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View Full Version : How much of a deal breaker is OCD in a PPE for you? UPDATE ON POST#19!



faraway46
Oct. 4, 2009, 08:22 PM
I'll give you a little brief before I go on:
I found an amazing 2 yo stallion 2 colt by Cardento from a breeder friend. It was love at first sight. He has huge bone and stands 1.66 (over 16h) at the age of 2!!! He is huge but light,very smart and has floating gaits. I decided to buy him and gave a downpayment to my friend (to stop other offers) and went along with the PPE.
First they found he had a tiny injury in his check ligament (front right) which needed two months stall rest. We decided to postpone any more tests till he recovered from that. Three mo later we were back on the PPE and he scanned clean and ready to go, but when we went ahead with the xrays, he showed OCD in both hocks (more on left than right). He is not lame nor is there any inflamation. Also, the colt has gone through no training whatsoever (by this I mean jumping shute exercises), so it is not due to overexertion. I would guess it is from a big growth spurt due to his size...
My vet said that he might never show symptoms or you can operate with much success and it can even come out so clean that it will not show in a future PPE, but even so, I have heard that buying a horse with OCD is a nightmare. If you operate and he comes out as good as new, why is it such a big deal? Are the odds bigger than they are telling me? Also I would like to have him as a breeding stallion, but it is said he can give his future colts OCD due to his size genes...
What would you do? Should I go along with the buy, asking for a considerable discount due to new circumstances? I haven't seen him jumping yet, so now I would like to consider that first and then get into the dealing...but if he turns out to be a rockstar over jumps, should I risk it?
Thanks for the opinions,
Viv

Fluffie
Oct. 4, 2009, 08:36 PM
I bought a 4-year-old that had an OCD in his right hock removed. It has never been a problem for him as far as I know. ;) So, I would do it again.

luckeys71
Oct. 4, 2009, 09:08 PM
Would the owners consider having the surgery done, THEN selling the horse? That way you are not taking the risks associated with the surgery. Once the surgery is complete and successful, then you could buy him. Send the radiographs to a good surgeon and see what they think the prognosis is. With no symptoms at all, if the fragments are easily removed, I would see no reasons that this should be an issue. I understand that the hock is the joint with the best post surgical outcomes. I would feel good about buying the horse with a surgeon's OK post surgery.
Fast growth is one of the factors that are believed to be related to OCD development. Lack of turnout/exercise for youngsters is another, as is high levels of concentrated feeds being fed to youngsters, along with mineral imbalances. It is a very complex process. I would think that it is something to factor into a breeding horse, but knowing there may be genetic predisposing factors would allow you to make proper management decisions with the offspring.

2foals
Oct. 4, 2009, 09:29 PM
I think that if the OCD is located on both sides, then it is more likely to be genetic. Something like 30% or more of all warmbloods have OCDs. As far as a future as a performance horse, if you have a good veterinary surgeon who does a lot of these, the surgery isn't a big deal (esp. for hock lesions). The younger the better, though, for having the surgery done. There was a study done showing that young racehorses with a history of OCD were MORE successful than those without, possibly because the biggest horses are the ones who are predisposed to it. Still, having to have OCD surgery is expensive and annoying. I personally would not want to breed a mare to a stallion that I knew had a history of bilateral OCD lesions.

Windswept Stable
Oct. 4, 2009, 09:53 PM
Majorly a deal breaker as a breeding stallion.

goodmorning
Oct. 4, 2009, 10:08 PM
I might see if I can get a hold of the x-ray report of Cardento to find out if this is genetic. He is KWPN so somewhere you should be able to get some information regarding his radiographs?? Having seen a few Cardentos, I wouldn't be surprised to see some OCD lesions as they are big & lankey horses. I found a Cardento that even I would like to take around the big jumper ring, very cool (and scopey!) horse.

