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SouthernComfortMax
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:43 PM
My new mare is a Friesian and I am torn about her mane. I am NOT a fan of long manes and religiously pull my other guys manes. If I pull it will she look funny?? I don't want to take away from her breed but it's driving me crazy. And if I leave it long, what do I do with it at shows? Opinions please! :)

Willow: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30292902&id=1461273053

This is before we got her...(not our farm)

dbadaro
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:49 PM
don't do it to a friesian!!!! for shows you can do a running braid

krackc
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:10 PM
Friesian fanatics probably shouldn't continue reading as they might have a heart attack.

We have a nice friesian and I've roached his mane. I also shave his feathers off, and he looks FABULOUS. I will take pictures if you are interested.

MissBri
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:23 PM
You can do a lattice (diamond) braid or a running french braid

Shiaway
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:24 PM
Here's my rule of thumb for long manes regardless of breed-- if it's thick and luxurious, don't pull it!! Especially on a fresian or spanish horse and for god sake don't roach it. There are only a few horses on the planet that can pull off a roach IMO. And on a spanish horse for instance, to me it makes the horse look like a brood mare.

If you have such a mane as this (I couldn't see the picture)--i.e. thick and long and fabulash--than I would keep it well sprayed with detangler or something or even long braids. When I rode I would do a french braid (it takes 30 seconds once you get good at it). You can do a really nice french braid that stays up on the neck (vs. a running braid like you see on arabians) by just adding from both sides when you add the pieces of hair into the braid (think of it like french braiding a person's hair).

If the mane is thin and kind of pathetic then pull it. I've known people who have a spanish horse or a fresian and just because of the breed they leave the long mane but in fact their horse missed the "good hair gene" and so they end up with a horse looking quite ratty because the mane is thin and crappy.

I love the thick long mane. To me nothing says stud muffin better (well except maybe a nice crest) but my horse, a lusitano, missed out on that. He had a long mane but it was pathetic. So I pulled it and he looks much better. If it had been a thick mane I would have left it.

Oh and I'd shave off the feathers only because in my area scratches would be a big concern. And I'd put my horse's health over beauty any day.

SouthernComfortMax
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:26 PM
Friesian fanatics probably shouldn't continue reading as they might have a heart attack.

We have a nice friesian and I've roached his mane. I also shave his feathers off, and he looks FABULOUS. I will take pictures if you are interested.

OH OH! I wanna see! I roach Max's mane and it looks really cute!

krackc
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:35 PM
Alright, I'll take pictures tomorrow then post them :D

Pineridge
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:43 PM
My coach rides a beautiful Friesian stallion, and although she would love to pull his mane, she has left it long. I usually braid for her, and I love braiding his mane, I just do a running braid, keeping it as tight as possible. Its much faster than regular braids and comes out much quicker too !!

SouthernComfortMax
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:43 PM
Yeah her mane is kinda crappy and she doesn't have great feathers either. I have put her on bioflax so I am hoping that helps. The people I got her from never kept her in or put sunscreen on her so she is pretty bleached out which is very icky!!

Shiaway
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:30 AM
If the mane is crappy then it's crappy. You could try putting it in a few big braids (like the mane version of a tail bag) which might help but that is also rather labor intensive and I'm not sure if it even works or not.

Oh and I wouldn't do a running braid, I'd do a french braid.

thatmoody
Oct. 8, 2009, 06:57 AM
The mane bags do work, and so does keeping it braided. For shows we do a french braid (a running braid on the andalusian) and it keeps the braids from slapping me like whips like the long braids do in schooling. I hate that, so I usually french braid the braids together when I ride. His mane is knee length now and that's honestly a pain, as well as being hot, so it stays braided ALWAYS. Once a week wash, condition, and braid. It takes years to grow it out and only a few seconds to destroy it (ask me how I know this - cough cough - chewed braid - cough cough). I'm fighting the forelock right now, too - he hates to have that washed, so I'm just letting it go, and it looks awful!

WBLover
Oct. 8, 2009, 08:47 AM
I'm really big on keeping a horse that is going to be doing one of the sport disciplines, clipped and groomed like a sport horse.

If I had a purebred Friesian, I don't know that I'd clip the feathers on the feet, but maybe I would. I have seen some with feathers clipped, and all tacked up in a dressage saddle doing upper level stuff, and you can hardly tell them from a fancy WB, they look great! I'd definitely keep the mane pulled no matter what, to me some nice big button braids with white tape would make that beautiful Friesian neck really show nicely!

