PDA

View Full Version : Does my TB look like an Arab?



tBHj
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:04 AM
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs245.snc1/9216_167837607657_511182657_3597569_3890008_n.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs265.snc1/9216_163311437657_511182657_3562128_6732637_n.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs161.snc1/6011_140392562657_511182657_3283119_4083282_n.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2273/140/89/511182657/n511182657_2099500_3327.jpg

I've been told this more then once but I just don't see it, at all. :confused:

Kyzteke
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:08 AM
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs245.snc1/9216_167837607657_511182657_3597569_3890008_n.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs265.snc1/9216_163311437657_511182657_3562128_6732637_n.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs161.snc1/6011_140392562657_511182657_3283119_4083282_n.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2273/140/89/511182657/n511182657_2099500_3327.jpg

I've been told this more then once but I just don't see it, at all. :confused:

In a word: No.

More words: not even a little, teeny-tiny bit. Nada. There is absolutely nothing about that horse that looks even remotely "arab-y." Whoever tells you otherwise is smoking something funny behind the barn.

Looks exactly like a TB...a very handsome TB, but he/she is ALL TB...zero Arab.

MistyPony
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:12 AM
Nope.

Dazednconfused
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:17 AM
Not even remotely. He IS very attractive though! ;)

tBHj
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:20 AM
Not even remotely. He IS very attractive though! ;)

Thank you. She is a girl though. :D

I was starting to wonder because quite a few people had said she looks like an Arab. :mad:

seeuatx
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:35 AM
Some people (who know nothing but think they know everything) think that a refined face = Arab. These people really know nothing about a nice Typey TB.

To me, nope. Never. Not even close. Not even remotely araby looking in the least. Nice looking mare though. :yes:

Dazednconfused
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:39 AM
Thank you. She is a girl though. :D

I was starting to wonder because quite a few people had said she looks like an Arab. :mad:

That's angering/insulting to you? ??? LOL.

Hauwse
Oct. 7, 2009, 06:56 AM
The only aspect fo your horse that looks even remotely Arabian is her tea-cup-ish muzzle, but that is very common in TB's with very refined heads.

Does she stick her tail in the air when she moves??

That might make her look a little arabian.

mortebella
Oct. 7, 2009, 07:46 AM
Those folks need to be shown some pictures of Arabs or better yet, meet some in person :) You are correct in not seeing it in your horse.

Mamy
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:00 AM
nope!

livetoride620
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:15 AM
No way, but he is beautiful!

kookicat
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:25 AM
Nope, she looks like a nice TB to me. :)

sandstar
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:23 AM
ummm...NO
But she is a beautiful TB...!!!!!!!

paint hunter
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:26 AM
No.

By the way, is that last photo recent? Do you folks up north have snow already?

starrysky
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:34 AM
Not AT ALL, but she is lovely!

Aerial
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:49 AM
GEORGOUS mare, but fo sho not an arab.

RugBug
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:45 PM
No...she doesn't. I wouldn't worry about it. Novices tend to think "Arab" very easily.

My 16.2h WB gets called an Arab all the time. Sadly, I can't deny that he has some Arab characteristics. (Dazednconfused...I do not take it as a compliment. With my chosen discipline, it's actually quite disappointing to hear, but all I can do is laugh and shrug it off.)

Here he is as a WB (http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g14/slorugbug/horse%20stuff/IMG_0004.jpg)

Here he is impersonating an Arab (http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g14/slorugbug/horse%20stuff/ShowTrotSYVEA-1.jpg)

WB (or maybe TB) (http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g14/slorugbug/horse%20stuff/Showlookaway.jpg)

Arab (http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g14/slorugbug/horse%20stuff/ShowFlatwork.jpg)

He's got a fantastic face and flatish croup and sometimes carries his tail a bit high. That all adds up to Arab-looking. Sucker can jump, though. :winkgrin:

grayarabpony
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:50 PM
Your horse doesn't look like an Arabian, at all.

I used to own a TB who did have an Arabian type head, with a dished face, but overall she didn't look like an Arabian either.

Seven-up
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:52 PM
TB? Yes.

Warmblood? Could pass for one.

