Need a lesson about IR

[Lori T]

I have been posting here about our Teddy, one of our rescues. When we took him in last fall, he had an abcess in his shoulder and developed 6 in his hooves in 3 months. Nothing more until this summer, when he developed another abcess. Last night was the first time he left his stall to go out to the pasture in nearly 4 weeks. The abcess popped about 10 days ago in the heel, but other than going into his run, he has not wanted to go anywhere else.
His sponsor was watching him tonight and commented about how after he eats, he goes and naps. I realized that what she noticed was correct...after breakfast this morning, I had noticed that he went and napped before even touching his hay. And he napped tonight before finishing his hay. And while he had been "up and alert" prior to dinner, and had indications of wanting to go outside this evening, after he ate, he was no longer interested in going out.
I have started switching his diet to a low starch pellet by Seminole for IR and laminitic prone horses (he is not laminitic). He gets alfalfa/orchard hay. I tried switching him to straight timothy and he rejected it.
Could there be a correlation between IR and the napping AND the abcesses?
I am going to pull blood this week, I am really curious at this point.

[rcloisonne]

Could there be a correlation between IR and the napping AND the abcesses?
Doubtful IR would have anything to do with his napping. Sounds as though he is in really rough shape.
I am going to pull blood this week, I am really curious at this point.
I'd be more concerned than than curious. You might want to have his feet x-rayed as well. How/why have you ruled out chronic laminitis?

[Lori T]

Doubtful IR would have anything to do with his napping. Sounds as though he is in really rough shape.

I'd be more concerned than than curious. You might want to have his feet x-rayed as well. How/why have you ruled out chronic laminitis?

He has been xrayed, 2 weeks ago. He had the classic founder stance, but it was due to pain from the abcess. In the left hoof, which is where the abcess is, the toe of the coffin bone curls up like an elf shoe. Very slight rotation, less than 5%. No separation. The vet said the coffin bone remodeled itself as a result of so many abcesses.

[decorum]

If you have rotation then you have separation, you can't have one without the other. If you mean his coffin bones are at a 5 degree angle then that does not mean separation, it means his heels are a bit high.

When I see chronic abscessing it is usually associated with excess sugar in the diet. Even in non-IR horses I see abscessing with high sugar feeds like senior feed.

Ann Szolas




He has been xrayed, 2 weeks ago. He had the classic founder stance, but it was due to pain from the abcess. In the left hoof, which is where the abcess is, the toe of the coffin bone curls up like an elf shoe. Very slight rotation, less than 5%. No separation. The vet said the coffin bone remodeled itself as a result of so many abcesses.

[Lori T]

If you have rotation then you have separation, you can't have one without the other. If you mean his coffin bones are at a 5 degree angle then that does not mean separation, it means his heels are a bit high.

When I see chronic abscessing it is usually associated with excess sugar in the diet. Even in non-IR horses I see abscessing with high sugar feeds like senior feed.

Ann Szolas

Yes, that is what I meant to say, they are at a 5 degree angle, I had to go back and re-read the notes from the vet.
I really feel there is a connection between the sugar and the abcesses, which is why I am switching his diet. I tried earlier in the year after we had rehabbed him and put weight on him, but he didn't like what I was switching him to and I just ended up keeping him on the senior, since he was at that time potentially adopted out and I decided to let the new home change his diet (the adoption fell through).

[Katy Watts]

Get him tested for at least ACTH and insulin. Yes ACTH can be falsely elevated at this time of year, but if it is sky high, you have your answer. High insulin will prove that lowering sugar in the diet is imperative.
Or, put him on pergolide for 30 days and see if it makes him perky and sound. Again you have your answer. If he needs pergolide, you should see improvement in 2 weeks. Same with switch in diet, but if you do both at the same time, you won't know which really was the trigger.
Thanks for taking him in.
Katy

[Lori T]

I emailed my holistic vet to ask her to come do the blood work for me..she will be more reliable about getting there after he eats than my regular vet. I am also going to check at work tomorrow to see if I can use our blood lab. (I work for a specialty vet). That will save me some $ if I submit it though work.
He scared me to death this morning..I came into the barn and he was flat out, but he was so squished in the corner, I thought he had dropped dead. I literally had to sit down after I realized he was ok, my knees were shaking! Not a good morning, he didn't seem to be doing well, so I gave him some banamine. 3cc seems to pull him around on mornings like these (thankfully they are fewer and fewer). He did end up going out into his run to graze, so I took advantage of the situation and gave him a bath..had to feel good, he hasn't been bathed since August! He was much perkier when I left.