Deep Bedding - How To - Advice, please!

[allpurpose]

I am considering trying a deep bed method for my older arthritic gelding this winter.

The basic assumptions I'm working under: it's warmer and deeper, it's more cost efficient, and will offer more comfort for his sore joints when he's inside. I'll be using shavings only as straw is not an option.

How do I start a deep bed? How do you clean a deep bed? How often do you strip the stall and start over? Does it smell?

Any advice would be helpful! Thanks.

[mvp]

I'm a big fan of deep bedding. It's a little more work, but better for most horses and does not have to use more shavings.

You bed these stalls in whatever fashion you like-- banked or not, less or no shavings under buckets, whatever.

You choose shavings that are easy to sift with your apple picker. The coarse ones make a fluffy bed, but are less absorbent, tend to move around more and are really a PITA to sift.

You don't strip the stall, but you do use a cleaning technique that lets you take our manure and the really wet stuff from the spot where your horse pees. The rest should be pretty clean and will not smell.

This is how I do it:

From the surface, I pick out the manure I can see, perhaps digging around some to find what I can.

Next I rake the shavings up against the walls, exposing my gelding's pee spot. I scoop that out.

The floor should not be wet, stinky or even damp, but you can bank your shavings at this point if you want to let the stall air out. It's also the point at which you add lime if you do that.

Then I take the slightly wet stuff that was near the edge of the pee spot and rake it back into that center. This way, half-way wet shavings become all the way wet before they leave the stall.

Last, I rake the banked, clean shavings back into the middle of the stall. At this point, I may find a few stray manure balls to pick out.

I put in new shavings at the part of the stall where my horse is the neatest, usually the front, or else I cover the whole stall with an even new layer.

It helps if you have a neat horse. But a deeply bedded stall shouldn't stink because you have provided enough shavings to soak up the urine and to have that stay in one place. As your horse moves around, he will likely drag fresh shavings over his pee spot.

For older, trustworthy horses, I might pick out the stall pm and create a larger mound or nest in the middle that encourages them to lie down. I have never had one get cast this way.

[Mach Two]

Wow, that is a much more detailed description than I would have been able to do, and well done MVP!
Yep...that's how you do it!

[Long Spot]

I do it the way MVP does it. The only thing I do different is when banking the shavings while cleaning (after I've gotten the obvious piles and wet spots), and the middle is bare and the shavings are all at the walls, I use my fork and toss them at the wall for a bit on an angle. Most of the stray road apples bounce off the wall and roll onto the bare floor that way. It's a great way to get them out without taking any viable shavings. I pick those out, and then sweep the bare floor, concentrating on the wet spots. I sprinkle sweet PDZ a couple times a week on the wet spots. When I'm pulling the cleaned shavings back down I pick any stray apples out as I see them.

It's really not that much more time consuming, especially once you get to know where the horses urinate most often. They all tend to have favorite spots, and it's also obvious given anatomy ( geldings will be somewhere in the middle most often, and mares usually towards the outside). You get the wet spot out first, and the rest is easy peasy.

[saje]

I did this a bit differently w/ a cement floored run-in I had in PA. (It was actually the back part of a former garage that I converted to a barn-ish building) Taking out the floor was not an option, nor were mats at the time.

What I did was to bed the stall very deep to start out with, and then just take out the manure only. I'd pull clean shaving from the walls over the damp (not wet) spots, or add more bedding. I would occasionally dig out any *really* wet places and fill the gap with clean bedding, but just the worst of the wet, not turning over the whole stall.

I had 4 horses using the 15 x 22 (roughly) area, and what I found was that they packed the bedding down into a nice thick spongy bed. The bed was deep enough that the wet filtered down and didn't stain their coats or smell at all, so long as I kept an eye on the one spot in the middle where everyone seemed to go. The rest was a darker color than your average cleaned-and-turned-over-daily stall, but was dry to the touch.

What I really liked, apart from how easy it was to maintain, was that it wasn't slick like the cement, and didn't get damp and frosty like mats over cement can.

What I didn't like was stripping it in the summer, THAT was a backbreaking job! But it was worth it, and it did seem to keep the place a bit warmer in the snowy dead of winter.. I know the horses liked it, they'd take turns going in for a lie down and a snooze :)

[Janet]

I use a somewhat different technique.
(If you take out the wet, you don't get the heating effect)

How do I start a deep bed?
Start by putting down several bags of shavings. The first few weeks are the hardest, as you take out the manure but don't take out any wet, and keep putting in more shavings so the surface is always dry. After a few weeks, you will get a "matress" on the bottom of compressed damp shavings, with dry fulffy shavings on top. Th bottom layer is effectively composting.

