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View Full Version : Looking for info on WB gelding "Riptide" from Ocala-area



TheJenners
Oct. 6, 2009, 05:06 PM
I'm just looking for information for my Mom on a horse she just acquired.

He was purchased from a woman named Mary Shepard who is approximately 55-60 years old, who is in/from/had a farm in the Ocala, FL, area. She hit a financial snag, just like a lot of us, and sold this horse in order to keep a couple others UTD on their board bills. My Mom was told he was ~8 years old and a son of a stallion who (come to find out) is only 10 and didn't come to the US until 2004.

The horse is a dark bay gelding, 16.2 or 16.3 hh, two hind socks and a star w/ snip. They were calling him Riptide. His teeth show him to be about five, no less than four.

She's looking for information on the horse now, since it seems what she was told wasn't true or completely true. However, the former owner seems to be screening her calls and not returning VMs, and not responding to emails. My guess is she had great communication with the seller up until the check was signed, and now nada.

If the horse sounds familiar to anyone, or the old owner, please feel free to PM me. TIA.

maxxtrot
Oct. 6, 2009, 07:31 PM
wish i could help you. i will ask around as i know mary. i did not know she still had any horses though. and she leased that farm in ocala, not sure where she is now.who is the stallion?

TheJenners
Oct. 7, 2009, 02:16 AM
Thanks for asking around.

naters
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:34 AM
I'm just looking for information for my Mom on a horse she just acquired.

He was purchased from a woman named Mary Shepard who is approximately 55-60 years old, who is in/from/had a farm in the Ocala, FL, area. She hit a financial snag, just like a lot of us, and sold this horse in order to keep a couple others UTD on their board bills. My Mom was told he was ~8 years old and a son of a stallion who (come to find out) is only 10 and didn't come to the US until 2004.

The horse is a dark bay gelding, 16.2 or 16.3 hh, two hind socks and a star w/ snip. They were calling him Riptide. His teeth show him to be about five, no less than four.

She's looking for information on the horse now, since it seems what she was told wasn't true or completely true. However, the former owner seems to be screening her calls and not returning VMs, and not responding to emails. My guess is she had great communication with the seller up until the check was signed, and now nada.

If the horse sounds familiar to anyone, or the old owner, please feel free to PM me. TIA.


Is it a TB? Any tattoo? You can call the FTBOA and ask them (for a small fee) do do some pedigree inquiries based on his name....?

Jumphigh83
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:54 AM
WHAT?????Someone lied about the age/experience/background of a sale horse??? NO!!! :winkgrin::winkgrin::lol:

Lkramer
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:22 AM
Crap, I am trying to remember DETAILS, but I was going to go look at him when he was in New York. He was a little hot, and did the level 5s and 6s right? They were selling him for $15k.

TheJenners
Oct. 7, 2009, 01:44 PM
Is that a joke? First post clearly states Florida.

naters, she didn't mention a tattoo and mentioned his teeth, so my guess would be he does not have one. She was told he was a Oldenburg/Hanoverian.

vxf111
Oct. 7, 2009, 01:46 PM
Why would Lkramer's post be a joke? Someone in Florida might send a sale horse to be tried/shown at a sale barn in NY. If you think they lied about other details, perhaps they lied about where the horse has previously lived/shown/been for sale.

Texan By The Grace Of God
Oct. 7, 2009, 03:05 PM
Wouldn't a vet have caught the age discrepency during the ppe?

TheJenners
Oct. 7, 2009, 04:03 PM
You're right, sorry. The all caps on "details" made me think lkramer was being sarcastic...blame lack of sleep, I had just gotten up from a three hour nap after a 15 hour shift.

I'm not sure what level 5 and 6s is, I'm rather removed from hunters. I'm only posting here because that's where he came from. My impression from what she told me is that he is greenish and over-bitted, but otherwise nice. She said he was plodder though, which caused her some confusion to the severe bit as he needed go, not whoa, so I guess he isn't hot?? Though with some level of deception already, he might be drugged. Let me see if I can get a picture.

vxf111
Oct. 7, 2009, 04:12 PM
I'm not sure what level 5 and 6s is.


Jumpers. And biggish ones too.

cloudyandcallie
Oct. 7, 2009, 04:35 PM
Is he branded? (Usually left flank.) and if so, what is the brand?

And do ask your mother to check for a lip tattoo to eliminate ottb.