I have a Friesian cross, and although I don't know if he'd grow much feathers even if I let him, I keep his fetlocks clipped clean like a sport horse. His mane is also neatly cut and the ends softened with clippers, not pulled, only because his mane is so darn thick it would take me HOURS to pull it.

Here's my guys "cut" mane and he's due for a fetlock clipping in this pic, but you get the idea. I leave the forelock long to help him shoo the flies out of his eyes:

http://picasaweb.google.com/notasoccermom68/Beau#5354020698878384946

yaya
Oct. 8, 2009, 08:53 AM
Way back when, Hokan Thorn showed Bold Contender at Grand Prix level, and she had feathers shaved and mane pulled.

I didn't think it looked very good on her. But back then, the Friesians looked a lot more drafty, not as sleek and sporty as they are breeding for now.

friesian4me
Oct. 8, 2009, 09:16 AM
As a Friesian owner and lover,I would only shorten the mane if it was thin and stragly. Then I would cut it and then let it grow out. I keep my guy in long individual braids and do a french braid for shows. He is out 24/7. I do trim the feathers high on his cannon bone and blend them down on the fetlock. There is no set rule, do what's best for your situation.

narcisco
Oct. 8, 2009, 10:27 AM
I don't know if this is true for Friesians but I heard it from a Gypsy vanner breeder who said it was true of his breed. He said the larger the horse, the less "hair" they tend to have. It is certainly true of my Friesian, who is huge. He has a lot of tail but not much in the way of feathers or mane. In addition, Bram rubs his mane and ends up with patches missing. So, I roach it and my theory is the mane only shows from one side anyway, so people rarely notice from a distance. Then I let it grow and if possible do a running braid, then he eats under the fences and rubs it, and I roach again.

Shiaway
Oct. 8, 2009, 10:35 AM
WBlover,

But these are not WBs. They're not sport horses in the way that one might think of a sport horse.

I find that for showing a true french braid can look just as nice and clean as regular braids. In fact I almost like it better since it stays in one line over the top and accentuates the crest. On these horses anyway.

A horse can have a long mane and still do even high level dressage and still look quite well presented. But you may get some comments as I did once. I was told "well I guess it depends on how serious you are" as though the length of my horse's mane was somehow indicative of my seriousness for dressage LOL. What a DQ idea.

thatmoody
Oct. 8, 2009, 10:56 AM
I couldn't make my Friesian look like a WB if I tried, so why bother? :) I might as well work with him the way he is, and groom him according to his standard. His legs would still be 24cm even if I shaved them, so what's the use? He's a baroque horse :cool:.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k307/thatmoody/Horse/jorrit.jpg

WBLover
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:03 PM
Absolutely, I agree that they are baroque horses and not sport horses, but like yaya said, they are breeding them much sportier in type these days, so what looks best for the "type" you have would probably be best then.

Look at this guy (looks better after you get past the piaffe/passage schooling part of the video):

http://dressagedaily.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=1494&Itemid=363

He's clipped and pulled, and I think he looks really nice, and you can still tell he's a Friesian! I'm just not a big fan of all that hair flying around I guess. But I do agree that the really typey Friesians that are heavier should keep their feathers at least, but I'm still on the fence about the manes.

quietann
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:36 PM
I will admit to being a "mane snob." If the horse grows a nice long mane, and it's traditional in the breed to keep it long, then do so unless it drives you insane!

Maresy, who's a Morgan, has finally grown out her mane after a bad pulling job last summer. It's still shorter and thinner at the withers, but we're working on it. We get a lot of compliments on her beautiful mane. I French braid it for shows and am getting better about doing that for everyday riding too. The biggest problem with a French braid is that she'll pull it out if she decides to graze. I'm also letting her tail grow out; it's thinner than her mane, thanks to her rubbing the top out on the shipping van when I got her 18 months ago, but growing well and just above her fetlocks now.

Shiaway
Oct. 8, 2009, 01:11 PM
To me the horse in the video looks like a percheron cross the way he is clipped. If you want a WB buy a WB.

thatmoody
Oct. 8, 2009, 01:22 PM
Yes, I mean that my Friesian is the baroque type of Friesian, rather than the sport type. :)

WBLover
Oct. 8, 2009, 02:20 PM
Well, Shiaway, I DID look at WB's, but ended up that my Friesian/WB cross was the best horse for the money I could spend, which wasn't much!!

The OP asked for an opinion if her mare's mane should be pulled, or left long. I gave her MY opinion. And, like her, I am NOT a big fan of long manes.

