15/16ths Welsh... that's 93.75%

[woweezowee]

Curious to know everyone's thoughts on this... I have an '09 colt by Telynau Royal Charter out of my childhood pony who is very well bred (colt's pedigree here (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/diggory+delvet) and photos at our website (http://www.vixenrun.com/)). We are planning to geld him, but what if someone was interested in keeping him a stallion -- he can only be "Half-Welsh" registered (which is same with my Welsh/TB colt) and the 1/16th of him that isn't Welsh is the Dam of famous producing mares Broadaxe Chablis (dam of Triple Hill, Blue Nun, Joan DArc). It seems inaccurate for a 50% Welsh and a 93.75% Welsh to be part of the same Registry (along with his hypothetical foals who would be 31/32nds Welsh,.

Just musing about whether there might ever be the possibility of another level of registry between 1/2 and full Welsh. Also wondering about the procedure in the past for breeding in Arabian and TB to the Welsh bloodlines.

[VirginiaBred]

Highly doubtful.

It's either welsh or 1/2 welsh. There are many, many ponies out there that are 3/4's welsh, 3/4th TB, etc. but it makes no difference.

[Tamara in TN]

Just musing about whether there might ever be the possibility of another level of registry between 1/2 and full Welsh. Also wondering about the procedure in the past for breeding in Arabian and TB to the Welsh bloodlines.


I wish, but there is not much chance of it....outsiders can be bred to the welsh provided the welsh in question is a purebred to begin with...so the colt will be half welsh

best

[woweezowee]

That's right... I forgot that to even have a Half-Welsh one of the parents needs to be purebred (can't be 1/2+1/2)

[VirginiaBred]

That's right... I forgot that to even have a Half-Welsh one of the parents needs to be purebred (can't be 1/2+1/2)

Right. That would be a crossbred x crossbred.

[JWB]

Is he eligible to be presented to one of the pony warmblood registries? For instance could he and the mare be approved and HIM registered with the AWR/BWP/German Riding Pony, etc books? I'm not sure what the pedigree requirements are but I know many of those are largely welsh....

Just curious if you think he is really stallion quality.:confused:

[rideagoldenpony]

There is a very beautiful large half Welsh stallion by Charter (he's actually 3/4 Welsh, I believe, though his mother has no papers -- though I think she might have been ASPR inspected) here on the west coast. He's won a TON, is well shown, well mannered, gorgeous hunter mover, etc.

He's advertised, good pictures are used, nice owner.

I've never heard of him getting a single outside mare.

Sure, there maybe have been a few, but I don't think he's getting many -- and it isn't for lack of quality or any other issue. I just think it is very hard to stand a non-purebred pony stallion. Yes, there are a few famous Big Name stallions that attract lots of mares, but for most non-purebreds, their biggest value is going to be as a really nice gelding.

[Molly Malone]

Just musing about whether there might ever be the possibility of another level of registry between 1/2 and full Welsh.

I believe this is something that causes much heartache in the Welsh world because it would be nice to have the 'Welsh bit' recognized in the pony breeding world. I don't see it happening unless the BOD face a coup though;)

[VirginiaBred]

.......Yes, there are a few famous Big Name stallions that attract lots of mares, but for most non-purebreds, their biggest value is going to be as a really nice gelding.



Truer words were never spoken. Agreed, 1000%.

*edited to add, The crossbred stallions that do manage outside mares are due largely in part to a very traceable (and familiar) pedigree (first and foremost) OR, to the person connected to that stallion (owner, person standing).

[Tamara in TN]

I believe this is something that causes much heartache in the Welsh world because it would be nice to have the 'Welsh bit' recognized in the pony breeding world. I don't see it happening unless the BOD face a coup though;)


kinda like me and Exvet sitting on the BOD????:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

it is my fondest wish they the Partbreds could be recognized more than they are

best

[pintopiaffe]

That's the same as the Arab registry. My 15/16ths stallion is only eligible 'half' and so only foals out of purebred mares are eligible for registry there.

I've gone around it by getting him approved other registries. But it's $$.

[Molly Malone]

kinda like me and Exvet sitting on the BOD????:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


uh huh. Up there with me becoming Pope.

[woweezowee]

Thanks everyone for the feedback ...

but for most non-purebreds, their biggest value is going to be as a really nice gelding.

This is exactly what we are planning to do -- geld away!! I was never seriously considering keeping him a stallion; the question just arose in my mind because as you all said, a great stallion is a great stallion but it seems those who aren't Purebred have an uphill battle.

[VirginiaBred]

Good luck & have fun with him! :)

[Sugarbrook]

If I am having an "uphill battle" with my two stallions who are half welsh (really much more than half) then nobody told me!!!

[Windswept Stable]

Someone must have forgotten to tell me too Sandy. My crossbred /Welsh K stallion has been plenty busy.

