homozygous grey dressage stallions (In the USA)

[springer]

Are there any? Just curious. I have a weakness for greys!

[Cindy's Warmbloods]

Fuerst Gotthard came to mind, but I think he may be retired. Hmmm..will have to think of some others.

[columbus]

He was a nationally ranked dressage horse but is now in a jumping home which he is very good at as well. There is very little on his site about dressage but he was shown competitively in California. He is standing in Montana as a matter of fact. PatO

[railmom]

I just heard that Tina Konyot's Grey Hanoverian Grand Prix stallion Liberty (Lauries crusador/Gimpel) is going to be standing at Bridlewood Farms in Kentucky. I don't know if he is homozygous. if you like grey, he is a wonderful option!

http://tinakonyotdressage.com/HTML/Breeding.htm

[springer]

Liberty looks awesome! Any babies on the ground?
I can't believe there are no homozygous greys left in this country! I'd prefer a warmblood to a draft or iberian type, as I am looking to breed my Balta Czar filly to this sire.

[TouchstoneAcres]

The gray test just came out this year so few owners could tell you whether their stallion is GG or GN yet. I have tested most of my Lipizzans this summer. it costs $25 at UC Davis. Maybe the stallion of your choice would test for you. It takes a 5 to 10 business days.

[scribbles]

Fuerst Gotthard is homozygous but is only avaliable by frozen now
http://www.rainbowequus.com/FuerstGotthard.htm

[springer]

So sad to hear of Fuerst Gotthard's passing. Was he the last homozygous grey do you suppose? Even in Canada?

[Tasker]

We've toyed with having Avebury WF tested for being homozygous grey but as a good horse is of any color - honestly I am too frugal to care enough to do so.

That being said, he has yet to produce a non grey, so maybe in the future Mom will spring for the $25 to confirm one way or another.

[Kyzteke]

I just heard that Tina Konyot's Grey Hanoverian Grand Prix stallion Liberty (Lauries crusador/Gimpel) is going to be standing at Bridlewood Farms in Kentucky. I don't know if he is homozygous. if you like grey, he is a wonderful option!

http://tinakonyotdressage.com/HTML/Breeding.htm

This stallion could not be homozygous for grey since Lauries Crusador is/was chestnut.

As for Fuerst Gotthard, I know they still have very high quality frozen from him. I LOVED this horse be never bred to him because of his color (not a fan of greys in general and they are harder to sell), but otherwise he certainly proved himself in terms of performance and as a sire.

[Tasker]

Lauries Crusador is dark bay FWIW.

[Kyzteke]

Lauries Crusador is dark bay FWIW.

You're right -- I was thinking of Londonderry. But either way, the get from one grey & one non-grey can't be homozygous for grey.

[CrossWinds81]

You're right -- I was thinking of Londonderry. But either way, the get from one grey & one non-grey can't be homozygous for grey.

Really?? I thought if each of the parents had a grey gene that the stallion inherited from both sides that he could be homozygous...or is that just for heterozygous...hmmm I'll have to study that Pennet Square a little more!!! ;0)

Is grey the only thing you are trying to factor in to this breeding?? What are you trying to accomplish...ie: end goal? hunter/jumper/dressage/or eventing horse?? I should think that would be first order and then increase your chances for the "right color"...if the foal is born the wrong color, but can do what he was bred to do, you have many more options, however the reverse is not always true...if he is born grey, but not spectacular in any other way, you have many fewer options. I'm sorry if that is harsh, but really?!? There are plenty of heterozygous grey stallions for you to consider...that would certainly increase your odds for the 'right' color, but allow you to factor in the most important aspects/purposes for breeding in the first place. Having Balta'Czar as your mare's sire is certainly in your favor though! And a great place to start! What bloodlines are on youre mare's dam's side?

What about Ironman? He produces quite a few greys doesn't he? And Inschallah/Zeus is a well known nick as well. I've heard some very good things about Ironman and his get.

[Albion]

Really?? I thought if each of the parents had a grey gene that the stallion inherited from both sides that he could be homozygous...or is that just for heterozygous...hmmm I'll have to study that Pennet Square a little more!!! ;0)

If a horse has a grey gene, it will go grey. Grey doesn't 'hide,' unlike some others.

[Charmb]

Check the Canadian Sporthorse. Our stallion Liebreiz is fully approved with them, and he is a dressage specialist. His sire was grey too, shown dressage and then into eventing successful at both. Grandsire is grey. Strong grey gene. Not sure about homogenis(?) first I heard you could test for the grey gene. There are some very nice greys in the Canadian Warmblood stallion list as well. At one time there were several very nice dressage grey stallions in the Canadian Trakehner stallion book too. All can be viewed on line. Shipping to the USA is normally possible too.
Liebriez does seem to predominantly sire grey, although he has one daughter out of black dam, that is black.

[Kyzteke]

If a horse has a grey gene, it will go grey. Grey doesn't 'hide,' unlike some others.

Exactly. Grey is dominant, so if a horse has the grey gene it will be grey. Grey does not "hide" for generations like some genes (chestnut, for example). So the only way a horse MIGHT be homozygous for grey is if he/she has two grey parents.

I'm alittle shaky on the actual percentages, but I think then it might be 70% or something...

But with only one grey parent, the foal can't possibly inherit more than one grey gene, so it can't possibly be homozygous.

