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carolgdawson
Oct. 4, 2009, 06:52 PM
I am temporarily horseless after having had a very nice dressage mare for the last 7 years. I am short and therefore don't want a huge warmblood. I also have a limited budget. I am considering purchasing a young Arbaian gelding, a nice mover, good temperament, good size for me. My question for the forum is to those who have had experience training and showing Arbians in dressage. I would probably be showing in open shows, rather than Arabian only shows. I have heard some judges dislike Arabians and don't score them very well. In general, is this a good option? Or should I just look for a smaller warmblood?

BayHorseUK
Oct. 4, 2009, 07:00 PM
I adore arabs! I don't know of any judges that would score arabs lower, I think this is a complete myth. It IS true that some dressage people shy away from them due to conformational issues that in some cases make the more advanced work difficult for them. Having said that, arabs are my first love and I never turn down an opportunity to school one. Look for one that has sport bloodlines. If your prospect has a good mind and decent movement then go for it, you'll have a blast!! :winkgrin:

exvet
Oct. 4, 2009, 07:03 PM
My recommendation is buy an Arabian because you want an Arabian or more importantly THAT Arabian. If you don't or if you buy because you think it's your only option at this time then everytime things don't go according to plan it will because he's "an Ayrab". I have shown and earned my bronze medal on an Arabian. I showed mostly open shows but also some Arab shows but only in dressage classes. I earned what I deserved in both venues and only ran into breed bias under two different judges. Interestingly one judge later gave me a huge compliment and decent score at a regional championship a few years later because she appreciated a correction I had made during a test. I have had and currently have other Arabians because I love the breed, not because it's what I had to settle for at the time. I have two breeds I adore and it's the other one that I have focused on for breeding purposes but I will always have at least one Arab in the barn. I think they can be very competitve and fun if you focus on those traits they possess that lend themselves to dressage; however, I would do so with one who is sport-purpose bred and has good gaits.

Mortazavi Farms
Oct. 4, 2009, 07:32 PM
I've shown at a couple of open shows with our boys. The open show I competed in this year, I felt I could have scored a little higher, but there was a slightly political aspect. The only other horse in our class was going for young horse championships this year. He was a much bigger moving, larger horse and better trained.

I am an ammy. Do all of my own training and schooling. I take lessons, usually once a week with a trainer that helps coach me to train our 3 year old stallion, while trying to improve my riding. It's a tough combination, but have a fantastic young horse that I bred, have started myself and keep at home.

I agree with the above posters. You should ride and own an Arabian because you love the breed or horse in particular. They are wonderful animals and bond well with their human. Plus, I'm biased, but an Arabian that works properly, doing dressage, is really beautiful!

allanglos
Oct. 4, 2009, 08:06 PM
There is nothing prettier than an Arabian dressage horse.

This is my 4 year old in his first year under saddle.

dalpal
Oct. 4, 2009, 08:11 PM
I love both arabs and Tbs....their personalities suit me to a tee. I have a 16.3 TB, but he doesn't feel huge, he is a very light/elegant mover.

Allanglos...love your boy...very pretty.

Timex
Oct. 4, 2009, 08:13 PM
It sounds like you have an individual already in mind. If you like him, and think he'll work for what you want to do, then go for it! Arabs are loads of fun, and I adore them.

Cold Spring Farm
Oct. 4, 2009, 08:23 PM
With good gaits and a good brain, you will have a wonderful partner who will try his heart out for you.

There are plenty of Arabs doing great in open competition, and steadily moving up the levels. With more of them finally being bred to once again be functional horses, I think we will be seeing more and more of them out there doing well.

Is this young gelding you are looking at located in Virginia?? (There are a couple of really nice ones out there right now! Keep us posted on your purchase!!)

ShotenStar
Oct. 4, 2009, 08:29 PM
The Statistical Analysis we did of the 2008 open classes showed that Arabs and Arab crosses of various types comprised about 6% of all the horses shown. They also consistently scored below Iberian and all warmblood breeds.