Mor4ward
Oct. 8, 2009, 06:59 PM
Okay - I feel compelled to chime in:

I have a 5 y/o Friesian gelding.
Did I buy him, looking for a "Friesian"? No - I was looking for a horse. My Holsteiner had passed away 9 months earlier, and it was time for a new mount. I won't bother to connect the dots that brought us together (it was a long, strange trip), but here we are.

There seem to be two distinct camps, regarding the role of Friesians in the horse world: the first consists of those who do consider them sport horses. After all, the Friesian is one of the earliest breeds of War Horse. Hence, by definition, a Friesian is expected to deal with anything thrown at him, from a drop fence and two strides to an oxer ... to a XC gallop ... to correct work in the Dressage ring.

The other camp, to which I refer as "the Friesian Cult" ... the horse sporting the long, flowing mane and feathers, usually ridden bareback by bare-headed, busoms-busting-out-of-bodice blondes. I tell ya - some of the stallion ads I get from FHANA breeders start to resemble soft porn.

I also wish I could track down something I read when I first got him - it was from a Friesian trainer, that went, "Friesians do not work if they are bored ... they do not work if they are tired ... " Yea - right! Not when he's on MY dime!

My trainer (Old School classic Master) was adamant.
If you're serious about making your Friesian into an athlete - he should LOOK like one. So the mane got pulled and the feathers got shaved. My guy looks elegant, athletic and ... civilized! He's not "Baroque", he's not a plow horse - he is a "post-modern Friesian." :)

We got a champ at intro dressage this summer - he was trimmed and braided.
I've been a ring steward for a coupla years at USDF shows, and always made a point of asking the judges for their candid opinions regarding Friesian turnout.
They try to be as tactful as possible, but with a little prodding, all have said they prefer to see them "trimmed".
The mane is not as important, provided it is at least in a running braid, but the feathers detract from them seeing what the foot is doing.
(Slightly OT - the feathers can be a hygiene issue, riding through mud or water. I hope to do Hunter Paces and maybe some Horse trials with this guy)

Bottom line: do you and your Friesian want to go down the "bodice and busoms/ Lady Godiva" route, or do you and your horse want to be considered serious competitors in your chosen equestrian sport?

thatmoody
Oct. 8, 2009, 08:50 PM
Hmm, I guess I'm glad I'm stacked...Cause the feathers are staying. They didn't seem to bother his dad (Jorrit 363) when he showed PSG...

Shiaway
Oct. 8, 2009, 11:36 PM
So you're saying that if someone prefers to keep the heritage of their horse then they must be a bodice wearing, froo froo? What a ridiculous idea to judge someone's horsemanship etc. by the length of their horse's mane.

Fresians are heavy, almost drafty (OMG the fresian people will murder me for using that word) type of horses. They aren't sport horse. I'm not saying you shouldn't pull their mane. It's up to you what you do with your horse. But I just don't see why it's necessary to pass judgment on those people who prefer to go with the heritage of their breed, which is in fact a long mane. Watch the riders from the Netherlands on Fresians, they have long manes and feathers even at, OMG, GP.

Jane Savoy's fresian sports a long mane and feathers. I wonder if this means she's in the bodice-wearing/lady godiva camp? Who knows she does live in vermont (I love Vermont BTW).

Just to state: I don't own a fresian. I'm not really interested in that breed. I have a lusitano. His mane is pulled and he's kept trimmed (except for ears and whiskers which I think is not right to do to him--I neaten up the outsides of his ears). But if he had been blessed with the "good hair" gene I'd have left his mane long and I would have kept up with it. It doesn't take that much time once you're comfortable with it. And you keep it braided so it always stays neat and businessman-like.

And seeing how numerous lusitanos/spanish horses have been ridden in the Olympics and other top events with long manes I'm assuming those riders are still serious about dressage and not planning on doing any bodice-wearing performances.

And I hate riding bareback. I do like period costumes though... I also have the lady godiva hair if only it grew longer...

thatmoody
Oct. 9, 2009, 05:30 AM
I haven't found scratches to be a big problem, and I live in a very humid and wet area, but I do wash his feathers weekly and he gets the driest pasture. I wash them with Microtek and haven't had any problems. He is also bedded on straw which I do think helps. His legs are so big that I truthfully don't think that shaving them would help hide what he is, so he might as well be shown according to breed standard, same as we show our Andalusian (mane french braided, fetlocks shaved) or the Arabian.

