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luv2piaffe
Oct. 5, 2009, 07:55 PM
d

slc2
Oct. 5, 2009, 08:12 PM
Are you always this fun?

Sister Margarita
Oct. 5, 2009, 08:15 PM
Are you always this fun?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

JackSprats Mom
Oct. 5, 2009, 08:28 PM
Are you always this fun?


Hey obviously the OP needed to vent, sounds like a nightmare show just based on the rain and footing. Whether the unfair advatage was real or percieved it can be frustrating. Sometimes you just need to whine and bitch a little and hope poeple understand. Its alot of money to spend to feel cheated.

Heck I know how the OP feels, I compete against a PSG (confirmed/shows) who shows at TL with his AA owner. Both horse and owner could easily do 1st/2nd and so its frustrating and no shock when they win...kinda takes the excitement out of it, but hey I go for the scores and the comments to see what I need to work on.

slc2
Oct. 5, 2009, 08:35 PM
I just talked to someone who was there who had a riot. But she won.

wbhorseusa
Oct. 5, 2009, 08:40 PM
Somehow, I don't even know where Region 2 is, but I have a certain suspicion I have an idea who the person she is referring to is.

The judging in this country is a joke. A bunch of sheeple/judges.

scribbles
Oct. 5, 2009, 08:40 PM
It really stinks when people compete two levels below where they belong, i had a friend going training level getting in the mid 80s on her upper level horse that she could do all of the upper level movements on...

slc2
Oct. 5, 2009, 08:41 PM
Are you ALL always this fun? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

narcisco
Oct. 5, 2009, 08:43 PM
Well, that wasn't that hard to figure out. Holy camoly, did she ever have a great show! Champion at every level from training through PSG. You weren't kidding. She must have a slew of really nice horses to campaign. And this is the number one YR in the nation. So, you were beaten by the best in the nation.

I think you just hang it up in those cases and know you can't win. Hopefully you're showing for other reasons than winning. A little sportsmanship can go a long way.

Pony Fixer
Oct. 5, 2009, 08:49 PM
Actuallly, she did come in 2nd place in the First level championship. And 1st place. ;)

luv2piaffe
Oct. 5, 2009, 09:04 PM
Well again she is competing against kids and students that dont ride for a living. That is her JOB, and it has been her job for a LONG time. I go to school, and when Im doing calculus she's riding horses! She should be in the open division, and I think the rules need to change. If your a trainer you ride open, it shouldnt matter how old you are.

slc2
Oct. 5, 2009, 09:07 PM
"she did come in first place"

so...she wanted to win more times?

goeslikestink
Oct. 5, 2009, 09:18 PM
Ok so I was at the USDF region 2 dressage championships this weekend at it was it was the worst show I have ever been to!

First the weather was just terrible and I there is nothing you can do about that,

Second, the rings were trashed because the grounds didnt have adequate draining systems in the rings. The workers were raking the rings by hand, but they only raked the upper level championship rings they didnt do one thing with the lower level rings. My championship ring was also in the showgrounds usual parking lot right next to the road. THey also did not even have enough judges boxes to put in that ring, so instead they set up a tent and that was the judges box at E.

Third, a certain group of riders who won just about every class they entered were talking to the judges the whole weekend!!!! Im not just talking about a hi either, im talking about full conversations. And no it wasnt after they were done showing infront of them it was the WHOLE weekend. I was always told not to talk to the judges untill after the show was done!

Fourth, a certain young rider who is actually a trainer won every freaking championship class she was in. EVERY class by at least 5%. She was also there giving lessons for $75. None of the other young riders even had a chance. I saw most of her rides too, and a few especially one did not deserve the score that was given. In one instance one judge gave her a 20point difference higher then the other judge. I really think they were picking favorites at this one.

And Last, after my ride i was looking at my score on the computer and the judge for my class came up and asked me to click on that certain rider i was talking about and said "That was the best ride I have ever seen, I have never given so many 9's before BLAH BLAH BLAHHHH" She knew i was in that class because she asked me if I was in the class before she told me to click on that rider. I was so pissed when she said that to me!, if she had an opinion she should have kept that to herself! WHen i was leaving the office i said "yeah she should have gotten that score she is a trainer!"

Anyway I was just pissed about the show and ALOT of others were as well, I have never heard so many people complaining about all the same stuff i just said at a show! it was really just ridiculous!!


matey she no more better than you if she has to enter the same class if she a trianer worth alight she wouldnt be there

Carol O
Oct. 5, 2009, 10:18 PM
Sour grapes.

enjoytheride
Oct. 5, 2009, 10:27 PM
So why doesn't she show in the open division then since she's a trainer? I'm not knocking her for winning, she had the better horses it seemed.

Selleconn
Oct. 5, 2009, 10:30 PM
Well again she is competing against kids and students that dont ride for a living. That is her JOB, and it has been her job for a LONG time. I go to school, and when Im doing calculus she's riding horses! She should be in the open division, and I think the rules need to change. If your a trainer you ride open, it shouldnt matter how old you are.

Maybe one day she'll wish she was better at calculus--but more than likely, she'll continue WORKING towards becoming a top rider. Life is nothing but a series of priorities and decisions. Everybody has choices and sacrifices to make. It is certainly not easy to live the life of a professional horse person, but even people without the financial means to do so have been internationally successful through hard work and sacrifice. Most of us have to determine the balance between a "real" job (and a social life, a normal schedule, etc.) and more horse time at some point. Choose your path and go forward--don't criticize others who are already doing so.

As for separating the divisions between "professional" juniors and "amateur" juniors, I'll refer to an old Bruce Davidson quote about doing the same in eventing competitions "horray for you, you are the best of the worst."

JackSprats Mom
Oct. 5, 2009, 10:36 PM
As for separating the divisions between "professional" juniors and "amateur" juniors, I'll refer to an old Bruce Davidson quote about doing the same in eventing competitions "horray for you, you are the best of the worst."

OMG that is a great quote!!:lol:

johnnysauntie
Oct. 5, 2009, 10:52 PM
I can't comment on any of the political stuff but it is a wonder to me that Lamplight hosts the caliber of shows it does year after year even though the place is notorious for disastrous footing when it rains - which it does here, a lot.

I'm just sick for all those folks who worked hard all year long and then had to scratch because of conditions.

To the OP - congrats on qualifying, and better luck next year.

Sillypony
Oct. 5, 2009, 10:53 PM
I think the problem here is that she shows in pretty much every level, every year, and wins, basically in her backyard, at everything, every year. It can be very discouraging as she is quite honestly pretty unbeatable and you really don't seem to stand a chance. And come on, I think the average JR/YR are going to be a BIT more competitive then most of you all. They want to win, and lead the victory gallop and all that. So yes, I can I can see where the OP is going. I would be a bit upset as well.

Mach Two
Oct. 5, 2009, 10:56 PM
As for separating the divisions between "professional" juniors and "amateur" juniors, I'll refer to an old Bruce Davidson quote about doing the same in eventing competitions "horray for you, you are the best of the worst."

My favorite Bruce quote, by far!

rothmpp
Oct. 5, 2009, 11:11 PM
OP - comfort yourself in the knowledge that she'll age out eventually and then will have to ride in the open division. I could be wrong - but might this be her last year as a YR?

The one thing about horses - there's always going to be someone with more time, money, or better horses than you. Sometimes it does just have to be about the journey.

RE: Lamplight... I qualified this year and decided to pass on championships right before closing. Considering the weather, I'm beyond happy that I saved the money for next year.

Alpha Mare
Oct. 5, 2009, 11:16 PM
Some time ago I looked at the up and coming riders and noticed a pattern - the majority are children of professional trainers. not 100%, but many. They get a lesson every ride, and maybe for several hours a day on several horses and the rest of us just can't compete with that level of training.

Such is life - so now what to do? Try for your 'personal best' in your tests and take that satisfaction. Or take lessons from the winner.

First string quarterback, concertmaster, valedictorian, there are many situations where only one person is going to get that accolade, and the rest of us are outclassed in that effort - by a lot or a little. and it's hard when it's 'your year' but it's someone else's year too, and they get the #1 position.

Sorry you had such a bad time at the show. I would focus on your achievement to qualify and what were the good points of your ride - you can't 'fix' the other rider.

Gry2Yng
Oct. 5, 2009, 11:20 PM
Sucks. Sorry. Its okay to vent.

Applecore
Oct. 5, 2009, 11:20 PM
In all but 1st and 3rd levels, there was another Jr/YR within 1% of her winning score. Impressive that she WON them all (:eek:) but it's not like she's completely outclassing the other Jr/YRs - it looks like Reg 2 has some very good ones!

I can imagine that its frustrating to see a single person win all the time, but Jr/YR really is intended to be an age-only classification. LOTS of kids earn 'pocket money' doing something that would disqualify them from being an amatuer, but isn't really a business. I'd hate to take that option away - kids ought to work (hard!) around horses, ride anything people will let them on, and if they can earn a bit of $, more power to them. I think it'd be really dumb to have a 'my parents pay for everything' division of jr/yr (yes, some kids work non-horse or non-riding/teaching jobs, but think of the ratio...). And the NAYRC is SUPPOSED to be a funnel for the next generation of top professionals (I say this as someone who earned some $ teaching up-down lessons as a 1st/2nd level Jr/YR but never won ANYthing to make people upset with me :winkgrin:). You might suggest that your GMO have a Jr and a YR division, if entries warrant - our GMO championships is set up that way. A lot of our older YRs have fledgling horse businesses on the side. "Professional" Jr/YRs are not uncommon at all (and yes, I've seen a kid on a pony beat one of them!)

She's aging out this year, I believe. So I hope this periodic whining will stop... (although it looks like she'd have been top 5 in all the open classes too...so maybe not). She's a nice rider with nice horses and learning to become a professional the best way possible - riding ALL THE TIME. As an aside, I haven't shown in the area ever and don't know her/her family personally at all. Saw her ride one time, so maybe I'm wrong that she's a nice rider, but for those 6 minutes she looked good, and her scores would say the same.