RumoursFollow
Oct. 4, 2009, 10:17 PM
I had a horse that I bought about ten years ago who was a big (i think his measurement card was like 17.3 1/4) hefty old warmblood thing.. when I vetted him he had an OCD lesion in one hock (might have been in two, but I dont think so). Vet at.. Morven? I think, told me that the place on his hock that it was was a superficial thing and would never be an issue for him. I was barely more than a teenager at the time and had honestly never even heard of OCD. I blindly took the vets advice and was never sorry. I had him as a pre-green horse, sold him on as a junior hunter, then did the AOs, and I believe he is still around and still doing the 3ft. He was Hannoverian, by Wertherson.

He was a mean SOB, but for the kindness he showed me and his ability I'd take another one a heartbeat. :yes:

catsmom
Oct. 4, 2009, 10:48 PM
My 2 cents.

I work as an equine anesthesia technician here in Florida. We do surgeries on OCDs on a regular basis with much success. If it were my situation, I would try to get the seller to reduce the purchase price and then I’d have the surgery done (of course this would be based on having a surgeon evaluating radiographs). I noticed that you are from Argentina, so I am not familiar with any surgeons from there. Whatever your decision, I wish you the best of luck--the horse sounds quite lovely.

If you have any further questions that I may help you with, please feel free to PM me!

French Twist
Oct. 5, 2009, 12:55 AM
bought a weanling from germany, had ocd in a stifle, had surgery, is now 8, and has never taken a lame step before or after surgery. has also never really been heavily pounded or overridden/competed, but he did show in low level jumpers til sold as a dressage horse as a 6y/o to my friend. as far as i know he's still very sound.

i also have a mare and would not breed to a stallion who had ocd surgery in both hocks. especially because it's the hocks, a typically sensitive area when it comes to lameness anyway. not a chance i'd wanna risk passing that onto babies.

maybe if you love him, buy him, geld him, fix the ocd and enjoy his jumper career?

Samotis
Oct. 5, 2009, 01:06 AM
If you are planning to keep him a breeding stallion then this issue would be more of a problem.

Most people won't breed to a stallion that has OCD.

If you plan on keeping him to show regardless of if he stays a stallion or not then I don't see why it would be an issue, especially if the surgery is low risk.

Lkramer
Oct. 5, 2009, 10:56 AM
If available, check radiographs of the parents to see if it is infact inherited. OCDs often scare people away, but show no problems throughout the horses career. OCDs can be cleaned up relatively easy, and sometimes grown out of. I would talk to the owner about having a contract pending successfull surgery per her expense. I personally have had huge deals killed because of OCDs, despite the fact that all of my vets advised against the unnecessary surgery as they were completely sound.

MDHorseGirl
Nov. 30, 2009, 11:45 PM
I have a dutch mare that had OCD in her left fetlock removed that I think came from being fed too much/growing too fast with previous owners, she is now 7 and never has been off on it at all. Granted, due to EPM, she really has not been ridden much. I can tell you for sure, at least with the KWPN, if you want to get the stallion approved for breeding Dutch, they are very picky about the radiographs. I attended an educational seminar at a Keuring this year and they emphasized that. They did not say they don't take any and I think they have in fact relaxed the standards somewhat, but the KWPN is known for having exceptional stallions and very high standards of all breeding stock. You can also get a really awesome resource if you can get your hands on it from the KPWN in the NEtherlands, it is a report of the stallion's produce and how the ones that were inspected scored and his scoring at approvals and other useful info. It's not on their website so you would probably have to contact them directly.

Timex
Dec. 1, 2009, 11:08 AM
As far as for a riding horse, I wouldn't be too put off by OCD, if it looked like there is a good prognosis and he hasn't shown any issues. Definitely show the radiographs to a few surgeons and get their opinions. I had a clients horse have the surgery on both hocks last dec, and the horse is doing great. Now, as a breeding stallion, I'd definitely have to think twice about breeding a mare to a stud with OCD issues. There are enough nice stallions out there without those issues to choose from already, why potentially set myself up for lameness issues if I don't have to?