Seriously, though, the judges I've talked to have cared a lot more about the quality of the test than about how the horse is dressed, even at recognized shows. I know how to turn out a horse, and it's not like we go in with mane a'flying and armor clanking...I didn't deliberately go out and buy a Friesian (he has a long, convoluted story) but I'm glad he's here now.

Agh, the post above mine is seriously weird, and until I read it on other posts I didn't get it (well, the Asian escort thing seemed like a joke on the bodice ripping aspect on this particular thread). I THOUGHT it looked familiar but I hadn't re-read the first page :D.

friesian4me
Oct. 9, 2009, 08:17 AM
Time for me to buy a push up bra!

WBLover
Oct. 9, 2009, 08:53 AM
I think huanic's computer is plagued with a virus that is causing those links to be put in there.

Huanic, you may want to run a good virus scan on your computer!!

WBLover
Oct. 9, 2009, 08:53 AM
Well, looks like the BB wiped it out already!!

Mor4ward
Oct. 9, 2009, 08:19 PM
just to lighten it up ... http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/56b5b12545/conan-obrien-interviews-martha-stewart-from-conanfan?rel=player

So it's Fobio and not Lady Godiva :lol:

happyhorsegirl
Oct. 10, 2009, 11:12 PM
Egads! Why the drama?

To me, a Friesian is much much more than the sum of its hair.

My opinion is do whatever you like. My boy had a thinnish mane which got eaten at the bottom by his pasture buddy so I pulled it to a normal length. Wanted to get rid of feathers too (I like tidy, clipped legs)-- but once at a show saw a friesian without feathers --the horse looked humongous and its legs looked like little sticks. (Not to say that they all look like that clipped though--no offense intended) That was it for me--feathers stayed.

Some people were shocked about the mane but it didn't bother me--I preferred a tidier look and thought he looked prettier braided with traditional braids anyway.

Your horse, your choice.

If my horse had had a gorgeous thick mane I wouldve kept it. But to keep a ratty looking long mane just to honor the "heritage of the breed"? Nonsense.

BohemianRN
Oct. 11, 2009, 01:25 AM
Hello!

I lease a Friesian and take dressage lessons with him. He has a lovely long mane and tail that we adore. For "serious" riding, we "french" braid it. Would love to learn to diamond braid as that makes your horse look rather snazzy!! While I love a hairy horse and would personally not pull a Friesian's mane, it really depends. If it is distracting and cumbersome to you, go for it. I am sure he will look lovely regardless. :)

Shiaway
Oct. 11, 2009, 07:13 PM
"
If my horse had had a gorgeous thick mane I wouldve kept it. But to keep a ratty looking long mane just to honor the "heritage of the breed"? Nonsense."

I'm guessing you're replying to me? But if you read my posts a little more thoroughly you will see that I am not saying one should keep a ratty mane just to honor the heritage of the breed.

In fact I've said very similar things to what you said. My own horse has a pulled mane because it was not a very thick mane and just made him look unkempt.

But what I'm saying is that if one has a Fresian or baroque horse and still wants to ride and even compete (how unheard of) in dressage, they shouldn't feel pressure to have to pull it if they don't want to. And those of us with non-WB/sport horse types of horses shouldn't be given pressure to make our horses try to look like what they are not unless we want to.

That's all I'm saying. Other people have put pressure on me to pull my horse's mane when he had it long. I did pull his mane but it had nothing to do with snide remarks I got. I wasn't trying to make him look more like a sport horse because he would never look like one. But his ratty long mane just didn't do him any favors. It wasn't becomming in my eyes. If he'd had a gorgeous thick mane it would have looked a lot nicer.

I just don't see where it's written that dressage horses have to try to look like sport horses aka warmbloods or thoroughbreds. And if you have a fresian and you try to make it look like a warmblood you're going to fail (I'm not saying you shouldn't try if that's what you want to do).

happyhorsegirl
Oct. 11, 2009, 08:02 PM
Remark not aimed at you in particular, I did read your threads and you did just as I did and seem very common sense about the whole thing.

Remark more aimed at those people who were so offended that I would even consider pulling a Friesians mane-- i.e. one person at a horse show was very rude about it, forget exactly what she said (something about Dutch people rolling in their graves or such nonsense) but it was quite rude. I didn't reply to her but wanted to say MYO(damn)B or "why don't you find something actually important to go bother people about"

redhorse5
Oct. 11, 2009, 10:38 PM
I have a 12 year old Friesian and I do roach his mane. He looks really cute. I left the feathers and his tail is very full. I let the mane grow out in the winter but roach it every summer. He loves it. He hated his long mane and tried to rub it off every chance he got. I've owned him since he was 3 and I don't plan on selling him so it really doesn't matter what he looks like but everyone who sees him thinks his roach job is darling.

