lord Justice Judge said the blow was "not in revenge, or to teach him a lesson or give him a good hiding", but the farmer had believed he was facing a severe threat of further violence and was trying to defend himself."

Foxtrot's

Oct. 11, 2009, 08:10 PM

Just because the hunts did not "win" their fight, it does not mean they did everything wrong
as charged. In their attempt to change the Labour policy to ban hunts the Country Alliance tried everything in their power - many arrows in their quiver, but, as Thomas said, the voters are in the cities. Every tactic imaginable was thought of. However, anarchists are always available...indeed the same faces are to be seen causing riots at the soccer games, at home and abroad.

canyonoak

Oct. 12, 2009, 11:23 AM

I received an answer from Lush: Im quoting relevant paragraphs --

<<Thank you for your recent email. I would like to take this opportunity to explain why we are supporting the Hunt Saboteurs Association, who will directly receive the proceeds from our Fabulous Mrs Fox bubble bar up until and including Boxing Day...

In February 2005, hunting with hounds was made illegal in England and Wales (Scotland having done so a number of years previously). Sadly, despite being supported by more than 80% of the population and after more than 5 years of this ban being in place, hunts right across the country continue to illegally cause untold suffering to animals in the name of sport.

We feel that it is disgraceful that the Hunt Saboteurs Association, a volunteer organisation, are the only people trying to enforce a ban that was passed into Law not just by a majority in Parliament, but with overwhelming support from the majority of the British public. We also believe that this majority think that hunting has ceased now that it is against the law. Sadly this is not the case and we believe the public should have the right to know.

Lush is proud to be associated with the Hunt Saboteurs Association who show the tenacity and bravery to uphold a law that our own police force and government seem reluctant to enforce, despite strong and continued support for the ban from the British public. >>

I wrote back:

So it is all right with you that these crazy people attack human beings and in a recent case MURDERED someone...???

Then you are correct--you should give them money and support.
I am sending your email to everyone I know so that they are aware of just how wrong-headed and dangerous you all are.

They say bad publicity is better than no publicity--but I can only hope you go out of business.

You know nothing about animals. Nothing about hunting with hounds. Nothing about human compassion or kindness.

Equibrit

Oct. 12, 2009, 11:25 AM

You might ask them where they get their "facts" from ?

Oct. 12, 2009, 12:43 PM

How disappointing, I emailed them as well and will stop using their products.

PaddyUK

Oct. 12, 2009, 02:06 PM

There was never a referendum or public vote in regard to banning hunting. The 80% figure quoted by Phoney Tony Blair was from Mori polls carried out in towns - not rural areas - I never got polled once in 5 years.

There is also the hidden cost that those who were polled and said no to hunting are unaware of.

Over here we pay Council tax based on the value of our homes. A proprtion of this is towards the cost of local Policing.

The debacle I got caught up in cost the tax payers in my rural area an extra £150,000. because we have such a small force, Police Officers where bused in from as far afield as Manchester to the North and Birmingham to the South.

There were Helicopters, plod on off road motorbikes in the fields and wood, we had to have a pass to get in and out of the yard.

All of those arrested had legal aid (free legal advice including solicitors and barristers) because they were unemployed (surprise surprise) so even their legal representation came out of tax payers money. No one was charged as I recall

All this costs and those who say they wanted hunting banned are ultimatley paying those costs.

The ALF dug up the remains of a local farmers mother in-law from the local church and held her remains to ransom. Just because he breed Guinea pigs for Lab use. The leader of this little band has had cancer treatment - how hypicritical is that. He chose to use drugs tested on animals rather than follow his so called beliefs and die.

This is what we have to deal with. The ALF have deep roots in the Anti-hunt movement and think nothing of injuring horses, riders, landowners, car followers etc.

And Lush by supporting Anti-hunt activists is, by proxy supporting the ALF.

Paddy

JSwan

Oct. 13, 2009, 08:23 AM

Lush is proud to be associated with the Hunt Saboteurs Association who show the tenacity and bravery to uphold a law that our own police force and government seem reluctant to enforce, despite strong and continued support for the ban from the British public. >>

Guess which finger I'm holding up.

gypsymare

Oct. 15, 2009, 01:52 PM

Dears Ladies and Gentlemen,

I regret to inform you that I will no longer be purchasing Lush products. Your support of the Hunt Saboteurs Association is the cause. This group has been cited often for attacking hunt members, causing injury to riders, horses, and hounds as well as terrorizing children and landowners. They make no discrimination between live and drag hunts, trespass on private property and burglarize huntsmen.

Fox hunting has a large following here in the United States where quarry is run to ground and usually unharmed. Most of the equestrian community who does not partake in hunting supports the rights of fox hunters here and is opposed to any group who would infringe on those rights. News of your support of hunt saboteurs is traveling quickly and I am afraid there are now large boycott groups forming. Your decision to support this cause is most unfortunate for those of us who truly enjoyed your products.