Mach Two
Oct. 5, 2009, 11:24 PM
I think the problem here is that she shows in pretty much every level, every year, and wins, basically in her backyard, at everything, every year. It can be very discouraging as she is quite honestly pretty unbeatable and you really don't seem to stand a chance. And come on, I think the average JR/YR are going to be a BIT more competitive then most of you all. They want to win, and lead the victory gallop and all that. So yes, I can I can see where the OP is going. I would be a bit upset as well.

Hmmm. I understand your point, but every body DOES have a chance...they just have to get better. If you say a winner from the past can't ride any more, then who wins? The best, or the next best? I think a lot of shows are lost in the warm up ring through "the great mind game". We've all been there...see a winning rider, and say to ourselves "I'll NEVER be able to beat HER" and guess what happens? Who wants to win where the top competitions is taken out?

slc2
Oct. 6, 2009, 02:12 AM
"She is unbeatable"

It stinks when people cheat by riding all the time on really good horses with lots of very demanding instruction, and working their tail off.

Mach Two
Oct. 6, 2009, 02:19 AM
"She is unbeatable"

It stinks when people cheat by riding all the time on really good horses with lots of very demanding instruction, and working their tail off.

:lol::lol: You hit that one right on the head! Yeah, shame on them. They should quit doing that:lol:

Mardi
Oct. 6, 2009, 02:19 AM
What did the TD say when you told her about your concerns regarding the judging ?

And what did the show manager say when you talked with him/her ?

slc2
Oct. 6, 2009, 03:11 AM
"And what did the TD say when you complained of the judging"

Oh to see the tired, wet, cold, hard working, underpaid, patient TD struggling to find politically correct terminology for just such a situation, something along the lines of 'Buckle up, Buttercup'. At least you're moving around, and can go to the hotel when you're done riding.

When you go to a horse show, you unknowingly sign an agreement with a Higher Power. This is not a contract in the sense that, if you sign it, you are guaranteed a blue ribbon. The Higher Power does not offer guarantees, even for prayers fervently offered wishing to smote one's oh so inconsiderate fellow riders, and the answer to 'Why????' is often, 'Why not?'

The agreement says this:

"When you go to a horse show, you accept the fact that the judging is one man's (or three men, or five men, or some combination thereof of men and women's) opinion. You accept that the existing rules are what they are. That there never is or will be any such thing as a completely level playing field by everyone's definition, and that the more rigorous your definition of 'fair' becomes, the more often you will be unhappy and angry. Some people have more time, more lessons, or more horse; that is not cheating. Further, when you go to a horse show, a sunny 70 degrees with a light offshore breeze is not guaranteed. The Higher Power has to keep crops growing and creeks and rivers filled, too. There is also the inevitability of the seasons, so that it can be expected to rain and even, at times be cool, in October, to the point where it may also snow in July."

There is a guarantee that anything else is poor sportsmanship.

Plantagenet
Oct. 6, 2009, 07:20 AM
when does poor sportmanship start?

calling out judges for outrageously subjective scoring will only make dressage more credible...and then maybe one day Pinnochio, we'll be a REAL sport.

I don't know what happened at Lamplight, but have seen numerous instances of clearly political scoring at championships.

examples: Developing Horse Championships 2008-one of three judges was at least 5 points lower than the other two. Rider is on USEF committee w/ judge and they have disagreements. I was impressed when I witnessed the rider phoning the judge and calling them out on it.

Gladstone 2006- Olympic rider's horse is clearly LAME. the panel doesn't want to leave this horse/rider at home from the WEG so they pretend they don't see it. even I, the last to ever see when a horse is off, can see it. no one blows the whistle. horse was better by Aachen btw.

(aside: was amazed that Leslie Morse was blown out last year in Vegas. perhaps things have gotten better or perhaps Leslie is 'difficult' and it's easier to go after her...I don't know. What I do know is the USEF HP committee knew the horse was lame before Vegas and they opted to send her anyway. I don't know if she told them he was better, but other HP riders were disappointed that they didn't get a chance on their sound horses)

slc2
Oct. 6, 2009, 07:30 AM
Horses get rung out all the time. Always have, always will.

myvanya
Oct. 6, 2009, 11:07 AM
Just because there is a difference in the judges' scores doesn't mean there is politics going on. It means there could be, but one judge may have noticed something the other didn't- they are human. As one of my friends commented at our regional championships, "We run our lives off what these judges say but when it all comes down to it, they are human too and they have to blink sometimes." I can understand it was a frustrating show.

I can't say I have shown at lamplight so I can't really speak to the footing frustrations there, but I do know it is a struggle when you feel outclassed or like someone always wins, BUT, use that as motivation. I have to show in open because I am an adult but I work to earn my lessons as I can't afford them otherwise (I do other horsey work to earn my keep too...) but I am a newbie to dressage. But I still get to show in open, even against my trainer on much nicer horses than my rejected otqh(seriously...this horse has been given away multiple times). But ultimately, I don't care if they kick my rear every single time as long as I meet the goals I set for myself and my horse. And, I hope, that someday I can be competitive in the open division even with my reject horse because I work very hard for it; that day will be sweet :D. But really it isn't about winning ro losing it is about having fun and doing your best on any given day with your horse and that isn't just words- it needs to be something you live. That doesn't mean it isn't hard or frustrating at times, but use that frustration to make yourself that much more motivated to be better than you are now.

My .02 fwiw.

mickeydoodle
Oct. 6, 2009, 11:56 AM
Hmm, she rides 10 or more horses a day, takes vigorous instruction, works in the family business to help earn her keep and wins the class over some (note I said some) who have parents to buy the horse, support it, buy the trailer, drive the kid, pay for lessons, etc.

I would say that you have to work that hard or be physically much more talented to beat her. She rides and works in a system like that in Europe where the juniors work their way up. Edward Gal, Andreas, Isabel, Anky, Catherine H., started the same way.

egontoast
Oct. 6, 2009, 11:58 AM
That's life.

Do you ever notice how the top riders never /almost never? whine about stuff like this (publicly anyway).

Vent privately or you just look like a poor loser.

crthunder
Oct. 6, 2009, 12:04 PM
I went to watch this year at Region 2 and had many friends showing. I did not hear too much about the judges being an issue but the footing was horrific. Shame on LEC! This is not a new issue!

I did hear quite a few interesting comments about unprepared riders trying to blame stewards and volunteers. Shame on the riders for that!

I know who we are talking about, and she is an amazing rider with unbelievable horses. In fact their entire barn is full of these horses. Why? Because they are a high-caliber training operation! She has routinely beaten her mom AND dad in open classes. She is aging out of YR this year, so breathe easy folks :)

My theory is don't complain about illegalities unless you plan to step up to the plate and make a complaint. I did to the TD at one show this year when I was rang INCORRECTLY off course and then the judge didn't say where to restart! I had to ask what was the decision, hoping the whole time I wouldn't be penalized.... I wasn't thank goodness!

I hope LEC doesn't have anymore shows of this caliber until they take care of the footing!
Becky & the boys

ginger708
Oct. 6, 2009, 12:09 PM
As far as the footing it was wet but not unrideable. There was no slipping or stumbles on the part of the horses, it was just really messy. If you were sitting to close to the freestyle ring was like being at sea world, grab the ponchos kids:lol:. As far as the young rider mentioned she does work very hard and her family does enjoy local dressage celebrity and all that implies good or bad. If there is a scoring bias it is for the family only. I have never seen a student do well in their division just because they are students if they won they earned it. The family are very technically precise and strong riders some would say that take the softness and art away from dressage others would say that is what makes dressage a sport. I believe that is why we have judges some like riders that ride one was some like riders that ride another way. I am a AA so I have no dog in this fight, her parents ride in Open and she rides as a YR. I'm sure she will go to open when she ages out of young rider because she will have sponsors. The rest of the young riders that decide to move up will be with us lowly AA and will have no more excuses for not beating our pants off;). If she is a bad as some if the region 2 parents and young riders believe then I guess she will get her hat handed to her in Germany. However I think she will hold her own and I wish her luck.

Tiki
Oct. 6, 2009, 12:19 PM
"She is unbeatable" So work harder! and stop whining. I beat Lendon Gray in a test once - and trust me - I am so NOT an Olympic Level Rider.

AnotherRound
Oct. 6, 2009, 12:21 PM
I say broaden your horizons and find some other shows to go to. Do you some good to compete against some new people.

Long Spot
Oct. 6, 2009, 12:28 PM
I say broaden your horizons and find some other shows to go to. Do you some good to compete against some new people.

And compare your scores and comments to the ones you've already recieved.

ASBnTX
Oct. 6, 2009, 12:42 PM
Your horse doesn't know or care who the competition is, how the footing is (well maybe if there were puddles, my horse likes to hop those), or who should be competing against whom. I'm sure he was just enjoying the excitement of showing his stuff, and having fun spending the day with you. I thought that's what this was supposed to be about :confused:

Shrunk "N" Da Wash
Oct. 6, 2009, 01:13 PM
Sounds like someone is a tad jealous... It's not her fault she is a remarkable rider for her age with a great string of horses. Instead of saying how you think the judge was in her corner and she was in the wrong division how about you ask yourself... "How can I be like her?"