Arab? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.:no:

theroanypony
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:54 PM
Holy cow. No. She looks exactly like a very gorgeous TB.

Skip's Rider
Oct. 7, 2009, 01:14 PM
OMG, if that isn't a TB head and neck, I don't know what is! She is TB TB TB!!! No Arabian look at all. She's beautiful!

Mimi La Rue
Oct. 7, 2009, 01:25 PM
Nope, not at all. Looks all TB to me.

Sudi's Girl
Oct. 7, 2009, 02:17 PM
LOL - how funny. Anyone who has remotely been around horses should know that that horse is a very Typee (is that how they spell that??) TB!

On the other hand, I own an Arab, and the only people that can tell right off that he's an Arab are previous Arab owners - and he's even Egyptian.

I've just had to quit taking offense at breed snobbery. A good horse is a good horse to me.

From the pics - your girl looks like a good horse! :)

danceronice
Oct. 7, 2009, 03:04 PM
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs245.snc1/9216_167837607657_511182657_3597569_3890008_n.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs265.snc1/9216_163311437657_511182657_3562128_6732637_n.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs161.snc1/6011_140392562657_511182657_3283119_4083282_n.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2273/140/89/511182657/n511182657_2099500_3327.jpg

I've been told this more then once but I just don't see it, at all. :confused:


Without reading any other replies so I don't bias myself....nope. Not with that head and butt. Looks like a TB to me.

Do these people perhaps not see a lot of Arabs?

Falconfree
Oct. 7, 2009, 04:43 PM
Some people (who know nothing but think they know everything) think that a refined face = Arab. These people really know nothing about a nice Typey TB.

To me, nope. Never. Not even close. Not even remotely araby looking in the least. Nice looking mare though. :yes:

Seconded! I've met several people who seem to think that all TBs have big coarse heads.

I'm awful terrible horrible bad at telling apart horse breeds, and even I can tell that is a gorgeous Thoroughbred through and through. :D

imapepper
Oct. 7, 2009, 05:41 PM
Very typey TB :) I am not sure how that mare could possibly be mistaken for an Arab. My TB mare has been mistaken for an Arab but I think that is because she is small, grey and hot ;) I did keep her at a friend's house who has Arabs though and had her turned out with a grey Arab gelding and when they both looked at me straight on.....I could see where my mare could be mistaken :lol: She has wide set eyes and has the same ear set as the Arab she was out with :rolleyes: But in profile, my mare looks like a TB....your mare's head is a much prettier classic TB profile :) Lovely :) Just smile and take it as a compliment. They are just basically complimenting her pretty face :lol:

billiebob
Oct. 7, 2009, 05:50 PM
What a lovely girl you have!

She looks like a chunkier version of my gelding (especially the third photo you posted), who happens to be.....100% TB. :) I see no Arab at all, just gorgeous TB.

ETA: Here's the best headshot I have of him.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?page=1&aid=252918&id=751565037#/photo.php?pid=6811688&id=751565037

hellerkm
Oct. 7, 2009, 06:09 PM
NO but she does look like she would LOVE to come live with ME ;)!! She is gorgeous and not at all Araby looking to me!!!

Sparkling_Sunset
Oct. 7, 2009, 07:32 PM
No way. She looks exactly like what she is-- a very pretty TB mare! I can honestly say that she does not even remotely resemble an Arab. Whoever told you that, needs to spend some time looking at PB Arabs. Most have a VERY refined, almost unreal face, and a vey high natural tail carriage, all the time, which I can see your mare doesn't.

But she is still gorgeous! And, if anything, she could definitely pass for a warmblood. :)

chawley
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:29 PM
Not at all. I'm not sure who these people that are telling you this are, but they clearly don't have a strong grasp on the traits of an Arab and those of a TB. By the way, she's a very nice mare.

Cloverbarley
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:00 PM
I'm guessing the people who are telling you she looks like an Arab are totally non-horse people? She looks absolutely nothing like an Arab, but surprisingly she does look very much like a TB.

tBHj
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:34 PM
That's angering/insulting to you? ??? LOL.

Slightly. LOL

tBHj
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:35 PM
No.

By the way, is that last photo recent? Do you folks up north have snow already?