REH
Dec. 1, 2009, 11:41 AM
It all depends on where the OCD is and whether it's a superficial area or an area where it would cause a problem. For example, I once vetted a 3-y-o who had a slightly clubby front right. Vet then did a shoulder flexion on her because said often the two are connected--foot grows clubby because not bearing enough weight on that side and blood flow is different. Slight positive on shoulder flexion and then the xrayed it and found an OCD--it was in a problem area obviously. The owners weren't willing to do the surgery and I never heard the horse doing much of anything after that. Anyway, the OCD in the shoulder caused her to carry her weight unevenly which caused her to end up with a club foot. Some areas are problems, some are not. I still shy away from any horse that has OCDs on xrays unless it's been in regular work for a sustained period of time so I know it's not going to be a problem.

AnotherRound
Dec. 1, 2009, 11:54 AM
Here's a good article outlining the condition and treatments. Towards the bottom they discuss surgery. Much like what has already been postulated on this thread.

http://www.recoveryeq.com/osteochondrosis_horses.htm

One thing this article mentions is the possibility that if the OCD is occuring in a young horse, its worthwhile to delay surgery somewhat to see if it heals on its own, or continues, but cautions not to wait too long for surgery, because the complications are compensation injuries and further joint damage. The article seems to encourage early life surgery and also does say that it is considered genetic when found in young horses of big breeds.

Personally? considering your interest in the horse, I would buy him, negotiate a lower price for him on account of the surgery, have the surgery done myself, and enjoy this horse. I would not, however breed him if I did determing that this was genetic, and my sense is that it is, personally. I would geld him and enjoy the animal.

Good luck.

findeight
Dec. 1, 2009, 12:04 PM
Well, I have bought them...older and in the work and on the schedual I was needing them for. There is a committment to keeping an eye on work load and footing and being willing to perform any needed procedures-surgery or injections-deemed necessary.

BUT...in a 2 year old never in work that has also had 2 months stall rest with a front check ligament????

Three points here...

1) For every glowing success story of horses staying sound with all sorts of conditions...there are 10 stories of careers ending abruptly or never getting started and mega vet bills.

2) Never make excuses for unsoundness or bad performance in a horse you are considering buying. The OCD and check ligament injury may NOT be just because he is so big so early. And there may be more ahead.

3) Never do business with family or friends. Because you cannot make an informed and unbiased decision based of facts. You are worried you will hurt feelings and damage your relationship.

Last of all, this is NOT a breeding stallion prospect with almost 10% of his young life spent on stall rest and potentially performance limiting OCD.

gottagrey
Dec. 1, 2009, 05:44 PM
Agree w/ FindEight.

Depending on the purchase price -actually forget the price,I think I would bale out on this prospect for 2 reasons - check ligament and OCD. There are too many nice horses out there needing homes... unless the owners are willing to pay for surgery, I'd ask for deposit back.

faraway46
Dec. 14, 2009, 05:45 PM
As always Findeight hit the nail on the head, specially on the "don't do business with friends" part.
I passed on the colt, but not because I was doubting due to the PPE. Not only did I not get a reduction in price, as logically one would ask for because of all the expense and hassle of surgery (and not to mention a not so perfect PPE in ligaments either), but she increased it 20%!!! This was done once I had already done the PPE and paid for it, which I think is not correct because you can not change a price of a horse once you've paid for your vet (that is like a downpayment on ther horse with what those test cost today!!!). I agreed to the full asking price of $15000 and she rose it to $18000!!! I offered back $16,500 in three payments (33% cash, 30 days 33% and 34% 60 days later) and she said $18000 all cash or nothing. I answered "ok...nothing", but unfortunately I paid for a PPE on a horse I could not buy on the price it was offered..
This happened because she offered the horse to someone else in the meantime (it took 2 weeks of exams to get a thorough idea of what to encounter) and she said it was too long so she offered the horse to someone else who was willing to pay $18000. This person eventually didn't buy the horse either when he did his PPE. Of course she called later to see if I was still interested, and I said no.
I personally don't think it was correct to show the horse to someone else while I was donig the PPE nor was it right to up the price...so even if I still like the colt (and it would be for personal use, not resale...), I will not foster these attitudes...
Anyways, when there's a wrong there's a right...Luckily 2 weeks later I found a beautiful Darco mare for $15000 4 y.o., backed and ready to start her career with a perfect PPE. So down the road, I am grateful she through a diva fit...;).
These are pics of the mare:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2407331090049866518HNBTXe
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2366677570049866518adarAA
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2461493850049866518VOHYFE

kid rock
Dec. 14, 2009, 06:16 PM
very nice!

SOTB
Dec. 14, 2009, 07:22 PM
Sounds like that first horse just wasn't meant to be for you. Glad to hear you found something else!

shawneeAcres
Dec. 14, 2009, 07:27 PM
I am glad everything worked out for you. I will say this though about showing the horse to someone while you are doing an extended PPE. THe way I handle this is, if someone wants the horse "held" for a PPE they are required to give me a non-refundable deposit. I sell a lot of horses for other people, and my job is to get the horse sold. If someone wants me to "hold" a horse for a two week period, and meanwhile another buyer shows up, I cannot justify to the owner that I held their horse. If no deposit, then I would notify the first prospective buyer that I ahve another interested party. If that party is willing to buy the horse without a PPE (rare, but does happen) then I offer the horse to the first perso, for the agreed upon asking price without the PPE, otherwise I would sell to the second person. If the second person wants to do a PPE and is willing to schedule it and have it doen immediately, I woudl again notify the first person of this but if they purchase horse then that would be the new owner. Of course, if a non-refundable deposit (which pays the owner for taking the horse off the market) is received then the horse is held until the PPE is finalized. I recently had such a situation where one person had made an appointment to see a horse. The second person calls, and wants me to hold the horse for them, but they were out of town. I told them the only way I could do that was with a non-refudable deposit, which they mailed me. I told the first person that I had a deposit and would notify them if the horse became available. Second person came a week later, rode horse, vetted horse next day and purchased the horse. As long as everyone is clear about this up front (which I do make prospective buyer's aware of my policy) there is no issue. Of course I would NEVER raise the price the way the person the OP was dealing with did. That is not acting in a professional manner in my opinion!

Florida Fan
Dec. 14, 2009, 08:02 PM
There are too many stallions out there that are proven, and do not have ocd's. Hard to prove a stallion that people will breed a mare to, let alone one that has ocd's and a ligament issue. He may be a wonderful performance gelding that you love and enjoy, but it would be a hard sell to have others breed a mare to him.

faraway46
Dec. 15, 2009, 07:39 AM
I am glad everything worked out for you. I will say this though about showing the horse to someone while you are doing an extended PPE. THe way I handle this is, if someone wants the horse "held" for a PPE they are required to give me a non-refundable deposit. I sell a lot of horses for other people, and my job is to get the horse sold. If someone wants me to "hold" a horse for a two week period, and meanwhile another buyer shows up, I cannot justify to the owner that I held their horse. If no deposit, then I would notify the first prospective buyer that I ahve another interested party. If that party is willing to buy the horse without a PPE (rare, but does happen) then I offer the horse to the first perso, for the agreed upon asking price without the PPE, otherwise I would sell to the second person. If the second person wants to do a PPE and is willing to schedule it and have it doen immediately, I woudl again notify the first person of this but if they purchase horse then that would be the new owner. Of course, if a non-refundable deposit (which pays the owner for taking the horse off the market) is received then the horse is held until the PPE is finalized. I recently had such a situation where one person had made an appointment to see a horse. The second person calls, and wants me to hold the horse for them, but they were out of town. I told them the only way I could do that was with a non-refudable deposit, which they mailed me. I told the first person that I had a deposit and would notify them if the horse became available. Second person came a week later, rode horse, vetted horse next day and purchased the horse. As long as everyone is clear about this up front (which I do make prospective buyer's aware of my policy) there is no issue. Of course I would NEVER raise the price the way the person the OP was dealing with did. That is not acting in a professional manner in my opinion!