Now, this is aggregate information and individual horses may be at the high end of any scoring range. The data also did not go into enough detail to tell us 'why'; it only showed that the differences exist.

*star*

allanglos
Oct. 4, 2009, 08:41 PM
Who is "we" and how did you get your "statistical data"?

allanglos
Oct. 4, 2009, 08:42 PM
I love both arabs and Tbs....their personalities suit me to a tee. I have a 16.3 TB, but he doesn't feel huge, he is a very light/elegant mover.

Allanglos...love your boy...very pretty.

Thanks.

Sounds like you would like an Anglo Arabian:)

Sabine
Oct. 4, 2009, 09:18 PM
there are undoubtedly really good ones out there- here is one of them...I'd love to ride that horse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9sKBHmuaS0

Hampton Bay
Oct. 4, 2009, 09:37 PM
I think it's really doing to depend on what you want. If your goals are to score very high, then an Arab *might* not be the breed of choice, as they are not bred for the big flashy gaits that a nice WB would have.

But if you love this horse and he is suited for the job, then by all means buy him.

I have a very nice one that I just adore. He is purebred, Polish and Russian, but he doesn't look like the stereotypical Arab in build. Very few people believe he is purebred actually because he is 15.2h as a 3.5yo and his conformation looks more Anglo or Arab/WB.

But then this is coming from someone who has absolutely no desire to own a WB.

ThreeFigs
Oct. 4, 2009, 10:10 PM
I've had Arabs and Half-Arabs for dressage. They would have done better if I'd been a better rider back then. My last Arab was my best buddy and over-the-top fun for whatever we wanted to do. Cattle work, low-level eventing, dressage, hacking on trails. Great horse.

Have fun!

Sudi's Girl
Oct. 4, 2009, 11:02 PM
I will say it again and again: a good horse is a good horse. Period. If this Arabian is a good horse - GO for it!! :)

I (being a TOTAL ammy) personally ride and train two Arabians (one mine, one is my mom's), and I love them both. But they are both INCREDIBLY different, although same age and came from the same breeder.

I've taken my horse to several BNT's, and their reactions are all pretty much the same: "When you told me you were bringing an Arabian, I was skeptical - But HE is awesome!!" :) (He's also in my profile pic - although not doing dressage)

If you like this horse, and you guys get along, I say go for it!

SouthernComfortMax
Oct. 4, 2009, 11:32 PM
My daughter has a fabulous little Arab pony mare. Moves very nicely, nice build, sweet and loving personality. I couldn't ask for a better pony for my daughter. I have not seen any bias from any judges, she usually gets compliments about how nice she is. I say go for it! :)

ShotenStar
Oct. 4, 2009, 11:39 PM
Who is "we" and how did you get your "statistical data"?

You must have missed the past and current threads on the Performance Standard and scoring in dressage. A large statistical analysis of dressage scores was done as part of all this, using the scores posted on the USDF website. A copy is available on the PVDA website: http://www.pvda.org/default.aspx

*star*

AnotherRound
Oct. 4, 2009, 11:45 PM
My personal opinion is that and Arabian can be vastly improved with dressage, but that they don't have the physiology to excel in dressage as it is shown and ridden today, easily. If you love an Arabian, buy her/him and use him according to his talents. Dressage will improve his mind and his physique, and his way of going. How well he places in classes will depend upon you and his performances and work. From that place, I say, enjoy and apply your considerable dresasge training know-how to your new arabian and have a great time. You probably have as much opportunity to move up in the levels with him as with any horse, except for purchasing a horse bred and trained specifically for dressage movements in the shows as they are judged and ridden. If i am wrong, I will one day retract this statement and eat my works. Until then, that is what I think.

piccolopony
Oct. 5, 2009, 12:11 AM
I have my dream horse. A 14.2 hand bay Arabian filly that I have started and am now putting some miles on. I have every intention of showing and training her Dressage and she has the natural movement and mind that will make that fun.

