eat the balance or go and get my pony back?

[theoldgreymare]

In mid August, I let one of my green ponies go out on trial. People paid some up front, signed a contract that said balance due at end of trial if they would be keeping the pony (which they have). To date, I have not received payment in full. I have received one payment of $200 since the trial ended.

I keep getting crazy stories from buyer about how she sent a money order but it got lost in the mail, how someone else wrote her a bad check so she couldn't pay me until that was straightened out. Always some story or excuse but in the next breathe tells me that they have been showing the pony. Hmmm......no money to pay me but you can show? Several promises of "I will get the check out right away" have been broken.

Now, I don't want the pony back as I don't have a rider as my kids are too big and I think it is a good home (despite a strong feeling that they are just putting miles on the pony and will flip her shortly). The pony is also several hours away from me in the Culpeper area (those of you from that area, feel free to PM me and I will gladly share the name of this thief). If I go to small claims court, it will cost me more in filing costs, process servers and time than the actual amount due. I feel the buyer is counting on this and hopes I will forget the balance due. The other option is that I just hook up the trailer and go get the pony (again costly in that I will have to reimburse money already spent, gas costs, time, etc). I consider the pony stolen at this point but don't know that law enforcement would agree with me...they would probably consider it a civil matter. Not sure how to proceed but I do know that I will not let her get away with this. I have let this go on too long as I was giving the buyer the benefit of the doubt thinking maybe she was just having a run of bad luck but enough is enough. I know I would win in court as everything is well documented (all communication has been via email) and contract was signed but what a PITA to do so. Not sure what I am going to do.......thoughts and suggestions are appreciated!

[Carrera]

I'd go get the pony.

[merrygoround]

I'm sure you'll get some of the CoTH legal eagles to weight in on this.

But I am sure I would not let it slide! these people need to be brought up short!!!!!!

[lcw579]

Perhaps, if you tell the woman you will be picking up the pony on such and such a date you will find a check in your mail box before you hitch up the trailer. She sounds like the type that has decided to give herself a discount on the pony and is counting on you not showing up to take the pony back.

If you are correct and she is planning on flipping the pony - are you sure she hasn't already? Are these shows recognized so you can look up the pony and who is listed as the owner? If you do know someone in the area it might be worthwhile to have someone stop by the barn and suss a few things out for you.

[spookhorse]

Personally I'd hook up and go get the pony and forget about what it's gonna cost to do so in gas and loss of the rest of the money from the sale. It's not about the money but the principle of the matter... this person has essentially stolen your pony and should not be allowed to get away with it, even if it's not worth it to take it to small claims court, this person should not be allowed to keep the pony.

[Quinn]

No, I really wouldn't eat the balance on this one either. It's a matter of principle.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

[theoldgreymare]

It's not about the money but the principle of the matter...

That is pretty much the same page I am on at this point.

She could have flipped the pony already. I am assuming the shows they are doing are unrated as the pony sat in a field for a year prior to the sale. No way they could have had her in shape for a rated show in the time span since they picked her up to the first alleged show. I should post a link to the pony's photo in case anyone has seen her at a show.....

[lcw579]

Post the picture. See what that turns up...

If you don't really want the pony back you can hope that threatening them with a date of your arrival will force them to send the check. But then you need to weigh whether tipping them off to your intentions would lead them to move the pony so you can't repossess it.

You can't let them win. You need to get your money or your pony.

[evans36]

I would go get the pony and not return the money they've given you without a fight. They kept the pony for a time and paid for the ownership of the pony during that time. I would think that, being faced with being left with no money AND no pony, they will pay for the balance (depending on how much is left).

But I also woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

[Sithly]

I would think twice about telling her you're coming to pick up the pony -- she may move it.

[BelladonnaLily]

Definitely post a picture. There are quite a few of us around that show the local shows in the area and may recognize the pony. Good luck.

[JohnDeere]

I would think twice about telling her you're coming to pick up the pony -- she may move it.

Agreed. If she doesnt want you to take the pony she can cough up the $ NOW or make a trailer trip to your barn & get the pony again.

Why do people assume this is ok? :confused:

[Laurierace]

I don't know how your particular contract was worded but generally speaking when one violates the contract terms the contract is null and no money would need to be refunded. I would go get the pony and re-sell it personally but the other option is small claims court. If you win they not only have to pay you what they owe you but also the fees associated with your case. It sound like an easy case to win to me.

[Trevelyan96]

I'd go get the pony. The money you've received so far can be considered lease fees for the pony. If you think they are going to flip it, then I would definitely not give them any warning.

