Wandering farm dog... >_<

[Dressage (Pea)Nut]

We have a 5 month old LabXSheperd puppy that likes to wander. He has an enclosed dog run with a doghouse when we aren't around, and has our 5 acre property to run around on when we're doing stuff around the farm. However, even when we're in the yard, he likes to wander, mostly next door (he comes back if the neighbours don't bring him back first) or across the street (where he teases the dogs that live there). I am afraid that he's going to get lost or hit by a car! I hate leaving him tied up or closed in his run all the time, but having him on a leash all the time isn't really practical. Granted, he hasn't had any formal obedience training, but would this help? Any other suggestions?

[LuvMyTB]

OMG. I hate these threads.

If you don't want him to get hit by a car--which WILL happen eventually--you need to contain him until he knows the boundaries of the farm. At 5 months old he is too young to know where he can and can't go.

Tether him, tie him, fence him in, put him in a "pen"--do something to keep him safe.

And yes, obedience training will help. :rolleyes:

[Simkie]

OMG. I hate these threads.

If you don't want him to get hit by a car--which WILL happen eventually--you need to contain him until he knows the boundaries of the farm. At 5 months old he is too young to know where he can and can't go.

Tether him, tie him, fence him in, put him in a "pen"--do something to keep him safe.

And yes, obedience training will help. :rolleyes:

Clap clap clap!

OP, an invisible fence might work as well. You do have to train the dog on it, though. You cannot just set it up and let them out.

[dmalbone]

OMG. I hate these threads.

If you don't want him to get hit by a car--which WILL happen eventually--you need to contain him until he knows the boundaries of the farm. At 5 months old he is too young to know where he can and can't go.

Tether him, tie him, fence him in, put him in a "pen"--do something to keep him safe.

And yes, obedience training will help. :rolleyes:Ditto, ditto, ditto. I don't get the reasoning by some people, but whatever. I'm the weirdo who would never let a full-grown dog loose on a farm that didn't have dog-safe fencing anyway so what do I know...

As for invisible fences, they are a false sense of security. If this is just another thing you want to add while you're around and they'd just be loose anyway then go for it. They aren't safe enough to use as a sole means of containing a dog safely. I know NUMEROUS cases of dogs just running right through them then not wanting to come back in, dogs stolen from them... people can walk right over, and dogs being viciously mauled from other dogs or animals because the dog had no real protection from them.

[jherold]

I hate these threads too. You put him on a bloody lunge line and fill your pockets with cookies. Call, tug, give treat. Repeat. Make yourself more attractive than wandering around. Of course that will mean you actually have to pay attention to the dog instead of just letting him wander off to be the neighborhood nuisance. Neutering will help too.

[ChocoMare]

Find the David Dikeman Command Performance Dog Training (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHd4bmTMXM4&feature=related)Tapes and get 'em. Easy to follow, easy to do and works. My English Lab stops dead at the property line because of training.

[kellidahorsegirl]

Sounds like you're in a setting where you NEED to keep the dog contained (5 acres is TINY). So frankly....maybe a dog was a bad choice.

Nuetering can help....TRAINING most definitely helps. Keep him contained all the time so he learns THAT is his home.

Otherwise, I'd just repeat whats already been said.

[ChocoMare]

A taste:

Attention Traininge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Sgk7d_ABw&feature=related)

Puppy Lead Training (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSpjmeCUeOc&feature=related)

[dmalbone]

Wait... he isn't neutered? Please for the love of god tell me he's neutered. How big is this run that he's in? What the heck happened to having a nice fenced in back yard for a dog!?!!? DH and I would love a dog. We live on 4.5 acres off a busy road and do not have the time, urge, or money to fence in our backyard therefore we will not be getting a dog. Just goes hand in hand to me...

[kellidahorsegirl]

for the record...I don't know if he is or isn't neutured....I just said it based on his age. The op does NOT say either way.

But I know that MY dogs ran away a few times (we're on 30 acres surrounded by sections of corn and wheat)....so I got one neutured and they haven't left sense.

[JSwan]

Another reason to keep them at home is that they're less likely to start chasing livestock.

What you don't want to find out is that Fido chased someone's 50K dressage horse into a fence and the horse is maimed or dead. Or that he killed someone's chickens. Goat. Sheep. Calf. In the US - the owner of such a dog is responsible for all vet bills, value of the animal, can shoot the dog, and in some states can demand the dog be euthanized.

Fence the perimeter of your land and work on recall with your puppy.

I know how tough it can be; I've got a beagle.

Good luck.

[JWB]

We have four dogs. They are never unsupervised. They are in their run or in their crate, or in the house WITH US (never alone) or out working where all of our attention is focused on the dog.

My dog training friends understand this. My horse training friends are mostly appalled...

You keep your dog in a crate all day? Yes, and I keep my horse in a stall or a paddock. My horse gets daily exercise as does my dog. The dogs are either doing disc work (frisbee) or agility or flyball training, or basic conditioning such as jogging with us or being run from a bike....

They are loose in the house in the morning and evening when we are there with them but I would not expect the dogs to understand a human concept like property lines any more than I would expect the horses too. We have trained them to have great recalls so they are allowed outside when we are also out but we DO NOT take our attention of the dogs or the hound will be hunting, the terrier will be chasing rabbits, the retriever will be off swimming in the neighbor's lake and the border collie will be barking at someone or something.....

If your dog crosses the road, it's only a matter of time until something hits it, animal control picks it up, it gets attacked by another animal, get shot at..... There are way too many dangerous things out there and you are responsible for the puppy's safety.

[Trevelyan96]

I can sympathize with the OP. My newest acquisition will just jump over the fence if he sees or hears something interesting while we're playing with him in the yard, and he off!

Luckily, we really don't have to worry too much about him getting hit by a car, and he's well identified, including a micro-chip, but people do tend to freak nowadays when they see a loose dog. DH was chasing after him one day and while he was retreiving the dog from the neighbor, we got a call from Home Again! At least I know they're doing their job!

For the OP, I'd start with an electric collar and obedience training. Mine is well trained, but he's all terrier, so has very selective hearing. :(

[Boomer]

IMHO, your neighbors having to bring your puppy back - tells me you're not being a good neighbor. They obviously don't want him at their place.

And if he's "teasing" someone else's dog... he's becoming a nuisance.

Too keep the puppy safe? Fencing, obedience training, and/or leash will do nicely.

Not to mention keeping you safe from liability - what if he bites someone?

[dmalbone]

IMHO, your neighbors having to bring your puppy back - tells me you're not being a good neighbor. They obviously don't want him at their place.

And if he's "teasing" someone else's dog... he's becoming a nuisance.

Too keep the puppy safe? Fencing, obedience training, and/or leash will do nicely.

Not to mention keeping you safe from liability - what if he bites someone?

Ditto again... you saying he's "teasing" the neighbors dog probably involves them inside cursing and mumbling about the "annoying dog that keeps getting loose next door". I sure as heck would be PISSED if a loose dog kept bothering mine. And why do the neighbors even have time to bring him back? You should be on his tail over there the minute he disappears, not just waiting to see if he comes back. I'm sorry... I'm a dog lover but I would have called animal control on you a ways back. Your neighbors are being very kind to you.

[JWB]

Not to mention poop.... Our neighbors assume that because we have four dogs, we don't mind if their dog comes into our yard and poops there.
Our four dogs ONLY potty in their designated area (which we keep a scoop and bucket on hand to clean up) and if they go in the yard, we IMMEDIATELY pick it up.
Trust me - they may be animal lovers but your puppy is probably not welcome there if they're bringing him back to you.

Another neighbor's cat just died recently because they let him wander and a place across the street had just sprayed with pesticide.... Poor kitty got poisoned.-+

[Petstorejunkie]

Stick him on one of those tie line thingys where you attach it 8ft above the ground like a zip line ad then attach a 10ft lead to the pulley. That would give him a decent amount of room to roam.
your neighbors are being quite nice for bringing him back to you instead of shooting him. i've had trouble with stray neighbor dogs here and the animal control office now knows my voice. Just remember if it comes down to your dog or someones horse/livestock, your dog is going to lose.

[LostFarmer]

I have a radio collar that I set a range on. Works great to keep the dog home. I have a real training collar that I put on her if we are out and about. I love being able to "smack" her immediately in the act of doing some delinquent act. I watched her sneak up on a chicken ready to take it out as she went to pounce I made her ears smoke. She now runs to me when she sees a chicken. :lol::lol:

[BLBGP]

I can sympathize with the OP. My newest acquisition will just jump over the fence if he sees or hears something interesting while we're playing with him in the yard, and he off!



These can help with fence climbers (assuming your fence isn't just a 3' easy to jump type fence): http://www.coyoteroller.com/coyote_roller

OP, I know this isn't the response you were looking for, but I really hope you take it to heart. If not, please rehome the puppy now while he's still young and cute. So many people keep them untrained and unsupervised through the cute phase and then dump them when they are roudy, untrained 10-12 months old, when they are far less desirable to adopters.

[spotnnotfarm]

Please figure out something with your dog. I had to learn the hard way. My dog roamed the 5 acres we have whenever we were outside. I thought I was keeping an eye on him but one morning he went in the woods and ended up on the road chasing a squirrel. He was hit by a car. Thankfully he was not killed but did break his pelvis http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=195690&highlight=broken+pelvis. Charlie is ok now but he was in alot of pain for awhile and it cost me a ton of money (he is now my $4,000 dog!) and time rehabbing him. He does not go off leash anymore and neither will anyother dog I own. I don't care how well trained they are instinct and accidents happen.

[Casey09]

An electric fence might help. They do take a lot of TRAINING, and most people I know who use them successfully use them only when they are outside with the dog. Frankly, I would never trust one. My dogs are either on a leash, indoors, or in a fence or run.
I really think that if you don't want this puppy to be killed by a car, or shot, or lost, you need to completely change the way that you are caring for him. Make sure you have a crate in the house. Considering purchasing a dog run - you can use that to contain him so that he can be outside when you are too involved otherwise to hold a leash. Start walking/running him on a leash - and take him to obedience classes. Don't train him so that you can leave him to roam your 5 acres - train him to bond with him.

[RU2U]

Guys before you roast this person to death...I'll stick my two cents worth in. Ya they have to do better by this "road kill/dog"

Some dogs just have to tramp. I had a shelti-shep cross. When we first got her, unfortunately before we got her fixed she was visited in her back yard (on her chain) by several dogs. She became a tramp. She had 8 puppys got fixed and went chasing the men folk for 9 more years. Terrible, needs training etc...

This dog was also being shown and trained by myself with our local 4-h club for 6 of those years. She was was being shown in open obediance classes inc. off leash work where she won in our county and particiapated at state level. Not bad for a mutt.

Periodically when my back was turned she would slink down the driveway. We got to the point that the only time she was allowed out was on leash. She was good, quite the professional, but she looked for that split second that your attention was not immediately on her and poof gone.

Tiphany died across the street from a barn with chickens (that were caged!) The property owners told me that she never bothered them, just liked to sit and watch them -hoping they too might escape. They didn't see it as a problem and never thought to give me a call. We found her on the side of the road.

Sometimes its instincts, I don't condone the behaviour, but I understand it. We now have 4 dogs and none are kept on a chain, they have run of the farm and while two like to visit the neighbors (because they give them cookies!), for the most part everyone knows their limits and stays in the yard. Some dogs just have a higher instinct of I've got to explore the world.

[dmalbone]

Guys before you roast this person to death...I'll stick my two cents worth in. Ya they have to do better by this "road kill/dog"

Some dogs just have to tramp. I had a shelti-shep cross. When we first got her, unfortunately before we got her fixed she was visited in her back yard (on her chain) by several dogs. She became a tramp. She had 8 puppys got fixed and went chasing the men folk for 9 more years. Terrible, needs training etc...

This dog was also being shown and trained by myself with our local 4-h club for 6 of those years. She was was being shown in open obediance classes inc. off leash work where she won in our county and particiapated at state level. Not bad for a mutt.

Periodically when my back was turned she would slink down the driveway. We got to the point that the only time she was allowed out was on leash. She was good, quite the professional, but she looked for that split second that your attention was not immediately on her and poof gone.

Tiphany died across the street from a barn with chickens (that were caged!) The property owners told me that she never bothered them, just liked to sit and watch them -hoping they too might escape. They didn't see it as a problem and never thought to give me a call. We found her on the side of the road.

Sometimes its instincts, I don't condone the behaviour, but I understand it. We now have 4 dogs and none are kept on a chain, they have run of the farm and while two like to visit the neighbors (because they give them cookies!), for the most part everyone knows their limits and stays in the yard. Some dogs just have a higher instinct of I've got to explore the world.

Some dogs do not "just have to tramp". That's when its up to us to keep them in. Instinct my butt. Of course animals have certain instincts, but those instincts shouldn't be used to justify our behavior. I'm glad your situation works out for you, but your situation is really no better than hers. That's great that your neighbors give them cookies, but what about when one of your dog accidentally hurts them or a kid there? And "we found her on the side of the road"? That's not worth it for me. That's no dignified way to go there. Quite sad really.

[MrWinston]

Fencing our property is a major priority for us. Our dogs are a major priority to us. Remember, even with the property fenced dogs can learn to climb over or dig under if they are unsupervised and bored. There is no substitute for training and patterning the dog. Right now the OP's puppy is being patterned to look for entertainment outside of the property line, not a good thing.

A bonus you get by fencing and gating your property is that a horse is unlikely to get loose on the road and people are less likely to invade your privacy. In the area we live in people are afraid to enter gated and fenced property for fear of being taken for a thief.

[Nancy!]

Honestly, I'm glad I'm not your neighbour. Do your horses stay home without fencing and training? You need to contain your dog until he is old enough to know to stay on your property. If you can't attend to him while you are outside he needs to be tied up or put in the kennel.

Safety first. Neuter him now and yes, get obedience training. It will make a difference especially in recall. If you are too busy to be watching him, he needs to be restrained in some manner.

Good luck.

[Dressage (Pea)Nut]

Wow, thanks so much for the brutal attack. I posted on here looking for some advice; I wasn't looking for some holier-than-thou preaching at me. FYI I am aware that my dog needs to be kept contained and under control - that's why I was seeking suggestions!!! Pardon me for thinking that it's cruel to keep him fully enclosed 24 hours a day if I can't have him on a leash. I have horses to work and barn chores to do and he can't keep getting under foot. We have had dogs for my whole life - our last dog never wandered more than 10 feet from you. This new one does, so I don't know what to do about it. I resent people saying, "if you can't control your dog you shouldn't have one" - SCREW YOU!! That's the last time I post anything like this again. Thanks for nothing.

[Simkie]

Wow, thanks so much for the brutal attack. I posted on here looking for some advice; I wasn't looking for some holier-than-thou preaching at me. FYI I am aware that my dog needs to be kept contained and under control - that's why I was seeking suggestions!!! Pardon me for thinking that it's cruel to keep him fully enclosed 24 hours a day if I can't have him on a leash. I have horses to work and barn chores to do and he can't keep getting under foot. We have had dogs for my whole life - our last dog never wandered more than 10 feet from you. This new one does, so I don't know what to do about it. I resent people saying, "if you can't control your dog you shouldn't have one" - SCREW YOU!! That's the last time I post anything like this again. Thanks for nothing.

Yes, it's obviously MUCH more humane to let him be hit be a car or shot for harassing livestock.

You've gotten LOADS of suggestions on how to contain and train your dog. Sorry to say, you have to train the thing. You have to confine the thing. And if you don't do YOUR JOB as a pet owner, then don't be surprised if your dog winds up dead in a very unpleasant manner.

Man up and take responsibility. No one is going to do it for you :rolleyes:

[dmalbone]

Wow, thanks so much for the brutal attack. I posted on here looking for some advice; I wasn't looking for some holier-than-thou preaching at me. FYI I am aware that my dog needs to be kept contained and under control - that's why I was seeking suggestions!!! Pardon me for thinking that it's cruel to keep him fully enclosed 24 hours a day if I can't have him on a leash. I have horses to work and barn chores to do and he can't keep getting under foot. We have had dogs for my whole life - our last dog never wandered more than 10 feet from you. This new one does, so I don't know what to do about it. I resent people saying, "if you can't control your dog you shouldn't have one" - SCREW YOU!! That's the last time I post anything like this again. Thanks for nothing.So you asked for advice and now are crossing your arms, pouting, and stomping your feet because you don't like the advice given? That really makes sense. Nobody said anything off-base to you. YOU pointed out that there's a risk of him getting hit. YOU pointed out that you can't stop him from wandering. So when everyone else encourages you to do something about it YOU attack US? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Your dogs safety is more important to the posters here than your feelings because he does not know any better and it's your responsibility. Your dog cannot stop himself from running into the road but you can. Ditto the "man up". You asked for advice. You got advice that hurt your feelings because it was brutally honest. That's life. Now do something about it for the safety of your dog. What did you want to hear, seriously? "Oh, it'll be okay... he'll use his magical dog powers to stay out of the road because he knows better as an untrained puppy".

[Casey09]

I am sorry if it came off as an attack or preaching. I don't think that it was meant to be an attack.

Pardon me for thinking that it's cruel to keep him fully enclosed 24 hours a day if I can't have him on a leash.

I don't think you should have him enclosed 24 hours a day, but I do think that you should reconsider what cruelty is. I have had a dog hit by a car (who died a few minutes later). He died in a lot of pain. It was an accident (he bolted through a door), but it caused him to die a very painful death.
If you built a pen and put your puppy in there permanently, that would be cruel! However, if you got a run and put him in there while you were riding or doing chores, I don't think it would be. He would just be safer! You may not be able to have him on a leash all of the time, but can you spare a little time to walk him on a leash, and then put him in a run or crate with a stuffed Kong?
I think you just need to get a schedule going (i.e. you take him on a little walk, give him his treat and confine him, then take him on another little walk).

We have had dogs for my whole life - our last dog never wandered more than 10 feet from you. This new one does, so I don't know what to do about it.

Your dog is still very young. Dogs are also not all the same. Labs can be wanderers as they are hunting dogs. You may not be able to make him into a dog that stays right with you or stays on your property without you being right there. You may have to change the way that you do dogs to make it work with this one.

Good luck. I do still urge you to look for something to do with this young puppy - try finding an agility class or an obedience class.

[JSwan]

Huh? I wasn't preaching or being holier than thou and I don't think anyone else was either.

You obviously recognize the need to keep the dog safe. I wanted you to think about something besides keeping the dog away from the road.

I've got hounds. If you think it's difficult trying to keep a puppy home, try outmaneuvering a scent hound. Obedience and recall are absolutely crucial - but nothing will overcome the desire to roam and that's why restraints, runs, fencing or other measures may be required.

Another option is to ask your question in the hunting forum. There are houndsmen on that forum who can be very helpful answering your questions.

I will never understand why people post asking for advice and then argue, quibble or become indignant when they receive it.

The rest of us manage to run our operations without our dogs running off - you can too.

[ChocoMare]

Gee, me neither.....or so I thought :confused:

I offered proven, easy to follow training assistance via David Dikeman. That's it.

[RU2U]

Just so you know, we fenced in our yard - dog climbed OVER it. We bought and installed electric shock collar - dog jumped through it, then was afraid to get back in. In the 10 years we had her we tried everything we could. You don't understand if you don't see your dog flying like a bullet down your driveway and you screaming her name after her. Don't you think after over 30 years bottle feeding babies, training 3 dogs for obediance trials, and an avid animal lover that I would not have tried everything in the book! Sometimes dogs can slip their collars, even when you tighten it enough to be pushed into the skin. These dogs can be professionals its not just your typical dog running away, its a skilled shoot out the back door before you get them hooked first thing in the morning or jump on the screen door until the door breaks.

Oh and by the way we also have a pony that was smart enough to break the electric fence between clicks. Not to worry we have solid fencing 5 ft high now, but it just shows if their is a will then their is away. Sometimes well, you just have to keep trying things to outsmart them. In this dogs case that is what you need to do and until the owner becomes smarter then the dog well things won't change.

Maybe they were looking for ideas on HOW to outsmart the dog and not just a lecture of WHY they need to outsmart the dog.

[Rubyfree]

You state that you have a young dog who is not trained, can't have him leashed, and don't want to confine him- but he runs off. What advice did you expect to receive other than train your dog and leash him or keep him confined?
An old neighbor of mine had a dog that they thought it was cruel to confine, wasn't trained, and liked to wander over to our place to 'tease' my dog. The day after he came over and goosed her while she was getting into my car, startling her into going after him, I took him to the shelter. I'd been running interference trying to keep their dog from injury for too long. Every time I'd dragged him back home, they'd say "Oh, sorry! You know, he just likes to roam! We can't keep him tied up all the time!"
Train your dog. Until your dog is trained, keep him confined.

[Rubyfree]

Just so you know, we fenced in our yard - dog climbed OVER it. We bought and installed electric shock collar - dog jumped through it, then was afraid to get back in. In the 10 years we had her we tried everything we could. You don't understand if you don't see your dog flying like a bullet down your driveway and you screaming her name after her.

Maybe they were looking for ideas on HOW to outsmart the dog and not just a lecture of WHY they need to outsmart the dog.


I do understand, but this is not a case of a dog willfully seeking to wander despite best efforts. The OP's case is a dog wandering because no reasonable effort to stop him has been made. There is no need to discuss outsmarting him yet.

[RU2U]

That's because he already won that one! LOL

[MrWinston]

I would have to question why there was a "will." In 50 years of dog ownership I have never had a dog that had that kind of will to leave home. What breed was this dog?

For the OP. I really don't get it, all of that fury over being told basic facts about responsible dog ownership? You are expecting that because one dog didn't wander that another will be the same? I think you have to put in the time and effort to bond with the dog, training time and responsible containment as well. Right now you are allowing your dog to self reward by getting entertainment outside of your property line. Good luck to your dog, he/she is going to need it. What advice did you expect to hear?

[RU2U]

I would have to question why there was a "will." In 50 years of dog ownership I have never had a dog that had that kind of will to leave home. What breed was this dog?

A shelti/shep that came from a "broken home" Her owners gave her to a vet who was instructed to put to sleep a 6 mon. old puppy because noone wanted her. She was a shy scared, if you raised your voice she would cower kinda dog. Perfect for a 13 yr old kid that also came from a broken home. She kinda had a screw loose over the years. Very attached, very possesive of me. Not aggressive in the least. Had a strong sense of hit the road and come home in a hour or 3 days. Just a traveler. An impossible for strangers to catch kinda dog.

You here of this in alot of cattle dogs, collie type of dogs ( a def. shelty kinda run scared kinda just got to go kind of thing) , just something snaps in their heads. Its a gotta get to a destination kind of thing, gotta trot and hit the road, where a lab is just gotta find the next new smell kinda thing, and a terrier is dog that has to find the next thing that moves.

Weird little dog, but the problem is not unheard of and is very difficult to correct. Stumped my trainers. Recently our humane officers went out on a call for a border playing can't catch me on over 600 acres. That was alot of fun and yep she left again within a month. You just could not get within 300 feet of her. Finally trapped her with a bowl of water.

[MrWinston]

I understand a shy rehomed dog that was never socialized and why the dog might be flighty and want to run. Can you explain how that dog was tied out when she was in heat and why you think that the subsequent pregnancy caused her to "be a tramp?" I think that neglect from the time she was born caused her to be unable to bond with her humans. Why would anyone tie out a bitch in heat? Why would anyone tie out a dog at all? EVER? I can't express how much I hate a dog being tied out.

[Jaegermonster]

i have 11 dogs on 5 acres and none of them wander. It's called a fence.
My entire property is fenced with 2x4 no climb with top rail and pipe gates with the mesh.
And secured to that is an invisible fence to keep them from running out the gate.
Took a little effort and little money, but if you're a responsible pet owner you don't mind expending either of those things.
Problem solved.

[MrWinston]

I fenced 19 acres with no climb for our perimeter. The horse fencing is inside of that. Three Dobes, never outside without supervision, walks around the perimeter once or twice a day. Gate closed at all times even though it's about ten acres away from the house. I've had dogs jump or dig in but never had one of my dogs get out or even think of trying to get out. My dogs get training and attention and deliberate exercise, they are happy to lounge around because they are satisfied with their lives. They are high drive agility dogs. If you take the trouble to exercise the dogs it isn't cruel to confine them for their safety. It helps if they are appropriately house trained and can be trusted to be left at large in the house once they get over the puppy stage. But of course, that takes WORK! Why do people train horses and give them exercise and then expect their dog to not need the same thing?

[MistyBlue]

OP, dogs are interactive pets.
They require being taught their manners and desired attributes such as not wandering, coming when called, etc.
A very few are easy and almost self training...but most aren't. When you get a normal acting dog that acts normal in ways you do not want it to act, you need to start it's training and stick with it all the time until it becomes rote to the dog.

[MrWinston]

Can I just add that dogs actually LOVE learning what is expected of them and how to please their humans? IF they are taught with positive reinforcement as if it's a game. Try the two squeeky tennis ball game some time and see what a recall you can get with it.

[MrWinston]

We have a Sherriff's Deputy for a neighbor on five acres. He had an intact male hound who jumped fences and haunted our property before my bitch was spayed. I had to leash walk her for about 6 weeks and could not take her out after dark or before sunrise. He had that "what can I do about it" attitude. The dog roamed the neighborhood and one day "Pork Chop" didn't come home and never came home. The neighbor believes that the cow farmer down the road finally had enough of the dog and shot him. I have no doubt that if my three Dobes were to run at large, they would be quickly DEAD. I guess it just depends on how much you care about your dogs.

[vacation1]

Just in case the OP comes back...

1) At 5 months, he's a baby. Babies do not have a great sense of territory or home. If you contain him reliably in his space (ie, those parts of your property you want him in) he will very likely develop this in the next few years. It's a very slow, long-term way of developing a good habit in your dog. At the moment, he's doing this himself, but the habits he's developing - running across streets, wandering without direction - are bad habits.

2) Obedience training will not enable you to leave him offleash unsupervised. It will be good for him as it will mean he'll learn lessons that will, eventually, allow him supervised time offleash.

3) In the meantime, you can exercise him loose in several ways which are safe. My favorite is to tie a very long leash or rope to the collar and then let go. 30' nylon training leads and 50' nylon ropes called check cords are available at Petsmart or Petco or at any number of websites, particularly those catering to hunters, for under $20. These saved my sanity when I adopted a baby Border Collie mix and discovered she could not only run faster than the Roadrunner (beep, beep), she actually had the cunning to tuck her tail under her as she went so there was nothing to grab as she blew by me. When she was trailing 30-50' of baggage, I could regain control easily. She got to run full tilt without flirting with death.

4) My other suggestion is a tie-out for when you'd like to have him around as you work outside, away from his pen, but are occupied with chores and can't really keep an eye on him constantly. A tie-out will keep him from slipping away, and allow the two of you to hang out nicely. And he'll get used to being around you calmly, without having constant attention, a good thing for any dog to learn.

The bad news is that there is no safe way to let a baby dog roam loose on any property unsupervised (even if you lived on a remote ranch, you'd be risking the puppy getting eaten by something). If you want to give the dog real exercise, you have to be there watching, and give yourself a way to regain physical control instantly.

Sites for the leads/cords:

Petco
http://www.petco.com/product/108902/Remington-Poly-Check-Cord-Training-Dog-Leash-in-Yellow.aspx?cm_mmc=CSEMGooglebase-_-Dog-_-Remington-_-839302&mr:trackingCode=FD09EC15-8381-DE11-B7F3-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA

Google products search
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=dog%22check+cord%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=R7i-SobJGIab8Abtoc21AQ&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=image&resnum=4

[MrWinston]

This is the only form of tie out that I find acceptable for a dog. I also agree that this dog is developing very bad habits and is unlikely to bond with his/her humans.

[RU2U]

Whether you approve of a dog tied out on a lead to do her business and brought back in while you make a pot of coffee is irrelevant. It does not take long for the neighbors dog from the next apartment (where we lived at the time) over to find the dog tied out in heat. I did not realize that he was not on his chain like he always was and that he was not fixed. A thirteen year old kid does not think that complex. Accidents happen. That is why they are called accidents.

I don't want to get into a mud slinging contest with you. Anything from this point on is just more ammunition for you and I'm tired of playing that game. I certainly don't have to justify my life to you. So I too will be abandoning this post. Go back to your bridge TROLL!

[Bluey]

A loose, free dog is free to get into trouble and get hurt and killed while running loose and free.

The rest of the world doesn't like to have to take care of catching or shooting your dog for you, it is your responsability to keep it out of trouble or getting killed.

We don't let two year old kids run loose unsupervised, we know they don't know what they are doing.
Dogs are about as smart about their sense of what is right and how the world works as a two year old human, so we should be smart enough to understand that, without confining and training, a dog is just not going to learn to be the dog we want.

That loose, free dog only knows do to what it's little dog mind can think and it is not always what it is best for it, especially in today's world.

If the OP is still reading, as she already was thinking, there is no good way to go about this than train and confine.
Sorry, that is the way dogs and today's world are.

[Cloverbarley]

I have 5 dogs who have free run of my large farm. 2 are LGDs and do patrol the length and breadth of the property. The other 3 never leave my side and if I go inside, they lie down at the front door and wait till I come back out again. Where I live my dogs would have to travel a fair distance before coming in contact with vehicles however, particularly with LGDs you have to understand that they cover distances easily and quickly hence they need training as to where they are allowed to go and where they aren't. Mine know where they are allowed now because I took the time to teach them. Yes it takes an awful lot of time to teach LGDs but if you have one, it is absolutely paramount that you do.

What I would suggest to the OP is to use the skills necessary to teach a LGD. It must be consistent and a "many times a day" teaching until your puppy understands. If you can't be bothered doing this then as someone else says, 5 acres is tiny so just fence it and then your troubles will be over.

With respects to your dog visiting neighbours and teasing other dogs, if I was those neighbours I'd take your dog to the pound each and every time it visited. I had to do that with one of my neighbours dogs which lives 2 miles away. After about the 7th or 8th time with them having to pay the fine to get the dog back, voila! Dog no longer comes to my property any more to bother me and my dogs.

[MrWinston]

Whether you approve of a dog tied out on a lead to do her business and brought back in while you make a pot of coffee is irrelevant. It does not take long for the neighbors dog from the next apartment (where we lived at the time) over to find the dog tied out in heat. I did not realize that he was not on his chain like he always was and that he was not fixed. A thirteen year old kid does not think that complex. Accidents happen. That is why they are called accidents.

I don't want to get into a mud slinging contest with you. Anything from this point on is just more ammunition for you and I'm tired of playing that game. I certainly don't have to justify my life to you. So I too will be abandoning this post. Go back to your bridge TROLL!

You don't have to justify anything to anyone, nobody does. You choose what statements you make and those you respond to. You seemed to be using your story of your dog bred while tied out to justify some point you were trying to make, forgive me for not understanding what that point was. I still don't! You seem to be saying that regardless of training or fencing a dog can get into trouble, I agree 100%. But with training and careful supervision and conditioning, they are much less likely to.

Carol DiGiuseppe

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