Arabians just fit me, I love everything about them and when I started looking for a new horse I knew I would get an Arabian even if they couldn't do Dressage well. However, when I started looking around I found how incredible they could be at just about every sport. Now that I have Sora I can't imagine ever going back and even if she were terrible at Dressage I really couldn't bring myself to care. They are really the coolest horses! :D

JLR1
Oct. 5, 2009, 12:18 AM
I own and adore 2 arabians and for me there is no other breed I would rather ride. Any horse that has the conformation, temperament and sometimes just plain heart can excel in dressage. Ludicrous blanket statements regarding an Arabian's lack of aptitude for dressage are without merit. I can think of many high dollar warmbloods that never made it above second level...owning a warmblood does not equal FEI potential.

allanglos
Oct. 5, 2009, 07:37 PM
You must have missed the past and current threads on the Performance Standard and scoring in dressage. A large statistical analysis of dressage scores was done as part of all this, using the scores posted on the USDF website. A copy is available on the PVDA website: http://www.pvda.org/default.aspx

*star*

Lordy, that website is so busy, I wouldn't know where to begin to find this data.

I only know when I have shown my Anglos in open competition, they win.

goodpony
Oct. 5, 2009, 07:59 PM
I watched Chelsey Sibley this weekend at the GAIG-USDF/CDS Dressage Championships ride several Arabians, they were most impressive and I believe scored well.

JackSprats Mom
Oct. 5, 2009, 09:36 PM
I would look at the horse more then the breed. There are some amazing Arabs out there and there are some horrible ones..that said I do think the 'sport horse' breeding is helping Arabs become much more competitive in the dressage field (as opposed to halter breeding).

This is my guy http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2336895160053281026fEhVKb

Wayside
Oct. 6, 2009, 12:15 AM
I'm a big fan of Arabians, and while not every Arab will make a decent dressage horse, I think there are a significant number who are quite capable. If you love the breed, there's no reason not to try and find one that's suitable. I rode one for many years, in a variety of disciplines, and I'd absolutely do it again.

My trainer is also a big Arab and part-Arab fan. This is her National Show Horse (Arab-Saddlebred) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afqkFUzECIM

Right now the only Arab I own is very much retired, but her great-grandson is registered RPSI and headed for a career in eventing. Seeing how good the old gal looks at 28, I suspect his owners will have many successful years ahead of them :D

Shrunk "N" Da Wash
Oct. 6, 2009, 11:51 AM
I used to ride one in lessons. His name was boomer and he was remarkable. He was trained to 4th level or 3rd can't remember. Anyways he was great. Arabs can make very nice dressage horses.... I am not a fan of arabs but if you are go for it

SouthernComfortMax
Oct. 6, 2009, 12:02 PM
I own and adore 2 arabians and for me there is no other breed I would rather ride. Any horse that has the conformation, temperament and sometimes just plain heart can excel in dressage. Ludicrous blanket statements regarding an Arabian's lack of aptitude for dressage are without merit. I can think of many high dollar warmbloods that never made it above second level...owning a warmblood does not equal FEI potential.


I could not agree more!!

dilligaff2
Oct. 6, 2009, 12:11 PM
Our 12 yr old daughter competes on an Arab cross (Welsh?) pony and does very well.

In fact, they were the highest scoring pair in 2nd level (Open and AA included) at their debut last month :)

He is well built, sound as a dollar day in/day out and has enough presence in the ring to do really well. :yes:

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Oct. 6, 2009, 01:41 PM
Agree with others that you have to look at that particular horse's confirmation, temperament, and preference. Also, make sure your body fits the horse well. I school an Arab mare at my barn for a friend sometimes and where my leg needs to go -- there is no horse ;). I have to ride in much shorter stirrups than I'd like to have contact with her barrel. (And it's not a size issue, it's a build issue.)

mp
Oct. 6, 2009, 01:53 PM
As others have said, look at the horse itself, not the breed. If his conformation is suitable, his gaits look good and you click with him, then get him. If you're questioning any of that, then pass.