Donella
Oct. 12, 2009, 01:00 AM
I train/own a Friesian mare that has an incredibly long, thick mane and we braid for the show ring. I also appreciate a tidy look and often wonder what it would look like pulled but I think at the end of the day, it just "wouldn't seem right". When I braid her for the show, I braid her forelock and tuck it into the bridle and do a tight running braid on her mane.....

Show ready:
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0055_edited-2.jpg

Show ready with forelock unbraided..not sure what looks better?
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0041_edited-1.jpg

And naturally....
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0133_edited-2.jpg

slc2
Oct. 12, 2009, 07:38 AM
only stallions are shown with an unbraided forelock.

Donella
Oct. 12, 2009, 01:19 PM
only stallions are shown with an unbraided forelock.

According to whom? Most Friesian mares are lacking in anything outside of a normal forlock so perhaps it may seem this way? There are no particular rules as to how Friesian mares are to be shown under saddle with the FPS...that much I know.

thatmoody
Oct. 12, 2009, 01:37 PM
There is no specific rule, but in baroque horses an unbraided forelock is the traditional sign of a stallion. It's not a "rule" per se, but it is traditional.

winfieldfarm
Oct. 12, 2009, 02:00 PM
To the OP - Here's my thought for what it's worth, which ain't much.

GO BY THE RULES OF THE SHOWS YOU SHOW IN!

By this I mean that I show mainly Arabians and Arab crosses in both sport horse and main ring arab shows as well as open carriage.

By RULE an arabian can not show main ring classes with altered mane, forelock or tail hair. This means it must be flowing, natural and uncut with no false hair tied in or dyes to change the color. Now the hunt seat horses can have braids in the mane and forelock but the tail can not be cut or banged. If you show main ring halter, no matter how pathetic your horses hair gene, it better be flowing in all it's stringy glory. So if you show main ring halter and main ring hunt seat, your horse has a full mane and is frenched for the saddle class.
HOWEVER, if you show Sport Horse Arab, you can pull a mane but the horse may not enter the ring of any class (other than jumper I think) without its braids in. That included in hand.

So the moral of the story is go with your breed or discipline rules.

If you are showing strictly Fresian show dressage tests, I bet the expectations are to let it fly free and be braided for the test. But Open dressage wants a clean picture to match the horse's performance. That may mean a running, french or diamond braid or pulled main and appropriate braids.

Either way, you will take some flack, pull and the Fresian hair lovers will be appalled. Dont pull and dressage purists will look down their noses.

I say, you have to take care of the hair the other 364 days of the year, so pick which side of the fence suits you and your show situation best, grow a thick skin to the nay sayers and ride proud!

One other thing, weak wispy feathers look messy on a Fresian, not balanced. Full flowing feathers have a better line of blend into the cannon. Take a long hard look at your horses profile and body lines in relation to their hair. What will make your fresian look the cleanest with the best flow of body lines? I would try the shaved feathers in the off season so that if you don't like the results you can grow back by first show.

bort84
Oct. 12, 2009, 02:29 PM
I train/own a Friesian mare that has an incredibly long, thick mane and we braid for the show ring. I also appreciate a tidy look and often wonder what it would look like pulled but I think at the end of the day, it just "wouldn't seem right". When I braid her for the show, I braid her forelock and tuck it into the bridle and do a tight running braid on her mane.....

Show ready:
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0055_edited-2.jpg

Show ready with forelock unbraided..not sure what looks better?
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0041_edited-1.jpg

And naturally....
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn273/SpruceViewFarms/DSC_0133_edited-2.jpg

So you could totally be one of the bodice wearing lady godiva haired ladies in that last picture = ) Your pony looks straight off of a romance novel cover, haha. Could be a fun Halloween costume!

I personally think she looks tidier with her forelock braided, shows off that sweet face. I feel that way about all horses though, even stallions. I just like a braided forelock. Plus, I think some horses really appreciate having the hair tidied up, and it gives them one less thing to potentially fuss about in a test, haha. My guy almost never minds about his forelock flying free, but every once in awhile it tickles him just right and he decides it's going to bug him until something else distracts him.

I do know it can be very challenging to get all of that forelock hair in a tidy braid, so I can see why some would just leave it undone.