But a lot would depend on exactly how much the pony is worth TO YOU compared to how much they've paid you for it to date.

[BuddyRoo]

I would NOT give notice, I would simply take a copy of the contract with you and go pick up pony IF your contract addresses this.

You might want to speak with an attorney first...but I think that giving them a heads up will only complicate matters.

I'd hitch up, go there, "Hi there, I've come to pick up pony due to breach of contract." If they don't want pony to go: "Fine. I'll wait here while you run to the bank and get cash for the remaining balance."

[FatPalomino]

I'd go get it to. You'll kick yourself hard if something bad happens to the pony. Plus, how does the liability work now? Say a kid at the thief's house gets hurt on said pony- can you be held responsible ????

[gieriscm]

Is the pony boarded? Will the BO/BM just let some unknown person come in and get the pony?

[Go Fish]

Call the local sheriff and make sure a deputy meets you at the barn when you go to pick up the pony. Have all your paperwork with you.

Does it state in your contract when final payment was due?

I think this case sums up nicely why I NEVER send a horse out on trial.

[BuddyRoo]

Most LE is not going to touch this....it's considered a civil matter.

I wouldn't make a big hoopla out of it. Just go, talk to the lady, load up the horse OR get cash in hand.

[SGray]

I'd go get the pony.

ditto

[asb_own_me]

I don't know how your particular contract was worded but generally speaking when one violates the contract terms the contract is null and no money would need to be refunded. I would go get the pony and re-sell it personally but the other option is small claims court. If you win they not only have to pay you what they owe you but also the fees associated with your case. It sound like an easy case to win to me.

Emphasis mine - I agree, this is how most agreements are worded.

I wouldn't give any heads up, either. Go get pony ASAP, and don't post any more details until you have the pony in your barn.

[skrgirl]

Theres a bunch of us showing in that area, if you post a picture we could probably give you some insight to what pony is doing.

[Where'sMyWhite]

Most LE is not going to touch this....it's considered a civil matter.

Yes, it would be a civil matter but many LE (and it will depend on their workload and staffing) may be able to present to preserve the peace during the removal of the pony.

[kookicat]

I would NOT give notice, I would simply take a copy of the contract with you and go pick up pony IF your contract addresses this.

You might want to speak with an attorney first...but I think that giving them a heads up will only complicate matters.

I'd hitch up, go there, "Hi there, I've come to pick up pony due to breach of contract." If they don't want pony to go: "Fine. I'll wait here while you run to the bank and get cash for the remaining balance."

Ditto this.

[cloudyandcallie]

I would go get the pony and not return the money they've given you without a fight. They kept the pony for a time and paid for the ownership of the pony during that time. I would think that, being faced with being left with no money AND no pony, they will pay for the balance (depending on how much is left).

But I also woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

Go get the pony. Keep the money they gave you and present them with a bill for the lease/use of the pony. Let them sue you in small claims court, as they sure don't have "clean hands."

BTW the filing fees and the court costs are recoverable in small claims court, but you sometimes have to levy on the people's assets, so filing liens can be a pain. If your state allows garnishment of wages for bad debts and judgments, it is a lot easier to collect by garnishing wages.

But I wouldn't give them any notice. I'd just show up with trailer, pick up pony, and leave. Take your ownership papers and any old coggins and vet bills and pictures of the pony, snatch pony and leave before they call the cops. As a lot of threads on coth have shown, the police won't usually go with you to get your pony, but they will show up to help the bad person retain your pony. (And no, possession is not legally 9/10 of the law, but possession gives people power.)
Take a halter and lead rope and everything you need to get the pony, and even stop by the local cops' station and notify them and ask them to go "cover" you. (The probably won't but at least you'll have shown them copies of your paperwork showing that you own the pony.)

If pony is at someone's private residence, go when they are at work, or taking their kids to school.
If at a commercial barn, go in morning and drive up, pick up, and leave. It's your horse till you transfer title.

[Drummerboy]

get pony sooner rather than later and if they want it back and IF you want to go forward, bank check or cash. And an invoice for the use of said pony from the date they took it on trial to the date it was picked up is a very good idea!

[Equibrit]

Go get the pony and don't give any warning.

[AiryFairy]

These people lie and obviously have no integrity, why would you trust them to be telling the truth about the welfare of the pony? Go get him, papers in hand, with a second (preferably intimidating and large) person in tow, and don't announce your intentions.

[Long Spot]

Go get your pony. Don't give notice to the person who has the pony. Do call LE and see if they can give you an assist.

This IS about principle. And I agree with the poster who said it is a reason to be so very concerned about letting animals go out on trial. No matter how many buyers tell you they wont buy with out one.