Dressage Dreamer
Oct. 6, 2009, 01:13 PM
I'd just be thankful to have had a horse period to take to regionals. Plenty of great riders out there horseless at this time or with injured horses.Sorry to break it to you..there are always going to be people out there that are better then you, and some will even have incredible luck. If your not happy with your own progress maybe find a working student job? If you want it bad enough and are willing to sacrifice you can make your own luck. As far as the mud..its still a sport isnt it? if you felt it was THAT bad why didnt you scratch instead of risking your poor horses legs? Otherwise it may have been muddy but rideable. I remember one year at BLMS in VA my ring was standing water, my TB at the time loved splashing around :)

Carol O
Oct. 6, 2009, 01:22 PM
[QUOTE=rothmpp;4420795]OP - comfort yourself in the knowledge that she'll age out eventually and then will have to ride in the open division. I could be wrong - but might this be her last year as a YR?
QUOTE]

When she shows in the open division she will still kick butt.

ideayoda
Oct. 6, 2009, 01:33 PM
Obviously the rider did ride in many divisions, but the scores were not that high. At the finals the scores should be in high 60s into 70s if the riders should be there. Only a handfull of scores into low 70s and a could at 75-76, but mostly lower levels. The question is what the background of the OP is, whether she knows what is to be the touchpoints of judging results. If the OP wants the same results, then crack down and work on equitation and perfect the develop of the horse. As far as teaching others, what did you not like? Good directions are good directions for success.

rileyt
Oct. 6, 2009, 01:52 PM
I agree that OP's post comes off as sour grapes... but I will note this one thing that I personally find distasteful...

I think it is tacky to show a horse at 2 adjoining levels for championships. I understand that you may show at Training level early in the year, and First level later in the year, and you may end up qualifying for championships in both... But if you're scoring an average of 73% in Second, Test 4, and you win the Second level championship... you should not be dropping back to First Level to mop up a second blue ribbon just because you can. Championships - in my opinion - should be just that -- something you work towards with that horse, that is a challenge for you and him together. A chance to test yourself against the best of your class.

So... am I to understand that if one is a Jr/YR, then they can show in that classs EVEN IF THEY ARE A PRO? I thought once you earned money, you had to show in the Open class regardless of your age -- (although admittedly its been a long time since I've looked for the rule).

Foxhound
Oct. 6, 2009, 01:55 PM
Under the rules for dressage, if you are under 21, you can show as a Jr/Young Rider, even if you are a professional.
May or may not be fair, but certainly within the rules.

rileyt
Oct. 6, 2009, 02:05 PM
Under the rules for dressage, if you are under 21, you can show as a Jr/Young Rider, even if you are a professional.
May or may not be fair, but certainly within the rules.

Meh... I'm not so concerned if its fair. The rules are the rules. Thanks for setting me straight. If she can show in those classes legally, then your only recourse is to work harder and try to beat her.

WBLover
Oct. 6, 2009, 02:22 PM
OP - comfort yourself in the knowledge that she'll age out eventually and then will have to ride in the open division. I could be wrong - but might this be her last year as a YR?

The one thing about horses - there's always going to be someone with more time, money, or better horses than you. Sometimes it does just have to be about the journey.

RE: Lamplight... I qualified this year and decided to pass on championships right before closing. Considering the weather, I'm beyond happy that I saved the money for next year.


When she shows in the open division she will still kick butt.

Yes, but from the sounds of it then the OP won't have to compete against her!! To the OP, if she were taken out of the mix, would you still be upset about the placings/scores? If not, then just pretend she wasn't there and THEN see how you did.

bort84
Oct. 6, 2009, 03:15 PM
Okaaay, everybody, let's chill on the OP. She's just venting. We all understand what it's like, and yes, pros tend to not come on these boards and whine about it, but that's because they don't have jobs where they can sit at a computer all day and do so = ) I've heard plenty of pros whine when they don't win, to friends, customers, people who don't care, etc. It's slightly poor sportsmanship, but this board is dominated by ammies, so I think the OP was just looking for a shoulder.

So, OP, I feel your pain = ) It's part of horse showing, sure, but venting helps your sanity, haha.

On the other hand, I grew up as a "trainer's kid" actually my grandma was the trainer, but same idea. We were training mostly saddle seat horses, so it's a different genre, but the same politics occur. Anyway, I, fortunately or unfortunately, didn't usually have the best string of horses to ride = ) making me slightly annoyed when other "trainer's kids" beat me with slightly less skill but on top top horses. However, even though it rankled me at times to lose to riders that may be a smidge less good but were on better horses, I look back now and realize that I got an amazing experience because we had to train each horse to the absolute top of his talent range. I won a LOT of classes where I beat very expensive horses on one of our backyard wonders, haha. I also got good enough that I got to work with a lot of horses that did have a lot of talent when I worked with other trainers, and it makes you appreciate those good ones so much more.

Anyway, it was saddle seat, so it's a bit of a different world, but I worked my butt off 6 days a week or more during show season and always caught static from riders my age (really, their parents were usually the worst) because I was much better than them (duh, I was riding multiple horses everyday, and, again, working my butt off). That being said, you knew there were some pairs you just couldn't beat, because of their talent, the horse's talent, or both. You vent about it to your buds, but then you obviously have to move on, haha. Still, it can get frustrating to watch the same people win over and over again, no matter how talented they are, because they have such wonderful horses underneath them. Call it jealousy, that's what it usually is, but that's human nature.

And, let's give the OP the benefit of the doubt, "politicking" often plays a large role in who gets the top spot. People on here gripe about it all the time even at international competitions where they don't even have a horse, so let's not be too hard on the OP for venting about the same thing at a smaller venue = )

Also, I used to show at Lamplight a lot. I always wanted them to cover just a couple of their rings, haha. What a nightmare during rain, bleh. And it's a VERY expensive venue, such a waste when/if you have to scratch. It sure is pretty when the weather's nice though.

rothmpp
Oct. 6, 2009, 05:20 PM
[QUOTE=rothmpp;4420795]OP - comfort yourself in the knowledge that she'll age out eventually and then will have to ride in the open division. I could be wrong - but might this be her last year as a YR?
QUOTE]

When she shows in the open division she will still kick butt.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I've seen her ride for years and I'm happy to say that I am old enough that I never had to ride against her, and probably never will, since I don't plan to have to ride in the open division any time soon. I meant that for the OP that they will not have to ride against the YR in question after this year until she ages out. :)

Dressage_Julie
Oct. 6, 2009, 08:21 PM
As a former young rider I am appalled by the OP comments! OP- you are the example of why young riders get a bad name. Dressage is a sport about improving your last score and getting constructive feedback. I know the young rider you speak of, you have to give the girl due respect. She works very hard. Not all agree with her training philosophy, but she is out there riding every day rain or shine- I am willing to bet that you are no where near her caliber. You need to grow up. Realize that you should be in it for the love of the sport and the love of the horse. Your riding will improve as soon as you stop thinking about ribbons and start taking the comments from judges to heart. You have shown in your post your utter disrespect for the sport. You will learn very quickly that this sport is very small and judges talk. If you disrespect one, you disrespect many. You need to keep you attitude in check and perhaps loosing was the best thing that could have happened to you. Hopefully this was the wake up call it looks like you need!

quietann
Oct. 6, 2009, 10:51 PM
Give the OP a break... envious, sure, and green with it. BUT if the judges behaved like she says they did, that's just not right... Conversing with a particular group of people, who then, hm, win or do very well in all their classes is VERY unprofessional behavior on the judge's part... and even if the people in that group really *are* that good, it looks bad and is very discouraging to those who are not in the "in crowd."

Sillypony
Oct. 6, 2009, 11:21 PM
Wow yes, I agree with the above poster. The holier than thou attitude towards the OP is a bit much. Lighten up!

And please, don't jump on me. As an also former YR, I have competed against the person named here. And beat her. ;)

Velvet
Oct. 6, 2009, 11:28 PM
Back in the old days, Ammies rode against Pros. It was all about people riding and showing that they knew what they were doing and if you won, you really were the best at that level and in that test. I still don't get this need for people to have the divisions. Seriously, if you work at your riding on ONE horse all the time, you can beat the pants off a lot of trainers (who hang out a shingle and really aren't all that and a bag of chips). The only ones you might not beat are the Olympic riders, but isn't it fun to see where you WOULD stack up against them in a class if you did ride against them?

I just don't see why people get so up in arms. Like I said, I'm an old timer. Back then you rode against the pros and just kept working at getting better and became more competitive. You kept trying to beat them. It wasn't about having all the ribbons. It was about becoming a great rider--or better rider, if you didn't have the natural talent or the best moving horse. It was about riding and horsemanship. :sigh: Oh how things change.

Gry2Yng
Oct. 6, 2009, 11:47 PM
As a former young rider I am appalled by the OP comments! OP- you are the example of why young riders get a bad name. Dressage is a sport about improving your last score and getting constructive feedback. I know the young rider you speak of, you have to give the girl due respect. She works very hard. Not all agree with her training philosophy, but she is out there riding every day rain or shine- I am willing to bet that you are no where near her caliber. You need to grow up. Realize that you should be in it for the love of the sport and the love of the horse. Your riding will improve as soon as you stop thinking about ribbons and start taking the comments from judges to heart. You have shown in your post your utter disrespect for the sport. You will learn very quickly that this sport is very small and judges talk. If you disrespect one, you disrespect many. You need to keep you attitude in check and perhaps loosing was the best thing that could have happened to you. Hopefully this was the wake up call it looks like you need!

The fact that many Americans don't have health care is something to be appalled about. This is just a vent. We vent on BB's. We do something about things that are truly appalling.

Tiligsmom
Oct. 6, 2009, 11:59 PM
WOW...I just checked out her scores...AMAZING! I hope we retain her as a potential Olympic level rider representing the USA!!!

Fixerupper
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:00 AM
The fact that many Americans don't have health care is something to be appalled about.
:yes:
This is what is sooo wrong with this sport in NA.....don't know who the gal is.... but 'talented young rider on good horses' is slammed for winning instead of lauded for being an up-and-comer!!!
Pulleeze!! Get behind her....she may be the next Courtney King....if not... slam her in 4 or 5 or 10 years :lol:

Kyzteke
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:03 AM
The fact that many Americans don't have health care is something to be appalled about. This is just a vent. We vent on BB's. We do something about things that are truly appalling.

Yeah, like the fact that (apparently) so many people are spending a good portion of their work day posting on BB's :eek::eek::eek::eek::confused:

No wonder nothing is getting done in this country!