Mean remarks from some of you.

Good luck to the op.

[Windswept Stable]

Someone must not have told Ashmont farm years ago either-- that it was a bad idea to have a crossbred stallion.

How many years is it now--that Blue Rain is USEF- SIRE OF YEAR PERFORMANCE Hunter ponies..?

Hmmmmm... its either 4 or 5 years now.


Seems like maybe there IS a place for crossbred stallions.

[rideagoldenpony]

Seriously -- my post was not directed at anyone in particular -- rather at the issue of standing a crossbred stallion. For those of you that ARE successful with your boys (and I'm certainly NOT disputing that!) there are tons more who are NOT getting mares -- and it isn't always for lack of quality.

I'm certain that Blue Rain certainly does not fall into the "average" of what a crossbred stallion attracts, mare wise. I'm sure Power and Sandy's stallions don't either!

Peace, ladies. :)

[Sugarbrook]

OH, but maybe we were talking about Pure Bred Welsh Ponies that show at the welsh shows. I didnt think about that. I always assume (obviously incorrectly) that we are talking about HUNTER PONIES.

[VirginiaBred]

And if my post was read (note the edited to add part in particular) it would have been crystal clear.

[Windswept Stable]

Peace. I made the assumption that we were talking hunter ponies as I will be perfectly honest, I dont know a thing about welsh shows. We show at hunter shows. Not to say we will never show at a welsh show, but thats not what we do right now. \

In all due respect, I think the same issues apply to some of the welsh stallions. There are tons and tons of Purebred Welsh Stallions. I am fairly certain they do not all have full books like Mardi Gras or like Scott's Foxtrot.
Gretchen-You do a good job of promotion, Mardi is lovely and proves himself over and over and the bookings come. Scott and Randee know tons and tons of people and know how to promote a stallion and Foxtrots get are proving themselves.
However, there are many a folk out there--that have not a clue about promoting anything--much less their stallions --wether they are well-bred and nice or not. Both purebred and partbred.

[woweezowee]

I was referring to hunter ponies and not breeding for Welsh shows...


I was thinking of Blue Rain and Hidden Creeks Rain Fox as not-purebred, but mostly Welsh successful hunter stallions... which made me think, what are reasons a HUNTER breeder wouldn't breed to a Half-Welsh? Registrations don't matter in terms of show qualifications in the Hunter world, and posters have said, marketability seems to be a key determinant in the success of a stallion (brings to mind horse stallions stood for breeding ponies like Larry's Hat)... the only thing that would scare me off is not being able to as accurately estimate the size (more of a question with the true Half Welsh than with a Registered half welsh who is 3/4, 7/8... etc Welsh).

I guess if someone wanted the bloodlines to be verified and foal was not eligible because of the Half-Welsh rules, you could still have bloodlines recorded through USEF registration.

[Sugarbrook]

I agree with Windswept.

Had to add that we are mighty proud of my own homegrown, Bluetiful, by my stallion Sugarbrook Blue Pacific, (Half Welsh), that is #1 USEF in Small Green Pony Hunters.

[woweezowee]

And in any case, kudos to those of you who do stand Non-Purebred Welsh Ponies (Sugarbrook & Windswept)... I think Empire's Power, Blue Pacific and Blue Who (as well as some of the other non-Purebreds mentioned) add variety and options to the pony breeding world. The dam of the original colt in question is 14 hands and 7/8 Welsh so I am exceedingly thankful for the stallions that could give me a Large pony out of her.

I have also been thinking about the possibility of large pony x XLarge horse crosses to get a small horse and the crossbred pony stallions/mares would be ideal for that.

[quicksilverponies]

I was going to mention both Sugarbrook's and Windswept's stallions as great examples of successful crossbred pony stallions and then they both chimed in. I have a Vida Blue daughter in foal to Sandy's Vida Blue son and cant wait for that one to arrive! The mare throws amazing foals as does Sandy's Sugarbrook Blue Pacific so I am more than happy to have bred to a crossbred stallion. I think it really depends on the quality of the individual as others have stated. And the pedigree should be outstanding as well. JMO

[VirginiaBred]

I was referring to hunter ponies and not breeding for Welsh shows...


I was thinking of Blue Rain and Hidden Creeks Rain Fox as not-purebred, but mostly Welsh successful hunter stallions... which made me think, what are reasons a HUNTER breeder wouldn't breed to a Half-Welsh?

Hunter breeders will breed to a half welsh, but more times than not with a purebred mare. And I love Larry's Hat!!! :)

[exvet]

kinda like me and Exvet sitting on the BOD????

