what would you do?

[apkjacks]

we are thinking about purchasing a 30 stall training facility.

we are not trainers, just horse owners. we currently own and run a 10 stall barn that i have 5 boarders and my own horses, so small set up and have done this for 15 years. our present farm we designed and built around the idea of being as maintenance free as possible. 24/7 turnout off each stall, automatic heated waterers. not alot of mucking or bedding. i have some boarders that clean their own stall too. I never make any money at the farm, but was full aware of it. i like to have nice people to ride with and around the barn. that's my history.

getting back to the 30 stall farm.
we are looking at this from a business venture, if possible! I'm looking at it 2 ways.
leasing the 30 stalls to 1 or 2 trainers and have them pay me a per stall fee and let them deal with the day to day operations and we would be responsible for maintenance only.

the 2nd option:
we take on the running of the farm and pay help to perform the day to day operations. i don't mind helping feeding, but physically can't muck and have no interest in spending time turning horses out and blanketing. i could do some rough board as well, but i know that get's complicated with possible boarders stealing other boarder's hay, etc or i could do what i do now where i feed and supply and the boarder mucks their stall. lot's of options????

anyways theses are all ideas that are floating around my head. it's becoming overwhelming, that we may chicken out and stay here!
:confused:

[trubandloki]

Is there a reason you feel the need to yell in the title of all your threads?

[kookicat]

I think you were given some good advice in this thread (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=225124). ;)

[apkjacks]

Is there a reason you feel the need to yell in the title of all your threads?

sorry!!! did not know that by capitalizing that i was yelling??? I just thoguht ir would be easier to read. again apologies!!!!!

[apkjacks]

I think you were given some good advice in this thread (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=225124). ;)

agreed!!! I don't mean to be a pain about this, but wanted to cover my basis and get genuin advise from people that know more than myself about this matter. you all on the board are wonderful givers of great advise.
i thank you all deeply!

[Guin]

Please stop posting in all caps.....

[apkjacks]

Please stop posting in all caps.....

I already apologized to a previous poster. i had no idea that it was an issue. i don't post much and don't know the proper protocal, but do now. i appreciate the advise! thanks

[Cloverbarley]

The barn is a going-concern right now so ask them for their accounts. Then you will see whether it is profitable or not, and if it is can you not continue running it in exactly the same way, using the same people?

[apkjacks]

cloverbarley, i wish it was that simple. the present owner currently let's the train have full use of the facility and an apartment located on the farm for taking full care of her 3 horses and then when she goes away she takes care of her donkeys. she also helps the owner with the general maintenancs of the farm. the trainer also purchases her own liability. the deal is way to good for the trainer. i don't know what she would do if we came in and ran it more like a professional operation where she would need to pay us a lease fee. thanks!

[Chief2]

Having run a small facility and a 40 stall facility, my first suggestion is to look over the books and make sure this is and can really be run for a profit in it's location. Frankly, most of them can't, and that could end the whole deal. Then I would look not only at the facility, but the age and state of the equipment used to keep it running, the fencing situation, and the overall general maintenance involved for keeping this thing up and running throughout all four seasons. Calculate your costs on that over the next couple of years and add them into the picture. If you will need to hire someone for handyman repairs, add in that as well.

If that all passes muster, then I would honestly assess if you want all of this in your life. If this place can be run profitably, and your are sure you could get two trainers to sign on with you and STAY with you, and also that you could survive the financial drought if one of them should unexpectedly pull out and leave with all of their clients, it is one point in favor of purchasing it.

If you can't do that, and are looking at running this as a boarding facility yourself without the added benefit of being able to do any of the heavy work yourself, and are looking at hiring one person to do it for you, that to me is a foolish move. I would hire two. These jobs have a high burnout rate in large facilities because of the heavy physical nature of the work and the inherently low pay, which often denies them a real independent living wage. If you will not be offering health insurance, that will cause a faster rate of fall-off. The best muckers only last about 2 years, and many simply leave without notice, or with such a short notice that getting good help becomes impossible. Additionally, with illnesses and injuries often occurring in these situations, your mucker could be out for a few days, or as many as 6-8 weeks. Who will take over the work in that case? If the injured worker goes to the hospital for medical assistance, some of those facilities will write it up as workman's comp regardless of whehter your worker has paid health insurance, and you will be into added headaches. You are going to need to have a back-up worker to take up the slack and possibly cover some of the weekends. This worker issue is one of the largest headaches in running a large facility.

The next headache is the number of different personalities beneath the roof that come in the form of boarders. This is not just a larger version of the ten-stall barn. It has a dimension all of its own. When all runs smoothly, all is great. But when it doesn't, runnning it can be a real PITA. If you are running the facility in the north, where these people are inside for 4-6 months at a time, things can get difficult. Add in an unhappy worker, a few Drama Llamas, and some general cabin fever and discontent, and things can easily spin out of control and get nasty. If the trainers are at war, it turns into its own special hell. Add in stalls that can't get cleaned, buckets that can't be cleaned, turnout that can't get done, and horses that don't get blanketed (a special hell if there are multiple blankets going on at set temperatures) because you cannot someone to do the work, and cannot do it yourself, and it becomes the season of discontent. Boarders may allow for one happenstance. If they are paying handsomely for the services, their patience for it will not last much longer.

In truth, I can think of many people who would love to run a large facility without having to do any of the heavy lifting. The only ones I know of who have been able to pull it off are those well connected with trainers and service people who can do it for them, are people-oriented, and know how to deal with these people without pi$$ing them off. Check your trainer roster and the availability of your local labor force before taking the plunge.

[apkjacks]

chief2, thanks for all of your valuable info!!!! i have thought about 30 boarders and all of the drama that could create. it's certainly high on my list of concerns. the more i think about this potential change the more i feel i definately would want 1-2 trainers lease stalls. i would like to be more in the background. i certainly don't want to run the day to day operations. i have no problem maintaining the farm and we currently own the equiptment to do so for our present farm and my husband likes to run the equiptment. he's also a farrier. i thanks you so much for your honest reply. it's all valuable information that needs alot of thought.

[Chief2]

That's how my brother took care of the extra stall space on his farm. It worked for years, and then the trainer bought property out of state and moved the operation. So, he kept the same model and went to a self-care boarding plan. One person is in charge of collecting the rent on the stalls and the monthly electric bill they all generate up at the barn, and dealing with the drama. The boarders buy their own hay, bedding, grain, and do their own cleaning and turnout. He takes care of the arena footing, the property and repairs, manure removal, grows and puts in his own hay, from which they may purchase some blocks of bales if there is extra to be had. Rarely does he have to become involved in their daily affairs. However, he is not dealing with something the size you are looking at taking on, so if you decide to try that route, you will have to tweak the plan a bit.

Good luck! :)