No snow yet! That picture is from last year. I'd die if we got snow in October.

tBHj
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:37 PM
What a lovely girl you have!

She looks like a chunkier version of my gelding (especially the third photo you posted), who happens to be.....100% TB. :) I see no Arab at all, just gorgeous TB.

ETA: Here's the best headshot I have of him.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?page=1&aid=252918&id=751565037#/photo.php?pid=6811688&id=751565037

The picture isn't working for me. Right click, properties and post the url in there?

tBHj
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:40 PM
No way. She looks exactly like what she is-- a very pretty TB mare! I can honestly say that she does not even remotely resemble an Arab. Whoever told you that, needs to spend some time looking at PB Arabs. Most have a VERY refined, almost unreal face, and a vey high natural tail carriage, all the time, which I can see your mare doesn't.

But she is still gorgeous! And, if anything, she could definitely pass for a warmblood. :)


I haven't registered her yet.. but aparently she can either be reg'd Canadian Sport or Canadian Warmblood. She's actually 7/8 TB 1/8 Percheron.. but I call her a TB anyways.

billiebob
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:54 PM
OK, this should work. Ignore the scrape above his right eye--he's a bit of a klutz.

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2188196900105464652ctGxTM

tBHj
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:58 PM
OK, this should work. Ignore the scrape above his right eye--he's a bit of a klutz.

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2188196900105464652ctGxTM

Wow he does look like my mare. Girly man. :D

What is his breeding?

billiebob
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:04 PM
http://www.pedigreequery.com/bobby+d2

There is another poster who has a broodmare by De Niro (Bobby's sire). Looks just like Bobby--same size, same color, same build. It's freaky!

And all the lesson kids though he was a mare when I got him. Same thing with my first horse. I like girly geldings. :lol:

tBHj
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:10 PM
Princequillo is the only horse they have in common in their pedigrees. So strange how much they look alike, even in color.

Here's my mares pedigree..

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/kitsunegari

FlyingSwap
Oct. 8, 2009, 09:51 AM
Your mare is beautiful!! ....And she looks NOTHING like an Arab. Clearly someone doesn't know what they're talking about.

tinah
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:05 PM
To me? Nope. NOT Arab.
That said, to the layman here in Quarter Horse Country, ANYTHING with any sort of topline that's not flat is either an Arab, or a Welsh, depending on size. Or a stallion, regardless of equipment.

pwrpfflynn
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:22 PM
WOW didn't know so many people that dislike Arab's to the point that it is insulting for their horse to look or act like one? Give me a break Arab's are one of the most beauty horses there are. And yes, I have one and yes, I have beaten quarter horses and TB at horse shows so I guess not everybody including judges dislike them.

Piadosa
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:23 PM
My last horse was a small TB X Trakehner with a dished face, and I got thousands of comments on my "Arab". One h/j rider at a past barn was convinced she had to be an overgrown Welsh. :lol:

Current horse is a Arab X Oldenburg, and she is growng more Arab-y everyday. She has so many Arab traits it's rediculous. Very few people seem to pick up on it. They're always asking her breeding. I guess Arabs are fairly uncommon at h/j barns so people don't know one when they come across it!

Grataan
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:32 PM
Not at all to me. I breed and show Arabians so I guess I would know lol.

In one of the pics you could stretch to say MAYBE he looks like a 3/4 TB Anglo Arabian...but that's me trying to see "exactly where do these people find anything remotely Arabian-ish?"

I think the horse looks like a lovely and refined Thoroughbred. With an absolutely GORGEOUS head btw!

QM2
Oct. 8, 2009, 02:17 PM
No she doesn't. However, lets not forget that Tbs are descendants of Arabs.

Kyzteke
Oct. 8, 2009, 08:59 PM
No she doesn't. However, lets not forget that Tbs are descendants of Arabs.

Actually, not entirely. More recent research indicates that other "Eastern" stallions were used; such types like the Akhal-Teke or Turkomen horses, while the whole group was lumped together and labeled erroneously as "Arabs." Now ALL of this is conjecture and always will be, since most of those horses came with no history or even a verifiable pedigree.

But it is now thought by many experts that horses like the Byerly Turk were most likely Turkomen horses or of a similar strain. These horses were taller, more angular and faster than "typical" Arabs of the day...many of them actually look more like TBs, even today.