How do you clean a deep bed?
Carefully remove all the manure. Do not remove any wet*. If the surface is not dry, add more shavings on top. Dont disturb the lowest layer.

* The exception would be if there is one area of the stall where the wet keeps coming to the surface. In that case, dig it out.

How often do you strip the stall and start over?
Once a year.

At that point, it is well over a foot deep.

Does it smell?

Only if you don't put enough clean shavings on top.

[ThisTooShallPass]

You intentionally leave urine? :eek: For heat? Oh please! :lol:

Bet money your horses smell it!!!

[caevent]

Ditto what Janet said!

[Janet]

You intentionally leave urine? :eek: For heat? Oh please! :lol:
That IS the basic principle of Deep Litter Bedding. Not just for heat, but that is the side effect. It composts underneath.

I can sit on the bedding and read a book. AS LONG AS YOU REALLY DO KEEP ADDING DRY ON THE TOP, there is no smell.

[Mach Two]

You intentionally leave urine? :eek: For heat? Oh please! :lol:

Bet money your horses smell it!!!

Well, in the true sense of "deep bedding", which has European origins, I believe, the chemical reactions going on under the layers of dry bedding created heating, keeping the stalled horse warmer.
It's tough for us Americans to do, leaving some wet under there, but the old style deep bedding was done that way, and while they do have a different aroma than just plain bedding, I can't say the ones I have been in were foul. Janet is right...enough top layer, and you get the effect, and it's not smelly. Without the chemical reactions, there is no additional heat.

For an arthritic horse, that heat can be nice!

[MistyBlue]

Actually, no there isn't any smell as long as it's bedded deep enough and gets compacted.
I've never done deep litter bedding with shavings, only with sawdust. Back when we used this we had stalls made specifically for this method, the aisle was a foot higer than the floors of the stalls. By the time you got a deep bed going, the floor of the stall was a step up from the aisle.
In 10x12 stalls we started with fresh bare floors and about 10 large wheelbarrows full of new sawdust, about 1 foot deep.
Then manure was removed daily, with sawdust the urine wasn't in puddles but there would be a small pin-hole sized spot where the urine hit the top of the bedding. It would then filter down through the foot of bedding to the bottom. Over time it spreads along the ground underneath the bedding, but the top many inches never get more than a tiny pee spot where the urine hit the bedding. Over time the foot of new bedding has been packed down to less than a foot thick, new sawdust was added. This too gets packed over time. About a month or so into a new bed...you'd have a thick cushiony pack of at least 16" deep, some up to 20" deep.
The top of the bedding pack was always dry, fresh smelling and new looking. Even if you dug down into it a good 5" deep it would be packed but dry packed bedding. Never even a little bit damp, not a single scent of ammonia.
However...in spring the stalls got stripped...and once that bottom 6" of so of urine packed sawdust was broken into the fumes are released and your eyes water. :eek: :lol: We did two new beddings on average per year...early spring and mid-fall.
The horses loved it...we didn't have any cases of respiratory issues with the horses ever and even if you had to close up the barn in blizzard conditions you could walk into the barn and smell fresh sawdust and some newly dropped manure, hay and horses. It never stank of pee at all. Even with your face in the bedding.

[Nanerpus]

I do it the way MVP does it as well. I really like deep bedding for my girls. I would add that when I have all the shavings against the wall and the pee spot is exposed, after taking out as much pee spot as I can, I will take the pitchfork, put it on the ground in front of the pee spot, and carefully/firmly rake it back towards me getting the smaller particles/pee stuck together, then I get a shovel and shovel it out. It makes a difference in getting all the pee GONE.

After that, I will sprinkle sweet pdz on the spot, cover it back up, and am done.

I strip my stalls once a week to once every 2 weeks completely, sweep, remove all I can, and then vacuum them (including windowsills, cobwebs, etc.)

Start over again with super fresh bedding.

In between this time if the bedding seems to get a bit dusty, I mist it once a day prior to the horses coming in to keep the dust down.

[ThisTooShallPass]

Your horses have personally told you they cannot smell it?