[jen-s]

Go get the pony!

[nightsong]

It's your horse till you transfer title.


Yup. And what does your CONTRACT say about non-payment? Maybe that's the thing. Or, check and see whether non-fulfillment of contract on their part does, truly, invalidate it. Then you just have YOUR PONY at someone else's place.

[goeslikestink]

In mid August, I let one of my green ponies go out on trial. People paid some up front, signed a contract that said balance due at end of trial if they would be keeping the pony (which they have). To date, I have not received payment in full. I have received one payment of $200 since the trial ended.

I keep getting crazy stories from buyer about how she sent a money order but it got lost in the mail, how someone else wrote her a bad check so she couldn't pay me until that was straightened out. Always some story or excuse but in the next breathe tells me that they have been showing the pony. Hmmm......no money to pay me but you can show? Several promises of "I will get the check out right away" have been broken.

Now, I don't want the pony back as I don't have a rider as my kids are too big and I think it is a good home (despite a strong feeling that they are just putting miles on the pony and will flip her shortly). The pony is also several hours away from me in the Culpeper area (those of you from that area, feel free to PM me and I will gladly share the name of this thief). If I go to small claims court, it will cost me more in filing costs, process servers and time than the actual amount due. I feel the buyer is counting on this and hopes I will forget the balance due. The other option is that I just hook up the trailer and go get the pony (again costly in that I will have to reimburse money already spent, gas costs, time, etc). I consider the pony stolen at this point but don't know that law enforcement would agree with me...they would probably consider it a civil matter. Not sure how to proceed but I do know that I will not let her get away with this. I have let this go on too long as I was giving the buyer the benefit of the doubt thinking maybe she was just having a run of bad luck but enough is enough. I know I would win in court as everything is well documented (all communication has been via email) and contract was signed but what a PITA to do so. Not sure what I am going to do.......thoughts and suggestions are appreciated!


get your trialer and go get your horse back

[BelladonnaLily]

Theres a bunch of us showing in that area, if you post a picture we could probably give you some insight to what pony is doing.

Pony has probably been to your show this summer. You definitely know who this is.

[cloudyandcallie]

Repossess your pony. Take as many big husky guys with you as you can muster. Tell cops you are repossessing your property (it's just like selling a car, you can repossess as long as you still have title.)
Take all your paperwork showing you own the pony. Also take copies of these documents to give to cops, BO, etc., anyone who questions your ownership. Keep your originals, so make several copies.
No notice to the people possessing your pony.
Take copies of any and all emails where she said she would pay you or couldn't pay you because of whatever problem.............
(again take several copies of everything and keep your originals in your truck...........you don't want them to get lost or torn up.)
Take your "bill" for the lease of pony. Make copies of that also. Don't be shy about charging the going rate to show a pony in your area.
Good luck.

[Zu Zu]

Repossess your pony. Take as many big husky guys with you as you can muster. Tell cops you are repossessing your property (it's just like selling a car, you can repossess as long as you still have title.)
Take all your paperwork showing you own the pony. Also take copies of these documents to give to cops, BO, etc., anyone who questions your ownership. Keep your originals, so make several copies.
No notice to the people possessing your pony.
Take copies of any and all emails where she said she would pay you or couldn't pay you because of whatever problem.............
(again take several copies of everything and keep your originals in your truck...........you don't want them to get lost or torn up.)
Take your "bill" for the lease of pony. Make copies of that also. Don't be shy about charging the going rate to show a pony in your area.
Good luck.
Listen to cloudyandcallie - THIS ADVICE IS spot on !!!! and EXTREMELY IMPORTANT !!

[mvp]

Wait a sec.

How much money is still owed? How much will it cost you to go get, feed and resell the pony you can't use? If you think you will lose way more money than you are owed, then what's the practical point, beyond principle?

I like getting self-righteously angry and evening the score just as much as the next CoTHer, so even if I just kept on with the 2x per month form letter about payment, I'd make my dissatisfaction with this local trainer and dealer widely known.

[Lady Counselor]

If that were me, no matter if I had a rider at home for her or not, just the fact that she is possibly in a somewhat precarious position right now (from your description of no money/lies/excuses/your feeling that they will 'flip' her) I would go get the pony.
Now.
If this woman is a fruitbat, who knows what sort of home she could sell her into?
I couldn't sleep at night if I felt that I left a horse in limbo like that.
Yes it's a PIA to have to take back another mouth, especially in the fall. But in the long run, you'll be better for having done that. Bet you end up with a home that is far better than this one too.

