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slc2
Sep. 25, 2009, 07:31 AM
Henri van Shaik wrote a book of this title years ago. Anyone want to muse over it or any of the things they see as 'myths' in dressage?

Thomas_1
Sep. 25, 2009, 07:32 AM
It's a myth that it's exciting!

It's a myth that only people who are good riders do it!

It's a myth that its for everyone!

It's a myth that all riders can do it and be great at it!

It's a myth that all horses can do well at it!

It's a myth that a draft horse is ideally suited for it!

It's a myth that dressage horses are somewhat superior to all other horses!

It's a myth that dressage riders are superior to or know more than other riders!

It's a myth that riding round an arena is dressage!

It's a myth that dressage horses have to be schooled all day every day bounded by arena confines!

It's a myth Henri Van Shaik's name is spelt that way! Or is there another one aside from Henri van Schaik??

[edit]

Alagirl
Sep. 25, 2009, 07:39 AM
LOL, is it fullmoon yet?

stolensilver
Sep. 25, 2009, 07:44 AM
Biggest myth I see repeated is that you can train a horse in dressage in total harmony every step of the way. I don't know where this myth has come from, it's not even classical! It seems to be a modern phenomenon and is, I think, responsible for more unhappy riders and horses than anything else.

Gustav Steinbrecht (Das Gymnasium des Pferdes, 1935, English translation, Xenophon Press, 1995, 220) reminds his readers:
"Even with the greatest of care and the most serious diligence, no one should dream that it would be possible to reach the goal smoothly and without obstacles. With every horse you take in training, if it appears to be the most evidently suitable riding horse, be prepared for disappointments, embarrassments, and fights; then you might possibly not lose your good humor; and that is really the most important in all of your work."

egontoast
Sep. 25, 2009, 09:18 AM
it'th a mythtery

lorilu
Sep. 25, 2009, 11:24 AM
If you give the right aid, the horse will offer the right response. If the response is wrong, it is always the rider's fault.

egontoast
Sep. 25, 2009, 11:37 AM
Myths

correct work can be identified by measuring the angle of the horse's nose in relation to the ground

the reins must always feel light like silken threads

Moderator 1
Sep. 25, 2009, 11:39 AM
Please avoid the personal commentary. If you're not interested in a thread topic, ignore it. We've removed some posts.

Thanks,
Mod 1

angel
Sep. 25, 2009, 12:13 PM
It's a myth that you can do a proper sitting trot in an all purpose or forward seat saddle.

It's a myth that the rider's hands are evenly positioned all the time.

It's a myth that the rider should squeeze with both legs at the same time.

It's a myth that the rider should take both arms forward such that the upper arms are not vertical with the torso.

It's a myth that a rider should be able to balance correctly in the saddle, even when that saddle is too small.

It's a myth that the rider never uses her hands. However, the problem is that she is taught only about using her hands, and not about correctly using the leverage of the stirrups along with the hand correction.

It is a myth that a more expressive horse is more difficult to ride. If they are, it means that they are not in balance.

It's a myth that you can achieve a lenthening just by "opening your hands, and allowing it to happen."

It's a myth that upper level riders can do not wrong.

It's a myth that lower level riders are incapable of seeing things the upper level riders are doing wrong.

It's a myst that most riders understand a "half-halt."

Those are the ones that come most quickly to mind, but I bet I could make this list much longer if I really tried.

narcisco
Sep. 25, 2009, 12:51 PM
I think the biggest myth of all is that dressage means training.

Then people think dressage is a panacea for any training issue. There are horses who would rather be doing something else, or doing it with a different rider, and there are riders who should stay miles away from a dressage arena. It scares me when people think every dressage horse should be able to bop down a trail bridless, ride double, carry a tarp, jump a course and work a cow.

goeslikestink
Sep. 25, 2009, 01:05 PM
its a myth to learn by books alone or to cut copy and paste and re write the original

MistyBlue
Sep. 25, 2009, 01:15 PM
It's a myth than it can be ridden or trained correctly ever.

No horse no rider will ever get it right. At least according to everything I've ever seen written about dressage and all the comments from dressage folks.

