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Auventera Two
Oct. 1, 2009, 03:53 PM
The fall weather makes them crazy, doesn't it? :lol: Andre was out there just givin' it heck so I dug the camera out. It's funny when he jumps the cavalleti pile himself after about 6 circles. :cool: I set the poles up and do trot work with him a couple times a week so apparently he felt the need to over-achieve and do a little on his own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu6eh6Ci-58


A few photos from a month or so ago
http://www.hphoofcare.com/AndreAppleTree1.jpg

http://www.hphoofcare.com/Andre%20Playing.jpg

http://www.hphoofcare.com/AndreTrain21.jpg

http://www.hphoofcare.com/AndreAndPeteSmall1.jpg

http://www.hphoofcare.com/AndreTrot1.jpg

Yes, we had a boot malfunction there. He had a small abrasion on that leg, under the boot. Very small, but I can only guess that as he began to sweat, the salt made the abrasion uncomfortable. He had a stomping fit and spun the boot around, then was too touchy on the leg to let me take it off. He had to blast around for a few circles and get the hissy fit out of his system before he let me take it off. :rolleyes:

Anyway, he's doing really great, he is such a sweetheart. Loves everybody, happy to do anything in the world you ask, one of those horses that's just filled with youthful exuberance and brilliance.

The trainer gave us really good compliments on his temperament and trainability. I've been hauling him around in the trailer to do different things, and he hops right in, so happy to be out and going somewhere.

He's come a LONG way! :)
http://www.hphoofcare.com/k1.jpg (The day I first went to look at him) He's turning into a total powerhouse, muscling up and getting fit. This was him in July http://www.hphoofcare.com/AndreJuly3091.jpg and the above links are more recent.

Anyway, just wanted to share!

tabula rashah
Oct. 1, 2009, 07:37 PM
Wow! First off, he's gorgeous and secondly, you've done a great job- there's a huge difference in condition from that first pic to the now pics

Chall
Oct. 1, 2009, 08:02 PM
He's beautiful. Yikes the video brought back memories - run and run and repeat whatever he had just been taught. Do Arab mares do this too? Or is it just the guys that feel the need to run?

Nezzy
Oct. 1, 2009, 08:03 PM
he's beautiful he is MADE for endurance!

IrishKharma
Oct. 1, 2009, 09:41 PM
Wow! I love it when they do that. He is coming along so nicely, keep up the good work.

ThreeFigs
Oct. 1, 2009, 11:45 PM
Think he has potential to be an Open Jumper?

Auventera Two
Oct. 2, 2009, 09:48 AM
LOL Beasmom, probably not. :lol:

His personality is so different than the mares. He remembers everything - doesn't challenge authority (boy that's a welcome change :eek:), and he's so darned goofy. At feeding time, he'll pick up the feed pan in his teeth and show it to me. "Here, fill this thing up."

His best friends are his 4 hens. They eat out of his feed tub and he moves over so they can shove him out of the way and eat their fill first. I have to get video because its hilarious. 4 hens standing up tall, reaching over the feed tub, then Andre in the middle of them.

KarenC
Oct. 2, 2009, 10:08 AM
We refer to the action in the video as "self conditioning"...

Auventera Two
Oct. 2, 2009, 10:21 AM
Yep, that's a good term for it. :cool: He does that just about daily. I reduced his grain way down, and upped the beet pulp now that he's in good weight.

I can't get over how different his personality is now, from the first time I went to see him. He was dull, grumpy, and lazy. I took about 30 photos of him, and the one I posted was one of only a whopping TWO where he did not have his ears pinned back. Not even the same horse now. Amazing what a good balanced feeding program does for an animal.

Gatorsgirl
Oct. 2, 2009, 12:58 PM
Can I just ask you his parentage lines? He's a handsome boy!

You said - 'Amazing what a good balanced feeding program does for an animal.'

ABSOLUTELY! He looks fantastic and you've done a great job bringing him along. :)

Auventera Two
Oct. 2, 2009, 02:14 PM
His page is here http://www.hphoofcare.com/Andre.html There's a link to his pedigree, and other info. :)

egontoast
Oct. 2, 2009, 07:24 PM
If he cross canters a lot you may want to get that checked out (unless the difficulty is from the large testicles which i believe you mentioned elsewhere were interfering with his trotting ability).