Ok, that was MY vent....:D

Fixerupper
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:23 AM
and you are doing what in 'this country' other than posting on a horse BB??? just saying...

Gry2Yng
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:32 AM
I'm not for her or against her. Wow! Just saying, venting is okay. Why do we have to pound on each other all the time?

ETA: Really, a post to say, leave the poor OP alone is worth of being asked what I do for this country? It is JUST dressage. FWIW, I don't have a work day. I sit on my tush all day and post on BB like this.

Quest52
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:42 AM
venting is okay, but is it really warranted?

The OP seems to be upset that she lost to Kassie (come on now... we all know who we're talking about here.) Who works and rides many horses every single day. That is that Woman's JOB. She does it all... she trains her own horses, she gets lessons, she tacks up up and breaks um' down, she shows and is there for her entire team helping the entire time. Its not like she leaves and goes home, even if the weather is cold and rainy like it was this weekend. She's in the muck holding horses for her Mom, and out there wiping the mud off of them when they are done.
And when these shows are over, she takes all of her mounts home, cleans them up, feeds them and gets ready to do it all over again the next DAY.

I can bet you that the OP isn't in this category. Don't boo hoo over someone who clearly deserves it. Embrace the comments that you've gotten (in your tests, in your training and IN THIS FORUM), embrace the process and the relationship between your horse and yourself.

Fixerupper
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:42 AM
vent vent vent...isn't that what we are all doing?....and FWIW I DO have a work day and I'm not 'lovin it' ...yesterday, today or tomorrow :lol:
Guilty as charged.....perhaps the OP is the next Courtney King...how bad do I feel?!?! :-)

Gry2Yng
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:45 AM
Fixerupper, I can't even tell where you are coming from. Kassie does her stuff. Some people are bummed they can't compete. Sucks. Vent, so what. Other people are declaring bankruptcy because they can't pay their bills for their health care. We come here to express ourselves? What is your point? venting doesn't have to be warranted. Sometime people just need to talk. Some of them do it here. It is a lot cheeper than a shrinks office.

My husband pays the bills and I have really nice horses and I don't work and sometimes he leaves crumbs on the the counter. Pisses me off, I vent to my girlfriends. In the grand scheme, is it warranted, no probably not, still nice to have my girlfriends listen.

Fixerupper
Oct. 7, 2009, 01:09 AM
My husband pays the bills and I have really nice horses and I don't work and sometimes he leaves crumbs on the the counter. Pisses me off, I vent to my girlfriends. In the grand scheme, is it warranted, no probably not, still nice to have my girlfriends listen.


Just venting...but I don't see you on here complaining about your husband...well maybe just now...;)
I work in the biz... I see how hard it is for really talented riders to get ahead without the whinging of the 'competition'. There are so many threads on this board about how NA riders don't get any respect in Europe..yadda yadda...it burns me when they can't actually get respect at home for their successes until they make it 'big'....and what the heck is big if not IMBY? As I said 'just venting'...

edit...and by the way this biz has made me 'grey too young' as well !!!

nomeolvides
Oct. 7, 2009, 06:08 AM
Back in the old days, Ammies rode against Pros. It was all about people riding and showing that they knew what they were doing and if you won, you really were the best at that level and in that test. I still don't get this need for people to have the divisions. Seriously, if you work at your riding on ONE horse all the time, you can beat the pants off a lot of trainers (who hang out a shingle and really aren't all that and a bag of chips). The only ones you might not beat are the Olympic riders, but isn't it fun to see where you WOULD stack up against them in a class if you did ride against them?
In the UK, amateurs and pros rider in the same classes in eventing and dressage (I think). It must be so much more rewarding to gain a top-10 amongst professional riders at the top of their game, than winning a division without them.

slc2
Oct. 7, 2009, 06:19 AM
I feel sorry for the original poster, who has just shamed herself in public. This isn't a vent, it is a jealous diatribe of someone who is a poor sport.

This is a vent:

'I'm TIRED! I'm COLD! I had a long weekend! I wanted to win more ribbons!'

This is a jealous diatribe:

'She who shall not be named but easily can be guessed, sucks! So do all the judges that judge her!'

Me thinks the other little dressage wizards need to get out and practice riding their brooms a little more, and learn to be good sports, like Mr. POTTER.

Bogey2
Oct. 7, 2009, 06:39 AM
I agree with slc, sour grapes.


I was always told not to talk to the judges untill after the show was done!

I had no idea this was a rule....I talk with the judges at shows...and I still don't get the high score:lol:

Trakehner
Oct. 7, 2009, 07:39 AM
Unless the class is judged by a clock ticking the seconds away or a pole leaving it's cups...well, we're going to have complaints over judicial bias.

Is it true, of course.
If you wish to show dressage or hunters...gotta' expect this to happen--a lot.

So, pull up your "Big Girl Panties" and go show jumpers.:winkgrin:

Carol O
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:29 AM
I feel sorry for the original poster, who has just shamed herself in public. This isn't a vent, it is a jealous diatribe of someone who is a poor sport.

This is a vent:

'I'm TIRED! I'm COLD! I had a long weekend! I wanted to win more ribbons!'

This is a jealous diatribe:

'She who shall not be named but easily can be guessed, sucks! So do all the judges that judge her!'

Me thinks the other little dressage wizards need to get out and practice riding their brooms a little more, and learn to be good sports, like Mr. POTTER. Brilliant!

Gry2Yng
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:40 AM
I feel sorry for the original poster, who has just shamed herself in public. This isn't a vent, it is a jealous diatribe of someone who is a poor sport.

This is a vent:

'I'm TIRED! I'm COLD! I had a long weekend! I wanted to win more ribbons!'

This is a jealous diatribe:

'She who shall not be named but easily can be guessed, sucks! So do all the judges that judge her!'

Me thinks the other little dressage wizards need to get out and practice riding their brooms a little more, and learn to be good sports, like Mr. POTTER.

You are right. Still the OP is a YR and life has a lot of lessons to offer. This is just one of them. I have always enjoyed working with the kids at NAYRC (eventers) because I think it teaches the kids a lot about life, including how to lose graciously.

MrWinston
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:40 AM
I was showing AA Hunters and beating a woman pretty much every time out. She was a nice rider with a very easy horse to ride, mine was not an easy ride but I worked him every day (6 days a week) and kept him in the program he needed. She didn't ride her horse much, just tuned up before a show. I heard through the grape vine that she intended to say something very publicly to embarrass me just before the first class at the next show (very childish of course). She did this and just as publicly I said, "Let me give you the best free riding lesson you will ever get. If you pay much less attention to what others are doing and more to riding and training your own horse, you will WIN!" Ironically, that day my horse decided to drag me down the lines and try to leave out strides. I withdrew him and it ended with this woman being beaten by EVERYONE! Same theory applies to the OP IMO.

Gry2Yng
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:49 AM
I don't think we have any reference point for how hard the OP is working. She may be working her tail off. We don't know. When you are young, you think life should be fair. And if you are a young girl of simple means with a nice but not spectacular horse getting one lesson a week, it seems unfair to have to compete against Kassie. We get older, we learn life isn't fair. We also learn that horses have much more to offer than just competitive accolades.

Dressage_Julie
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:55 AM
Where has the OP been? I really hope that she is reading these posts and can learn and grow from them.

myvanya
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:40 AM
Unless the class is judged by a clock ticking the seconds away or a pole leaving it's cups...well, we're going to have complaints over judicial bias.

Is it true, of course.
If you wish to show dressage or hunters...gotta' expect this to happen--a lot.

So, pull up your "Big Girl Panties" and go show jumpers.:winkgrin:

Even in jumpers you can have judging issues...ask me how I know...someone has to decide if the clock was right and if the rail was realy down and if it was really a refusal. So really. If you are going to show a horse at all you have to realize that at the end of the day someone else's decision's about your ride determine hown you place; it is just a matter of degree.

And some have said we don't know the OP's situation so she may have a right to be frustrated. I agree we don't know how hard the OP works or what her budget or means are, but being a good sportsman and knowing what matters can start at any age and with any budget.

I don't have a problem with a true vent- as SLC2 said- venting is one thing, taking issue with specific people because they won comes off not as venting but as something else entirely. Maybe that wasn't the OP's intention, but the joy of the internet is we can only guess at an intention through a person's written words.

MrWinston
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:00 AM
I don't think we have any reference point for how hard the OP is working. She may be working her tail off. We don't know. When you are young, you think life should be fair. And if you are a young girl of simple means with a nice but not spectacular horse getting one lesson a week, it seems unfair to have to compete against Kassie. We get older, we learn life isn't fair. We also learn that horses have much more to offer than just competitive accolades.

How much time and energy did she put into validating her sense of injustice at that show instead of having a good atitude and making educational observations of the better riders? Which do you think would improve her rides?

FancyFree
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:19 AM
How much time and energy did she put into validating her sense of injustice at that show instead of having a good atitude and making educational observations of the better riders? Which do you think would improve her rides?

Come on, let's get real here. There are some people you just can't beat. They may not be better riders, but they may have a much, much nicer horses. I don't know what the OP's situation is, but dressage IS subjective to a great extent. Politics and money do come into play. There are people in the sport that can afford to buy expensive warmbloods who are almost always going to beat out the little backyard non-WB horse. That's just the way the sport is. That's the lesson the OP should learn. Oh and don't whine at COTH. Go to a private board where people who know you will be supportive. I did not get from the OP's post that it was solely about this particular rider, but more of a complaint about the judges' inappropriate behavior.

If you want almost no subjectivity in a discipline, ride jumpers or accept dressage for what it is. Enjoy your own personal journey. I do agree that an attitude change is necessary for your riding. If you're going to be bitter, it will only leave you frustrated with your horse and yourself. I think you really have to view dressage competition as a means of gauging where you are in your training and what you need to improve. The focus should be on you and your horse, not on other riders.