What did I hear? We're running for office? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Uh I think we need to wait for a few more "passings" whether of the baton or in other context ;)

It seems ironic in a way that the WPCSA is willing to lose so many potential ambassadors of the breed. They complain about not having enough money, support or resources yet each and every time a new (or old) idea is presented that could increase revenue, the first obstacle they throw up is that it will create more work. I say let them continue to make their bed and lie in it :D

[Windswept Stable]

And in any case, kudos to those of you who do stand Non-Purebred Welsh Ponies (Sugarbrook & Windswept)... I think Empire's Power, Blue Pacific and Blue Who (as well as some of the other non-Purebreds mentioned) add variety and options to the pony breeding world. The dam of the original colt in question is 14 hands and 7/8 Welsh so I am exceedingly thankful for the stallions that could give me a Large pony out of her.

I have also been thinking about the possibility of large pony x XLarge horse crosses to get a small horse and the crossbred pony stallions/mares would be ideal for that.

Thank you. Again you are right with the downsizing option with the crossbred stallion. Power's book this year included 3 large TB mares, and this year he is sire of a beautiful filly out of a 17.2 hand Swedish Warmblood for downsizing purposes. I would show you photos of her but she is listed as for sale and I dont want to get in trouble but she is on my website / client owned for anyone that purely wants to see what the downsize looks like out of the Warmblood mare.

[VirginiaBred]

I want to see pictures of those foals out of TB mares. In my opinion those will be a great cross and a fabulous market for him!

[woweezowee]

Again you are right with the downsizing option with the crossbred stallion. Power's book this year included 3 large TB mares, and this year he is sire of a beautiful filly out of a 17.2 hand Swedish Warmblood for downsizing purposes.

Filly is adorable! I'd love a horse with the look of a super fancy pony with the suspension and big movement of a Warmblood.

[Janet]

It is the same with Connemaras nowadays. Though once-upon-a-time, if you had (I think) 6 genersations of Connemara (1/128th other?), you could register as a purebred.

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=exvet;4401443]kinda like me and Exvet sitting on the BOD????

What did I hear? We're running for office? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I'll nominate you and you can nominate me and we can both refuse to run if nominated and not to serve if elected:winkgrin:

best in the rain....

[Summerwood]

Woweezowee,
your colt is beautiful and Charter is OUTSTANDING as well as the fact that Tammy could not be a more accomodating stallion owner.

I bred my purebred mare to Sugarbrook Blue Pacific for a hunter foal. She herself has popular hunter lines (Cloe Olympian, Findeln Blue Danube), and she is very typey. I wanted to add some height (she is a B but she is small) but maintain her welsh type. This is something I feel a half-welsh's niche can be, to add height and still maintain the type. The last thing I would want to do is lose those beloved welsh characteristics. I got a very typey welsh colt who is still filling out but looks like he will be a nice size medium. He seems to be a little more refined so far than her also which was a good thing for me. He of course can only be registered half-welsh but he has a ton of welsh blood in him. I would love it if the WPSCA would help us out a little bit with the registrations but it seems most hunter people could give a lick about registration. I personally like to have several options as far as showing (and marketing) so I will always make sure I can get at least a half-registered foal. Just my opinion.

[MagicRoseFarm]

RE Downsizing...

our Welsh/ Hanoverian stallion is getting big mares too,, warmblood and TB... there is more than one market for the crossbreds

[Windswept Stable]

I want to see pictures of those foals out of TB mares. In my opinion those will be a great cross and a fabulous market for him!

Stay tuned til spring. One of the TB's -was referred by Dick Strauss & I really can not wait to see that one.
Also can't wait to see Blue Nun's Power foal!

[LovesHorses]

I am on my 5th Charter offspring. Love them!!

Hey Gretchen, The owner of that stallion, you know who I mean, doesn't do anything with her ponies, let alone the stallion. No one knows about him. I never see him advertised anymore. You have to put effort into these ponies to get something back. I see your ponies all over the place. As a result, you make money!

Summerwood, I bought a Charter x Findeln Blue Danube mare this summer. She is adorable and kept the Welsh type. Although she has a great mind and is a quick learner, she is small at 12.2 and fine boned. Tammy told me that came from the mare line. I see why you would breed that mare to a Half-Welsh. Good thinking.

[llsc]

Filly is adorable! I'd love a horse with the look of a super fancy pony with the suspension and big movement of a Warmblood.


I have a truly lovely horse that is half Welsh, TB and Holstiner. It's an amazing cross. He's by the very popular crossbred stallion, Mapleside Mr. Magic.

Here's a picture of my horse when he did the Young Hunters at Devon
http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2807453340084673271DVddLo

Two videos of him

Trotting:
http://pets.webshots.com/video/3009058100084673271ScmTMd

Cantering:
http://pets.webshots.com/video/3002811230084673271rLPfSA

Mapleside Mr. Magic has tons of really nice foals out of Welsh mares.

[Summerwood]

LovesHorses, thank you. That particular mare has been bred 3x to larger purebred stallions, producing smalls, before I owned her. She does tend to have smaller babies. Perhaps your mare's dam was the same.