Auventera Two
Oct. 2, 2009, 09:14 PM
If he cross canters a lot you may want to get that checked out (unless the difficulty is from the large testicles which i believe you mentioned elsewhere were interfering with his trotting ability).

Actually, I see a horse screwing around in a paddock on a windy day, trying to run but still make the corner on time. I wouldn't judge a horse's canter by their half hearted hyper-horse, tail cranking gallop.

HighFlyinBey++
Oct. 2, 2009, 10:19 PM
May I judge his canter by the other YouTube videos you've posted?

September 21 looks like a lovely day. Andre looks calm and relaxed.

And he cross canters often in both videos with that date. I paused the videos multiple times to make sure I wasn't seeing things wrong.

If he were mine, I'd have him evaluated by eyes more experienced than my own, just to rule out physical causes.

Dispatcher
Oct. 3, 2009, 03:17 PM
Now that he's put on some weight, he looks even more fabulous!

Auventera Two
Oct. 3, 2009, 08:29 PM
Thanks for the input everyone, though I didn't post videos asking for a critique of the horse's gaits. He has a LONG way to go in terms of conditioning and training. He's been evaluated by two trainers who did not mention anything of any concern. But perhaps that's because he was being asked to work correctly. He's a big horse who for 8 years has had no work or conditioning. As his training continues and I feel the need to ask for a critique on the animal's gaits, I'll let you ladies be the first to take a crack at it. ;)

And if you've followed any of my threads or posts on him, you would know that he was allowed to develop a grazing foot on the right front, and I have been working hard to correct it through proper trimming. He was hi/low and showed shoulder asymmetry and general overall unbalance and crookedness. This has improved significantly but chiropractic will be explored before he is asked to do any measurable amount of under saddle work.

I started with a horse in poor condition and in need of major work in multiple areas. One thing at a time.

But, thanks for your concern ;)

HighFlyinBey++
Oct. 4, 2009, 12:09 AM
Well, no, I haven't followed any of his threads. Was I supposed to be :confused: :confused:

Suggesting that you look closer at him is NOT a critique of his gait, BTW. You'd know if I was critiquing him ;)

AnotherRound
Oct. 4, 2009, 11:37 PM
Oh dear! I looked at the pictures from your website, and I have to say, there is something very wrong with his front legs. I am no expert, but there is some unfortunate filling in the pastern and fetlock of the left front, and they are very upright, especially the left front. What's wrong!! His trim does not look even to me on the fronts, nor the rears. I'm sorry to see this, he seems so nice, but there is something wrong with his front legs. They look bad, or wrong or something. His trim looks really uneven. Too bad!!

Auventera Two
Oct. 5, 2009, 09:56 AM
LMAO AnotherRound. Care to reference the pictures to which you are referring? There is nothing "very wrong" with the horse's front legs. He does not have filling in his left front at all. Or in any of his legs for that matter. I have no clue what you are looking at. The only photo in which you can evaluate hooves at all was taken a few weeks after I got him, and if you will recall, YES I said his feet were a nightmare.

hitchinmygetalong
Oct. 5, 2009, 10:34 AM
Oh dear! I looked at the pictures from your website, and I have to say, there is something very wrong with his front legs. I am no expert, but there is some unfortunate filling in the pastern and fetlock of the left front, and they are very upright, especially the left front. What's wrong!! His trim does not look even to me on the fronts, nor the rears. I'm sorry to see this, he seems so nice, but there is something wrong with his front legs. They look bad, or wrong or something. His trim looks really uneven. Too bad!!

I believe she might be referring to the photo on your website where you are tacking him up. It is the only photo that has a fairly clear view of his front legs.

2WBs1TB
Oct. 5, 2009, 10:34 AM
Thanks for the input everyone, though I didn't post videos asking for a critique of the horse's gaits.

You've been posting here long enough to know if you post pics or videos, you will be critiqued whether you ask for it or not.


[edit]

Moderator 1
Oct. 5, 2009, 11:01 AM
We've removed/edited some comments. You're welcome to discuss photos and videos posted or linked to, but please avoid the snark and personal commentary.