MrWinston
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:24 AM
Of course there are politics involved. I have to take the comments about the judge's "innappropriate behavior" with a grain of salt. The OP is not objective about what she is seeing. Judges don't want to appear biased and usually will avoid conversing too much with exhibitors during the show. OTOH, there is nothing wrong with a judge acknowledging people they know and being polite.

FancyFree
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:28 AM
Of course there are politics involved. I have to take the comments about the judge's "innappropriate behavior" with a grain of salt. The OP is not subjective about what she is seeing. Judges don't want to appear biased and usually will avoid conversing too much with exhibitors during the show. OTOH, there is nothing wrong with a judge acknowledging people they know and being polite.

Do you mean to say the OP is not being objective? How do you know that? She reported that the judge pointed out another rider's scores while in the office. She wrote that the other barn spent the weekend talking to the judges. There's no subjective or objective there. It's either she's telling the truth or lying.

if what she wrote is the truth, then I do agree that the judges' behavior was inappropriate.

MrWinston
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:36 AM
We only have one frustrated person's word about the judge's behavior. I can only give that so much credibility.

I've done some judging as well as horse showing for many years. I've seen my share of politics and even some innappropriate behavior but not nearly as much as the OP implies. I can only go by my own experiences. My best guy friend is an FEI Dressage judge who judged the last Olympic Games. You should hear his take on how unrealistic some people are about their rides and about how they are judged.

Angela Freda
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:57 AM
I don't think we have any reference point for how hard the OP is working. She may be working her tail off. We don't know.
That is so true.
Everyone has different circumstances- one rider is born to BNTs and works hard. The other is born to Joe mechanic and works part time as a waitress to earn $$ to help put food on the table as well as support her riding habit. Who is anyone to judge who is working harder? Who is more fortunate?

Life isn't fair and hoping it is, or thinking someday it will be isn't helpful. But pretending that some people who do have an obvious advantage that others do not enjoy don't have that advantage isn't really helpful either.

bort84
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:29 AM
I really don't get the spew on the OP... I would call her post a vent. Sure, there's some jealousy involved, but that's normal in a horse show vent, and though I'm sure her viewpoint is slightly biased (most people's are), she may actually have witnessed some poor judge behavior going on.

And, come on, I hardly think this thread is going to deter the up and coming young rider from aiming to ride her best. However, I was not at the show, so who knows how the judging was? If any of y'all were there and watched the majority of the classes, want to pipe in? I've been to a few shows where I was absolutely SHOCKED at the politics that governed placings - that doesn't make me a terrible person (even if I vented about it to some people, haha). This may not have been one of those shows, but it might have been.

Also, just because she came on here to vent, which took probably all of 1 minute to type, doesn't necessarily mean she's not also putting work into her horse and her riding... Again, I've been on both sides of this coin, "trainer's kid" working her tail off to make sure everything is perfect at home and at the show (waaaay more actual horse work than most ammies have to put in), and now I'm the ammy who has to work her tail off (well, it has actually gotten bigger, haha) at a desk job to make sure my horse can eat but does not get to ride anywhere near the number of horses as before. Both sides have their hard parts, and as soon as I'm able, I want to get back to the hard parts on the pro side, haha. I am SO ready to not have a desk job anymore, just gotta get some savings built up - young trainers without the help of BNT parents have trouble paying rent and affording groceries, haha. So maybe I'm a little jealous of this YR too. Yep, I'll admit it, I am = )

HenryisBlaisin'
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:40 PM
I think the complaints about the scores are, as always, an indicator of someone competing for the wrong reasons. IMO, dressage isn't about the ribbon, it's not abou the other riders, it's about YOU and YOUR horse. period. End of story.

That said, when I show in any discipline, I try my utmost to show nothing but respect for the judges, my competitors, and, most importantly, my horse. To me that means showing up turned out correctly with attention to details and displaying good sportsmanship, win or lose. I was taught never to speak with a judge without explicit permission to do so, and then only after all classes have concluded. For a rider to engage in conversation with a judge (any more than a passing "hello") is unsportsmanlike and unprofessional on behalf of the judge. We all know politicking occurs, but we don't need to advertise it. Hearing of competitors engaging in that, and the judges and show management obviously condoning it, would leave a bad taste in my mouth as well.

As far as ribbons go...if you don't want to get beaten, don't show. I'm kind of bummed-my horse is in the "reworking" stage after coming off an...er, interesting lease and he's not quite the same as he was before he went out. That means unless he suddenly turnes everything around by Saturday, iIm not going to win my pleasure class at the local show. That bums me out because I've never not won a pleasure class with him. So, I can either stay at home, blue ribbon record intact, or I can go show, make the best of it, and use it as another tool in his retraining. We're going.

The OP has some legitimate complaints, and some that are more poor sportsmanship on her part. It happens. Let her vent and move on.

Rear*Buck*Rear
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:43 PM
From what the OP has said, I can speculate as to who she is, and believe she was the one I was stabled near at the show and would love to give you all some insight:

The OP is a young rider who acted very unprofessional at the show grounds. Though I was not in her "team" nor a YR myself, I was stabled near them. What I witnessed was nothing less of acting like a spoiled unprofessional diva. She scratched her class on Saturday, and left for the entire day. This OP did not support her team, or her horse, which seemed to be treated like an ornament and not like a partner, left in the stall dirty. After getting her scores on Sunday in her championship class, she promptly had a public FIT and refused to participate in the awards ceremony because of her placing and had some loud words with her trainer (couldn't hear what they said though??) She then later banged around loading her horse and things, and huffed away, with the horse still covered in mud from the ride.

The horse also is very capable of getting the scores, for he is an upper level schoolmaster showing 1st level. So complaining that others are doing upper level movements in the warm up and then showing lower levels is mute, because that is what her horse is able to do as well.

So, though I can't speak for more than what I saw in the tent... I feel that is more information than we already have. I see this as a bratty outburst, just like the attitude that was displayed publicly at the show grounds. Its not the judges, its the attitude. Its a small small world OP, I think an attitude and behavior check is in need. You've stimulated over 5 pages of comments on your behavior, so maybe you should think about how appropriate it is. Its not Kassie, and its not the judges... look to yourself and your own actions.

Angela Freda
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:46 PM
From what the OP has said, I can speculate...
Sorry, You lost me at 'speculate'.

Rear*Buck*Rear
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:49 PM
I was also in the awards room and heard the girl exclaim what she said in the room... so, though I don't know for sure because the girl hasn't been super exact... I'm about 95% sure this is the person. Is that more helpful?

FancyFree
Oct. 7, 2009, 12:59 PM
Sorry, You lost me at 'speculate'.

Me too.



The horse also is very capable of getting the scores, for he is an upper level schoolmaster showing 1st level. So complaining that others are doing upper level movements in the warm up and then showing lower levels is mute, because that is what her horse is able to do as well.

That would be moot.

I agree that commenting on another rider's scores are poor sportsmanship. But if the judges behaved the way the OP described, that's inappropriate. She's entitled a vent about that, imo.

She vented about it. What's left to say?

JMurray
Oct. 7, 2009, 01:04 PM
As a former young rider I am appalled by the OP comments! OP- you are the example of why young riders get a bad name. Dressage is a sport about improving your last score and getting constructive feedback. I know the young rider you speak of, you have to give the girl due respect. She works very hard. Not all agree with her training philosophy, but she is out there riding every day rain or shine- I am willing to bet that you are no where near her caliber. You need to grow up. Realize that you should be in it for the love of the sport and the love of the horse. Your riding will improve as soon as you stop thinking about ribbons and start taking the comments from judges to heart. You have shown in your post your utter disrespect for the sport. You will learn very quickly that this sport is very small and judges talk. If you disrespect one, you disrespect many. You need to keep you attitude in check and perhaps loosing was the best thing that could have happened to you. Hopefully this was the wake up call it looks like you need!


Wow, I am sure the OP enjoyed your icky picky lecture, cut her a break. Per SLC..are you always this much fun?

MrWinston
Oct. 7, 2009, 01:50 PM
From what the OP has said, I can speculate as to who she is, and believe she was the one I was stabled near at the show and would love to give you all some insight:

The OP is a young rider who acted very unprofessional at the show grounds. Though I was not in her "team" nor a YR myself, I was stabled near them. What I witnessed was nothing less of acting like a spoiled unprofessional diva. She scratched her class on Saturday, and left for the entire day. This OP did not support her team, or her horse, which seemed to be treated like an ornament and not like a partner, left in the stall dirty. After getting her scores on Sunday in her championship class, she promptly had a public FIT and refused to participate in the awards ceremony because of her placing and had some loud words with her trainer (couldn't hear what they said though??) She then later banged around loading her horse and things, and huffed away, with the horse still covered in mud from the ride.

That people can witness the very same thing and see it 100% differently. This is more like what I guessed happened. When you bring this attitude to the show and to the ring, you defeat yourself.

The horse also is very capable of getting the scores, for he is an upper level schoolmaster showing 1st level. So complaining that others are doing upper level movements in the warm up and then showing lower levels is mute, because that is what her horse is able to do as well.

So, though I can't speak for more than what I saw in the tent... I feel that is more information than we already have. I see this as a bratty outburst, just like the attitude that was displayed publicly at the show grounds. Its not the judges, its the attitude. Its a small small world OP, I think an attitude and behavior check is in need. You've stimulated over 5 pages of comments on your behavior, so maybe you should think about how appropriate it is. Its not Kassie, and its not the judges... look to yourself and your own actions.

That people can be in the same place and witness the same thing and see it 100% differently. When you bring that attitude to the show and to the ring (not to mention to the horse), you defeat yourself. In order to perform well you have to have total concentration on your horse and your ride.

luv2piaffe
Oct. 7, 2009, 02:31 PM
I didnt show first level so that wasnt me, but good try. And yes I was venting, but i didnt want the attack to come back onto me. There are alot of people in the area that feel the same about what I said, so to whoever I pissed off with my post w/e. Im done with the vent, the shows over and I think the attack back on me should be over too

Coreene
Oct. 7, 2009, 03:14 PM
"Fine command of the English language." - Rupert Campbell-Black

rileyt
Oct. 7, 2009, 03:22 PM
"Fine command of the English language." - Rupert Campbell-Black


:D :D :D

MrWinston
Oct. 7, 2009, 03:38 PM
I didnt show first level so that wasnt me, but good try. And yes I was venting, but i didnt want the attack to come back onto me. There are alot of people in the area that feel the same about what I said, so to whoever I pissed off with my post w/e. Im done with the vent, the shows over and I think the attack back on me should be over to.

Did the rest of the description fit?

danceronice
Oct. 7, 2009, 03:50 PM
I think it is tacky to show a horse at 2 adjoining levels for championships. I understand that you may show at Training level early in the year, and First level later in the year, and you may end up qualifying for championships in both... But if you're scoring an average of 73% in Second, Test 4, and you win the Second level championship... you should not be dropping back to First Level to mop up a second blue ribbon just because you can. Championships - in my opinion - should be just that -- something you work towards with that horse, that is a challenge for you and him together. A chance to test yourself against the best of your class.

I have to agree with Riley here. There may always be someone better, yadda yadda, but it IS tacky and tasteless if you're sucessful at a higher level to drop down just because you can WHETHER IT'S THE LETTER OF THE LAW OR NOT. If you're winning at Second, don't drop down to first. You don't belong there. (Unless you are on a different horse, obviously, who is NOT winning at Second.)

And sorry, but here or on the H/J forums, I roll my eyes when people start in on the holier-than-thou "It's not about PLACINGS and RIBBONS or WINNING, you sore loser," etc. If placings and ribbons and winning were unimportant and it's just about your and your horse and your progress...stay home and buy a video camera. It'll be cheaper and you can gauge progress a lot better without all the variable of different show environments. If it's not about competition, it's not a sport, and there is no point in HAVING shows. It IS about competition, meaning there will always be winners and losers and people griping about placements.

egontoast
Oct. 7, 2009, 03:51 PM
I didnt show first level so that wasnt me

I think you just gave yourself away there. Odd way to answer otherwise.:)

Boomer
Oct. 7, 2009, 04:16 PM
And sorry, but here or on the H/J forums, I roll my eyes when people start in on the holier-than-thou "It's not about PLACINGS and RIBBONS or WINNING, you sore loser," etc. If placings and ribbons and winning were unimportant and it's just about your and your horse and your progress...stay home and buy a video camera. ..................... If it's not about competition, it's not a sport, and there is no point in HAVING shows. It IS about competition, meaning there will always be winners and losers and people griping about placements.

I agree. It is about competing. To say it isn't is like saying the Olympics or WEG aren't about winning, just about getting feedback about you & horse's progress. You learn to compete coming up the levels so when you get to the "big time" hopefully you've developed tools to handle the pressure.

goeslikestink
Oct. 7, 2009, 04:27 PM
Excuse me? You guys need to get a life and stop with the attacking. I cant believe I need to explain myself to you people. Lets see I didnt show first level, I dont own a he I own a she who is a young horse not a "school master". I didnt leave for the awards ceremony, and do I really need to continue? Seriously it was a vent get over it, so back off and shut up! So OTHER people experienced the same thing i did, whatever! This post orginally started out as a vent and now Im defending myself against someone who says she knows who I am, but obviously not... so BACK OFF!!!

ooh for god sake grow up--

little tip matey------ when competing there two of you ie you and your horse
amougst many personalities of both horse and riders and all the hussle and bussle

the winner is the one that enters the ring and trys hard to improve oneself and there partnership with the horse
winning a cup or rosette rewards or sashes whatever or being placed is a bonus

winning isnt everything - but trying to improve you and your horse is
as the more little goals you achieve the higher up the ladder you go-
and matey if your horse is young then its only going to improve ring expreince and knoweldge for you both every time out so its bonus all the way round

the cup or whatever is just the icing on a cake - accept defeat graciously reaps more rewards then you will ever know -- its call respect of you your horse and your disipline etc

ginger708
Oct. 7, 2009, 04:33 PM
Excuse me? You guys need to get a life and stop with the attacking. I cant believe I need to explain myself to you people. Lets see I didnt show first level, I dont own a he I own a she who is a young horse not a "school master". I didnt leave for the awards ceremony, and do I really need to continue? Seriously it was a vent get over it, so back off and shut up! So OTHER people experienced the same thing i did, whatever! This post orginally started out as a vent and now Im defending myself against someone who says she knows who I am, but obviously not... so BACK OFF!!!

Well you may have been venting, however when you accuse another competitor and the judges to be in cahoots and therefor damaged your chances of having a all around great experience. Then you decide to let it all out on a public forum. I believe you have to expect some criticism. Maybe criticism and riding in the rain are not your thing and that's ok, but don't get mad when you open your self up to it. Also if you were showing in the lower rings they looked to be the driest out of all the rings on saturday as well as the lower barn warm up. Maybe rain and Kassandra Barteau are not your biggest problems.

Rear*Buck*Rear
Oct. 7, 2009, 04:54 PM
Excuse me? You guys need to get a life and stop with the attacking. I cant believe I need to explain myself to you people. Lets see I didnt show first level, I dont own a he I own a she who is a young horse not a "school master". I didnt leave for the awards ceremony, and do I really need to continue? Seriously it was a vent get over it, so back off and shut up! So OTHER people experienced the same thing i did, whatever! This post orginally started out as a vent and now Im defending myself against someone who says she knows who I am, but obviously not... so BACK OFF!!!

Interesting that on an other thread you mentioned your horse was a "he" multiple times...

Alagirl
Oct. 7, 2009, 04:58 PM
oh, come one guys!

Don't we all now that Dressage is all the time 100% objective!

Chalk it up to the full moon, but y'all are not very nice, nor a lot of fun.

roo 2
Oct. 7, 2009, 05:17 PM
Interesting that on an other thread you mentioned your horse was a "he" multiple times...

Yes, I have to also agree that the OP's posts in previous threads present a serious challenge to the veracity of her posts here.

Let's hope that once the OP has the opportunity to absorb what transpired on this thread that she learns not only more of what being a good sportperson entails, but also how difficult it is to maintain anonymity in the cyberworld.

egontoast
Oct. 7, 2009, 05:35 PM
yes, has an axe to grind.

http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=4277747#post4277747

Angela Freda
Oct. 7, 2009, 05:53 PM
yes, has an axe to grind.

http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=4277747#post4277747
Grabbing a popcorn and a hot cocoa.... it's a windy bitter night here and that thread is not JUST the OP bashing this family, but MANY people doing so. Seems the OP is not the only person to think they get special consideration.

mishmash
Oct. 7, 2009, 06:46 PM
And sorry, but here or on the H/J forums, I roll my eyes when people start in on the holier-than-thou "It's not about PLACINGS and RIBBONS or WINNING, you sore loser," etc. If placings and ribbons and winning were unimportant and it's just about your and your horse and your progress...stay home and buy a video camera. It'll be cheaper and you can gauge progress a lot better without all the variable of different show environments. If it's not about competition, it's not a sport, and there is no point in HAVING shows. It IS about competition, meaning there will always be winners and losers and people griping about placements.


Hear, Hear!!

narcisco
Oct. 7, 2009, 06:57 PM
I do see a couple of issues with the rules that have been problematic for years and probably should change.

1. Jr/Yrs training and teaching for money but not considered professionals, technically amateurs. To me, this challenges the whole definition of professional and amateur and needs clarification. There may need to be Jr/Yr open division and a Jr/Yr amateur division, just like the adults have.

2. People showing in championships at two different levels on the same horse. It may be, as someone said, tacky, but it's within the rules. Should the rules change? Clearly if a horse is winning with terrific scores at second 4, it is overkill at first 4. Should they "win out" of a level, as I believe they do in Europe? (not that everything European is perfect, but it's an example).

Velvet
Oct. 7, 2009, 07:01 PM
Got to love the editing of the topic to remove any incriminating evidence. :rolleyes: People, no matter how young, need to learn that you live with what you post out here! It can't go away just because you removed it, someone out here will have a copy of it or will have references to pieces of it in their replies. It's NEVER gone. It will live on. So just be prepared! :lol:

(Maybe it shouldn't ever go away. That way it's a lesson that you'll never forget. Remember, life doesn't have a delete button. As we get older, we learn to live with those mistakes and hopefully grow from them. ;) )

Perfect Pony
Oct. 7, 2009, 07:04 PM
I do see a couple of issues with the rules that have been problematic for years and probably should change.

1. Jr/Yrs training and teaching for money but not considered professionals, technically amateurs. To me, this challenges the whole definition of professional and amateur and needs clarification. There may need to be Jr/Yr open division and a Jr/Yr amateur division, just like the adults have.

2. People showing in championships at two different levels on the same horse. It may be, as someone said, tacky, but it's within the rules. Should the rules change? Clearly if a horse is winning with terrific scores at second 4, it is overkill at first 4. Should they "win out" of a level, as I believe they do in Europe? (not that everything European is perfect, but it's an example).

Agreed. To be honest I am in shock that there are not separate divisions, and rules about competing at certain levels at Championships.

It's IMO absolutely ridiculous that a 21 year old professional would be competing against a 40 year old ammy or 18 year old junior rider. It's also ridiculous IMO that someone winning at 2nd level would be able to show in 2nd AND first level at the Championships.

Is this all just about getting $$ for entries?

narcisco
Oct. 7, 2009, 07:14 PM
Yes for part two.

For part one, the Jr/Yr been paid as a professional, I think our governing body (whose initials currently elude me, UASS?) is making a misguided attempt to help these young riders develop as professionals. Someone in a previous post talked about the cutting horse associations "apprentice trainer" division. This is the type of model we should be looking at.

Yeah, sure our original OP is venting. She is tired of being beaten in a case where she will never win. Not only is she competing against the number 1 young rider in the nation, she, and others like her, are also fighting some rules that set the system up to be inherently unfair.

mbp
Oct. 7, 2009, 07:25 PM
If the OP is a young rider, then she shouldn't be getting a bunch of sideswipes from old women just bc she was upset and wanted to vent.

Sideswipes aside, though, the issue of someone being able to ride all the time and on great horses doesn't go away when you get to the ammie/open divide. Quite a few ammies have very nice horses in training with great trainers - without them, it would be harder for some of the trainers we all get access to through lessons or clinics or just by railbirding to devote what they do to the sport.

And while you can let yourself get bummed out and look at it from a, "I'll never" direction, keep in mind what goes with the YR/"pro's" life. When she's not in school, she has horse commitments and lesson commitments and working in a family business commitments to meet. Not a quick ride, then out to a movie with friends or web surfing, but on to the next horse and the next one. And while she may get nice horses and have a support crew who can help her when she hits brick walls, no one trains a horse without hitting bad times. She has to go from riding the horse she learned tempis or piaffe etc. on to trying to put that on the next horse and no one always has angelic horses when they are trying to progress them.

When she does have a bad ride, a day when maybe she's not having happy things happen for her or a horse is grumpy and she would just as soon ditch it all, she'll have people standing there, ready to make snide comments and take a lot of potshots. The more you win, the nastier people are when you have a bad ride. So it's not all roses.

I'm old like Velvet (well, no one is as old as Velvet are they?) and remember the days before split classes. And the days when a lot of people thought you had an advantage if you had a OTTB to show instead of a qh that only did jog and lope.

Carol O
Oct. 7, 2009, 07:44 PM
OP! Imagine this!

It is the 2020 Olympic Games. Kassie has won the Gold. She is standing there on the podium, squinting into the setting sun as stars and stripes rise, and the music plays...

You will be able to say "I showed at the same shows with her...""

nomeolvides
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:29 PM
It's IMO absolutely ridiculous that a 21 year old professional would be competing against a 40 year old ammy or 18 year old junior rider. It's also ridiculous IMO that someone winning at 2nd level would be able to show in 2nd AND first level at the Championships.
Why? I'm genuinely just interested and trying to understand here. I really can't get the pro/amateur concept because I'm so used to pros and amateurs competing in the same competitions over here.

see u at x
Oct. 7, 2009, 08:29 PM
OP! Imagine this!

It is the 2020 Olympic Games. Kassie has won the Gold. She is standing there on the podium, squinting into the setting sun as stars and stripes rise, and the music plays...

You will be able to say "I showed at the same shows with her...""

Or that you showed against her. Even if she wins first place and you were to win second, what if it was only by a marginal score? Frankly, I'd feel pretty good about THAT. And no, I'm not trying to bash you...just trying to add another perspective to what Carol said. I'm not upset with you for venting...I get frustrated with some of my shows, too, although I've mainly been showing hunters the past couple of years.

And I agree with what danceronice said 100%. She put it extremely well.

NorCalDressage
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:02 PM
Oh what a tangled web we weave.........

sid
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:16 PM
...when first we practice to deceive...:lol:

Jeanne B
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:27 PM
[edit]
Fess up, grow up, and live with it.
You came to the wrong place if you are looking for this bunch to support you while you are acting like a spoiled teenager.
Dressage should be about improving your relationship with your horse - not about getting 1/10th of a point more than Kassie gets.
End of comment.

Kaelurus
Oct. 7, 2009, 09:43 PM
So I'm still pretty new around here, and I really don't know much of anything. I'm mostly just a lurker, but from the outside looking in, this is what I see:

OP begins thread by slamming a particular YR. Subsequent posts continue by slamming the OP. Seems like a vicious circle.

Perhaps rants such as these are best left ignored. I can't imagine these responses are teaching the OP anything about sportsmanship. Just my two cents. Going back to my usual hiding place now.

slc2
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:35 PM
Oh don't do that.

Fixerupper
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:50 PM
So I'm still pretty new around here, and I really don't know much of anything. I'm mostly just a lurker, but from the outside looking in, this is what I see: OP begins thread by slamming a particular YR. Subsequent posts continue by slamming the OP. Seems like a vicious circle.

Welcome to COTH!

Sometimes it's just about a reality check...no harm intended ;)

jumpytoo
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:50 PM
wasn't her point really.. that one rider competed in the championship in every division at the show? Seems like someone good enough to be doing that should skip the lowest level and/ or not bother with the kids class since they have obviously out grown the need to have an age break. She was just frustrated.

and yes some day she can maybe watch TV and say "I competed against her and she kicked my butt" big whoop..
alot more fun to say, I still compete against her,some days I am better and she's my friend.

OP do you think Debbie, Guenther and Steffan all hate each other because they are in competition? Heck no, they go out to dinner together, tell stories and enjoy the successes they earn. Then they get to a show and each rides the best ride they can. The scores are different every show, the horses may be different too but the people are gonna be the same.. so learn to enjoy where you are and the people who you will be seeing over and over in the comming years..

Fixerupper
Oct. 7, 2009, 10:54 PM
The scores are different every show, the horses may be different too but the people are gonna be the same.. so learn to enjoy where you are and the people who you will be seeing over and over in the coming years..

WOW...way too mature :lol::lol:

Arathita
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:31 PM
I feel sorry for the original poster, who has just shamed herself in public. This isn't a vent, it is a jealous diatribe of someone who is a poor sport.

This is a vent:

'I'm TIRED! I'm COLD! I had a long weekend! I wanted to win more ribbons!'

This is a jealous diatribe:

'She who shall not be named but easily can be guessed, sucks! So do all the judges that judge her!'

Me thinks the other little dressage wizards need to get out and practice riding their brooms a little more, and learn to be good sports, like Mr. POTTER.

You do not get it. That is expected because you do not show or train horses. I know who you are.

The OP is a junior. She is venting because a young professional, the daughter of a stellar professional, has won every Championship class from Training Level to I2 at the same show. You are ignorant if you believe she feels she is competing on anything near an level playing field. And unless you are a junior competeing at the show you have nothing to say. I am certain you would complain if this were you. To equate this to a Harry Potter book is just stupid.

To say that the OP should read these posts and grow up is also ignorant. I hope none of you have teenaged girls who work hard for a goal in lieu of of you spending thousands or hundreds of thousands for her to achieve it. I hope you tell them to just "get over it and grow up". What mothers.

Fixerupper
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:40 PM
Right...try competing against Totilas....
Mom can tell you all she wants how good you are :lol:

We only had two rules as kids
1- don't chew gum in public
2- don't say 'not fair'.....life's not fair...get on with it

(the gum thing....whatever :lol:)

Coreene
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:45 PM
Oh sweet bejayzus, if you want something that's purely skill and not $$ or Life Is Not Fair, play chess instead.

FancyFree
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:49 PM
You do not get it. That is expected because you do not show or train horses. I know who you are.

The OP is a junior. She is venting because a young professional, the daughter of a stellar professional, has won every Championship class from Training Level to I2 at the same show. You are ignorant if you believe she feels she is competing on anything near an level playing field. And unless you are a junior competeing at the show you have nothing to say. I am certain you would complain if this were you. To equate this to a Harry Potter book is just stupid.

To say that the OP should read these posts and grow up is also ignorant. I hope none of you have teenaged girls who work hard for a goal in lieu of of you spending thousands or hundreds of thousands for her to achieve it. I hope you tell them to just "get over it and grow up". What mothers.

Not having experience doesn't seem to stop one from pontificating on the internet though. :lol:

I have to say, dressage competition is never a level playing field though.

Fixerupper
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:00 AM
Oh sweet bejayzus, if you want something that's purely skill and not $$ or Life Is Not Fair, play chess instead.

Or jump the BIG fences...rail up...rail down...the rest is the clock!
.002 sec might not feel fair either...but it won the Masters at Spruce Meadows

My Mom always thought I was THE BEST...sadly she wasn't an FEI judge

Coreene
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:04 AM
Or jump the BIG fences...rail up...rail down...the rest is the clock!
.002 sec might not feel fair either...but it won the Masters at Spruce Meadows

Bah, then someone would ride against you on A HORSE THAT COST MORE and that would not be fair! Or they would practice more than you and ride better and that would not be fair!

Fixerupper
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:05 AM
Yah...sooo not fair

Arathita
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:09 AM
Not having experience doesn't seem to stop one from pontificating on the internet though. :lol:

I have to say, dressage competition is never a level playing field though.


Dressage competition is not always a level playing field but the distinction between YR, AA, and open is an attempt to level it. Have you ever ridden against someone in your division who wins every class from Training to I2? How would you feel if a AA won every championship class from training to I2 and took money for training? KB is not your average Jr/YR. Who does not believe this? I have not ridden against such a person but I can tell you I do not spend this much money to show and come in second place. I train with a judge and have a good idea about my ability to execute an movement when I am riding it.

Allow the OP to vent. It does not impact you.

Fixerupper
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:11 AM
I'm so not impacted....
When did America start hating success?....that's such a Canadian thing

Rear*Buck*Rear
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:15 AM
so then to keep in on somewhat of the original topic:

Judging is subjective and it always will be. This does not necessarily mean that someone wins because of their last name, nor does it mean that they do not. It means you need to ride for yourself.

That it seems as though the OP is wanting to now back peddle in life. And maybe this girl, with a high level gelding, who rides 1st level and did not go to her own awards ceremony because she was upset about her placing, should own up to her faults (not lie) and learn from them.

None of us is perfect, and no one, not even Miss Kassie Barteau, wins everything, but she doesn't throw a hissy fit. This is about a lesson in LIFE that seems sorely needed for the OP. Everyone has their days in the sun- and that was Kassie's day (as are many--- but thats the girls LIFE.) Ride for the feeling you get when you feel so in sync with your horse that everything else melts away. And if you've lost that and you're all about the ribbons (listening OP?) then quit, because you'll never be happy with it, and its your horse that will suffer.