And of course, even the Arabs back then looked much different than the Arabs of today (at least to look at the paintings).

I LOVE Arabs and think that they are a cool breed -- personally, I think they are probably the best "generalist" breed out there in terms of intelligence, basic athletic ability and toughness -- but unfortunately (what I consider) the "best of the breed" are often no longer the ones being promoted as Arabs.

Honestly, I don't think that many people really know how great a good Arab can be, so don't be insulted when someone says your horse looks like an Arab...:D

Wanderluster
Oct. 8, 2009, 09:12 PM
No she doesn't but don't be offended. The dishy face, large eyed, tapered ears and swan neck that beautiful TBs have is a direct influence of Arabian blood. Trakehners have the same influence and Zeus an Arabian stallion is prevalent in some warmblood lines. She's just a great example of a pretty TB.

Blackberry Farm
Oct. 8, 2009, 09:45 PM
Nope. That's just silly.That's a TB. Why not just say to the folks that think he looks Arab,"Actually, he's Andalusian." I'd be curious, or mischievious! ;)

tBHj
Oct. 8, 2009, 09:49 PM
It's funny because her dam who is 3/4 TB 1/4 Percheron got called a Quarter Horse before. :lol:

sissyfoo
Oct. 8, 2009, 09:59 PM
In a word: No.

More words: not even a little, teeny-tiny bit. Nada. There is absolutely nothing about that horse that looks even remotely "arab-y." Whoever tells you otherwise is smoking something funny behind the barn.

Looks exactly like a TB...a very handsome TB, but he/she is ALL TB...zero Arab.

Agreed ^
She is very lovely, but having had Arabs AND TBs (and nearly everything in between) I don't see where there is confusion.

bumknees
Oct. 9, 2009, 06:42 AM
I dont think she looks like an arab.
I remember my first horse a 68' modle QH so not anywhere near 'refiend' as the TB's of the early 80's were... I have no idea how many people came up to me ( including some judges) and would complement me on a 'very cuite small TB." After a while I would just refer them to her butt... Nothing refined in her butt at all...

RegentLion
Oct. 9, 2009, 07:43 AM
I have a typical stock bred horse. He doesn't have a really refined head, either.... ;)

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v262/71/96/40600898/n40600898_32881742_3968.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2731/71/96/40600898/n40600898_33804576_1477209.jpg

One morning I was longing him at a show in the early morning and he got a bug up his butt and started prancing around like horses do when they get excited, head up, tail up, huge floaty suspended trot.... I could hear a mother on the sidelines say to her children "Ok that one is DEFINITELY AN ARAB!" :lol: I thought the whole thing was hilarious partly because he *did* look sort of stereotypically Arab-y at that point.

(I have nothing against Arabs, my hubby has one that is a ton of fun to trail ride. Really sensible on the trail. In the ring, she's miserable but oh boy does she love the trail.)

My philosophy when people say off the wall stuff (ANY off the wall stuff) is try to find the humor in it and just go on my merry way. In the end, my "Arab" did a great job at the show ;) and that was all that mattered to me!

imapepper
Oct. 9, 2009, 08:39 AM
It's funny because her dam who is 3/4 TB 1/4 Percheron got called a Quarter Horse before. :lol:

I have a QH that typically gets mistaken for a TB and he is NOT appendix ;) Even my vet once put TB on his coggins because I wasn't there and the BO didn't know what he was. They guessed TB. And I owned an Anglo Trak that everyone always commented on "what a cute little QH" The same vet put QH on his coggins that year :lol: And of course, my TB mare that is typically mistaken for an Arab. Here is a head shot of that mare. Her face is actually a bit swollen in this picture because it was snapped the day after she came home from surgery with a broken jaw. But I don't see Arab.

http://www.pbase.com/jmasin/image/89325304

I don't particularly see those traits in any of these horses. The only one that I do understand is the QH.....he is racing lines and tall. But when you watch him accelerate, he is a QH :lol: He definately has a QH butt :)

There is a good way to be mistaken for an Arab (pretty head so it must be an Arab) or a not so good way (tail in the air running around like an idiot so it must be an Arab --Pretty funny RegentLion :lol:). At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what the breed is.....unless you are breeding it ;)

ponies123
Oct. 9, 2009, 10:05 AM
WOW didn't know so many people that dislike Arab's to the point that it is insulting for their horse to look or act like one? Give me a break Arab's are one of the most beauty horses there are. And yes, I have one and yes, I have beaten quarter horses and TB at horse shows so I guess not everybody including judges dislike them.