Very good policy, but I did not get a heads up on the situation like you would have done. It took two weeks to decide not because I was wrongfully delaying the deal but because issues kept comming up on the PPE that needed more insight. Unfortunately vets have their schedules and even though they were as quick as they could be to do all the testing, it took two weeks (I had to do full ligament scan, blood tests for arteritis and piroplasmosis which takes 72hs, full set of normal x-rays, then digital x-rays, consult with a surgeon and get a surgery estimate and then have them interconsult with my vet to get an overview of the situation...etc).
I might think the best way to go is that if you reject my offer of the initial asking price because you have a better offer (which I understand...why pass up more profit?), then offer to reimburse the PPE if you sell the horse at a better price. In my opinion, if you ofered me a horse for x amount and I paid for a PPE, I already have some money "invested" in the deal. If I agree to my end of the deal (the full asking price), I am entitled to the horse or my money back for the PPE because the horse didn't die in the midst of this, it was offered to someone else...She still has her horse, but I am $$$ less because of a PPE for a horse that I couldn't buy even if I agreed 100% to the price...
Just my two cents at the end of this deal.

findeight
Dec. 15, 2009, 11:08 AM
Wow, guess you know the true nature of your "friendship" now? Not like she turned down another offer either.

Jacking the price because of a PPE you paid for that does verify both the OCD and the check ligament troubles is delusional. Some friend.

But live and learn-NEVER order up a PPE on a horse you don't have a signed contract in place on.

My geek/Trekkie side wants to mention the Ferengi "Rules of Aquisition"...Never let friendship get in the way of Profit.

Never let friendship get in the way of a proper business deal. And never trust friends not to try to screw you. Quark was right.

YankeeLawyer
Dec. 15, 2009, 11:19 AM
As always Findeight hit the nail on the head, specially on the "don't do business with friends" part.
I passed on the colt, but not because I was doubting due to the PPE. Not only did I not get a reduction in price, as logically one would ask for because of all the expense and hassle of surgery (and not to mention a not so perfect PPE in ligaments either), but she increased it 20%!!! This was done once I had already done the PPE and paid for it, which I think is not correct because you can not change a price of a horse once you've paid for your vet (that is like a downpayment on ther horse with what those test cost today!!!). I agreed to the full asking price of $15000 and she rose it to $18000!!! I offered back $16,500 in three payments (33% cash, 30 days 33% and 34% 60 days later) and she said $18000 all cash or nothing. I answered "ok...nothing", but unfortunately I paid for a PPE on a horse I could not buy on the price it was offered..
This happened because she offered the horse to someone else in the meantime (it took 2 weeks of exams to get a thorough idea of what to encounter) and she said it was too long so she offered the horse to someone else who was willing to pay $18000. This person eventually didn't buy the horse either when he did his PPE. Of course she called later to see if I was still interested, and I said no.
I personally don't think it was correct to show the horse to someone else while I was donig the PPE nor was it right to up the price...so even if I still like the colt (and it would be for personal use, not resale...), I will not foster these attitudes...
Anyways, when there's a wrong there's a right...Luckily 2 weeks later I found a beautiful Darco mare for $15000 4 y.o., backed and ready to start her career with a perfect PPE. So down the road, I am grateful she through a diva fit...;).
These are pics of the mare:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2407331090049866518HNBTXe
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2366677570049866518adarAA

Congratulations on your new horse.