To the OP, do what you like. I think most horses look fabulous in dressage braids, so if you don't want to deal with the long mane, get rid of it. Also, I feel the same way about feathers. You could try it during the off season and see how you like it (though I'm not sure how quickly all of that hair grows back). I love to see friesians turned out in a sport horse fashion if it suits them. And I also like to see them in their full hairy glory, so do what you like = )

Also, in regards to the horse posted in the dressagedaily ad, I think he looks sort of like a perch cross too! Haha. But I'd guess it's more to do with his overall shape rather than his pulled mane and clipped legs.

SouthernComfortMax
Oct. 13, 2009, 09:00 PM
UPDATE!! Thanks for all the advice and sorry to cause so much drama! I roached her mane and clipped her feather DOH! I left her forelock though. I think she looks cute! Her mane was pretty darn ugly anyways so I figured I would start over! We aren't showing probably until this spring anyways so I figured its just hair...it'll grow back hopefully much nicer and then I can figure out what to do with it then. :) Side note: She is a big heavy model so not she kinda looks like a cart horse which I am sure will not set well with all the fancy warmblood riding DQ's at the barn! HAHA! :)

ThreeFigs
Oct. 13, 2009, 09:38 PM
Good for you! I like a good roach job.

Now that that's settled, could someone here explain to me the difference between a French and a Running braid? I thought they were the same thing.

Also, yeah, I've been told that "only" stallions wear their forelocks unbraided. Here I read that's only for the "Baroque" breeds -- so my Hanoverian gelding can go with his glorious Fabio-like forelock wild and free. So sez I!

Jane Savoie
Oct. 13, 2009, 10:35 PM
Nope. I'm not a bodice-wearing,bare-headed, busoms-busting-out, blonde. If I wore a bodice, I'd probably scare the sh*t out of everyone. LOL

If you want to see some pics of Moshi, I have them on my Facebook page. The profile shot shows him "dressed up" for a show. I haven't had any judges penalize him for looking like a Friesian.

But if you look at the second album in the left column, you'll see his flowing locks. I think they're kinda cool.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Berlin-Vermont/Solve-Horseback-Riding-Fears/149140361379

Daatje
Oct. 14, 2009, 10:17 AM
Jane Savoie, I nearly spewed my coffee all over my keyboard! That was too funny. :D

I have a pure bred Friesian mare with whom I Foxhunt. Her mane is of normal thickness, but I detest it in my hands as I ride, so I pull it to the length which makes a good button braid. Her neck is on the short side, so a shorter mane has a lengthening effect, which is nice.

Her forelock is short, naturally, so it matches her shorter mane.

Her feathers are shaved for hunting, all but the bit that grows off the back of the ankle. I let the feathers grow in for winter to protect her skin from the cold and snow.

Here are some photos of her in action:
http://daatje2009.webs.com/103383166113_0_BG.jpg
http://daatje2009.webs.com/877973166113_0_BG.jpg
Button Braids:
http://www.freewebs.com/daatjedressage/warmupheadshot3.JPG

jumponit
Oct. 14, 2009, 04:00 PM
Not to thread hijack, but need to clarify.

Arabians can have pulled manes and banged tails in the main show ring. There is no rule against it. I showed my mare for years with her mane pulled and tail banged in hunter, and never had anyone say anything, and always placed well.

As for the Friesans, its your horse, do what you like. While not a fan of long manes myself, I find the baroque breeds gorgeous with them, as long as they are nicely braided to show.

narcisco
Oct. 14, 2009, 06:19 PM
This is the Justin Timberlake look, buzz cut, scruffy beard:

Bram T (http://www.medicinehorse.org/images/bramhead.jpg)

Also, it does make a difference if you are going to show your Friesian in both the breed shows IFSHA (http://www.friesianshowhorse.com/) and in dressage. If you show in the breed shows, the purebred must have full mane and feathers. In the USEF rulebook, it falls under the "natural splendor" clause.

Coppers mom
Oct. 14, 2009, 09:29 PM
To me the horse in the video looks like a percheron cross the way he is clipped. If you want a WB buy a WB.

And if you want to do dressage dress and groom like others that do dressage.

ddashaq
Oct. 14, 2009, 09:56 PM
I just spent last week at the FHANA convention and show. Every horse there had a full mane, tail, and feathers. I am pretty sure that anyone with a shorn mane and no feathers would have caused people to faint dead away!:lol: Of course, I am not one to go along with breed rules-- I show my arab over fences with a pulled mane. If you want to show in friesian shows, you will have to follow their rules, otherwise just go with what you like.:)

narcisco
Oct. 14, 2009, 10:07 PM
Yes, I'm all for keeping the heritage of a breed (I roached the mane due to rubbing, and wishful thinking that it will grow back better). Jay Cherry used shoe polish to cover up Moga's spots (her GP Appaloosa) due to breed bias in dressage, and Hokan Thorne showed Jelsche under the name Bold Contender and sheared her plumage for the same reason. But that was all back in the day.