I think a lot of people are laughing because the horse in the pictures really does not look remotely like an arabian. Anyway I agree arabians are beautiful in a "black stallion" kind of way, but 99% of them are not hunter/jumper horses, so yes I would be insulted if someone thought mine was an arabian because what I STRIVE for in a horse that is competitive in this discipline is basically a polar opposite of an arabian. No knee movement, head held low and stretched out, big bascule with tight knees when jumping, big stride, tail held low, etc. are not traits that you usually see in an arabian, but it is what you want in a hunter horse. Two different worlds.

Dapple Dawn Farm
Oct. 9, 2009, 11:29 AM
No way...but people ask me all the time if my TB is a quarter horse??:confused:

RugBug
Oct. 9, 2009, 11:59 AM
Zeus an Arabian stallion is prevalent in some warmblood lines.

Calling Zeus an Arabian isn't quite correct...don't you think? Or perhaps you are referring to another Zeus than the one I am thinking of?

Kyzteke
Oct. 9, 2009, 01:01 PM
Calling Zeus an Arabian isn't quite correct...don't you think? Or perhaps you are referring to another Zeus than the one I am thinking of?

RugBug -- thanks for noticing. I was going to say something myself, but it was late and I was tired.

The "Arabs" used in WB breeding were mainly Selle Francais or Anglo/Arabs, NOT what we Americans think of as an "Arab."

Zeus is listed in my reference book as a French Anglo Arab, which is is NOT a cross between an Arab & a TB, but an actual breed. Zeus was by another French AA named Arlequin whose pedigree for the first 2 generation was nothing but more French AA's (except one TB back in generation 2).

Zeus' dam was a Selle Francais, another French breed that traditionally can be no more than 1/3 Arab, as I recall.

Zeus himself was 17hh and a very famous producer of international jumpers. I'm looking at a pic of him right now, and believe me, he looks NOTHING like an Arab.

The closest I've come to seeing an actual Arab used in European WB breeding was Ramzes, a AA who founded his own line in something like FIVE different WB registries. His dam actually WAS an Arab, but a Shagya. However, there were some "regular" Arabs in her pedigree, as designated by the "ox" next to their names.

Ramzes sired such horses as Rigoletto, Raimond, Ramiro, Condus, Radetzky, and through them sprang such world class athletes as Mariano, Robin, Remus, Rembrandt, Ratina Z, Rubinstein....the list is almost endless.

Although Ramzes only sired 195 foals out of a less than sterling collection of mares (because this was right after WWII and many horses had died or been eaten), all but FIVE were active in sport, and ALL of those were in the upper 25% of national competition. The Germans have a saying "No Riding Horse Without his Blood."

World class Olympic dressage champions AND world class Olympic jumping champions...Ramzes could produce them both. I doubt we will ever see a stallion like him again.

And I'm sure all that was because of the Arab :winkgrin::yes::D

mckenna310
Oct. 9, 2009, 05:12 PM
not at all! she looks like a warmblood! she is lovely

TwoDreamRides
Oct. 9, 2009, 06:52 PM
Ooh! I'm the poster with Bobby's identical twin broodmare =] Her name is Ninety Deniro and she's given us two lovely foals so far!

http://timberridgebreeding.tripod.com/id15.html

On the other hand, my "little" [16.1 hand] Thoroughbred purchased from the same trainer as Ninety Deniro constantly gets comments that HE look like an Arabian! Either that, or a 2 year old filly. Haha.

I don't see the Arab part, but I do see the filly-ness of him.
http://timberridgebreeding.tripod.com/id18.html

Okay, maybe I see a bit of Arab-ness in these shots [shown with my Oldenburg]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30391769&l=82583ad73b&id=19801671
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30391775&l=96620bebd7&id=19801671
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30391777&l=6899d0f70e&id=19801671
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30391779&l=7a900a8616&id=19801671

tBHj
Oct. 9, 2009, 10:05 PM
Wow, your mare (and other posters gelding) look a lot like my mare!