TheJenners
Oct. 7, 2009, 04:42 PM
Thanks. I couldn't remember if numbers got bigger or smaller the larger the fences got. No, definitely NOT this horse; my impression is he's green.

She didn't mention a brand. Or a tattoo. I'll try to reach her later and ask if she checked for a tattoo.

vxf111
Oct. 7, 2009, 05:04 PM
Level 5/6 jumpers would be quite a lot (though I suppose not unheard of) for a 4/5 year old. I am guessing "Riptide" is a common enough name that the one Lkramer tried isn't the same horse. Posting pictures would help a lot. Did you search USEF?

cloudyandcallie
Oct. 7, 2009, 05:07 PM
Thanks. I couldn't remember if numbers got bigger or smaller the larger the fences got. No, definitely NOT this horse; my impression is he's green.

She didn't mention a brand. Or a tattoo. I'll try to reach her later and ask if she checked for a tattoo.

Wet the left flank. Sometimes a brand does not show up till horse is sweaty, or wet, or very cold (when the hairs stand straight out).

Lkramer
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:59 PM
Sorry, not a joke. Horses are capable of being transported within 24 hours. I was going to look at a bay horse named Riptide on my way back from shopping at Frank Maddens barn, but they said he was sold. That was about 9 months ago. I am pretty sure he was selling as a thoroughbred. I though it was very fishy that a level 5 jumper would be selling for $15k, but I had to take a look. Anyway, that is all probably super unuseful because it is probably not even the same horse. It is a pretty cool name, there could be several! Did you check his show record on USEF?

TheJenners
Oct. 8, 2009, 02:40 PM
OK. I called; he does not have a lip tattoo or any brand, and seeing as she lives in the South, I'm sure he has gotten sweaty and/or hosed. She said he is built like a WB not a TB.

Lieb Schon
Oct. 8, 2009, 06:28 PM
I know you are trying to help out someone long distance, but this is tough. First, get some good pictures. Second, make sure you've got the names straight. Third, tell us how the horse was represented initially, and what problems/contradictions have since shown up. It sounds like your (mom?) has bought an unpapered gelding. Without more information than that, he truly can't be represented as anything but "we think..." and judged by his merit from his performance in whatever discipline he shows in. In other words until you find out the name of his sire, he is a grade horse of unknown registry, not "maybe" an Oldenburg/Hanoverian. However, if you can get that sire's name, you can take a hair sample from the horse and send it to the suspected registry for a DNA test, which will tell you definitely whether they are related. From there you can contact the owner/manager of the stud and find out who registered foals for his suspected birth year/s and maybe get a dam name and registry.
It sounds like you really just want info about the horses changed behaviour, so if that's all, then give us the details. Try not to be frustrated while all try to help you.:winkgrin:

TPF
Oct. 8, 2009, 07:51 PM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but many people have had that problem with Mary Shepard - once the money has cleared all communications stops.
I unfortunately know this from experience - good luck in your search for information but she may have changed its name, or made it all up - I hope you get some answers. Maybe like someone else said a picture would help.
Did your mom go to the farm Mary leased on Hwy 225A in Ocala or somewhere else? Maybe the horse was not at her farm - if you knew the name/location of the farm where it was stabled someone might know another contact person.

TheJenners
Oct. 8, 2009, 09:10 PM
Lieb Schon - I think she's send me pictures...

Like I said, here's what I know: he is from FL, owned by Mary Shepard. The horse was sent to a farm near my Mom in Alabama to be with her daughter (I think) but then had to sold. She was told the horse was an 8 yo Oldenburg/Hanoverian by the stallion CA Chablis. He is apparently none of those. Now we're just trying to find out WHO is he.

fancyfooted
Oct. 9, 2009, 09:21 AM
Ah well, good luck finding out who he is! Unless you get really, really lucky and someone happens to recognize him from a picture, you'll probably never know his history. From what TPF says, it sounds like your mom is just one more in a long line of scammed customers!

Trees4U
Oct. 9, 2009, 11:34 AM
Is your mom unhappy with the horse? Does she think she paid too much now that she suspects the horse might not have the pedigree or the experience that she was told he had?
I am with Texan- did a vet not catch anything on a ppe? Did he vet out acceptably? Did your mom ride him there and now he's totally different?

lots of questions..:eek:

TheJenners
Oct. 9, 2009, 01:42 PM
Trees4U - I don't think she's unhappy with the horse. I don't know what she paid, but from what she told me it was a bargain because financial trouble + green gelding = low price.

