Great weekend ends with frustration! (hoof question)

[Meredith Clark]

I've been having issues keeping shoes on Juice all summer. He's out 24/7 and is fairly recently off the track (doesn't have horrible feet.. but OTTB feet). Between the dew on the grass and the creek the horses like to stand in I can't keep shoes on!

Farrier is great and does his best but even with a hoof supplement, keratex, and clips they wont' stay on.

This weekend was his first show and I wanted to make sure his shoes stayed on. Farrier came friday and put on new sheos and I moved him to my friend's for the weekend because it was supposed to (and did) rain and I didn't want him on the wet ground.

He lost a shoe on x-country today :mad:

Thankfully he didn't go lame but 3 days for brand new shoes?!?!

I can' decided whether to just pull his shoes for the winter and keep him on a good trim schedule or try to keep shoes on him.

Also has anyone tried hoof boots (when riding) in this sort of situation? I don't really want to give up riding for the whole winter but i'm not sure if his feet will hold up.


ps- he got 5th with 2 double clear rounds at his first event :D

[S1969]

I'm sure the farrier/hoof types will chime in but I think maybe a heart to heart with your farrier. How is he "losing" them -- overreaching and stepping on them, or something else? What is the problem, and then what are the possible solutions.

My mare overreaches in one direction more than the other so I have to be careful or she will step on her shoe and pull it. It's taken us a while but my farrier has gotten very good at shaping her shoe so it is very tight, and I use bell boots when it is wet outside (for turnout and riding) so if she overreaches she will (hopefully) not pull the shoe.

My farrier says shoeing my mare is like an accountant's audit - it takes a while but the time is worth it. We have found that her feet are growing much more quickly over the summer so we've had to up the trimming/shoeing cycle to keep the shoes tight...maybe that is part of the issue?

I have used hoof boots as well, but they can be a pain. I like them, though, and if you only needed them for riding (and not turnout, which is our issue in the winter) it might be a good solution.

[eruss]

I'll just take a shot in the dark and guess the shoe didn't just "fall off" during CC. :no:

[klicup]

Not withstanding the shoeing conundrum, congratulations on you & your horse's successful go!!

[Meredith Clark]

I'll just take a shot in the dark and guess the shoe didn't just "fall off" during CC. :no:

I'm not sure.. it was a baby event so we wen't galloping or anything extensive. He was wearing bell boots (he does 24/7 whether riding or turned out) and the bell boot stayed on. Usually if he over reaches or just steps on himself the bell boot will get pulled off too.

But who knows!

Thanks for the congrats... i'm so proud of him!

[Mach Two]

I know this horse of yours...only he is mine (now retired) and was hard as heck at first to keep shoes on, but the clips, Keratex and suppliments did finally pay off. He had underslung heels, and my farrier worked at keeping just enough shoe there to encourage growth, without leaving enough for him to step on.
I kept Pedocan dressing on him when he was out (that waxy, european stuff) and that helped keep him from absorbing much moisture from pasture and the creek he crossed going in and out. (this was before we were getting Keratex in middle Tennessee) Wea also used Pedocan at 3 day events for the jog, for shine without oil, and water shedding properties.
Congrats on the success....you'll work out the hoof thing.

I seem to remember my farrier pulling clips that were a little further back for that horse.

[Jack16]

I was in your same situation, my boy would lose a shoe every time it rained or he would play a little hard, etc., etc. We would have new shoes every 2 weeks it seemed. Anyway, what I did was put him on Bioflax (biotin and flax seed would also work) and I put him on the loading dose of Farriers Formula. Mine used to always pull his bell boots off as well when he overreached but I think the gradual overreaching really loosened the shoes too. I put the Pro Choice No turn bell boots on him. I have had no issues for at least 3 months (knock on wood) and his feet are growing too. I love those bell boots and I think in this case the supplements have really helped him.

[HealingHeart]

Horses will and can pull their shoes off if the shoe does not feel right to them i.e, shoe is to small for foot, to tight. Especially the young guys that are or get hot and happy...., overreach as someone suggested already...

[Meredith Clark]

Horses will and can pull their shoes off if the shoe does not feel right to them i.e, shoe is to small for foot, to tight. Especially the young guys that are or get hot and happy...., overreach as someone suggested already...

hmmm.. maybe farrier put them on too tight in order to keep them on. Horse is NOT hot (lazy pokey OTTB type) but of course can get fresh in the field with his friends.

[Daydream Believer]

There is someone on this forum who events in Easyboot Epics drilled and tapped and she loves them. They **can** work for some horse competing at that level and for many doing non jumping disciplines but obviously require a good fit and probably some monkeying around to get it right.

There are new glue on boots also that might work and endurance riders are having some success with them however they are too light to drill and tap...but do have an aggressive tread as compared to the Epics. I just got my glue ons and want to try them on a few horses and see how well they stay on. There was a top ten finisher at the Tevis this year in the glue ons...so they can work well.