The days of off breeds having to "pass" for warmbloods are hopefully over. Judges are being better trained to respect the differences in the breeds, instead of expecting everything to look and go like warmblood. The Spanish Olympic team keeps their Andalusians in traditional long manes, respecting their heritage, and I think it's fine to keep the Friesian long mane and feathers, the same way I would keep the feathers on a Shire or Clyde if I were showing one in open dressage.

Coppers mom
Oct. 14, 2009, 10:34 PM
What in the world do you mean horses have to "pass as warmbloods"? Horses had their manes pulled, tails done, and extra hairs trimmed long before warmbloods became popular.

narcisco
Oct. 15, 2009, 12:18 AM
Friesians never did, long before competitive dressage became popular.

Shiaway
Oct. 15, 2009, 12:31 AM
And if you want to do dressage dress and groom like others that do dressage.

Wow. I think this attitude is where dressage riders get the reputation for being "DQs" etc. comes from. You think that if I want to do dressage then I should make sure I conform to what everyone else who is doing dressage does? So like if I don't use white polo wraps then I shouldn't do dressage? I mean how far do you want to go with this? If I'm not long legged and skinny then why bother eh?

I'm sorry but this hits a nerve for me because if there is anything more I detest it's conformity based on nothing more than social status and appearance, not any practical application.

There are things we do in dressage that are very practical, like riding with boots or at least half chaps, riding in clothing that isn't loose and all over the place, using dressage saddles as opposed to a jumping saddle etc. etc. But of all these things, mane length and grooming style is not one of them.

As long as you keep the mane braided while you ride so you can see the neck etc. there shouldn't be any interference with how one does dressage.

Sorry again but jeez, these kind of comments make me rethink totally rethink if I want to show next year. When I used to event people didn't look down their noses at you if you didn't fit into the crowd.

Coppers mom
Oct. 15, 2009, 01:35 AM
Seriously? I'm far from a DQ, but it's like going into a hunter, western pleasure, saddleseat, whatever ring and not wanting to conform to whatever styles are there. There's no need to revamp things, and clipping/pulling/banging have nothing to do with trying to look like a warmblood, it's just the way horses are presented for dressage.

Shiaway
Oct. 15, 2009, 02:32 AM
It's the way some horses are presented for dressage. And I originally said buy a wb if you want a wb because someone said that clipping a freisian made it look more like a sporthorse.

There's nothing in the rules that say your horse must have a pulled mane and so long as the mane is kept neat I don't see what the problem is. Something that has drawn me to dressage as opposed to all the other disciplines you described is that it's not about looks, it's about the performance. And while I'm sure there are aspects of those other disciplines that definitly require a good performance, there is also weight placed on appearance and conforming to those appearances.

Dressage should be and is IMO different.

At this point I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. I will continue to think of my friends who choose to leave their horses' manes long, as serious dressage riders and you will consider them not I guess.

slc2
Oct. 15, 2009, 06:08 AM
The Friesian mane, Shiaway, is a very, very hot topic because the Friesian is a 'glamour horse' and so many people are attracted to it because it has a long mane and tail. Thus the mane hair starts getting viewed like Euphorbos' hair.

Actually, there is a number of breeds that are shown in their breed classes at breed shows, without being trimmed, some of them are shown rather often as sport horses, like Connemaras, and Welsh ponies.

But no breed has really incited the 'Mane Ire' that the Friesian has. People simply either trim their Connemaras and Welsh ponies, or they don't. They think it looks better, is less of a hassle, whatever.

I haven't actually heard anyone accuse someone of trying to disguise their Connemara as a Warmblood when they trim their mane.

People don't generally trim a horse's mane because they have some idea they are going to fool the judge into thinking it's a warmblood. Come on. Seriously.

They trim it because it's a pain in the butt to take care of it when one is traveling, competing and braiding. It is so thick and heavy that it makes the horse hotter, it even can obscure the view of the horse's neck and head from the judge.

The typical problem with judging with a full mane, is that it makes the horse look like it's not through in the neck, or that it's overbent or breaking behind the poll; but the worst part of a very long heavy mane is the judge simply cannot see the neck, poll, jaw.