I have no idea if a PPE was done or not.

fancyfooted
Oct. 9, 2009, 01:52 PM
Okay, so just to clarify for everyone else, let me see if I have this right:

Your mom is happy with the horse overall, just wants to find out where he ACTUALLY came from so she has a better idea of what she's got. Is this correct?

All things considered, if he's sound and sane, and was a good price, she may have ended up ahead in this case, which would be great to hear for once!

TheJenners
Oct. 9, 2009, 02:14 PM
Right!! :)

fancyfooted
Oct. 9, 2009, 05:39 PM
Well that's really good news! I'm glad to hear the horse turned out to be a good deal in spite of not knowing his past :yes: Any word on pictures from your mom? If you posted some, people from the Ocala area might be better able to tell you some things I bet :)

DancingQueen
Oct. 10, 2009, 12:17 AM
Well he could be well bred still and that would certainly be fun to know even if he is a gelding. If he's born in the US he would probably not be branded even if he is in fact of hannoverian or oldenburger decent.
Knowing that he is quite a bit younger then 8 is definitively also good.

I would also be curious if I owned the horse. Does she know the name of the previous owners or just the agent? Perhaps just doing a search on the owners showresults or registered horses woulg give her a lead? It is of course very possible that they were also duped! There should be a way to trace this horse even if it takes some detective work. Trying to find out what horses are registered to the seller and where they came from before then could be a lead perhaps.
Selling horses is a very unregulated business over here though. I've imported quite a few and all I had to do to register was go online and state what ever information I had. They all came with an FEI passport but those are now collectiing dust somewhere in a drawer for sure. I could've said anything I wanted on the form and gotten away with it. Once it says so on a registration I'm sure most buyers would take the information at face value!

I know back home foals that are born from AI must be bloodtyped to make sure the father is the correct one before getting registered. It could very well be that there's a register somewhere in Europe by now and a simple bloodtest could determin the heritage of the horse. I don't know but it would certainly seem worth while making a few calls to somebody in a breed association or perhaps posting in the breeding forum to find out?

Good luck both to your mom with her new horse and in your search to find out who he is!

TheJenners
Oct. 10, 2009, 12:31 AM
Mary Shepard, from FL, was the owner. That is who the check was written to, she wrote it out herself. My guess is there was also a bill of sale, because my folks also have her DOB and FL driver's licence number.

maxxtrot
Oct. 10, 2009, 10:22 AM
please do not assume that since you wrote the check to mary that she owned the horse. not always the case. i have seen it done all kinds of ways.she could have put on a huge comm. or had to pay someone else and written the owners another check from her account, i do hope you find out who and where this horse came from. i am still asking around down here for you.

stfatpony
Oct. 10, 2009, 10:44 AM
Well he could be well bred still and that would certainly be fun to know even if he is a gelding. If he's born in the US he would probably not be branded even if he is in fact of hannoverian or oldenburger decent.

Not necessarily. I have owned many USA born warmbloods, and the majority of them have been branded - Oldenburg or Holsteiner.

meupatdoes
Oct. 10, 2009, 11:56 AM
Mary Shepard, from FL, was the owner. That is who the check was written to, she wrote it out herself.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

You crack me up.
:lol:

Glad the horse turned out nice, though!

TPF
Oct. 10, 2009, 03:08 PM
Mary Shepard's daughter's name is Brenna Watson - she does live in Alabama - not sure if that helps. She is actually a very nice person (despite her mother) so if you could get back in touch with her she might try to help you more. Please as was said before - do not assume that Mary owned the horse - I would be fairly certain she did not. She always has buyers pay her and then she writes a check to the seller.

cloudyandcallie
Oct. 10, 2009, 03:38 PM
Pretty common to write out check to intermediary/agent and then he/she pays the seller, taking out a commission of course. I did that in Florida even though I had dealt with and met the seller when he brought over my boy for try out.......

As long as this Mary had the agency to sell the horse, but from what people are saying, now I worry about that.

TheJenners
Oct. 10, 2009, 05:02 PM
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

You crack me up.
:lol:

Glad the horse turned out nice, though!
Uh. Yeah, ok.