I ride an Arabian, but I do a lot of things with him and have only shown in dressage twice @ TL. I thought my scores were fair. But even if they hadn't been, I wouldn't trade my little red hot rod for any other horse.

FancyFree
Oct. 6, 2009, 02:06 PM
I've never been a fan of Arabs until I had one move in next door to my horse. This mare is the cutest little doll baby. Such a pretty face and a lovely mover. Her owner doesn't do dressage with her, so I can't comment on that. But I can say she's so intelligent with personality plus. If I had property, I'd definitely own one.

poltroon
Oct. 6, 2009, 02:09 PM
I say go for it. Your horse will probably not be the regional champion at training or first level in Southern California, but a well chosen Arabian (or Morgan or pony) is well capable of scoring in the 60's to the middle levels and could easily get you your Bronze and beyond.

Auventera Two
Oct. 6, 2009, 04:29 PM
As someone else posted - I have my dream horse:
http://www.hphoofcare.com/PADRONAbath3.jpg
http://www.hphoofcare.com/PADRONA8.jpg

She's Egyptian and Russian. She's been challenging at times, but by far the most rewarding horse I've ever owned or ridden. She has more heart than many horses combined, and her gaits are a dream to ride. She does endurance and trail, but we do dressage exercises to improve her balance and conditioning.

I also own her half brother (same dam) and he too is a once in a lifetime kind of guy. A total joy to work with. http://www.hphoofcare.com/AndreJuly3091.jpg

The most consistent thing I hear from Arab owners is that they really have FUN with their horses. They're so versatile that you can do a training level show this weekend, a Competitive Trail Ride the next weekend, then go work cows or do a gymkhana.

Make sure that you and the horse fit together. Don't just buy a breed. There's a lot of Arabians out there that I wouldn't want to own. I looked at a bunch of them before settling on the two I have.

Ghazzu
Oct. 6, 2009, 06:04 PM
My personal opinion is that and Arabian can be vastly improved with dressage, but that they don't have the physiology to excel in dressage as it is shown and ridden today, easily.

Their physiology is as good as, or better than, anything else used for dressage.
OTOH, their conformation and/or temperament might be more or less suitable, depending on the horse...

Nanerpus
Oct. 6, 2009, 06:12 PM
I'm really happy with my arab pony. She's ridiculously willing and game for trying anything, super generous in her work ethic, and fantastic to bring out to shows, trails, etc. And she's got an extended trot to die for. It is amazing! She works through her back really nicely and I have had some great dressage clinicians who would take her home with them in a heartbeat. I think it just depends on the horse, and I've never felt stereotyped in showing dressage with her. Pic is in my signature if you are interested. Good Luck!

jumpytoo
Oct. 7, 2009, 11:23 PM
I think that you get the horse you like and do what you love... unless you goal is to get to the top of the sport.. then all the other angles as far as movement, athleticism, personality and scopiness matter.. a horse that is fun to ride and a companion is likely a different horse than the show stopper.. so think about your goals

If I were thinking of making a name for myself specifically on an Arabian in the open circuit I would likely look at one that was a "just misser" in the Park event. That would give me alot of swing in the shoulder, springs on the rear end and more of an uphill neck set. I would be looking for some break in the knee and hock elevation which would be easier to find in the park bred horse. but that would be IF I really wanted to try to do it on an arab. There are some really good ones.. and really Not.

Really my BEST advice is to decide what your true goal is... and get a horse that you enjoy working with. any path you take is alot of time invested (and money) and you will help yourself alot if you wait it out and get specifically what you want.

SouthernComfortMax
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:04 AM
I'm really happy with my arab pony. She's ridiculously willing and game for trying anything, super generous in her work ethic, and fantastic to bring out to shows, trails, etc. And she's got an extended trot to die for. It is amazing! She works through her back really nicely and I have had some great dressage clinicians who would take her home with them in a heartbeat. I think it just depends on the horse, and I've never felt stereotyped in showing dressage with her. Pic is in my signature if you are interested. Good Luck!

