Jingles Plz - Got into Feed....

[KrazyTBMare]

Woke up this AM to find out that the gate was left open and the horses got into the barn and into the tack/feed room. Unfortunately, they were able to open the metal trash can of my mares feed and I had just put a brand new bag in (Seminoles Wellness Show n Sport which is a 12% protein and 12% fat). My step dad feeds for me in the AM and called to tell me this.

Basically the entire 50lbs of feed was gone. After inspecting the room and the horses, I saw that my boarders gelding, the "leader", was not interested in hay (it had started raining and there was hay in the stalls and I put them inside quickly). This horse is a vacuum so as soon as I saw him acting strange I knew who had eaten the feed. The baby horse (2 y/o) and my mare were fine. Perky, eating, pooping, drinking, etc.

So I checked his feet - all cold. He wasnt walking or standing funny. His temp was normal (99.8) and pulse and respiration as well. I called my vet to give her the heads up and she said to give him Banamine, keep him outside on soft ground, and tonight try to get him to eat bran with 1/2g mineral oil.


All day the three of them were fine, other than the boarders gelding kind of moping around looking like he had a tummy ache. Still no heat fever, etc.

So I made up his bran/oil mixture and got the feed for the baby horse and my mare ready. Brought everyone in and baby horse goes into his stall and totally ignores his feed and picks at his hay. GREAT.

Pull all food/hay out quickly and check his temp - 102.9. Respiration is elevated and pulse is 48. I gave him Banamine as well and checked his feet - all cold and not standing funny or walking funny.

I had to go get more feed today and when I poured a new bag of feed in, it basically equaled what was eaten last night.

My best guess is that most of the feed was eaten by my boarders gelding, esp since theres no way he would let anyone else much less the baby horse get in the tack room with him and share food. Then when he was done, baby horse came in and ate some as well.

Vet said that 4-6 hrs after they eat it is when they will show the worst signs. Ive been checking all day and like I said, no issues. So Im hoping he is starting to pass into his hindgut and get it moving along. However I dont want to feed the baby horse anything but wouldnt oil help move things along?

Jingles though. Today is destroy the barn day. While I was waiting for the vet to call me back this morning, my mare got pissy with the baby horse standing in her space and went after him and baby horse smashed into the board that I have in front of the barn aisle (its a shedrow barn) and snapped it in half (no injuries though). Then the breaking into the tack room and now both of them colicy. Ugh... And it doesnt help that I had to stay home from work today due to cutting hours because of $$$ concerns. I mean at least I WAS home to take care of them but still... One of those days ya know?

Any input and jingles would be SO appreciated. The only horse that had any sense was my mare. Shes perfectly normal and fine thank God.

:(

[fivehorses]

I guess if it was me, I'd give them all banamine.
The banamine helps regulate the gut bacteria or so my vet told me. That banamine is great stuff!

I have had this happen to me, and I know what an awful gut wrenching feeling it is...
So, here is jingling from NH.

[LookinSouth]

No helpful input to offer unfortunately:( but sending lots of Jingles your way for everybody to pull through healthy and fine.

[Ghazzu]

The banamine helps regulate the gut bacteria or so my vet told me. That banamine is great stuff!



That's a new one on me.
Must have slept thought that part of my pharmacology class...

[EqTrainer]

I would think that you would see a colic rather quickly but laminitis can take a bit longer to show up.

Did your vet have any ideas about the temp on the little guy? That seems odd to me.

Jingling of course! No surprise that Layla didn't pig out, huh?

[ChocoMare]

Keep 'em drinking!!!!

And I'd be lining up the buckets of ice water for those feets anyway.

Jingles!!!

[Raleigh's Mom]

Sorry I have no words of wisdom, but I am ashamed to say that my QH gelding has done this more than once.... last time being last week and I think he ate about 10#'s of ration balancer overnight (you think I would learn to double check the latch going into the feed room). Knock on wood, he has never had any problems, but I can sympathize with the worrying. And, of course, the hard-keeper (Arab, no less) *never* gets into the feed room.

[KrazyTBMare]

Thanks guys.

Baby horse is now at 100.3 and respiration is normal. Hes looking much better and passing gas which I knew he would be and letting out poops. I am going to check on him in another hour and then finally before going to bed and give him some more banamine. Boarders horse is doing fine but vet wants me to give him another 5cc banamine before bed too.

Of course Layla didnt pig out. lol

I keep checking the feet and theres absolutely NO heat or pulse or anything. Everyone is moving fine. I just let them out in the paddock behind the barn and Ben and Layla got out of Rex's (baby horse) sight and he trotted to them, looking totally normal. Like I said, I will check them before bed and then when I get up around 645am. Ben ate a little more of the bran mash but I dont blame him - it didnt look very yummy.

I did give Ben and Rex nux vomica which is a homeopathic remedy. It wont hurt and honestly, when I was very ill from YAZ, the ONLY thing that made me feel better was this nux stuff. Ive used some of these remedies on myself for various other things and oddly enough they work so my girlfriend gave me some for the horses.