[MistyBlue]

No, I've never had talking horses.
(but thanks for the sarcasm anyways. ;) )
But this system is used in some rehab facilities that do test air quality for RAO, etc. They seem to find it beneficial for joint support and not bothersome to horses with respiratory issues.
It's an older style bedding system that works well if done right, but a lot of younger folks or folks from areas this wasn't prevelent might find it oogy sounding. And it does sound creepy a bit if it's something you're hearing about and haven't ever researched or used before. :yes:
Now I do use deep bedding, but not the full deep litter system. My stalls aren't set up for that and I can;t get sawdust. And I prefer it with sawdust personally. Now I have mats over 4' of drainage topped with a minimum of 8" of pelleted bedding. I probably don't need anywhere near that amount of Woody Pet, but I grew up using deep deep stalls and just prefer them that way.

[Big Red Beast]

I do the Janet/Misty Blue method... it works PERFECTLY for my 17 yr old and 22 yr old with arthritis- they are much more comfortable after being in for the night. The younger horses seem to lay down more as well.

As far as the smell- I make a point of (no laughing please!)- laying down in the stalls periodically- to ensure that there is no smell. and there really isn't- if there is you're doing it wrong.

I once read an article about deep bedding and take away point was "you should be able to lay down in your dress clothes in a properly deep bedded stall and not get dirty at all (save for clean shavings stuck to you!)"

anyway- another thumbs up for deep bedding!! :)

[caevent]

If done properly, a deep bed can have LESS ammonia than a stall that has minimal bedding. I've been at barns with both methods. The deep beds were always lovely: comfortable and fresh. The barns with minimal bedding would smell and the horses would be lying in their manure every night.

[Lucassb]

Actually, no there isn't any smell as long as it's bedded deep enough and gets compacted.
I've never done deep litter bedding with shavings, only with sawdust. Back when we used this we had stalls made specifically for this method, the aisle was a foot higer than the floors of the stalls. By the time you got a deep bed going, the floor of the stall was a step up from the aisle.
In 10x12 stalls we started with fresh bare floors and about 10 large wheelbarrows full of new sawdust, about 1 foot deep.
Then manure was removed daily, with sawdust the urine wasn't in puddles but there would be a small pin-hole sized spot where the urine hit the top of the bedding. It would then filter down through the foot of bedding to the bottom. Over time it spreads along the ground underneath the bedding, but the top many inches never get more than a tiny pee spot where the urine hit the bedding. Over time the foot of new bedding has been packed down to less than a foot thick, new sawdust was added. This too gets packed over time. About a month or so into a new bed...you'd have a thick cushiony pack of at least 16" deep, some up to 20" deep.
The top of the bedding pack was always dry, fresh smelling and new looking. Even if you dug down into it a good 5" deep it would be packed but dry packed bedding. Never even a little bit damp, not a single scent of ammonia.
However...in spring the stalls got stripped...and once that bottom 6" of so of urine packed sawdust was broken into the fumes are released and your eyes water. :eek: :lol: We did two new beddings on average per year...early spring and mid-fall.
The horses loved it...we didn't have any cases of respiratory issues with the horses ever and even if you had to close up the barn in blizzard conditions you could walk into the barn and smell fresh sawdust and some newly dropped manure, hay and horses. It never stank of pee at all. Even with your face in the bedding.

This was how I was taught to create and maintain a deep litter bed also although we used peat moss as the initial base layer. We used this system them every winter and the horses were always very comfortable; the barn was clean and quite pleasant inside - not a hint of any urine odor at all.

As an aside, I miss those days and the traditional barn management practices that were common then. *sigh* Apparently I am becoming an antique.

[BayHorseUK]

Over here "deep bedding" is exactly as Janet and MistyBlue described. I've done it myself in the past and no, it doesn't smell until you disturb it. Can work well and many people swear by it, particularly those who use straw... I personally decided I dislike it because it doesn't end up saving much money and it's NOT FUN to clear out when winter ends. Also, I didn't detect much difference in the warmth of the bed. Personal choice though, and as I said many people love it.

[MistyBlue]

Don't worry Lucassb...I'm becoming an antique too. :winkgrin: :D (hey, maybe that means we've gone up in value, LOL)

Agree with caevent...there's a lot less ammonia smell in a deep bed than there is in a lightly bedded or average bedded stall. The urine is buried deep, covered with a tight pack of fresh bedding completely...anywhere from 6" to 10" or more of tightly packed bedding on top.
I grew up so used to *not* smelling urine/ammonia in stalls that I can't stand even the slightest whiff of it. Even in many barns considered immaculate in their stall keeping, I can smell ammonia. I can't deep litter well the way my barn was built, so I use really deep Woodypet and that neutralizes odors really well too.