BTW, I think the first seller's conduct was outrageous and I would not have let her pull that. But I also think you dodged a bullet.

horsepoor
Dec. 15, 2009, 12:30 PM
I suspect the "friend" is now kicking herself as she lost both deals - you and the new person - and still has the horse. A friend of mine went through something similar -- price agreed to, vetting underway, and seller decided to sell to someone else. At least the seller DID reimburse my friend for the PPE costs. Friend really wanted the horse, so that was the worst part of it, but at least she didn't lose money on it, which would have made it worse.

Congrats on the mare -- she looks fun!

mpack
Dec. 15, 2009, 02:12 PM
Lovely! Congratulations :-)

mvp
Dec. 15, 2009, 08:16 PM
Great story! I learned lots from it and from the other posts.

I can't imagine doing a PPE without a top price in hand. IMO, it can only go down after a PPE.

I don't understand the non-refundable deposit while PPE appointment or results are pending. Shawnee-- is that a flat rate or percentage of the horse's price? As a buyer, that policy strikes me as somewhere between high pressure and punitive. The more expensive the horse, the more the buyer needs a thorough PPE. Perhaps I'm an uncool dork, but I can't imagine that people buying high-end horses are willing to pay for the privilege of having a seller wait while they do "due diligence" in the form of a promptly scheduled PPE.

In this case, the owner made a bad decision-- but perhaps she knows that by now. If you are on good terms with the owner and want to try to recoup some of your loss, you might offer to sell her the radiographs at your cost. Many buyers will want their vets to retake these, but it can sometimes help an owner's case to have a set on hand. Of course, she may want to begin "fresh" with the next (unsuspecting) buyer. But I'd guess that anyone vetting a 15K horse will find the OCD.

alteringwego
Dec. 16, 2009, 08:41 AM
sounds like you got out just in time. Definitely a good idea to pass on the stallion. Nice mare btw.

shawneeAcres
Dec. 16, 2009, 12:36 PM
Great story! I learned lots from it and from the other posts.

I can't imagine doing a PPE without a top price in hand. IMO, it can only go down after a PPE.

I don't understand the non-refundable deposit while PPE appointment or results are pending. Shawnee-- is that a flat rate or percentage of the horse's price? As a buyer, that policy strikes me as somewhere between high pressure and punitive. The more expensive the horse, the more the buyer needs a thorough PPE. Perhaps I'm an uncool dork, but I can't imagine that people buying high-end horses are willing to pay for the privilege of having a seller wait while they do "due diligence" in the form of a promptly scheduled PPE.

In this case, the owner made a bad decision-- but perhaps she knows that by now. If you are on good terms with the owner and want to try to recoup some of your loss, you might offer to sell her the radiographs at your cost. Many buyers will want their vets to retake these, but it can sometimes help an owner's case to have a set on hand. Of course, she may want to begin "fresh" with the next (unsuspecting) buyer. But I'd guess that anyone vetting a 15K horse will find the OCD.

TO answer this, my "holding fee" is actually a "one week lease", which includes a trial (assuming owner OK's it) if the person wants that. So it is more than just a fee to hold the horse. BUT if the person wants the horse held for vetting and declines a trial it is the same regardless. Sorry but I am taking horse off the market and losing potential sales. That will come off the price if they purchase, but is non-refundable without purchase. Otherwise, they take their chances. Obviosuly I will not sell the horse if the PPE results are pending or something, but if they tell me they want to PPE next week and I already have anotehr appointment set up for horse to be seen, then they ahve to make a decision. When I do let horses on "on trial" I tell them to schedule the vetting PRIOR TO taking the horse so that it can be done within the "trial" period. If they decide they don't want the horse, they can always cancel it. I am not "unreasonable" and try very hard to work with a buyer, but within reason. I am not going to be yanked around for a month, lose sales and then have the person walk away and have no money to show for it. Then the owner has just wasted another month of board and other expenses on the horse.