Thanks,
Mod 1

mp
Oct. 5, 2009, 12:11 PM
And if you've followed any of my threads or posts on him, you would know that he was allowed to develop a grazing foot on the right front, and I have been working hard to correct it through proper trimming. He was hi/low and showed shoulder asymmetry and general overall unbalance and crookedness. This has improved significantly but chiropractic will be explored before he is asked to do any measurable amount of under saddle work.

I started with a horse in poor condition and in need of major work in multiple areas. One thing at a time.



Chiro is a good idea. And you might look into acupuncture, too. I faced a similar situation with my 14 y.o. mare. I rehabbed her from a small suspensory tear and then let her be a pasture potato for 2 years. She wasn't in poor condition -- as in wormy or underweight. She just got out of shape and became crooked. It's taken 18 months of "correcting" work -- asking her to move off square from a halt and in walk/trot transitions, doing leg yields and shoulder-in to her stiff side -- to start developing balanced musculature.

During that time, she also got five chiro and 3 acupuncture treatments from a veterinarian. And don't be surprised if he goes out in different places between treatments. As you bring your horse back into alignment, new places seem to keep presenting themselves. Just be patient. It's all just part of the process.

Also, I'd caution you against doing too much to correct the "grazing" foot. It's more likely a congenital club foot -- they're pretty common in Arabians. And IME 90% of the time, it's the right front. You'd be much better off just balancing the feet as best you can -- trim/shoe to the angle of the pastern -- than trying to make them even. You also may need to look into shoeing him. The above-referenced mare has a slightly clubbed RF (and it's not from grazing -- I've had her for 10 years) and I can't keep her barefoot. She just does much better in shoes.

Good luck.

edited to add more info.

ThreeFigs
Oct. 5, 2009, 12:27 PM
Ditto the chiropractic and acupuncture suggestions. Both of my horses get chiro (and accupuncture, if warranted) at least twice a year -- more often if they've had an accident of some sort, like slipping in TO. My mare likes to kneel down and reach under her run gate for grass. Talk about a chiropractic issue!

I believe in chiropractic/massage/accupuncture therapies for performance horses no matter what discipline.

Auventera Two
Oct. 5, 2009, 01:33 PM
Thank you mp and Beasmom. Yep, chiro should be very beneficial to him. Right now his under saddle work has just be very light, to get him used to some weight and a few light aids. He hasn't been asked for much yet.

Andre's grazing foot is not a "true genetic club." His feet were just not maintained and trimmed correctly. He was going too long in between trims, and his balance was very bad.

Before my first trim
http://www.hphoofcare.com/GrazingFootBefore.jpg
http://www.hphoofcare.com/GFDorsalBefore.jpg

After the trim
http://www.hphoofcare.com/GFDorsalAfter.jpg

Grazing foot after trimming - several trims ago (nothing recent, sorry)
http://www.hphoofcare.com/ARFLateralAfter.jpg

Here's the leg that's supposedly so swollen in the pastern and fetlock and "wrong."
http://www.hphoofcare.com/ALFDorsalAfter.jpg

hitch - the photo of him in tack was the photo I was referring to where his feet were horrible. Only had him a few weeks. You can't fix years of improper balance in a few weeks.

But regardless of all this - I didn't create a thread asking for a critique of the horse from stem to stern. I just wanted to say how proud I am of his progress, and that I'm very happy with him. He's a lovely boy, great personality. I'm having SO much fun with him :D Geeze.

Auventera Two
Oct. 5, 2009, 01:43 PM
The only one of his legs that has had ANY filling or swelling at all in the fetlock and pastern area would be this one:
http://www.hphoofcare.com/LHLateralAfter.jpg

When I got him, he had a case of "scratches" which is now resolved. For the first few months I had him, there was a bit of puffiness at times around the abrasion. This is evident on the fetlock in that photo.

ThreeFigs
Oct. 5, 2009, 01:48 PM
Ah! That explains the swelling, then.

Would love to see a more recent photo of the "grazing foot". Even after trimming, it still looks like a club foot to me. Just like the QH that's stabled next to my mare. I understand you can't fix some things overnight, but are you planning to drop that heel? The toe looks short & stumpy to me.