Arn't solid bay's lovely?

billiebob
Oct. 9, 2009, 10:14 PM
Wow, your mare (and other posters gelding) look a lot like my mare!

Arn't solid bay's lovely?

If you two are ever in Devon in late May, I'm up for hunt teams (as soon as Bobby is doing courses higher than xrails :lol:)!

TwoDreamRides
Oct. 9, 2009, 10:39 PM
Well, Bobby's farther along than Day! She hasn't been ridden since she came off the track! Haha.

And, I guess I should fess up and point out that she does have a star .. as itsy bitsy as it may be ;)
http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/43679/2128995030097599294S600x600Q85.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2128995030097599294FNOYmY)

billiebob
Oct. 9, 2009, 10:50 PM
Well, Bobby's farther along than Day! She hasn't been ridden since she came off the track! Haha.

And, I guess I should fess up and point out that she does have a star .. as itsy bitsy as it may be ;)
http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/43679/2128995030097599294S600x600Q85.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2128995030097599294FNOYmY)

That's what Sharpies are for!!! :lol::lol::lol:

Wanderluster
Oct. 9, 2009, 11:13 PM
RugBug -- thanks for noticing. I was going to say something myself, but it was late and I was tired.

The "Arabs" used in WB breeding were mainly Selle Francais or Anglo/Arabs, NOT what we Americans think of as an "Arab."

Zeus is listed in my reference book as a French Anglo Arab, which is is NOT a cross between an Arab & a TB, but an actual breed. Zeus was by another French AA named Arlequin whose pedigree for the first 2 generation was nothing but more French AA's (except one TB back in generation 2).

Zeus' dam was a Selle Francais, another French breed that traditionally can be no more than 1/3 Arab, as I recall

Zeus himself was 17hh and a very famous producer of international jumpers. I'm looking at a pic of him right now, and believe me, he looks NOTHING like an Arab.

The closest I've come to seeing an actual Arab used in European WB breeding was Ramzes, a AA who founded his own line in something like FIVE different WB registries. His dam actually WAS an Arab, but a Shagya. However, there were some "regular" Arabs in her pedigree, as designated by the "ox" next to their names.

Ramzes sired such horses as Rigoletto, Raimond, Ramiro, Condus, Radetzky, and through them sprang such world class athletes as Mariano, Robin, Remus, Rembrandt, Ratina Z, Rubinstein....the list is almost endless.

Although Ramzes only sired 195 foals out of a less than sterling collection of mares (because this was right after WWII and many horses had died or been eaten), all but FIVE were active in sport, and ALL of those were in the upper 25% of national competition. The Germans have a saying "No Riding Horse Without his Blood."

World class Olympic dressage champions AND world class Olympic jumping champions...Ramzes could produce them both. I doubt we will ever see a stallion like him again.

And I'm sure all that was because of the Arab :winkgrin::yes::D
I like that you and Rug took the time to explain that, very informative.:)

tBHj
Oct. 9, 2009, 11:42 PM
Well, Bobby's farther along than Day! She hasn't been ridden since she came off the track! Haha.

And, I guess I should fess up and point out that she does have a star .. as itsy bitsy as it may be ;)
http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/43679/2128995030097599294S600x600Q85.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2128995030097599294FNOYmY)

My horse has about 20 white hairs on her forehead too. :lol:

TwoDreamRides
Oct. 10, 2009, 12:01 AM
So that means dear Bobby is in the minority. Whip out the white-out!

billiebob
Oct. 10, 2009, 09:15 PM
So that means dear Bobby is in the minority. Whip out the white-out!

:lol::lol: Will do!