I've never noticed a warming effect from the deep bedding...at least not enough warmth to be noticeable by feel. But it does keep it well above freezing level, I've never ever had a deep litter stall with frozen or hard bedding. The underneath urine way down at the bottom and the tightly packed bedding on top hold that warmth enough to keep it from freezing. Way more comfy for older horses in winter, soft unfrozen bedding every night.
And the way sawdust packs (shavings may be the same, I don't know) after you get a good base going then in the mornings you can tell exactly where your horse was down and in what position because it leaves a soft imprint like the temperpedic mattresses do. And the stalls don't get as messy as loose shavings or loose sawdust...with only about 1" of loose bedding on top and the rest packed even if the roll or stall walk they don't churn it all up. Only way it gets churned up is if you have a pawer/digger.

Eventually I may have a contractor come in and dig out my stall floors at least 6-8" and re-level and re-pack the processed stone...then I'll put the mats back in and be able to deep bed the stalls again. I didn't think of that when we had the barn built and I've been kicking myself ever since then for forgetting that. :( I'd also have to have a bunker built for storing sawdust, but it's sooo worth it. :yes:

Janet...do you use those really fine cut shavings? I see you mentioned not to use the big fluffly ones...makes sense because while those look nice they don't work for nothing. But around here finding the finest cut shavings is tough and we have either the huge cut or the medium cut. I'm not so sure how the medium cut would work in a deep bed.

[Horseymama]

I first learned about Deep Litter Bedding when I was a working student in Switzerland many years ago. We did it with straw or shavings, depending on the horse. It is a very old technique and it works really well. I never noticed if it produced heat, but it did insulate the stalls well. And it never froze or became hard. I don't think it smells badly at all. I think it would be great for an arthritic horse.

[Janet]

Janet...do you use those really fine cut shavings? I see you mentioned not to use the big fluffly ones...makes sense because while those look nice they don't work for nothing. But around here finding the finest cut shavings is tough and we have either the huge cut or the medium cut. I'm not so sure how the medium cut would work in a deep bed.

I just use the ones Southern States sells. I wouldn't call them "fine cut", but I wouldn't call them "big fluffy" either.

[Desert Topaz]

Would this be something feasible to do if snow blows in and covers some of the bedding on a regular basis? The people that built my barn didn't take our high winds into consideration when planning and snow blows into the stalls.

[mvp]

Oh yeah, the deep litter/chemical heating pad technique. That's good, too.

I learned my technique in NorCal where it was perhaps too warm to need that version or to hope that ammonia would stay put on the bottom layer.

But the one time I tried this in Pennsylvania, it rocked. Done right, it doesn't smell. In fact, the stuff thats 6 months old and way down there doesn't smell of ammonia either. Unbelievable.

There are two keys to the deep litter technique:

1) You must put in more shavings than your frugal, reasonable or young friends tell you. In our age of rubber mats, the evil of pelleted bedding and rising costs, few people are used to seeing well-bedded stalls. Fewer still know how to clean them in an economical way.

2) You must get shavings that are fine, or be willing to wait while the coarser, crunchier ones break down to form the warm, mat-like bottom layer you want.

Once you do have this layer going, treat it as your new floor. Don't dig down into it, even the pee spots. Rake a thin layer of shavings over it and proceed as you would normally.

The poster who mentioned throwing the shavings and turds up against a wall is right-- the turds will roll down and sort themselves out nicely. If you have not had the chance to see a professional clean a stall this way, do so when you see one at work. It's an elegant art form.

And yes, I think the deep litter technique will not only tolerate a dusting of snow, but is ideally suited to it. There will be enough shavings that the snow will be absorbed where it falls, not making any one part of the stall terribly wet.

[allpurpose]

I think I'm going to try it...

You guys are great! Thanks for the details, techniques, to-dos and not-to-dos.

A few questions: some of you describe getting a bare spot in the middle of the floor after digging out the pee spot (my guy's a middle-of-the-stall pee'er too), then banking up the sides, collecting rolling poop balls, then levelling the stall again. Some of you describe just digging out the wet spot just a bit, picking the manure and leaving the compacted base intact.

I'm confused by the two techniques. If you dig out to the floor, you're disturbing the base. If you don't, you've got a compacted base that you add shavings to on top. I guess there are two schools of thought on this??:confused:

Could we explore this a little more, please?

[MistyBlue]

1) You must put in more shavings than your frugal, reasonable or young friends tell you. In our age of rubber mats, the evil of pelleted bedding and rising costs, few people are used to seeing well-bedded stalls. Fewer still know how to clean them in an economical way.