Some people are going to decide to trim that huge hair rather than braiding it every time they ride. It's a fair pain in the rear to keep it, it takes rather a lot of time. And while some people can braid it quickly and don't find it a hassle, a lot of people cannot braid quickly. I have arthritis in my fingers; braiding used to be fun, it isn't any more.

No dressage judge in the entire world has EVER looked at a trimmed Friesian and said, 'Oh, COOL! A WARMBLOOD! I'll give it a higher score, because it's a warmblood, and not a Friesian!' Face it. A trimmed Friesian doesn't look like a Warmblood. It looks like a Friesian. With a trim.

Make no mistake. It is not the dressage judges that are freaking out when someone trims or roaches a horse's mane.

It is the bystanders. That is where all the 'training' is and always has been needed, :lol:

The dressage judges are fine with it and always have been, we have had draft horses, Palominos, shaggy ponies and all other sorts of horses showing in my area for eons and there has never been some sort of general problem. Don't go pointing fingers at the judges. It's the rail riders that are freaking out.

egontoast
Oct. 15, 2009, 10:36 AM
To the OP: Do whatever you would like to do. Seriously. Don't worry about the railbirds.

narcisco
Oct. 15, 2009, 10:54 AM
I have seen warmbloods that look and move like Friesians and Friesians who look and move like warmbloods. A light Friesian mare can look very, very Dutch. The nice little mare shown eventing in the photos above (and I love that she's jumping) is an example. And back in the 80s there was a lot of breed bias the point that a judge actually wrote on a Frieisan test, "would be better pulling a cart." And this was a nice Friesian. Breed bias was a lot more prevalent back then. Why do you think Jay Cherry covered her horse's spots?

Having shown Friesians, I can say that a great mane is the easiest mane in the world to take care of. You wash it about one a year and condition it heavily. Then, you leave it in long braids for months at a time, you don't touch it, you never have to pull it. The more you leave it alone, the better it grows. When it's time to show, you French braid it.

The longer the mane, the easier it is to French braid and the better it looks. A good French braid does not interfere with the line of the or make the horse look over-flexed. It is far, far faster to French braid than traditional braid. No one leaves a long mane down to show, that I know of, so it does not obscure the head and neck from the judge.

The mane maybe gets hot and heavy (we were showing in Texas) but I don't think it bothers the horses as much as the owners.

SouthernComfortMax
Oct. 15, 2009, 03:58 PM
I think I may have created a monster. :) I am not trying to do a covert op to make her look like anything she is not and when I bought her I wasn't looking for a freisian...I just wanted a nice, pleasant, personable horse and that happened to be her. I just realy don't care for long manes in general because I just don't. After reading this I think that it is just a matter of opinion...some people like cucumbers better pickled...*shrug*

Coppers mom
Oct. 15, 2009, 04:42 PM
It's the way some horses are presented for dressage. And I originally said buy a wb if you want a wb because someone said that clipping a freisian made it look more like a sporthorse.
Since when are WB's the only sport horse? Like it or not,t he general grooming practice in all sporthorse disciplines it to pull and braid the mane. The whole sporthorse/warmblood/mane pulling thing is just weird to me. ALL breeds have pulled manes because that's the look for dressage, not the warmblood look.

There's nothing in the rules that say your horse must have a pulled mane and so long as the mane is kept neat I don't see what the problem is. Something that has drawn me to dressage as opposed to all the other disciplines you described is that it's not about looks, it's about the performance. And while I'm sure there are aspects of those other disciplines that definitly require a good performance, there is also weight placed on appearance and conforming to those appearances.
Then why does everyone wear the same thing? Why does everyone bang the tail?

Dressage should be and is IMO different.
And why is this? Why should it be different? Because you want your horse's mane long and dressage is what you do?

At this point I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. I will continue to think of my friends who choose to leave their horses' manes long, as serious dressage riders and you will consider them not I guess.
The whole bit about me not considering someone a serious dressage rider because their horses mane is long just baffles me. Where did I ever say that or even insinuate it?

I just can't follow your logic on this one.

Shiaway
Oct. 15, 2009, 06:11 PM
"And why is this? Why should it be different? Because you want your horse's mane long and dressage is what you do?"

My horse's mane isn't long. It's pulled. And I bang his tail and keep him trimmed except for inside the ears and his whiskers which I think is wrong.

I hope it's different because I like to pretend that dressage is not about clothes and hair and appearances etc. given one should be neat and presentable.

ETA: sorry regarding the warmblood thing my definition of "sporthorse" was incorrect. I don't know where I learned it from but I obviously picked up the wrong meaning.