Acertainsmile
Oct. 10, 2009, 09:26 PM
Unless they are comparing her to a Clydesdale...NO! :)

Vitriolic
Oct. 10, 2009, 09:43 PM
Tell the next person who assumes she is an Arab that she is a Percheron just to see their reaction. ;)

People assert they know the breed of a horse all the time. Of the last 100 TBs I have had here, 10 could pass as WB, Stdbd, or QH easily. :D

allanglos
Oct. 10, 2009, 10:50 PM
I think a lot of people are laughing because the horse in the pictures really does not look remotely like an arabian. Anyway I agree arabians are beautiful in a "black stallion" kind of way, but 99% of them are not hunter/jumper horses, so yes I would be insulted if someone thought mine was an arabian because what I STRIVE for in a horse that is competitive in this discipline is basically a polar opposite of an arabian. No knee movement, head held low and stretched out, big bascule with tight knees when jumping, big stride, tail held low, etc. are not traits that you usually see in an arabian, but it is what you want in a hunter horse. Two different worlds.

Your impression of Arabians I am sure is based on not seeing Arabians actually trained for hunters.

Here is a purebred Arabian 5 year old stallion from a show two weeks ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W852hxuxVy8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkv46xFoGOw

And here is an Anglo Arabian stallion (50% Arab), age 6, with an amateur rider on him for only the second time (the first was 6 months earlier):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJApD1wBDsE

ponies123
Oct. 12, 2009, 09:02 AM
Your impression of Arabians I am sure is based on not seeing Arabians actually trained for hunters.

Here is a purebred Arabian 5 year old stallion from a show two weeks ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W852hxuxVy8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkv46xFoGOw

And here is an Anglo Arabian stallion (50% Arab), age 6, with an amateur rider on him for only the second time (the first was 6 months earlier):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJApD1wBDsE

Well I did say "usually" not traits found in an Arabian. I never said that no Arabian would be up for the task, but that the majority are better suited to other disciplines.

The video quality of the videos was not great so I could not see a lot, but the second horse still jumps flat, IMO. He is a cute guy and probably would do ok at the shows, but although he gets his knees up and even he seems to invert his back and jump flat.
The first horse I think I like somewhat better, but his video is much harder for me to see anything. Still he is competing at a SHN show, which looking it up, is an Arabian associated show? Has he competed in a USEF hunter show? That is what I would judge hunter-ring success by, because that is the primary organization. And although he is a nice horse I'm not sure he'd have the same success against warmbloods, etc. in the open hunter ring.

And I have actually known some Arabians trained for the hunter ring. I have a friend who loves them to pieces and has shown a couple in the children's hunters. Not my cup of tea, but she had some success at 2'6 and 3' with them.

Roulett
Oct. 12, 2009, 05:40 PM
Well I did say "usually" not traits found in an Arabian. I never said that no Arabian would be up for the task, but that the majority are better suited to other disciplines.

The video quality of the videos was not great so I could not see a lot, but the second horse still jumps flat, IMO. He is a cute guy and probably would do ok at the shows, but although he gets his knees up and even he seems to invert his back and jump flat.
The first horse I think I like somewhat better, but his video is much harder for me to see anything. Still he is competing at a SHN show, which looking it up, is an Arabian associated show? Has he competed in a USEF hunter show? That is what I would judge hunter-ring success by, because that is the primary organization. And although he is a nice horse I'm not sure he'd have the same success against warmbloods, etc. in the open hunter ring.

And I have actually known some Arabians trained for the hunter ring. I have a friend who loves them to pieces and has shown a couple in the children's hunters. Not my cup of tea, but she had some success at 2'6 and 3' with them.

The first horse is Oration - he's from Arabian racing lines. I doubt this horse has been shown on the open circuit but the rider sure has --- with WB's

Oration was ridden to his championships by Michael Desiderio of Chester, NJ. Some
of you may know him from the east coast hunter shows and some may know him as the young man who assisted George Morris last year with a few of his west coast clinics. Michael rode Oration to a gaggle championships at the 2009 Arabian Sport Horse National show at the Kentucky Horse park. I'm not sure what Ricci Desiderio has in mind for this stallion but keeping him within his own breed shows may be more profitable --- I suspect this horse will continue his winning ways on the Arabian circuits.