[HealingHeart]

Hi Meredith Clark, it was just a thought. My TB kept losing his front shoe every 2 days, the same shoe kept being put back on. I have come to find out that "tight" was like us wearing a 1/2 size to small all day and just want to pull our shoes off....to get relief. i.e., fitting the foot to the shoe rather than the shoe to the foot.....the foot could be growing

Just a thought... you have lots of good ideas here to consider......

[Mach Two]

ummmmm.....what? The shoe does not fit around the hoof like a human shoe.
Tightening a shoe means hitting the clinches a little extra with a clincher or block and hammer.
And the feet are always growing...that's why we re-shoe every 4 or 6 or 8 weeks.

[SomethingDazzling]

Good Luck Mere! Congrats on your go around at Old Hope! I think our 'mutual friend' (A.R) has all kinds of the "easy boots" - ask her about them too, but I'm sure you have already.
See you soon!

[Dune]

Ok, first of all, CONGRATS!!!! :D I had a young WB that could NOT keep shoes on to save his life, I went through five (yes, 5!) farriers before I finally found one that could. Now the first farriers weren't "bad" by any means, they just didn't work for this particular horse. The farrier that finally "worked" made his own shoes, and if he was criticized for one thing, it was for fitting the shoes very close. He call it "neat", other farriers called his shoes "too small". What can I say, it worked for this horse in that situation. If you can't find someone that can do the job, and he'll stay sound enough to ride, I'd pull the shoes for the winter since I only see it getting worse as the weather gets wetter. JMO:yes:

[HollysHobbies]

My horse was the same--if his feet get wet in summer, then dry, they would crack and flake. He's ALWAYS been on a hoof supplement (now, he's on bioflax) as well as a vit/min supplement with great pasture and Eq. Senior. Coat was great...feet a mess. I'd joke that his mane and tail grew faster than any horse I'd ever seen, but he'd throw shoes every 2 weeks. I had great farriers. I didn't bathe him in summer. I tried alternative turnout. Nothing worked.:no:

This year, he's on 24-7 turnout with run-in, and I bucked what the farriers and vets always say (it comes from the inside out, don't use moisturizers) and tried a topical hoof conditioner called Sound Conditioner. I applied it every day to the outside of his hooves, top to bottom when his feet were dry. He didn't throw a shoe all summer. No flaking. I really think it kept his moisture balance in his foot more stable, despite the dew/wet dry. His feet look amazing. I showed my vet this week and she was stunned (having known this horse for a decade). I explained my theory in keeping the moisture balance stable--kind of like when you get dishpan hands/nails, which is why we all use moisturizer (depite our nutritional intake) She actually wrote it down!! I don't have any financial interest in this product, but it works. No buildup (so my farrier likes it too).:cool::cool::cool: He does wear bell boots full time, as he likes to step on his feet laterally (side to side) and yank them off. You might try bell boots if this is the issue.

My second horse, an OTTB, has good feet, so he's barefoot. I actually pulled his shoes in June and I trim him myself now, weekly. My theory is it's better to take a little off regularly with a barefoot horse than cut them way back every 5 weeks. I also have allowed the foot to take a more convex (or concave?) shape, where the walls are a little longer than the frog/sole. And he's sounder than he's ever been.

Hope this helps MC!! I'm sure people will come on here and say I'm an idiot, but the results speak for themselves.

[Meredith Clark]

Thanks for all the great advice! I'm taking everything to heart and doing research.

It's just such a kick in the pants when I go out to the field and see my other horse Jay (10 year old OTTB who's a cribber, head shaker and almost crippled from kissing spines) and his PERFECT feet !! I guess he's gotta have something working right on his body though :lol:

Something Dazzling- Talked to AR the day the shoe came off and she said I can try her old Macs and all the other stuff she had for Iffy. I wonder how long I have to whine before he gets to go live with her in a nice stall :winkgrin:

[Posting Trot]

I guess that I'd vote taking the shoes off for the winter. I think it's great that so far he's managed to lose his shoes without doing damage to the hoof wall, but I've got to think that eventually a chunk of hoofwall is going to come off with the shoe. (Just my limited experience with my own TB talking here).

I'd lose the shoes for the winter, have some boots on-hand to use on him for the first month or so of riding, feed him high-quality food, etc., and just let the hooves grow (with regular trims of course).

Good luck and definitely congratulations on the eventing results.

[HollysHobbies]

Just FYI, Meredith, I tried the Old Macs on my TB after I pulled his shoes, and he HATED THEM! Try to borrow a pair before you buy a pair, cuz they are expensive! We were much better off riding without them--I would ride him on the grass, rather than in the arenas--he seemed totally comfortable on the grass. Now, I can ride him anywhere.

I do like the idea of barefoot performance horses--like I said, one of my horses is barefoot and we school dressage, show, and even do hunter paces! If the other ever goes lame for some reason and needs recovery time, I'll pull his too, but he's going to take 6 months for his feet toughen and I just can't pull him out of his dressage work right now unless forced ;).

[SomethingDazzling]

Yeah, AR has a ton of stuff, plus she knows everything! I texted her a silly question last night....she's such a cool friend! Good Luck with the stall there...hell, if she had the bathroom working in the barn, I'd live in one! (just kidding!) :lol: