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1horseRachel
Sep. 29, 2009, 07:59 PM
What is your opinion of Pintos in dressage?

scribbles
Sep. 29, 2009, 08:10 PM
a horses color does not affect its movement or ability. Some people are always going to prefer "classic" horses, dark bays, blacks etc. Personally am a fan of the pinto, and i have a sempatico baby due in the spring, but the color is just a bonus! I have seen a ton of really nice pintos at the top in dressage, jumpers, and eventing... i have also seen some that are never going to make it past the lower levels...

Petstorejunkie
Sep. 29, 2009, 08:10 PM
Pinto what?

quietann
Sep. 29, 2009, 08:10 PM
Pinto being a color, I am not sure about your question. Do you mean "Is there a bias against pinto-colored horses?" or "Is there a bias against the Pinto breed?" Very different questions! There are people on this board who show pinto-colored horses (often WBs or high-percentage WBs) and do very well with them.

One thing about any "unusual" color is that you will stand out, for better and for worse. I show a very flashy palomino Morgan, who can be quite naughty, and we do stand out negatively for that. At the same time, she is a lovely horse with very nice gaits for the lower levels, and we stand out positively for that.

ASBnTX
Sep. 29, 2009, 08:14 PM
I think you will be noticed! Now whether that's good or bad, is up to the horse and rider I would think. FWIW I hope to out there showing my pinto someday soon!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42013958@N04/3967683338/?eOrig=3871782815
(minus the grumpy ears..that's a grouchy mare trying to run him off)

Kyzteke
Sep. 29, 2009, 08:18 PM
"Is there a bias against the Pinto breed?"

As this poster noted, "pinto" is a color. There is no pinto "breed." There is a PAINT breed, but that is different.

All that aside, I really think in this country there is no bias based on color. I bred a Sempatico colt who not only scored high enough to win his very large foal inspection, but finished in the Top 20 of the nation that year for his registry...that would have been some 400+ foals.

paintlady
Sep. 29, 2009, 08:31 PM
Well, I show a registered chestnut overo Paint mare with one blue eye. She is also a registered Pinto. We're only showing Intro. at schooling shows though. I do get lots of "cute horse" comments from the judges even if she's not your "typical" dressage mount.

eponacelt
Sep. 29, 2009, 08:33 PM
Personally, I like horses with color, and haven't seen that they necessarily do any better or worse than horses of any other color if they are ridden well.

However, there is occasionally a pinto whose color can give a deceiving appearance - either good or bad. For example, there is a lovely little mare at my barn who works quite nicely, but because of her markings, she always gives the impression of being not quite round, even when she is. I'm sure that this is an optical illusion, but I'm sure it could throw off an unsuspecting judge here or there.

mypaintwattie
Sep. 30, 2009, 12:51 AM
As this poster noted, "pinto" is a color. There is no pinto "breed." There is a PAINT breed, but that is different.

There is a Pinto registry. Many horses registered with APHA are also registered with the PtHA. There are also horses registered with PtHA and not APHA, and the other way around. PtHA allows different breed types- if the horse has the color basically it can be registered PtHA if it falls in one of their breed types, whereas a horse registered APHA must have one parent registered with the APHA and the other parent APHA, AQHA, or Jockey Club.

As far as 'colored horses' in dressage, I have an APHA mare that holds her own in the dressage ring. She has the movement- the looks are an added bonus.

slc2
Sep. 30, 2009, 06:39 AM
I think most dressage judges are 'color blind', is what I think.

For many years, in the hunter ring, it was said that horses with a lot of white, or lighter or mixed colors, simply could not succeed. The 'hunter look' was the dark bay with little white and that was it. Well the hunter ring has changed.

For a long time, dressage consisted mostly of former hunt seat riders. And they brought their color prejudices with them. I'm not so sure the judges in dressage ever were that conscious of color, and that color thing never really appeared to be a part of European dressage scene. Warmbloods and the anglo arabs and others used in Europe over the decades have always varied in color and had lots of white markings, because, I think, people over there just didn't notice or care about it one way or another and didn't rigorously try to get it out of the gene pool.

If the horse simply isn't of a sport horse type, and has poor balance and gaits, then in a larger, more competitive show in a very strong class full of horses that had better balance and gaits, a rider might have a tough time getting a blue ribbon, because balance and gaits help a horse in performing the test just a little bit better and placing a little higher in the class. Obedience and accuracy still count for a lot, and a lot of less than ideal horses do well just from being well schooled.

If a horse is of a sport type, has good balance and good gaits, the rider and horse may place high in a class, despite the class being very competitive, because balance and gaits help them to score just that bit higher.

But most people aren't in there to get a blue ribbon, they are showing to better their own past scores, and school their horse, and have fun.

cyndi
Sep. 30, 2009, 01:12 PM
I've had two pintos i've shown i open, recognized dressage.

The first was a half Arab pinto and when I first started showing her in the early 90s we were the only pinto on the whole showgrounds. She did well, scored well and won many championships. Her career was interrupted many times due to lack of money on my part, a tendon tear, and two foals.

I am showing a pinto daughter of hers now - have gotten scores for my Bronze at first and second, and hope to get the ones at Third next year. Would have done it this year but she fractured her coffin bone a few months ago and was off a few months. Fortunately it was in the 'best' possible place for a fracture. She also has been very competitive, and has been champion, high score of show, etc. She has gotten better as she's moved up the levels. Even tho she's half Oldenburg, 1/4 Arab and 1/4 paint, she looks very baroque, and she's only 15h. But she has a super work ethic and just loves her job!

From last week:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCVGKSYOdg&feature=related

I will say if you have a pinto, the judge will remember you, for better or worse! My two have been very consistent and I think that's actually worked in my favor - judge expects them to do well!

KBEquine
Sep. 30, 2009, 04:48 PM
Personally, I like horses with color, and haven't seen that they necessarily do any better or worse than horses of any other color if they are ridden well.

However, there is occasionally a pinto whose color can give a deceiving appearance - either good or bad. For example, there is a lovely little mare at my barn who works quite nicely, but because of her markings, she always gives the impression of being not quite round, even when she is. I'm sure that this is an optical illusion, but I'm sure it could throw off an unsuspecting judge here or there.

I remember a piece of advice long ago by a top-level dressage rider who wasn't talking about a pinto necessarily, but said that funny as it sounds, you might want to be careful buying a dark horse with a crooked blaze that goes off one side of its nose - because the optical illusion might make the judge think the horse is twisting its head off-center. I want to say it was Hilda Gurney's advice on buying a dressage horse, but I'm probably wrong (so don't hold my likely lack of a correct memory against her).

I DO know that it is harder to judge some pintos in conformation classes because there are times your eye follows the color-line rather than the actual body outline.

atlatl
Sep. 30, 2009, 05:19 PM
Yeah, and Western Pleasure folks don't like horses with only white socks on the front and back of the same side. Diagonal legs OK, two socks behind OK, two socks in front icky. Something about maximizing the visual appeal of the lope.

coloredhorse
Sep. 30, 2009, 06:30 PM
My pinto is lovely. All others suck. There's an opinion for ya! :winkgrin:

slc2
Sep. 30, 2009, 06:49 PM
I think Hilda Gurney said that in her selecting the sport horse video, others say the same too.

There was an argus filly for sale some years ago that had one leg white up past her elbow.

MAN did she look cool.

Vibrant
Sep. 30, 2009, 10:36 PM
My pinto is lovely. All others suck. There's an opinion for ya! :winkgrin:

Love this. :D

My horse is not only pinto, but Arab/Saddlebred to boot. He has killer gaits and a fabulous work ethic. I can't wait to see how far we'll go together. :yes:

eponacelt
Oct. 1, 2009, 08:28 AM
I think Hilda Gurney said that in her selecting the sport horse video, others say the same too.

There was an argus filly for sale some years ago that had one leg white up past her elbow.

MAN did she look cool.

Now that sounds neat! I'd love to see that!