Coreene
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:17 AM
See, and I think splitting it into Jr, AA and open is like AYSO soccer, where you can come in last place and still get a trophy.

Fixerupper
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:21 AM
so then to keep in on somewhat of the original topic:

Judging is subjective and it always will be. This does not necessarily mean that someone wins because of their last name, nor does it mean that they do not. It means you need to ride for yourself.

That it seems as though the OP is wanting to now back peddle in life. And maybe this girl, with a high level gelding, who rides 1st level and did not go to her own awards ceremony because she was upset about her placing, should own up to her faults (not lie) and learn from them.

None of us is perfect, and no one, not even Miss Kassie Barteau, wins everything, but she doesn't throw a hissy fit. This is about a lesson in LIFE that seems sorely needed for the OP. Everyone has their days in the sun- and that was Kassie's day (as are many--- but thats the girls LIFE.) Ride for the feeling you get when you feel so in sync with your horse that everything else melts away. And if you've lost that and you're all about the ribbons (listening OP?) then quit, because you'll never be happy with it, and its your horse that will suffer.

You speak wisely Grasshopper

FancyFree
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:38 AM
Oh sweet bejayzus, if you want something that's purely skill and not $$ or Life Is Not Fair, play chess instead.

:lol:

What else? Marathon running, swimming, barrel racing, jumpers...the choices are endless.


but thats the girls LIFE

Very true. If you are always going to be bitter when faced with people who have more advantages than you, well, you are always going to be bitter. There's always going to be someone better with more.

It's like that Sheryl Crowe song: "It's not having what you want. It's wanting what you've got."

wbhorseusa
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:57 AM
You do not get it. That is expected because you do not show or train horses. I know who you are.

The OP is a junior. She is venting because a young professional, the daughter of a stellar professional, has won every Championship class from Training Level to I2 at the same show. You are ignorant if you believe she feels she is competing on anything near an level playing field. And unless you are a junior competeing at the show you have nothing to say. I am certain you would complain if this were you. To equate this to a Harry Potter book is just stupid.

To say that the OP should read these posts and grow up is also ignorant. I hope none of you have teenaged girls who work hard for a goal in lieu of of you spending thousands or hundreds of thousands for her to achieve it. I hope you tell them to just "get over it and grow up". What mothers.

you know, never mind

AZ TD
Oct. 8, 2009, 01:38 AM
Yes, life is not fair. However, there is a regional championship evaluation form that everyone should fill out with good and bad info. The regional championship committee reviews all of them, seriously!
If you read The Way to Perfect Horsemanship by Udo Berger, he states in conclusion "Yet, when all is said and done, what matters most is the love of the horse and riding for pleasure is as worthy a motive as riding to win in competitions" on the last page of his book.
Theresa

Fixerupper
Oct. 8, 2009, 01:49 AM
To say that the OP should read these posts and grow up is also ignorant. I hope none of you have teenaged girls who work hard for a goal in lieu of of you spending thousands or hundreds of thousands for her to achieve it. I hope you tell them to just "get over it and grow up". What mothers.

We have ALL been 'teen-aged girls who work hard for a goal'....some have reached that goal... others (most of us) have adjusted to reality and found a realistic (and reasonably satisfying) alternative goal that doesn't involve spending "thousands or hundreds thousands' that we didn't/don't have. We 'got over it'!
In my work in the horse business I have experienced parents who don't have the $$$ who have gone overboard to provided a 'positive experience' for their kids and ended up stiffing the stable, trainer, vet, blacksmith.. etc.
Great example there....what mothers indeed!

Instill in your kids a sense of responsibility and reality...not just entitlement....that is real parenting.

slc2
Oct. 8, 2009, 05:16 AM
I think encouraging the kind of thinking the OP is showing and sympathizing with her, are the most damaging things any of you can possibly do for her.

I didn't fail to support because I despise the kid. I did that because the LAST thing I want her to do is take on the same negative, bitter, unproductive attitudes those who support her take on.

There's two positions here, 'I was mad after a show and competitors who win and judges suck so it's ok to be mad after a show', isn't the one that's going to lead to any sort of success or satisfaction. The only place that leads to is a whole lot of people who sit around and get some sort of cold comfort by getting others to be as bitter as them.

AnnaCrew
Oct. 8, 2009, 06:00 AM
The one thing about horses - there's always going to be someone with more time, money, or better horses than you. Sometimes it does just have to be about the journey.

Very well said! If you want ribbons, go to the tack shop and buy them - they are way cheaper there than these that you can get at the show :)

Life is not fair, for sure, and it will be much easier for you if you will learn it early. You can buy the best Dressage horse and still go nowhere, and you can go very high with absolutely "not" horse. You know, German rider Ulla was winning with horse Rusty years ago. Check on Internet for them. You know - Rusty was a cart horse in a rural farm plowing potatoes before he become top Dressage level winner. And to be honest - he had his faults even then. He was purchased for about 1000$ if that. :)

Ask yourself - are you working with your horse because of ribbons or because you love working with your horse? If because of the love, just go from one step to another - stop looking at others, just enjoy every small achievement with your horse! Your achievement! And be happy then!

egontoast
Oct. 8, 2009, 06:03 AM
:confused: slc, do you ever read what others posted before you complain about what they have said?

You are not unique in your opinion. Most people here have not supported this type of attitude. I don't see where anyone said they 'despise' the OP, though. Where do you get this stuff?

slc2
Oct. 8, 2009, 06:18 AM
Same place you get your stuff.

Trakehner
Oct. 8, 2009, 06:46 AM
I'd suggest she try hunters...no more biased horse judging in the world than hunters.

I used to judge hunters, I wasn't popular with the majority of show secretaries and the show management who paid me, only the competitors...I didn't put the barn trainers and their students first often enough, I didn't care who the BNTs were or which trainer went to school with the BO. I heard all sorts of reasons WHY this and that one should win. Nope, sorry, don't care...best rider in this class wins. Seems simple, eh?

Just think of the people who lost to Anky VanG...and she didn't even bother to come to a halt in her test..."But she's Anky" they whined..."She could have stopped if she wanted to"....Jeeze, wipe the brown off your nose at least.

slc2
Oct. 8, 2009, 07:10 AM
That wasn't quite what was said. Well, that was not at all what was said.

Saying they choose not to lose points during a test, and do some strategizing, just as everyone else does when they are in the ring and they know they can lose more points if they don't, isn't exactly the same as saying 'I love anky because she didn't halt in her test'.

This isn't brown nosing, it's just facts.

It is just what they all do. Same as creeping forward alot in a piaffe or doing a big pirouette. They are experienced enough to know to pick something to do that will lose them fewer points. They don't feel right then, that the horse is going to stand there and piaffe, they let it go a little forward, lot fewer points lost.

The question is, do you want to go for a solid 6 or 7, or risk a 0? You go for the solid 6 or 7. People have won very big competitions just by being conservative and that is often part of an overall strategy. On another day, they can take more risks. Horses are different every day.

You may have assumed a positive connotation on the words used, or, like most people, without any grounds at all, just are trying to make a statement into something it was not so you have something to push against.

To me, 'strategizing' is a completely neutral word, not negative or positive. It means a competitive rider thinks through what will lose him more points and what will lose him less. He's competing and on that day his job is to get the best score. And he's experienced enough and quick enough that he can choose.

As is the fact that she and her trainer would have discussed halting before the competition, as it was said they did. Very few points would be lost and the horse would score better on the rest of the movements.

Whether the horse SHOULD halt better, is to me, a completely different question and people were trying to make choices one makes during a competition the same as the training process, which it isn't. When you get to the show, you have the horse on that day that you have on that day. That's just how it is.

And if someone with the experience of an AVG DOESN'T sit down and talk with her trainer about these choices, I would be very shocked. They know, when they warmup the horse on the day, how he is going to be and make a lot of choices. And I do believe they are pretty able to make more choices, right in the moment of the test and react with a choice that will score them better. In fact I think that a ton of that goes on, all the time, in split second time.

They know well enough how the movement will be scored, how their horse is reacting, to do that.

Fact is, the horse does halt rather well in the warmup and in schooling. Anyone who cares enough to actually gather some factual information, will discover that. And that AVG in her warmup for that competition, halted and halted and halted, very well. And she probably knows that horse well enough, especially after that warmup, to tell how he's going to do in the freestyle halt, and make a choice that gets more points.

This is something every competitive rider is taught, from into A to GP at the Olympics. It is a technical process, and one can admire it as one can admire any technical process.

MissBri
Oct. 8, 2009, 07:48 AM
to the OP
Dressage competitions are called tests for a reason. The are designed to evaluate progress made in the partnership of horse and rider. Your true goal should always be to improve from one test to the next, until true harmony is reached and you feel like you are dancing with your horse.
The comments most judges make on your test should give you something to work upon before your next test. Nice comments are pleasant, but they don't give you stuff to improve on.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is.....learn to deal with life's disappointments and what you perceive to be unfairness in a more gracious way. Usually sour grapes simply reflects badly on you - even to those that seem to agree with you.

egontoast
Oct. 8, 2009, 08:06 AM
Same place you get your stuff.

Nope. Thank god.

Moderator 1
Oct. 8, 2009, 08:10 AM
Considering some efforts to "out" the OP and the pages of opportunity already provided for folks to respond to her comments, and the OP's habits of posting and deleting, we're going to close this thread at this point with a reminder re: our posting policies --

Rule #1: You're responsible for what you say.

All posters should be mindful that the horse/Internet world can be very small and that comments here are not made into a vacuum. Other folks are going to respond and discuss, so you have to be prepared to deal with the repercussions of your statements. Particularly when feeling the need to "vent" over something, it's probably a good time to hold off and wait until passions are running a little lower.

Thanks,
Mod 1