flyracing
Dec. 16, 2009, 07:32 PM
Well, I for one will NEVER put a down payment on a horse to hold for prepurchase again. We rode the horse on Monday, one time, about 40 minutes and about 10 efforts on jumps up to 3'. He was 5 with no show record known. Vetting was scheduled on friday (earliest it would fit in HER vets schedule).Trainer (and another client horse shopping) were to arrive on Thursday. Trainer rode this horse and the horse other person was interested in. Trainer rode the horse for 10 minutes, but thought he was lame behind and got off. The sellers claim she didn't know what a nice moving horse moved like. That would make sense since my trainer had trained her own 2 horses to GP with scores in the upper sixties on both :lol:. We had to vet the horse because we put 2,000 down on the horse which was required to do a vetting (no, "we could sell him before friday, but you could put down a deposit" it was mandatory to preform the vetting) and could only receive the money back if he "didn't pass". Now, I know your going to say, why couldn't you see the lameness yourself... I don't know, I was 14 and had only been riding full time for a year, so only really recognized head bobbing lameness at this time. I'm sure he was well rested and drugged before I got there. You can probably guess where the story is going. The vet flexed him 3/5 lame on one hind and 2/5 lame on the other. He quietly made the comment to my trainer that the horse had made no improvement since his last prepurchase that was done the week before :eek:. We decided at this point to not continue with diagnostics although I'm sure the owner would have enjoyed a free full work up. The broker/barn owner/trainer then went on to tell us the horse was lame because of how we rode him, BUT he was sound for intended use, which was listed on the contract as "higher jumpers"!:eek: They recommended we buy the horse because the vetting was not indicative of the horse's soundness :lol: and said there would be no return of the deposit because as it said in the contract, he was "sound for intended use." And no, the vet did not say the horse was sound for a jumping career or any riding, the owner did. So, it was her word against ours. We tried to get the check cancelled as soon as we got back in the rental car, but it had been cashed on TUESDAY!

My barn mate was vetting horse at the same time (she rode him the day before and put a 4,000 deposit down to be allowed to vet him the next day). He vetted with the usual expected for a horse of his age and mileage, but when they did xrays, they found he had a plate screwed into his cannon bone on a front leg and clear bone remodeling from and old fracture :eek: Now, I don't have a problem with someone trying to sell a I1 dressage horse that had a broken leg earlier in his career, but they had a person remortgage their house in hopes of buying their dream horse, fly 1200 miles with their trainer (we split trainer costs), missing two days of work, and so on, to find out they then spent $800 vetting a horse with a plate in his leg! There was way too much dishonesty going on. The only good news from the whole week was that the other person was able to cancel their check successfully.

So no, I will not put a deposit on a horse for a vetting. If another person wants to come behind me and put an offer on the horse and go with no vetting (or get a faster one) I would hope the seller would let me know and give me first chance to purchase, move up the vetting, ect. Under no circumstance is it ethical for an owner to raise the price of the horse after the vetting process has begun (or keep a deposit on a lame horse ;))

flyracing
Dec. 16, 2009, 07:34 PM
PS This was in the extended Denver area, so if you are horse shopping in eastern Colorado, feel free to PM me and I will give you the person's full info. They have a barn full of beautiful imported warmbloods and some with problems they will sell to the first sucker.

shawneeAcres
Dec. 16, 2009, 09:49 PM
Well the horse I was talking about in my post about the deposit had lived with me for a couple years, had had a PPE when purchased by my student two years ago that was clean and I knew she would pass the PPE with no issues, which she did. In addition she had a very good show record at the level the person wanted to show (NCHJA "C" SHOWS) and the deposit wasn't NEARLY $2000! I am not a person that jerks people around on horses that haven't passed a PPE previously.

flyracing
Dec. 17, 2009, 01:56 AM
Hey Shawnee, I was in no way meaning to imply you would do the same thing as the CO person did to me. That said, I have learned my lesson and will not give a deposit unless it is for something reasonable such as a trial...

Just wanted to clarify my post wasn't intended towards you, just sharing my very bad experience. 9 years ago and still fresh in my mind!