TPF: right, the horse was up here with the daughter. I refer to the daughter in a previous thread from sport horse( http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=226301 ). She had the horse at a farm only a few miles from my Mom's place. So I suspect it was indeed Mary's horse and she wasn't an agent.

maxxtrot
Oct. 10, 2009, 06:45 PM
i know for a fact that mary has had sale horses that were not hers up with her daughter, so still might not have been her horse, sorry.

JRG
Oct. 10, 2009, 07:17 PM
Just a note, if you do a horse search for "Riptide" with the USEF a few come up but none with the Mary person's name attached.

TheJenners
Oct. 10, 2009, 07:43 PM
She has more than one horse up there?? Interesting. I guess my Mom got a bigger run-around than she thought. maxxtrot, you seem to know her well; does she normally drop communications like this?

Still waiting on a picture from my Mom. She just lost one of her JRT in a barn accident, so she's probably not up to emailing right now.

maxxtrot
Oct. 10, 2009, 07:51 PM
jenners- i don't know if she has more than one up there now, but she does business with her daughter. i have known mary for quite awhile. tried to do some business with her, but just not my type of agent.just difficult. i really can't tell you about the after comm. cause i never sold or bought anything from her. but i have heard all this before.i really do hope the horse is what it was supposed to be and that your mom has a good time with him.and when you get those pix, let me know, i will be more than happy to take a peek and see if i know him.

meupatdoes
Oct. 10, 2009, 11:09 PM
Pretty common to write out check to intermediary/agent and then he/she pays the seller, taking out a commission of course. I did that in Florida even though I had dealt with and met the seller when he brought over my boy for try out.......

As long as this Mary had the agency to sell the horse, but from what people are saying, now I worry about that.

It is common, but I would NEVER accept that deal as a seller.

Waaaaayyyy too easy for the agent to take a check for $15k and pass along $8k to me. To throw out some very friendly low numbers.


If somebody wants a commission I am happy to pay it, but the full check comes to me and then **I** cut a check from that. If for some reason this is a problem they were probably planning to take more commission than they wanted me to know about all along.

TheJenners
Oct. 11, 2009, 11:52 PM
OK, my Dad sent up some pictures today. He (the horse, not my Dad) has two hind socks, and the one not showing is more of an anklet, ends before the fetlock. I can't tell if that white mark on the left side of his neck is an old scar, a cowlick or something left by the scraper, but it was in all the pictures of his left side. Or maybe, since he's The New Guy, a bite mark...

Picture 1 (http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg280/ReplacementUsername/4191.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg280/ReplacementUsername/100_17071.jpg)
Picture 3 (http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg280/ReplacementUsername/100_17081.jpg)
Picture 4 (http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg280/ReplacementUsername/100_17101.jpg)

Also, for info, my Dad's about 6'1'' or 6'2''. He certainly looks like a friendly horsie!!

Texan By The Grace Of God
Oct. 12, 2009, 04:02 AM
WOW! He is a seriously good looking boy, whoever he turns out to be!

TheJenners
Oct. 12, 2009, 07:03 PM
Yeah, that's why they're hoping someone will recognize him.

florida foxhunter
Oct. 12, 2009, 08:44 PM
I agree, he's a nice looking horse. Hopefully, whoever he is, he'll have a chance to be great (or started or perhaps restarted right!).......and he'll turn out to be a wonderful horse for your Mom!
However, do remember.......there is a LAW in Florida now that states a horse has to have a bill of sale if the price was $10k or more....and the price, the seller and buyer and all commissions paid have to be on a bill of sale......or it is fraud.....punishable with fines and jail time if proven!!!
I hope your situation has happy endings for all!

Sugarbrook
Oct. 12, 2009, 09:49 PM
Just for my own information........who enforces this law? Meaning, who would know?

Dressage Dreamer
Oct. 13, 2009, 12:38 AM
Any chance you could send a pic and email to any chiropractors, braiders,vets, farriers in the areas he may have been that could have worked on him? You may be able to find out through the grape vine from farriers in paticular who may have worked on the horse (or whoever had the horse). I had to do that once to track down some very useful info on a horse I was looking at to purchase once. I found out info because of a paticular way the farrier had shod the horse in question, another was able to identify where the horse had been via where the farrier visited :D

TheJenners
Oct. 13, 2009, 03:45 AM
Wow, great idea DD. I'll pass it along.

As for the FL law above....heh, they didn't pay that much for him. Not in this market, for a gelding with no papers and green? Maybe if he was a Gypsy Vanner. ;)