You will never get it right. Neither will your horse. And your trainer is all wrong too. :winkgrin: (and this applies to everyone, from casual reading lesson taker to Olympic gold medalists)

goeslikestink
Sep. 25, 2009, 01:27 PM
its a myth to beleive you dealing with one persnality - ie yourself
as there the horses to consider and the person whos instructing you

JanDinWA
Sep. 25, 2009, 02:07 PM
It's a myth that the title of Dr. van Schaik's book is "Myths of Dressage". The book title is actually "Misconceptions and Simple Truths in Dressage".

egontoast
Sep. 25, 2009, 02:10 PM
The book title is actually "Misconceptions and Simple Truths in Dressage".

Bingo. I have read that book and I knew that title posted here sounded wrong.

Thomas_1
Sep. 25, 2009, 03:12 PM
Well I knew that earlier and it's why I posted what I did but seems it meant I took a ticking off from the moderator!

Hey ho I'll continue as always to alay misconceptions and out falsity and get to the simple truth

AnotherRound
Sep. 25, 2009, 03:18 PM
I knew you were tongue in cheek, T. I think this is a good topic. I'm not edumacated enough to know what is a myth and what ones I have encountered. Good stuff to ruminate about, actually.

goeslikestink
Sep. 25, 2009, 07:00 PM
Well I knew that earlier and it's why I posted what I did but seems it meant I took a ticking off from the moderator!

Hey ho I'll continue as always to alay misconceptions and out falsity and get to the simple truth

well perhaps they never read the book so didnt know what you meant

xQHDQ
Sep. 25, 2009, 07:17 PM
Biggest myth I see repeated is that you can train a horse in dressage in total harmony every step of the way. I don't know where this myth has come from, it's not even classical! It seems to be a modern phenomenon and is, I think, responsible for more unhappy riders and horses than anything else.

Gustav Steinbrecht (Das Gymnasium des Pferdes, 1935, English translation, Xenophon Press, 1995, 220) reminds his readers:
"Even with the greatest of care and the most serious diligence, no one should dream that it would be possible to reach the goal smoothly and without obstacles. With every horse you take in training, if it appears to be the most evidently suitable riding horse, be prepared for disappointments, embarrassments, and fights; then you might possibly not lose your good humor; and that is really the most important in all of your work."


So true! I got very frustrated until I realized this. Thanks for the quote.

Fixerupper
Sep. 25, 2009, 11:35 PM
It's a myth that a dressage (or any) horse can be ridden 'in front of the leg'
(or so it would seem..... by observing most rides) ;-)

mbm
Sep. 26, 2009, 02:13 AM
it's a myth that reading the ODGs is useless :)

it's also a myth that riding in harmony wont get you anywhere,

or that the goal of self carriage and "silken threads" is unattainable.

hmmmmm.... lets seee...... it's a myth that those that prefer not to show can't ride.

or how about its a myth that trainers that don't show cant train.....

the myth that i got really stuck on was that you shouldn't use your hands..... that one really messed me up for a while :)

i think the biggest myth of all is: the horse gets extra points for swishing its tail in time to the music. ;)

stolensilver
Sep. 26, 2009, 07:48 AM
It is a myth that reading every word every ODG ever wrote will teach you enough to do dressage.

I could expand that to reading every word that has ever been written about riding will teach you how to ride well. Its a bit like swimming. You can read about swimming for your whole life but until you jump in the pool and get wet you still can't swim.

It is also a myth that any book can tell you the whole story of riding. Firstly a lot of what you need to know is not politically correct so never gets in a book at all. Secondly how do you describe a feeling so accurately and preciscely that every person with all their different experiences and understandings will know exactly what you meant? It simply isn't possible. That is a bit like giving someone directions without knowing where their starting point is.

slc2
Sep. 26, 2009, 10:54 AM
stolensilver, why do you think those books are written with so much of the learning process not described?

Is it really how we read them? Or is it how they are intentionally written, to describe the ideal or the goal or the perfection that doesn't exist, rather than the process or the pains along the way?

Chris Bartle's book is, I think one that actually describes the process. And I think very few people can bear the book, LOL.

angel
Sep. 26, 2009, 11:16 AM
What is the name of Chris Bartle's book, slc2?

slc2
Sep. 26, 2009, 11:49 AM
Training the Sport Horse.

There isn't anyone who has ever broken down the training of the horse into quite the same kind of steps as he does, or defined things quite how he does. It's a very intellectual approach, yet full of feeling. Totally unique. If anyone ever wants to understand the basics fully, that's the book.

Stacie
Sep. 26, 2009, 12:01 PM
It's a myth that it's exciting!
....

[edit]
*I* find it exciting. But I get excited about *any* improvement that shows the horse is learning, getting stronger, more supple, etc.
So my life seems boring. I'm a software engineer for chrissakes...

Thomas_1
Sep. 26, 2009, 12:55 PM
Chris Bartle's book is, I think one that actually describes the process. And I think very few people can bear the book, LOL.

Chris is a good friend and I'm thinking was a better practitioner and genuine horseman by the time he was 18 than you'll ever be. He's also a better writer and for sure evidences wisdom and experience rather than google skills.

However I'm pretty confident he'd not lose sleep with your literary critique as he's done pretty well without your endorsement.

grayarabpony
Sep. 26, 2009, 01:03 PM
it's a myth that reading the ODGs is useless :)

it's also a myth that riding in harmony wont get you anywhere,

or that the goal of self carriage and "silken threads" is unattainable.

hmmmmm.... lets seee...... it's a myth that those that prefer not to show can't ride.

or how about its a myth that trainers that don't show cant train.....

the myth that i got really stuck on was that you shouldn't use your hands..... that one really messed me up for a while :)

i think the biggest myth of all is: the horse gets extra points for swishing its tail in time to the music. ;)

I like this post.


It's a myth that it's exciting!
[edit]

It is when it's done right. When it's not it's as exciting as watching paint dry.

stolensilver
Sep. 26, 2009, 01:08 PM
I've never read Chris Bartle's book but will look out for it. It sounds good.

Why do I think so much is left out of books on riding? Because if people wrote the entire truth they would have no reputation left. I'm not saying that horses get mistreated when they are trained but we all (or at least most of us) have come across a place where our horse has objected to the training and we have had to work them through it. If you spent 5 chapters of a book explaining how to work through crises what do you think other, rival horse trainers would say about you? In times past the playing field was even more cutthroat than it is now as horses were such an integral part of everyone's life. There were duels fought over different training methods and human blood was shed. Humans seldom miss an opportunity to put a rival down and so authors have to be careful what they write as once it is down on paper they cannot take it back.

slc2
Sep. 26, 2009, 02:16 PM
I think you're right. But I also think that some people will take even the most sensible reasonable statement, and rip into it, and twist it around and distort it, just to criticize the author and make them look bad. I think honesty is also sometimes used by disreputable people to turn around and actually justify their own beating and mistreating of horses.

I stand by the comments about Bartle's book in spite of Thomas1's personal attack. I think Christopher Bartle would be just as happy to hear an ordinary adult amateur enjoyed his book as he would be to hear a famous skilled trainer had found it resonated well to him or her. I think even the top trainers in the world are pleased when they get thru to the ordinary rider and improve their understanding, even the tiniest little bit.

For me, as an adult amateur, the book reads as a welcome relief from vague generalities and the regurtitated material found in many articles and books. It is also original, and reads like no other book on training horses for eventing and dressage. In particular I think it would appeal to the many folks who go at dressage training from a very intellectual angle and like to see things analyzed in a practical, orderly way. The book manages to do with without minimizing the need for feel and sensitivity.

The younger folks here might not be familiar with Christopher Bartle. Years ago he had the most incredible Thoroughbred he showed internationally, Wily Trout. People who want to event and jump and do dressage would probably find a lot to like in Bartle's book.

egontoast
Sep. 26, 2009, 02:16 PM
bartle's book sounds interesting.

Myth:

You can make a fortune by buying OTTBs with leg problems and flipping them as dressage horses!

Hoofprince in Mud
Sep. 26, 2009, 02:20 PM
Myth:

People who ride the least, know the most.

egontoast
Sep. 26, 2009, 02:23 PM
More myths:

warmbloods are the same as draft crosses

all my dressage horses seem to need pelhams because ...er... they do according to my trainer!


People who ride the least, know the most.

or

People who ride the least, THINK THEY know the most.


That isso true. it's a humbling sport. The more you go on , the less you know. Seriously.

Eventually you are jello.

goeslikestink
Sep. 26, 2009, 02:59 PM
I think you're right. But I also think that some people will take even the most sensible reasonable statement, and rip into it, and twist it around and distort it, just to criticize the author and make them look bad. I think honesty is also sometimes used by disreputable people to turn around and actually justify their own beating and mistreating of horses.

I stand by the comments about Bartle's book in spite of Thomas1's personal attack. I think Christopher Bartle would be just as happy to hear an ordinary adult amateur enjoyed his book as he would be to hear a famous skilled trainer had found it resonated well to him or her. I think even the top trainers in the world are pleased when they get thru to the ordinary rider and improve their understanding, even the tiniest little bit.

For me, as an adult amateur, the book reads as a welcome relief from vague generalities and the regurtitated material found in many articles and books. It is also original, and reads like no other book on training horses for eventing and dressage. In particular I think it would appeal to the many folks who go at dressage training from a very intellectual angle and like to see things analyzed in a practical, orderly way. The book manages to do with without minimizing the need for feel and sensitivity.

The younger folks here might not be familiar with Christopher Bartle. Years ago he had the most incredible Thoroughbred he showed internationally, Wily Trout. People who want to event and jump and do dressage would probably find a lot to like in Bartle's book.

well one would know that wouldnt they when one cuts copy paste and re writes the words written into there own - staements of facts
which is a myth

mbm
Sep. 26, 2009, 08:00 PM
hey folks -
we get that a certain few of you don't like a certain other few of you. how could we not get it when we are reminded multiple times a day in multiple threads, day after day, week after week , year after year?

it is also obvious that none of the "targets" are going to go "away" -

so can't those of you that feel the need, just type the post and delete it? or, maybe -yell into a pillow, or write in chaulk on your sidewalk, or hire a sky writing plane, or use dry erase pens and spew it out on a white board.... lots of creative ideas to vent about the people here you dont like.... without it ending up here where many many 1000s of innocent bystanders end up ingesting the negativity and hostility.*

bleh.

so can't you just ignore those you don't like instead of jabbing and poking ad nausea?

please?




* and yes, we don't have to read it, however some of you write an entire post just to set up for the last line which ends up being an insult to another poster...

mswillie
Sep. 26, 2009, 08:32 PM
Biggest myth I see repeated is that you can train a horse in dressage in total harmony every step of the way. I don't know where this myth has come from, it's not even classical! It seems to be a modern phenomenon and is, I think, responsible for more unhappy riders and horses than anything else.

Gustav Steinbrecht (Das Gymnasium des Pferdes, 1935, English translation, Xenophon Press, 1995, 220) reminds his readers:
"Even with the greatest of care and the most serious diligence, no one should dream that it would be possible to reach the goal smoothly and without obstacles. With every horse you take in training, if it appears to be the most evidently suitable riding horse, be prepared for disappointments, embarrassments, and fights; then you might possibly not lose your good humor; and that is really the most important in all of your work."

Sometimes amidst all the chatter and the sniping and the backbiting someone posts a real gem. In my opinion this is one of them. Thanks for the quote. I'm going to print it and keep it handy for the not so wonderful rides.

Maybe I'd better make several copies. I'll probably wear them out rather quickly. :winkgrin:

egontoast
Sep. 26, 2009, 08:58 PM
mbm, last time I checked you were not a moderator. If you have a problem, report it to the mods. You aren't exactly the poster child for the kumbaya thing. Glass houses and such.:)

twofatponies
Sep. 26, 2009, 09:05 PM
hey folks -
we get that a certain few of you don't like a certain other few of you. how could we not get it when we are reminded multiple times a day in multiple threads, day after day, week after week , year after year? ...

Ditto!

I actually enjoy all of their posts very much. Just not the bickering parts.

The "myth" I am pondering lately is that dressage is the ultimate expression of the human understanding of how to properly train and develop a horse. Perhaps it is, but I find it hard to believe that no where in the world in all of history did any other culture have a carefully thought out system for horse training...

slight
Sep. 26, 2009, 09:14 PM
Gustav Steinbrecht (Das Gymnasium des Pferdes, 1935, English translation, Xenophon Press, 1995, 220) reminds his readers:
"Even with the greatest of care and the most serious diligence, no one should dream that it would be possible to reach the goal smoothly and without obstacles. With every horse you take in training, if it appears to be the most evidently suitable riding horse, be prepared for disappointments, embarrassments, and fights; then you might possibly not lose your good humor; and that is really the most important in all of your work."[/QUOTE]

Thank you for posting this quote; it is wonderful and helped me feel much better after my ride this evening - two steps backwards!! What in the world?! :lol: AND :(

This kind of wisdom and encouragement is why I'm thankful for the COTH board.

Edited to add: How do I respond in a way that puts the cool blue box around the quote? I really need to get some skills!!

mbm
Sep. 26, 2009, 09:19 PM
TFP: i think that the different "Schools" might be what you are looking for? different cultures developing horses in different manners yet they arrive at similar end place..... also, i think that the society had to be at a certain place in its evolution to be able to have a leisure class that had the time and wealth to devote to developing a theory of riding.

and - horses are horses so there can only be so many ways to develop them to the pinnacle of perfection. ;)

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"
Sep. 26, 2009, 09:28 PM
How do I respond in a way that puts the cool blue box around the quote? I really need to get some skills!!


Simple - just click on the "quote" icon on the bottom right of that post.

Myth: if DGRH can do it, so can you!

Wait. That's actually a truism, Whoops.

Fixerupper
Sep. 26, 2009, 09:31 PM
Firstly a lot of what you need to know is not politically correct so never gets in a book at all.....
That is a bit like giving someone directions without knowing where their starting point is.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

You are here!

slight
Sep. 26, 2009, 09:38 PM
Simple - just click on the "quoteso" icon on the bottom right of that post.

Myth: if DGRH can do it, so can you!

Wait. That's actually a truism, Whoops.

Good grief!

Edited to add: Thank you - it's embarrassing being me sometimes...

twofatponies
Sep. 26, 2009, 09:39 PM
TFP: i think that the different "Schools" might be what you are looking for? different cultures developing horses in different manners yet they arrive at similar end place..... also, i think that the society had to be at a certain place in its evolution to be able to have a leisure class that had the time and wealth to devote to developing a theory of riding.

and - horses are horses so there can only be so many ways to develop them to the pinnacle of perfection. ;)

re: leisure class, etc - of course. I'm curious to know the details of the training methods perfected by the horsemen of some ancient Chinese empire... or the Ottoman empire, etc. Perhaps they had some interesting schools of riding that are either lost to time or just not familiar to westerners... Or maybe not.

cashin_IN
Sep. 26, 2009, 09:52 PM
It is a myth that reading every word every ODG ever wrote will teach you enough to do dressage.

I could expand that to reading every word that has ever been written about riding will teach you how to ride well. Its a bit like swimming. You can read about swimming for your whole life but until you jump in the pool and get wet you still can't swim.

It is also a myth that any book can tell you the whole story of riding. Firstly a lot of what you need to know is not politically correct so never gets in a book at all. Secondly how do you describe a feeling so accurately and preciscely that every person with all their different experiences and understandings will know exactly what you meant? It simply isn't possible. That is a bit like giving someone directions without knowing where their starting point is.


I agree! i have a hard time reading and UNDERSTANDING what i read in books about riding. riding is done on feel and emotion. you can read about dressage all day, but until you get sweaty, it's all theory. i have a library full of books i rarely open, unless there's a specific problem i need to "fix"

Thomas_1
Sep. 27, 2009, 02:54 AM
The younger folks here might not be familiar with Christopher Bartle. Years ago he had the most incredible Thoroughbred he showed internationally, Wily Trout. People who want to event and jump and do dressage would probably find a lot to like in Bartle's book.

You don't do Chris (or younger folks!) justice at all. You make him sound like some old "has been" that had one decent horse!

Chris was a member of the British Dressage Team right through the 1980's and was awarded the British Equestrian Federation's medal of honour. He was consistently a medal winner at a variety of international level competition at purist dressage throughout that decade.

In addition to that he went on through the 1990's and 2000's to compete and win at 3 and 4 star 3DE's and was on the British winning 3DE European Championship team and reserve for the British Olympic 3DE team twice and including most recently just in 2000. Word Perfect is the horse that most people remember though he's had a lot of memorable ones.

He's been dressage trainer to the British Olympic 3DE team and is currently coach to the German Team who incidentally got the gold medal at the last Olympics just in 2008.

Thylacine
Sep. 27, 2009, 05:28 AM
and one of the BIGGEST Myths of all time:


that Dressage riders/trainers/lovers will like eachother and get on just because they share an interest. or be able to admit that just maybe perhaps _they_ read and comprehended a post completely differently to the authors intentions :D

:lol::lol::lol::lol: (*waves* to mbm)

Thylacine
Sep. 27, 2009, 05:48 AM
bartle's book sounds interesting.

Myth:

You can make a fortune by buying OTTBs with leg problems and flipping them as dressage horses!


That's a myth?!


better tell that to lots of people i know - also tell them that their (now) useless OTTBs bought for fancy prices from different "named" dealers are just a figment of their imagination. ;)

there's many a fancy live-in 7horse truck rig driving the highways that were bought using that Myth :yes:

slc2
Sep. 27, 2009, 06:09 AM
More posts digging for something to attack.:lol: It's getting comical.

I got three pm's asking me who he is the day I wrote that. There ARE people who have no idea who he is. Which is unfortunate, but the fact is, not everyone knows all the major trainers/competitors from the eighties and nineties. Today the web helps people connect, but it doesn't cover history of the competitions as well as it does current events. Even now, many dressage results are on subscription only sites - not everyone knows everything.

Thomas_1
Sep. 27, 2009, 02:41 PM
More posts digging for something to attack.:lol: It's getting comical.

I got three pm's asking me who he is the day I wrote that. There ARE people who have no idea who he is. Which is unfortunate, but the fact is, not everyone knows all the major trainers/competitors from the eighties and nineties. Today the web helps people connect, but it doesn't cover history of the competitions as well as it does current events. Even now, many dressage results are on subscription only sites - not everyone knows everything.

Try thinking more about your own passive/aggressive behaviour and your gross inaccuracies and errors which others merely correct rather than others seeking to irrationally single you out. That's a myth!

You don't want challenging? Then don't post inaccuracies or things with gaping holes in them!

But get on I don't believe it! You had 3 PM's asking you who Chris Bartle is? Odd that there's so many people who needed your personal assistance with that and Google!

Odd that they should write to you when all you did was make ultra critical mention off a book and inaccurate mention of his experience.

However try pedalling backwards a little further!

Chris is not a trainer and competitor from the 80's and 90's!!!! For sure you don't need to be an historian to go figure what he's done and is currently doing.

How comes you have become such an expert on the myth of the history of Chris???

As I said in my earlier posting:

He went on right through the 2000's to compete and win at 3 and 4 star 3DE's and was on the British winning 3DE European Championship team and reserve for the British Olympic 3DE team twice and including most recently just in 2000. Word Perfect is the horse that most people remember though he's had a lot of memorable ones.

He's been dressage trainer to the British Olympic 3DE team through the 2000's and is currently coach to the German Team who incidentally got the gold medal at the last Olympics just in 2008.

Nojacketrequired
Sep. 27, 2009, 02:52 PM
It's a myth that only horses trained to PSG can be "schoolmasters".

Bunch of hogwash actually.

NJR

Thomas_1
Sep. 27, 2009, 02:54 PM
^ Why don't you just say what you mean ;)

mbm
Sep. 27, 2009, 05:31 PM
all you did was make ultra critical mention off a book

as i read SLCs post she gave high praise of the book and recommended it....

in fact her posting his name probably exposed him to several folks who were unfamiliar with him and/or his book... myself included. i knew the name (i have one of his vids) , but didnt know about his book - which due to the mention by SLC I looked up and now will be buying.

ETA: on re-reading this thread i see there are a few posts mentioning that the poster is going to look into the book - directly becuase of SLCs mention - ;)

slc2
Sep. 27, 2009, 05:38 PM
Thomas just likes to do personal attacks. Now with things like 'passive aggressive'. :lol:

Chris was at the top of the dressage world during the time I mentioned, and with a Thoroughbred, and if I recall right, the horse was a former eventer or point-to-pointer.

He has not been seen at that level for quite some time. He certainly has continued to compete, I do understand that, but not at the same level.

And Thomas, you know quite well, that I gave the book nothing but the highest praise.

I got a PM a few weeks ago, that said, 'I do so love from time to time, seeing Thomas1 set back on his gin soaked heels'.

What a terribly naughty thing to say.

egontoast
Sep. 27, 2009, 05:51 PM
I got a PM a few weeks ago, that said, 'I do so love from time to time, seeing Thomas1 set back on his gin soaked heels'.

What a terribly naughty thing to say.

Yes we do so love hearing about all the fabulous imaginary congratulatory PMs people claim to have received which of course supports everything they have posted.:lol::lol:

if someone loves you so much, slc, they ought to be willing to support you on the board maybe?:winkgrin:

JackSprats Mom
Sep. 27, 2009, 06:05 PM
Biggest myth I see repeated is that you can train a horse in dressage in total harmony every step of the way. I don't know where this myth has come from, it's not even classical! It seems to be a modern phenomenon and is, I think, responsible for more unhappy riders and horses than anything else.

Gustav Steinbrecht (Das Gymnasium des Pferdes, 1935, English translation, Xenophon Press, 1995, 220) reminds his readers:
"Even with the greatest of care and the most serious diligence, no one should dream that it would be possible to reach the goal smoothly and without obstacles. With every horse you take in training, if it appears to be the most evidently suitable riding horse, be prepared for disappointments, embarrassments, and fights; then you might possibly not lose your good humor; and that is really the most important in all of your work."


AMEN!

While I secretly (think I) knew this all along there is such a facade in dessage that it should all be so beautiful and never a bad moment that its hard not to buy into that.

My lightbulb moment was a few months ago readin RD's article in DT which basically said if you don't try you'll never get and so what if it goes wrong we're not curing cancer!

Ohh wanted to add that it was watching Chris Bartle and Wily Trout that made me want to start dressage :)

stolensilver
Sep. 27, 2009, 06:15 PM
:)

goeslikestink
Sep. 27, 2009, 06:19 PM
Thomas just likes to do personal attacks. Now with things like 'passive aggressive'. :lol:

Chris was at the top of the dressage world during the time I mentioned, and with a Thoroughbred, and if I recall right, the horse was a former eventer or point-to-pointer.

He has not been seen at that level for quite some time. He certainly has continued to compete, I do understand that, but not at the same level.

And Thomas, you know quite well, that I gave the book nothing but the highest praise.

I got a PM a few weeks ago, that said, 'I do so love from time to time, seeing Thomas1 set back on his gin soaked heels'.

What a terribly naughty thing to say.

yes you are naughty as you fail to appreicate that both are proven instructors and trianers
and both are proven compeditors of international status
and both have quilfications to which the compeditor is able to pass an examination level of there chosen disipline and or mixed events

what do you have in comparison

hitchinmygetalong
Sep. 28, 2009, 01:45 PM
I got a PM a few weeks ago, that said, 'I do so love from time to time, seeing Thomas1 set back on his gin soaked heels'.

What a terribly naughty thing to say.

slc2, I would think that you would know what bad form it is to share PM info on an open forum.

I would also think that you would have learned how to "ignore" by now. Instead you go to lengths to point out anything that you deem a "personal attack".

That said, I have to say that having watched your posting style for years, I tend to believe that there was no PM, and that you are just using a very underhanded method of launching your very own "personal attack".

Poor form all around. :no:

Classicgal
Sep. 28, 2009, 02:26 PM
I was a working student for HLM Van Schaik at the time he was writing that book. I got to listen to all kinds of discussions about it and even typed up pages from his written drafts. Not bragging, just an amazing time in my life and he will always be a major influence on me! As two people noted it is "Misconceptions and Simple Truths in Dressage" by Dr. Henri L.M. van Schaik. There was just a great article about him in the August Equine Journal if anyone is interested.

Sonesta
Sep. 28, 2009, 06:51 PM
Nevermind. It was not worthy of comment.