Oh my! Such a cute pony!! And I am totally jealous of your Barn and Arena! :)

ThreeFigs
Oct. 8, 2009, 12:56 AM
Dittos what jumpytoo said about "Just-missed Park Horses". My Guy was sired by a Park Horse stallion (so I've been told), out of a Spanish Arab mare. Great mover. A student of mine has a rescued Arab that we're pretty sure showed Park. After much rehab to overcome abusive riding, he's becoming quite the little dressage horse!

The Park horses have the aptitude for movement, freedom of shoulder, and lots of forward.

There's also a lot of junk in the Arab world. Unfortunately,lots of people think there's nothing to breeding a good Arab and they all think their stock is da bomb. Some are, some aren't. Seek a horse with a performance pedigree and structure to suit your goals.

dressage fan
Oct. 8, 2009, 01:30 PM
I have an Arabian and a Dutch Warmblood and I love them both. Although they are very different from each other, they both have great qualities that I enjoy. I agree with some of the other posters, pick an indiviidual horse that suits you and you will have lots of fun with that horse.

BCoffeyCurle
Oct. 8, 2009, 02:09 PM
As a generalization, Sport Arabians are affordable, sound, and trainable. I found a 5 yr skinny pencil necked geek who liked to buck his riders off in a field in northern NV that turned out to be a registered Anglo Arab. You could have said registered "swamp rat" and I would have agreed. He's now showing I1, schooling the 1's and learning passage and has no resemblance to the skinny bucking cow-hipped horse I found a few years ago. I think it's about the individual and their proper training and experiences.

In 1973 a bet was made. Could a horse with limited pedigree and average athletism but incredible training and riding make it to the Olympics? As I remember the story, Jack LeGoff was one of the bettors. The mare was Bally Cor - 1976 3 Day Individual and Team Gold medalist with Tad Coffin in the saddle.

Sudi's Girl
Oct. 8, 2009, 02:44 PM
In 1973 a bet was made. Could a horse with limited pedigree and average athletism but incredible training and riding make it to the Olympics? As I remember the story, Jack LeGoff was one of the bettors. The mare was Bally Cor - 1976 3 Day Individual and Team Gold medalist with Tad Coffin in the saddle.

http://useventing.com/hof/index.php?id=13 :)

Nanerpus
Oct. 8, 2009, 03:31 PM
Oh my! Such a cute pony!! And I am totally jealous of your Barn and Arena! :)

Thank You :)

esdressage
Oct. 8, 2009, 03:37 PM
I love, love, love my Arab! She's smart, willing, forward and just overall a joy to ride. I agree that it is an individual thing… there's no guarantee in any breed that you'll get a great dressage horse! I think, however, that if you look around at Arabians a bit you might find the perfect horse for you.

There was an article in Dressage Today recently that talked about how Arabians can make great AA horses because they're a bit smaller, more affordable, often quite talented and a whole lot of fun to work with and ride.

Showing is not a huge deal to me… in fact I'm taking my mare into our first show ever later this month, after owning her for quite a few years, so I'm not the best person to answer your question about how judges score Arabs. For our sake, let's hope well! :)

Piadosa
Oct. 8, 2009, 10:17 PM
My mare is an Arab X Oldenburg. She has only barely been started undersaddle, so I don't know what she wants to be when she grows up.

If she has any talent for jumping (which Arabs sadly aren't known for...) I might be brave and try her out in the hunters, since her movement is so lovely and her sire (Oldenburg) is known for producing fantastic hunters. She's got a big step for a little girl, so hopefully she inherited her daddy's jumping ability. If not, Im so excited to persue dressage with her, because I am in love with her trot.

I'm a hunter/jumper rider, and Arabs arent popular at all in hunter land. I fell in love with this mare when I tried her. A lot of people would have passed her up simply because of her breeding, so I thought I would take a chance. I may look a little out of place on an Arab at H/J shows if I decide to show her, but I'm not too concerned about it :)

http://i36.tinypic.com/2jfysnc.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/6xvkg9.jpg

If you are thinking of an Arab I would definatly suggest going for it. They are so unique from other breeds. They are so beautiful and smart, and from what I have heard they tend to be very very sound.