Ill keep this updated. Keep the jingles up please!! :)

[JB]

The vet didn't administer activated charcoal? That's one of the first things my vet does for a grain binge - get the toxins created by large amounts of starchy foods, sitting and fermenting in the hind gut, neutralized (at least to some degree).

IMHO anyone who keeps grains on the property, or who has a horse who might escape into the lush grass when he's not supposed to, etc, should keep some UAA gel on hand. Valley Vet is the only place I know who carries is. Universal Animal Antidote - activated charcoal. Keeps pretty much forever.

Laminitis is indeed the worst concern now - not out of the woods for several days.

[ChocoMare]

Good idea about the UAA. :yes:

Also, perhaps consider now searching for a large dead/non-working chest freezer. I've been through a grain raid with my late app mare, so I know the sinking feeling :( It was because of that episode, that I found a freezer off my local Freecycle.org group. The lids are heavy but you can easily add a snap-over latch just in case.

They're moisture, critter and bug proof.

[sketcher]

If I were you I would be icing as a precaution, especially over the next 12 hours.

I had a mare do the same thing - about 40 lbs. I walked her through a whole night of colic, thought she was ok, went in and slept for a few hours, came out and she couldn't walk. We made a pit with mud walls and filled it with all the bags of ice we could buy and water and stood her in there for a whole day before following the standard treatment of padding her feet and icing her regularly. It was probably the best thing we could have done for her as she came out fine in the end.

[KrazyTBMare]

I will get some of that UAA. I wasnt aware of that.

I will admit I am very niave when it comes to founder/laminitis. I have read that not willing to walk or being lame, standing camped under, heat in the feet are signs of this. Any other tale tell signs I should look for?

Other than ice, is there anything else I should do? And what exactly do you DO? I have seen horses standing in buckets of ice water but not so sure how that will go with these guys esp the baby.

I have some Magic Cushion... will that help as well??

[ChocoMare]

"not willing to walk or being lame, standing camped under, heat in the feet" -- These are the signs of acute, active laminitis. The inflammation is already underway and the damage is being done. :(

Icing now and over the next 72 hours is key to staving off the worst of the inflammation.

Yes, buckets of ice water are one way. You can also do Davis Soaking Boots. Or ask your vet for used, giant IV bags.

I've also seen people use kiddie pools for the smaller horses.

[KrazyTBMare]

http://www.laminitisclinic.org



This group which is based out of the UK states that icing the feet does indeed help with inflamation but laminitis is where the blood capalaries are closed off in the feet and icing does the same thing and they do not recommend icing??


How do you know if it is setting in WITHOUT those signs?

[Buffyblue]

Happened to my friend's horse - the vet came out and tubed her and we had to ice her feet for 3 days. She made it through fine, thankfully. Hopefully yours will be OK, too.

[FatPalomino]

I had the Fat Palomino break out and get into 20 lb of grain. Even at 1200 pounds my vet was very worried about him. He has enough issues- rotation would throw him over the edge.

From my vet, right away we started him on Platnium Performance's BioSponge. In fact, my vet recommended treating any horse that *could* have come in contact with the grain with BioSponge. Talk to your vet about it.

I believe we gave Banamine 2x daily, because it does have some effect on the endotoxins, and more so if given 1/2 dose 2x daily.
She said the effect of ace or vasodilators isn't proven, but I gave some ace this first day anyway.
No grain at all for several days.

My vet specializes in laminitis and said we'd pretty much have to put his ice in 24 hours, continuously, to have any effect. I did ice them as much as I could, because he is good for that sort of thing. ;)

He never felt sick. He didn't get a fever. But 24 hours later, he had very very slight heat and elevated, not bounding, pulses, and started to oh so very slightly shift his weight between both front feet.

I'm always in constant contact with the vet, and the horse had therapeutic shoes on for an unrelated issue. That couldn't have hurt and may have helped. I think we decided to give it 6 hours to change before deciding to put the horse in the trailer (more stress on the feet) and bring him to the vet's for round the clock care.

Luckily for us, his signs never progressed, and in resolved completely in 24-48 hours. He's fine, no rotation.

Best of luck.

[jen-s]

Jingling from NC. Keep us posted on how things are going.

[Wraper2]

When My Minis broke into the feed shed and devoured a 50# sack of feed my vet had me put them on antibiotics right away.


The founder comes from toxicity build up when all the bacteria die off that built up to digest the feed.... that is basically how he explained it to me.

It worked for me, no founder in the midgets.

[tbracer65]

I'm surprised the vet didn't come out & oil???? That's the first thing the clinic did to mine when the owner of a boarding stable years ago called & said he broke the fence down & ate twice as much as yours did (he was new & separated the first few days from the others...). Hauled him to the clinic where they oiled him & gave him banamine. Oil was to help coat the feed to 1 - protect the body from the toxins (like other poster mentioned...) & 2 - help prevent colic. The founder can take up to a week to set in -- so keep watch. Also - mine was allowed no grain or grass...just dried hay for 10 days.

[KrazyTBMare]

Everyone looks great at night check. Everyones temp, resp, and pulse are normal. Vet said it is ok for them to eat grass (they are turned out 24/7 anyways and the grass is not lush) and said it is good for them to be out on soft ground. She said wait until tomorrow to feed any hay and when I do to feed my straight timothy and avoid things with alfalfa which is high in carbs and will cause more fermentation (and I might have said that wrong as that was over 12 hrs ago and I was a little stressed at the time).

I gave them 5cc banamine before I went to bed. All bright eyed and normal looking. Feet all cold and no pulse.

They are getting bran and oil in the AM as well.

They have been passing manure and gas all day, drinking, peeing, etc and other than the slight fever and upped resp the young one had, that is the worst of it.

Will check on them in 6 hours when I get up.

[Cashela]

Knock on wood I haven't had this happen but I would be icing just in case.

[monstrpony]

It's a pain in the patootie humping grain bags into the hay loft every month, but at least if this ever happens to me, I've got a bigger problem with the horse falling through the loft floor than eating out of the grain trash barrels.

Anyhow, Jingles--hope everyone comes through it okay!

[KrazyTBMare]

No hay lofts here. And they got into the actual feed tub not extra feed bags. You cant keep extra bags of feed in Fla due to them spoiling or getting bugs in them. Unless you have an A/C feed room, etc.

Checked on everyone this morning. All look great. The boys ate the bran/oil mixture and Im on lunch now so I can call the vet to update her. So far so good but I am going to talk to her about the need to ice the feet, etc.

[MistyBlue]

Has the boarder been notified? The owner didn't want the horse tubed and oiled?

[KrazyTBMare]

She was the 2nd one I called. She said to do whatever the vet recommended.


All horses are 100% today. Vet said risk of founder would be in the 48 hour window which will end tonight. Nice oily poops from them in the paddock too. Everything "normal".

[ChocoMare]

Yay! Glad to hear everyone dodged that bullet. :yes:

[lightlee]

I don't agree with the 48 hour window nonsense. I have sent laminitis set in five days following an acute colic episode.

I would be icing feet, restricting turnout, and feeding very small batches of hay. Doesn't hurt them at all to restrict their diet for five days or more.

[lightlee]

I also a believe that there is an injection that the vet can give following an episode of colic which help prevent or minimize the impact of the toxins that are released following a colic episode.

[ProzacPuppy]

Glad to hear everyone is ok.

My gelding did that once tho not sure how much he got. Barn was closed up for the cold night and he got out of his stall. The O'Connors were doing a clinic there and there were feed bags and hay outside their horses' stalls.

My idiot proceeded to eat the feed and the alfalfa.

My trainer was so mad that she refused to do anything - just said it would serve him right (he drove her nuts with his antics). Daughter actually rode him that day and he never seemed to be bothered by the extra food.

Course he was already on almost 10 lbs of sweet feed a day and still weighed about 950 lbs.

At the time I thankfully was too new a horse owner to know I should have been extremely worried.

Some horses are just pigs. My mare is a total chow hound but the gelding has gotten more mellow about and takes his time eating.

You really have to hide the food from most horses.

[AnotherRound]

Good idea about the UAA. :yes:

Also, perhaps consider now searching for a large dead/non-working chest freezer. I've been through a grain raid with my late app mare, so I know the sinking feeling :( It was because of that episode, that I found a freezer off my local Freecycle.org group. The lids are heavy but you can easily add a snap-over latch just in case.

They're moisture, critter and bug proof.

This is one of the greatest suggestions evah. I have copied your solution to several trainers, just this minute. What a great idea! Especially now that winter is coming, and we are going to start experiencing the influx of mice and rats and critters looking for sustanance on our grain! An all-night grain binge ain't just for horses, is it! Nice going!

[katarine]

You're fine. I had a filly get into alfalfa, straight corn, and half a bag of alfalfa pellets, too. Ate all she flippin' wanted. Oiled her, shots of heparin for toxins and banamine for spasmodic pain, no feed or anything for 2 days, locked in the arena, pooping oily poop lol and drinking water. All was well.

[ChocoMare]

This is one of the greatest suggestions evah. I have copied your solution to several trainers, just this minute. What a great idea! Especially now that winter is coming, and we are going to start experiencing the influx of mice and rats and critters looking for sustanance on our grain! An all-night grain binge ain't just for horses, is it! Nice going!

Glad to be of humble assistance. Granted, not everyone has room for a large chest freezer, but even a cube freezer will do in a pinch. I have a medium one, which meets my needs since I only have 2 horses.

I did my monthly vacuum-out of mine last night. Mr. C'Mare bought a lovely new Rigid Shop Vac and, wow, does that thing do the job! I have mind divided by wooden slats the DH made: http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2874756780015305252zMbDNq