As to the OP's question - her mare is lovely and looks like a TB me.

allanglos
Oct. 12, 2009, 10:19 PM
The video quality of the videos was not great so I could not see a lot, but the second horse still jumps flat, IMO. He is a cute guy and probably would do ok at the shows, but although he gets his knees up and even he seems to invert his back and jump flat.
The first horse I think I like somewhat better, but his video is much harder for me to see anything. Still he is competing at a SHN show, which looking it up, is an Arabian associated show? Has he competed in a USEF hunter show? That is what I would judge hunter-ring success by, because that is the primary organization. And although he is a nice horse I'm not sure he'd have the same success against warmbloods, etc. in the open hunter ring.




Jumps flat and inverted? Oh good grief. He is so round, he throws his rider out of the tack. His trainer said she even had to get used to his nice round jump.

But then again, you don't seem to be able to determine if a horse is any good unless they are at the "correct" show? I did not say anything about how this horse placed or where he was, as it is irrelevant. A nice horse is a nice horse, regardless of where he is. But, FYI, although this is his first year over fences, he has shown very successfully in open hunter shows. To be dismissive simply because of the name of the show reveals nothing of the horse, but a lot about your ability to evaluate quality.

pwrpfflynn
Oct. 13, 2009, 10:26 AM
Thank you Allanglos. Very well said. I was told that my 1/2 Arab/NSH would never beat any TB or QH but if I just wanted to have fun go ahead and get him. That was all before they even saw him or his ability to jump. So far he has beaten several TB & QH and now my friends told me he looks like a warmblood except of course for the tail : ) My horse jumps very round as well and since I am new to jumping that has caused a little problem for me to stay on but I am learning. It is nice that he won't ever have any problem jumping higher but will I? We both just started jumping in May.

RugBug
Oct. 13, 2009, 11:08 AM
Jumps flat and inverted? Oh good grief. He is so round, he throws his rider out of the tack. His trainer said she even had to get used to his nice round jump.
.

I disagree. While the horse has a nice style, etc...he's doesn't jump all that "round." I'd wager that if his rider is getting thrown out of the tack, it's because she wasn't used to his jump, not because he's cracking his back and tossing her around. He definitely jumps better than many Arabians, though.

However, he's cute enough and if the length of stride is there, I'm sure he could do okay at USHJA shows. He's got a nice canter. :yes:

While a nice horse is a nice horse, using SHN shows to say your horse is a successful hunter type isn't quite fair. When they are competing like to like, success is measured on that scale. It's like saying a QH hunter is successful A circuit horse because it wins at Congress. While it could/may successful at A's, only A results prove success in that arena.

RhettsChildrensHunter<3
Oct. 13, 2009, 08:04 PM
i dont see it but she is gorgeous! love her head!

allanglos
Oct. 13, 2009, 09:48 PM
While a nice horse is a nice horse, using SHN shows to say your horse is a successful hunter type isn't quite fair. When they are competing like to like, success is measured on that scale. It's like saying a QH hunter is successful A circuit horse because it wins at Congress. While it could/may successful at A's, only A results prove success in that arena.

I didn't say a word about SHN, nor did I say because of how he did at the show, therefore he must be good. All I did was post a video and let that speak for itself.

RugBug
Oct. 13, 2009, 11:07 PM
I didn't say a word about SHN, nor did I say because of how he did at the show, therefore he must be good. All I did was post a video and let that speak for itself.

You blasted a poster because she pointed out that the video was from SHN shows. You implied with your good horse is a good horse statement that ability/talent at one venue meant there would be ability/talent at another venue. See here:



But then again, you don't seem to be able to determine if a horse is any good unless they are at the "correct" show? I did not say anything about how this horse placed or where he was, as it is irrelevant. A nice horse is a nice horse, regardless of where he is. But, FYI, although this is his first year over fences, he has shown very successfully in open hunter shows. To be dismissive simply because of the name of the show reveals nothing of the horse, but a lot about your ability to evaluate quality.

I don't want to turn this into an "Arabs-aren't-suited-for-the-hunter-ring" thing. I had the hugest crush on an pony-sized Arab as a kid. He did the 3' hunters with his owner.... She was WAY too tall for him and they still managed to win their fair share at the As around here. But he was the exception...and did jump a little flat, to tell you the truth.

Ponies123 may not have worded her post tactfully, but it's not like what she posted was untrue. The majority of Arabs, even ones successful in hunter classes at Arab shows, are not going to be successful at what most on this board refer to as 'hunters.'