[springer]

Really?? I thought if each of the parents had a grey gene that the stallion inherited from both sides that he could be homozygous...or is that just for heterozygous...hmmm I'll have to study that Pennet Square a little more!!! ;0)

Is grey the only thing you are trying to factor in to this breeding?? What are you trying to accomplish...ie: end goal? hunter/jumper/dressage/or eventing horse?? I should think that would be first order and then increase your chances for the "right color"...if the foal is born the wrong color, but can do what he was bred to do, you have many more options, however the reverse is not always true...if he is born grey, but not spectacular in any other way, you have many fewer options. I'm sorry if that is harsh, but really?!? There are plenty of heterozygous grey stallions for you to consider...that would certainly increase your odds for the 'right' color, but allow you to factor in the most important aspects/purposes for breeding in the first place. Having Balta'Czar as your mare's sire is certainly in your favor though! And a great place to start! What bloodlines are on youre mare's dam's side?

What about Ironman? He produces quite a few greys doesn't he? And Inschallah/Zeus is a well known nick as well. I've heard some very good things about Ironman and his get.

I agree with you Crosswinds... grey is definitely not the only factor, but I AM partial to greys so if there happened to be a homozygous grey who fit all the other criteria I'm looking for, well...:)
My filly's dam was Gamely Dancer XX, a TB (RPSI Mare Book I) with Nasrullah on her dam's side and Northern Dancer on her sire's side.

[Kyzteke]

Well, as far as proven all-arounders, I don't think you could go wrong with Fuerst Gotthart. He was a strong jumper himself and has produced quite afew very nice jumpers AND dressage horses.

Edgar is super to work with and even when FG was alive, he was giving folks a good price on his frozen, which I have been told is super high quality. It is a LFG breeding, so you really can't lose.

As you are looking around, ask if the stallion is homozygous grey. Sometimes the owner will know, sometimes they won't, but as I mentioned before, to even have a chance at it, the stallion must a) be grey himself and b) have 2 grey parents.

Good luck!!

PS And I'm fairly sure FG has Inshallah on his dam's side...it's been awhile since I looked at his pedigree, but I think it was his damsire. I think Furioso II was his sire or grandsire...

FG was approved AHS when he was 14 based pretty much on his show record, so that's not too shabby.

[sniplover]

To add on to what Kyzteke said, a homozygous grey stallion will never produce a non-grey horse. This can be a bit tricky to determine in foals as some grey faster than others, but all mature adult horses must grey.

For instance (and nothing against this stallion, just a convenient example) CharmB said "Liebriez does seem to predominantly sire grey, although he has one daughter out of black dam, that is black" - as a result of this information, Liebriez is heterozygous (1 copy) rather than homozygous (2 copies of grey). So ~ 50% of his foals will be grey (this increases if he's bred to grey mares, obviously)

[furlong47]

We've toyed with having Avebury WF tested for being homozygous grey but as a good horse is of any color - honestly I am too frugal to care enough to do so.

That being said, he has yet to produce a non grey, so maybe in the future Mom will spring for the $25 to confirm one way or another.

Looking at him on your website, there's no need to test -- his sire was chestnut so there is no way he could be homozygous for grey.

To be homozygous, a horse needs to receive one grey gene from each parent. And since grey is dominant, then both parents must be grey.

[Tasker]

Thanks Furlong - I was in the car on the way to Flora Lea and realized my whoops moment! :lol: Nothing like sitting in traffic to let your mind sort stuff out! :)

[DownYonder]

So ~ 50% of his foals will be grey (this increases if he's bred to grey mares, obviously)

I'm not an expert on this by any means, but I believe this really means that there is a 50/50 chance that any one foal will be grey - not necessarily that 50% of the foals WILL be grey. A heterozygous grey stallion could theoretically throw NO grey foals, or ALL grey foals. I know heterozygous grey stallions that fall into each category - one sired 5 foals before being gelded, and none turned grey, and another sired 3 foals before dying in a freak accident at 4 years of age, and all of the foals turned grey (and were from non-grey mares).

It is too bad the OP doesn't want to consider frozen, because Royal Diamond throws a VERY high percentage of grey foals, even though he is not homozygous for the grey gene.

A few grey dressage stallions in the U.S. to consider might be Coco Cavalli, Galeno Tyme, and Stonefire. None of them are homozygous for grey, but Stonefire was by a grey sire, out of a dam with a grey sire. There is also Herzzauber, who is grey by a grey sire from a grey dam. I am not sure he is still breeding, though. He is also in Canada - not the U.S.

[sniplover]

I'm not an expert on this by any means, but I believe this really means that there is a 50/50 chance that any one foal will be grey - not necessarily that 50% of the foals WILL be grey. A heterozygous grey stallion could theoretically throw NO grey foals, or ALL grey foals. I know heterozygous grey stallions that fall into each category - one sired 5 foals before being gelded, and none turned grey, and another sired 3 foals before dying in a freak accident at 4 years of age, and all of the foals turned grey (and were from non-grey mares).

Statistically speaking, 50% of all foals will be grey from a heterozygote. In your examples, the numbers of progeny fall far below anything useful in any biological regressions... so then it becomes possible for the above heterozygous stallions to sire all grey or non-grey foals. If they had continued siring foals, you'd have seen the 50/50 divide emerge... (assuming simple Mendelian inheritance for the grey gene.)

ETA: Native Dancer is a perfect example check out his progeny (http://www.pedigreequery.com/progeny/native+dancer) and their distribution of colors - he's sired more than enough foals to hit statistical relevance :D

[DreamsOfGP]

Well, I don't think he's homozygous, but Maronjo is an awesome stallion (Hanoverian). Went GP dressage and fantastic jumper. Amazing temperament.:

http://www.rhhanoverians.com/index.php/site/stallions/section/maronjo

I rode him for a year as a working student. He was a star, even as a senior citizen. I bought one of his babies for myself and trained several others.