ThreeFigs
Oct. 8, 2009, 10:41 PM
Hey! Arabs can TOO jump! I competed Guy in a three-phase event before concentrating on dressage. Years ago we had an Arab stallion here in Colorado, Deb's Dancing Prince, who actually won a Puissance class at the Colorado State Fair.

He was a huge crowd favorite.

allanglos
Oct. 9, 2009, 02:48 AM
My mare is an Arab X Oldenburg.

If she has any talent for jumping (which Arabs sadly aren't known for...) I might be brave and try her out in the hunters, since her movement is so lovely and her sire (Oldenburg) is known for producing fantastic hunters. She's got a big step for a little girl, so hopefully she inherited her daddy's jumping ability.



Think again. This is a 5 year old purebred Arabian stallion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W852hxuxVy8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkv46xFoGOw

cashado
Oct. 9, 2009, 02:45 PM
My mare is an Arab X Oldenburg. She has only barely been started undersaddle, so I don't know what she wants to be when she grows up.

If she has any talent for jumping (which Arabs sadly aren't known for...) I might be brave and try her out in the hunters, since her movement is so lovely and her sire (Oldenburg) is known for producing fantastic hunters. She's got a big step for a little girl, so hopefully she inherited her daddy's jumping ability. If not, Im so excited to persue dressage with her, because I am in love with her trot.

I'm a hunter/jumper rider, and Arabs arent popular at all in hunter land. I fell in love with this mare when I tried her. A lot of people would have passed her up simply because of her breeding, so I thought I would take a chance. I may look a little out of place on an Arab at H/J shows if I decide to show her, but I'm not too concerned about it :)

http://i36.tinypic.com/2jfysnc.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/6xvkg9.jpg

If you are thinking of an Arab I would definatly suggest going for it. They are so unique from other breeds. They are so beautiful and smart, and from what I have heard they tend to be very very sound.


She's gorgeous!! I love Arab/WB crosses and anglos. Good luck with her!!

Hampton Bay
Oct. 9, 2009, 06:52 PM
Think again. This is a 5 year old purebred Arabian stallion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W852hxuxVy8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkv46xFoGOw

How tall is he? He looks to be a pretty good size for an Arab.

My 3-yo has a nice long stride like this guy, but with a bit more knee action. He was bred to be a park horse, but I bought him for other activities. He's only been free-jumped over barrels, but he really enjoyed it once he figured it out. He was jumping them at a gallop, no chute or anything. Silly boy.

allanglos
Oct. 10, 2009, 08:35 PM
He is 15.3H

slc2
Oct. 11, 2009, 05:44 AM
For many years the tradition in the hunter ring has been very much against Arabians, because most people felt they did not flow smoothly over the jumps in stride, and because of the idea of their gaits - knees up too far, head and neck carried too high.

Cold Spring Farm
Oct. 24, 2009, 10:11 AM
So....OP.....did you buy the gelding?

Keep1Belle
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:26 PM
Margret Gafford rode an Arabian Stallion named Genius and had great success with him. I will see if I can find some pics to post

clm08
Oct. 24, 2009, 03:17 PM
Arabs are not popular as eventers either, but mine is a good eventer, loves to jump and dressage is ok. Here he is running XC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zlXAszACtI&feature=related

What I like the best about my arabs are their versatility, as stated by another poster. They can go to dressage shows, events, competitive trail ride, one can also drive, and are pretty good at gymkhanas too. We can pop little kids on them for a lazy trail ride, or they can gallop full speed with tails flagging behind them with a more experienced rider. I am hoping to take them both to a foxhunt next month.

Elatu
Oct. 24, 2009, 04:56 PM
Here is my mare; Trakehner and Registered Half-Arabian. She's a Condus grand-daughter.
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm107/KirkridgeFarm/Allie0901.jpg