*Very* true! :yes: When I was boarding the BO gave me the go ahead to bed my stalls my way...since I cleaned my own stall and paid extra for extra bedding anyways. More than half the people in the barn thought I was nuts...and that bedding was 6-8" deep tops. I'd hear, "Oh you can't get a stall that deep clean!" and "what a waste!" and "Is that even good for the horse?" If people were shocked at 6" of bedding, they'd have been horrifed at the 16-20" used in a deep bedded stall. :lol:
Although I don't think pellets are evil...only when people use them as a light dusting on mats for the easiest stall cleaning possible. I use pellets and have mats, but I keep my pellets broken down to sawdust consistency and keep it a minimum of 8" deep.
Cleaning a deep stall takes a little practice, but I find it actually easier than a lightly bedded stall. And I don't consider my stalls clean unless I'd sleep in them. :winkgrin:


allpurpose...it might be differences due to different floor types or different bedding types. When I've used deep bedding it's been only on impermeable floors...either cement or mats. Growing up we had cement floors...which was *why* we used deep bedding. And with the solid surface floor, the last thing you wanted to do was disturb the bottom layers of bedding. Possibly with a dirt floor or if you have a gravel floor you might not get the same result...not sure. Or you might want to stop some of the drainage down so as not to get the floors soaked and stinking. With a solid floor the floors can't get soaked too badly, when stripped they're scrubbed clean with bleach and water and then allowed to air dry for the day before rebedding. I would think a dirt floor would be mucky though.

Also might be bedding type used. Large shavings will not pack like small shavings or sawdust will. They also won't absorb much of anything...so pee spots might spread near the surface instead of just a small spot where it soaks through the layers and then speads on the bottom. With fine bedding there seriously isn;t a pee spot to remove...only a wet hole on the surface of the packed bedding about as big around as a silver dollar. And after a couple months there isn't a single pee spot on the floor under the layers...it's spread to most of the bottom of the stall.

When we did our stalls, there wasn't any pe anywhere near the surface to remove. In order to find a pee spot we'd have to dig out layers and layers of packed dry clean shavings and go down at least 8" or more. Our stallls normally had dry packed bedding on the top and only about 5" of wet stuff at the bottom after 6 months.
In order to strip the stall for rebedding...the top layers would be broken into with a pitchfork and then scooped out and fluffed back up into a clean pile in the aisle off to one side. Then you'd need the big metal fork to break up the packed wet stuff on the bottom (top removal took almost an hour, bottom at least an hour) and that would be thrown away. The stall floor was then soaked with bleach and water, scrubbed with a broom and rinsed. Then air dried for the day...then the dry stuff removed was put back in the stall as the new base/bottom and we'd stomp it down and then add enough wheelbarrows of brand new delivered sawdust to top it off...the top layer of the newly bedded stall would be loose bedding for the first couple weeks as the horses packed it down. And then when a new full deep bed was made new stuff was only added for a top layer of very loose beeding about 2" deep and the rest of the 14" - 18" would be packed base.
Made for a

[MistyBlue]

1) You must put in more shavings than your frugal, reasonable or young friends tell you. In our age of rubber mats, the evil of pelleted bedding and rising costs, few people are used to seeing well-bedded stalls. Fewer still know how to clean them in an economical way.

*Very* true! :yes: When I was boarding the BO gave me the go ahead to bed my stalls my way...since I cleaned my own stall and paid extra for extra bedding anyways. More than half the people in the barn thought I was nuts...and that bedding was 6-8" deep tops. I'd hear, "Oh you can't get a stall that deep clean!" and "what a waste!" and "Is that even good for the horse?" If people were shocked at 6" of bedding, they'd have been horrifed at the 16-20" used in a deep bedded stall. :lol:
Although I don't think pellets are evil...only when people use them as a light dusting on mats for the easiest stall cleaning possible. I use pellets and have mats, but I keep my pellets broken down to sawdust consistency and keep it a minimum of 8" deep.
Cleaning a deep stall takes a little practice, but I find it actually easier than a lightly bedded stall. And I don't consider my stalls clean unless I'd sleep in them. :winkgrin:


allpurpose...it might be differences due to different floor types or different bedding types. When I've used deep bedding it's been only on impermeable floors...either cement or mats. Growing up we had cement floors...which was *why* we used deep bedding. And with the solid surface floor, the last thing you wanted to do was disturb the bottom layers of bedding. Possibly with a dirt floor or if you have a gravel floor you might not get the same result...not sure. Or you might want to stop some of the drainage down so as not to get the floors soaked and stinking. With a solid floor the floors can't get soaked too badly, when stripped they're scrubbed clean with bleach and water and then allowed to air dry for the day before rebedding. I would think a dirt floor would be mucky though.