[Saidapal]

Don't warn them your coming. Preferably go get him on a Thursday - then it would be real inconvenient if they had a show planned for the upcoming weekend. Then I would tell her she can have the pony back after she has given me CASH for the balance owed, plus the costs of fetching the pony since if they had paid up front you wouldn't have had the expense of going to get him. I would also give her a drop dead date, "Either I have the cash money by XXX at 5:00p.m., or I will put the pony up for resale." And I would keep what they had already paid. If she wanted that money back I would make her fight for it. If she fought for it I would give it back....maybe. But I wouldn't be easy about it. I'd call it an aggravation fee.

[ayrabz]

I'm in full agreement with you getting that pony back! But I am curious, after re reading the Orig.Post...you mentioned that you let them have the pony on trial for a certain amount up front in 'mid August' -- then, after that time they were to pay you the remainder due, and you received a payment for $200.00. --Did your agreement say they could make up the remainder due in payments? If so, as its just the first of Oct, how many payments have they 'missed'? I mean, if you were to get a payment monthly, wouldn't the first one have been due in Sept. and now another one due mid October?
Sorry, but I was just trying to figure out, per your agreement, how much(or how many?) they've missed, and how late are they?
Regardless, best of luck!

[nightsong]

If that were me, no matter if I had a rider at home for her or not, just the fact that she is possibly in a somewhat precarious position right now (from your description of no money/lies/excuses/your feeling that they will 'flip' her) I would go get the pony.
Now.
If this woman is a fruitbat, who knows what sort of home she could sell her into?
I couldn't sleep at night if I felt that I left a horse in limbo like that.
Yes it's a PIA to have to take back another mouth, especially in the fall. But in the long run, you'll be better for having done that. Bet you end up with a home that is far better than this one too.

This.

[Law and Horse Sense]

Sorry to slow the momentum here, but I'm afraid I must raise the "caution" flag.

State laws could complicate your right to repossess. The process of repossession requires you to enter someone's property, find the horse, and take it away -- all without advance permission of the property owner or the one keeping the horse. Though it's certainly true that you're merely taking back your own property, the state law _might_ require that you first have an Order from the appropriate court authorizing you to repossess.

My suggestion is that you speak with a lawyer in the state who has expertise in debtor-creditor law (a general practitioner "equine lawyer" probably will not know the issues and would need to hit the books; this would likely require greater expense on your part). The lawyer will look carefully at your contract and explain your rights and procedures.

There's a risk to proceeding illegally. You could be arrested for trespass or some other law/infraction.

-- Julie Fershtman
www.equinelaw.net

[pj]

If she wanted that money back I would make her fight for it. If she fought for it I would give it back....maybe. But I wouldn't be easy about it. I'd call it an aggravation fee.

No, no, no. If something is repossesed you don't get back money you've paid on it.
Go get pony and don't even think about giving back the money.

[Horsepower]

I would go get the pony back. You don't know what kind of conditions this pony is really living under. If they can't afford to pay you, who knows what they are doing to feed and care for this pony. If they are willing to lie about payment, who knows what else they are lying about.

[JanM]

I would go get the pony, and if you warn them the pony will disappear. You're never going to get your money out of these people. I wonder if they still have the pony or if pony is long gone to another home?

[asb_own_me]

I would go get the pony back. You don't know what kind of conditions this pony is really living under. If they can't afford to pay you, who knows what they are doing to feed and care for this pony. If they are willing to lie about payment, who knows what else they are lying about.

I get a very strong impression that them not paying for the pony has little to do with money and a lot to do with them being total sheisters (http://sheister.urbanup.com/366973).

[Thomas_1]

I'd personally never ever let a horse go on trial without thoroughly checking out the prospective owners and without being paid first.

I'd also be straight round to get the pony back. I'd work on the theory that if they can't afford to pay for it that they can't afford to keep it.

Furthermore it's not theirs to keep.

[lindsay_aggie]

I have been in this situation before. If the people who have the pony are just deadbeats but not dangerous I wouldn't involve law enforcement or anything like that. My situation went like this:

I went to their farm and said "Hi, I am here to pick up the mare that you were buying from me because I haven't recieved a payment in months."

They said "Oh, but we love her and we can't stand to lose her. Leave her with us and we will send payment next week."

Me, "Nope too late."

I took the mare home and was paid in full the next day. These buyers were providing a good home and the mare was in great shape. I just don't get what people are thinking sometimes; like maybe I will just forget about the last few payments. Anyway, in my opinion involving law enforcement or bringing in a group of friends to help will just provoke them (UNLESS they seem in any way dangerous/unbalanced). Good luck with your pony.