Shrunk "N" Da Wash
Oct. 1, 2009, 12:35 PM
A paint is a breed (I have had one)... I believe they have to be a colored QH. Pinto is a color they can be registered but it is a color registry not a "breed registry".
I have never ran into a color bias in dressage with either my paint or my pinto lol (I have had both). But the coloring has caused problems with scoring my horses walk. Her marking cause an illusion that she is 2-beating but really she isn't. We get either 5's or 8's depending on what they see :lol:

mypaintwattie
Oct. 1, 2009, 02:05 PM
A paint is a breed (I have had one)... I believe they have to be a colored QH. Pinto is a color they can be registered but it is a color registry not a "breed registry".
I have never ran into a color bias in dressage with either my paint or my pinto lol (I have had both). But the coloring has caused problems with scoring my horses walk. Her marking cause an illusion that she is 2-beating but really she isn't. We get either 5's or 8's depending on what they see :lol:

A registered paint must have one parent who is a registered paint, the other may be paint, quarter horse, or thoroughbred. You will find that many of the english bred paints have alot of thoroughbred in them.

mickeydoodle
Oct. 1, 2009, 02:11 PM
Ha ha, how appropriate- see the Naughty Pony in the spectacular halt thread!!!!!!!!!!! Of course the color is just incidental, but makes the halt more interesting.

NoDQhere
Oct. 1, 2009, 03:36 PM
This pinto just won the USDF / DSHB West Central Series Mare Championship. She is RPSI registered, 3/4 Trakehner by blood. We have not seen a color bias with judges.

Sandy M
Oct. 1, 2009, 05:28 PM
Is this a reference to the USDF "horse of the month" article. My reaction, too, was "Pinto WHAT?"

I would say, in general, that the Dutch Pintos like Art Deco have made the dressage world "safe" for pintos. Saddlebreds are doing well, so the Pinto ASBs are probably well thought of. Of course, since "All Paints are Pintos, but not all Pintos are Paints," there might be a residue of bias against obviously stock horse conformation Pintos/Paints, but in general I don't think there's the residual bias against Pintos that lingers on (in some cases) against Appies. It's hard to say, since both Paints/Pintos and Appies come in a variety of conformations - from Stockhorse to racehorse to Arab crosses.

Still, my new App (an Araloosa) has done well in his limited low level showing (as a 4.5 and 5 year old).....but I've had a couple of judges and/or spectators inquire as to "what his other half is..." and they have guessed TB, Trakhener and Hanoverian - to be shocked when told that, 16.2 or not, he's half-Arab. LOL

I think, thankfully, color is becoming irrelevant for MOST judges - training/movement/ accuracy and rider skill are being judged, and it's only a handful (I have a list!!!) who still cling to the "____________s (Pintos/Paints/Apps/Palominos) are not dressage horses" attitude.

cyndi
Oct. 1, 2009, 10:44 PM
Yea, I cringed when I saw the picture they used in the USDF magazine as an example of a pinto dressage horse... I went to the Pinto World Show in '06 and although I saw a lot of ...um....interesting...things in the dressage, I'd say about 1/3 of the competitors were knowledgeable, and competed in either schooling shows put on by their GMOs, or recognized shows. My half Arab pinto and I earned a Championship and a Reserve, and I thought it was hilarious that we got big honking belt buckles as 'trophies,' even in dressage. At least I live in Houston and once a year can wear one to the Rodeo! :lol:

Quest52
Oct. 1, 2009, 10:55 PM
all that joking aside... I think pinto is fine, as long as the horse is marked okay and doesn't have something uneven going on... I think you're generally fine.

crthunder
Oct. 2, 2009, 09:33 AM
Yea, I cringed when I saw the picture they used in the USDF magazine as an example of a pinto dressage horse... I went to the Pinto World Show in '06 and although I saw a lot of ...um....interesting...things in the dressage, I'd say about 1/3 of the competitors were knowledgeable, and competed in either schooling shows put on by their GMOs, or recognized shows. My half Arab pinto and I earned a Championship and a Reserve, and I thought it was hilarious that we got big honking belt buckles as 'trophies,' even in dressage. At least I live in Houston and once a year can wear one to the Rodeo! :lol:

That pinto from the USDF picture is at our barn - GAG is all I'm going to say. The trainer (riding) is our resident arab/asb trainer and he took the horse in dressage "for something else to do" The horse is in no way a good representitive of saddlebreds (he is a pb ASB) or dressage. They have since gone back to saddleseat and "hunter."

All I could think of was couldn't they find a better pinto for the picture? Slice & Todd didn't even PLACE in ANY dressage class!

Good grief USDF!

That said, I am actually insulted they listed Pinto as a BREED anyway!

Becky & the boys