Also might be bedding type used. Large shavings will not pack like small shavings or sawdust will. They also won't absorb much of anything...so pee spots might spread near the surface instead of just a small spot where it soaks through the layers and then speads on the bottom. With fine bedding there seriously isn;t a pee spot to remove...only a wet hole on the surface of the packed bedding about as big around as a silver dollar. And after a couple months there isn't a single pee spot on the floor under the layers...it's spread to most of the bottom of the stall.

When we did our stalls, there wasn't any pe anywhere near the surface to remove. In order to find a pee spot we'd have to dig out layers and layers of packed dry clean shavings and go down at least 8" or more. Our stallls normally had dry packed bedding on the top and only about 5" of wet stuff at the bottom after 6 months.
In order to strip the stall for rebedding...the top layers would be broken into with a pitchfork and then scooped out and fluffed back up into a clean pile in the aisle off to one side. Then you'd need the big metal fork to break up the packed wet stuff on the bottom (top removal took almost an hour, bottom at least an hour) and that would be thrown away. The stall floor was then soaked with bleach and water, scrubbed with a broom and rinsed. Then air dried for the day...then the dry stuff removed was put back in the stall as the new base/bottom and we'd stomp it down and then add enough wheelbarrows of brand new delivered sawdust to top it off...the top layer of the newly bedded stall would be loose bedding for the first couple weeks as the horses packed it down. And then when a new full deep bed was made new stuff was only added for a top layer of very loose beeding about 2" deep and the rest of the 14" - 18" would be packed base.
Made for an easy manure pile too...the fine bedding allowed us to remove only poop so little bedding in the

[Nanerpus]

As I said earlier, I bed deeply but not to the degree being discussed on this thread with leaving the pee for warmth.

I understand the reasoning and believe it must work from all the positive replies, but in the back of my mind I keep thinking about how my pony walks around her stall and doesn't pick up and place her feet all that lightly, and I would think that she would disturb the layers enough to "stir up" the pee saturated layers at the bottom...does this ever happen? Just curious, not commenting on the method as I've never heard of it until now so I am just curious!:)

[Janet]

I'm confused by the two techniques. If you dig out to the floor, you're disturbing the base. If you don't, you've got a compacted base that you add shavings to on top. I guess there are two schools of thought on this??:confused:

Two DIFFERENT techniques. Either you
A -leave the wet layer alone and don't disturb it
B- Take out the really wet each tinme.

You need to pick one or the other. You can't mix them.

[mvp]

Thinking like a geologist, you need to understand that MistyBlue's most excellent technique is two-strata system that's thicker than one-layer one I wrote about originally. She is right-- there is no pee spot with the really deep system.

My system is for the person with rubber mats, or wooden floors. It won't work nearly so well for dirt or crushed rock floors where each scraping out of the pee spot means also removing some of your flooring. It's certainly not for cement floors. Mine was also for the person who didn't want to do the strip out the whole thing in the spring.

But being reminded of the old school technique, and thinking about old horses and cold winters, I'm nostalgic for this centuries-old way. MistyBlue's way is perfect for bad floors like cement, dirt or an already pitted stall. You can just about (or sort of) rebuild a pretty flat, solid floor by allowing shavings to fill it in, break down and compress over time.

[Janet]

As I said earlier, I bed deeply but not to the degree being discussed on this thread with leaving the pee for warmth.

I understand the reasoning and believe it must work from all the positive replies, but in the back of my mind I keep thinking about how my pony walks around her stall and doesn't pick up and place her feet all that lightly, and I would think that she would disturb the layers enough to "stir up" the pee saturated layers at the bottom...does this ever happen? Just curious, not commenting on the method as I've never heard of it until now so I am just curious!:)
Walking around dragging the feet isn't a problem. But a confirmed digger is a problem.

[saje]

Janet & MB described the way I did mine better than I did. The only time I ever took wet out was once when there was a roof leak that did make a soggy spot, and occasionally the one area they all seemed to pee in would get too wet and I'd dig some of it out and refill with sawdust from the surrounding bed.

There really is no smell if it's done right, and toe-draggers aren't a problem so long as you *start* with a lot of bedding, and keep covering the wet spots.

I'd love to do this again only my current shed has too low a ceiling :/