Sincerely,

nicbarker

Oct. 16, 2009, 04:32 AM

I've also had the Lush standard reply, but I bet they are regretting their stance now ;-)

N

Equibrit

Oct. 19, 2009, 04:30 PM

Keep Lush protests within the law, urges Countryside Alliance

Charlotte White, H&H deputy news editor
19 October, 2009

The Countryside Alliance (CA) has urged hunt supporters to keep protests against high street cosmetis chain Lush within the law.

Members of the public are reported to have knocked over displays and vandalised stores across the country since Lush launched its bubble bar last week.

Lush hopes sales of the soap in the run up to Boxing Day will raise £50,000 for the Hunt Saboteurs Association (HSA).

CA spokesman Jill Grieve said: "With repeal of the Hunting Act increasingly likely, it is vital that everyone who supports hunting helps to protect and enhance hunting's reputation, not discredit it. Legitimate channels of complaint remain the only way to proceed."

The bubble bar will be sold in Lush stores until Boxing Day, and customers are being asked to complete a postcard asking their local police force to enforce the Hunting Act.

Horseandhound.co.uk forum member, Linda W, said she intends to fill a basket with Lush products, get it weighed and wrapped and then leave the shop.

She said: "I will not be rude or threatening to the staff — unlike the female HSA member who called my six-year-old daughter scum."

Another added her own poster to a billboard outside the Taunton store, so the sign read "Keep Hunting — For Fox Sake" (http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php?Number=4904296).
Others have been swapping anti-hunting leaflets in store with those supporting country sports.

Ware Whip!

Oct. 20, 2009, 07:13 AM

Not only will I not be using this line, my bussiness will never carry it, and my client base will be enlighted to this information.

I can not even comment I am so disgusted :no:

AengusOg

Nov. 6, 2009, 03:28 PM

Remember too, that these hunt sabs don't have the guts to show their faces while they are disrupting these hunts...........they wear camouflage, military-style gear and balaclavas.

They try to intimidate and cause fear in law abiding people, including children.

They spray hounds with a product called 'anti-mate', which hampers their scenting ability, and throw marbles down under the feet of horses.

Much of their hatred of pro-hunting people is class-based.

Many of them have never worked a day in their lives, sponging off the state, when the people they seek to hurt are hard working and law-abiding.

danceronice

Nov. 8, 2009, 12:54 PM

Re arguing in favor of hunting based on conservation/green issues--that's something all kinds of hunters need to do! (Like pointing out where money for wetlands preservation comes from--federal duck stamps all hunters have to buy in addition to their state license. Plus by and large it's not fluffy-bunny urban animal lovers who belong to Ducks Unlimited or Pheasants Forever!)

I don't think I've ever bought a Lush product, and I certainly won't be buying any now, plus if I run into anyone considering it, they'll be getting an earful (and I do competitive ballroom--we run through an awful lot of cosmetics, fragrances and body/hair care in our sport.) I think, looking at their website, I've been in a Lush store at the mall in MA, and I ended up not buying anything anyway as their prices were extortionate for what you got.

Heh, there you go, go in a Lush store, waste the associates' time which they could be using on paying customers, use up as many (very expensive) testers as you can find an excuse to, and leave without purchasing anything. You don't have to say a word, it's perfectly legal, and it smacks them in the bottom line.

Beverley

Nov. 12, 2009, 11:50 PM

"And what of Lush cosmetics? The high street cosmetics chain decided to market soap in support of the Hunt Saboteurs Association. Following a concerted effort to point out the evils of getting tied up with extremists it seems that all reference to the HSA has since been removed from the Lush website and I noted in a recent visit to Cardiff that the 'hunt sab soap' was completely absent."

JSwan

Nov. 13, 2009, 08:51 AM

Beverly - I'm glad for that news.

I think that danceronice brings up a very good subject - hunting as a wildlife management tool and a "green" form of management at that.

I'm saddened to find that in my state at least - mounted foxhunters do not seem to attend VDGIF meetings, or participate in game/wildlife management at all.

What really shocked me was the number of people who don't know they need a hunting license to hunt - even as a guest or for Virginia Hunt Week.

Mounted foxhunters can be accused of being conservationists only because it serves our interests- but we know that's not true. Like DU, QU and other groups it can be hard to get that message out - that conservation is important for its own sake - not just so we can hunt.

A person doesn't need to belong to a club in order to become involved, you can sign up for emails from your game department, volunteer for clean up at parks (this might be a nice off season project for the club), or otherwise contribute. It's all good.

Re arguing in favor of hunting based on conservation/green issues--that's something all kinds of hunters need to do!