Auventera Two
Oct. 5, 2009, 03:43 PM
Yeah, except she claimed the left front is swollen and very wrong looking. Still no idea where that conclusion was drawn from. The photo shown with scratches was a HIND hoof.

He has a small scar on the canon bone, lateral aspect of the left front but it is just a small bump, no "unfortunate swelling" to be noted.

And no need to worry. The foot has been taken care of and looks normal at this point. The angles on both feet are the same, and the heel is back to a normal height. The horse had been trimmed with such high heels for so long, you don't dare just whack it all off in one or two trims. The soft tissue needs time to adjust. I got the hoof down to a correct balance over several trims and the horse was sound and happy through the change.

IrishKharma
Oct. 5, 2009, 04:21 PM
I've never heard the term graving hoof before. What does that mean exactly? His foot doesn't look club footed to me at all.

The prior trim, the look flaired and not even, but the trim appears to correct it?

hitchinmygetalong
Oct. 5, 2009, 04:45 PM
hitch - the photo of him in tack was the photo I was referring to where his feet were horrible. Only had him a few weeks. You can't fix years of improper balance in a few weeks.



Thank you for clarifying that. As the photo that shows his front legs is not dated, you can understand the confusion.

Also, AR might have said "left front" meaning the "right front" (as it is on the viewer's left), as I also see some filling in the fetlock on the right front. But since this is now what you admit to being a dated photo, there is no reason to comment. I was just hoping to clear up confusion.

Auventera Two
Oct. 5, 2009, 05:35 PM
Thanks for your abundant concern, but the horse has never had any filling his front legs at all. He is a heavier/bigger horse with a lot of bone, and isn't terribly refined. Not sure if that's what you're seeing. The only leg that has had any type of filling at all is the left hind where the scratches were.

Auventera Two
Oct. 5, 2009, 05:48 PM
I've never heard the term graving hoof before. What does that mean exactly? His foot doesn't look club footed to me at all.

The prior trim, the look flaired and not even, but the trim appears to correct it?

A grazing foot is when the horse always grazes with the same leg back, and the other leg forward, which puts a considerable amount of pressure on the toe of the foot that is back. The foot is always rocked forward on the toe, so the heel grows longer, and the toe dishes. Some people refer to a grazing foot as a "grade 1 club" but depending on the degree of defect, it may not even be that, or it may be worse. You can tape a reverse wedge on the foot to get an idea of how much heel can come off, or you can take the heel down slowly over a course of weeks and see how the horse does with it.

With a true flexural deformity (DDFT and bone involvement), attempts to "correct" the club usually results in lameness or a poor outcome. But when a horse just has a high heel due to improper trimming, you shouldn't get a lame horse or a worse gait as its corrected - unless you trim off too much at once and the soft tissue doesn't have time to adjust.

Eddy's Mom
Oct. 9, 2009, 03:52 PM
I just saw that this is a Khouros son. We had a Khouros son, Khouruser, he was one of my all-time favorites to ride, despite the fact I had to ride him in a race-horse setup because he was so ridiculously beligerent at rides. I loved him!! In 2006, I rode him to the to Top Earning AHA Sweepstakes Distance Horse of the Year. I'll have to try and scan a pic of him.

MrWinston
Oct. 9, 2009, 08:40 PM
He looks great now. I don't know why people feel the need to nit pick a horse when it's owner just posted an update on it's condition. I wasn't able to view the video but looked closely at the photos. I'm a conformation hunter person of many years and nothing jumped out at me that looked relevant to some of the comments. Nice job AT. I don't see a club foot, just two feet that were mismatched in the beginning as is pretty common. The trims seem to have made them match much better. I agree that the heels could come down a bit eventually. I'm sure you will be working on that. Sheesh!

Auventera Two
Oct. 10, 2009, 01:44 PM
EM - I would love to see a photo of your horse! :) I've been told that Khouros was a fabulous horse, great riding horse, great temperament and really stamped his babies but I don't know any others by that sire, so I don't have any personal experience.

MrWinston - LOL, yeah, it's the same ole' crowd. Regardless of what I post, they will find a way to attack it. Thanks for your post. Yes, his feet were definitely in bad shape, but they are much nicer now. It takes time to fix feet when they've been unbalanced and incorrect for so long.