Can I do better than this? Critique my grain free diet...

[manyspots]

My gelding typically has issues with grain that contains soy and alfalfa. And due to his "high" nature, I stay away from corn, oats and molassas.

We are coming into winter, and he is not as heavy as I'd like him to be. He is a 4 on the scale consistently and will expand like a ballon the second he is put on grain, but obviously no grain is giving me some trouble getting wieght on him. Please let me know what you would do for a little added wieght or warmth this winter.

Currently (2x a day):
1.5 lb (dry wieght, pre soaked) pelleted plain beet
1 lb. pelleted rice bran

He also gets free choice grass hay (25 lbs. a day), Smartvite Maintenance Grass multivitamin, Source, and Smartdigest.

A couple questions: Would I be better off switching to oil? Is he getting TOO MUCH beet? Are there any grains you have had luck feeding? I still haven't found one :no:. Thanks guys!

[jn4jenny]

JMHO, but you appear to be doing fine overall, and the question boils down to "How do I add some calories to this diet?"

In theory, there would be nothing wrong with adding more beet pulp. In reailty, that would make for a very hefty meal if it's only fed twice a day. Any chance you can add a third meal? If so, more beet pulp might be helpful.

But if it were my horse and I had no reason to suspect nutritional imbalance, I'd start adding some oil. It's cheap, it doesn't add bulk to the existing meals, and it usually works.

[Daydream Believer]

I would not hesitate to add a bit more rice bran either...up to two pounds. Have you ever tried him on barley? Some horses seem to tolerate that better than corn and oats.

[JB]

3lb beep is not too much at all. He can have about 40% of his forage requirements in beep - that's 8lb for a 1000lb horse.

I personally would not add or switch to oil. Messy, many horses don't do well on it, though many certainly do. If his weight is fine, then I wouldn't switch to oil at all. At least beep and rice bran have additional nutrients :)

If you can't/don't want to do oats, then if you WANT to try a grain, try barley. Even though it's higher in NCS - roughly 66% or so - it apparently has a lower glycemic index than oats do at 50% NSC. You have to soak whole barley though, for a good 12 hours or so, but you don't have to soak rolled/crimped/steamed.

There's really nothing wrong with what you're doing now. You can mix in alfalfa pellets if you want some more quality protein.

[JB]

I would not hesitate to add a bit more rice bran either...up to two pounds.
He's already getting 2lb :) That diet listed is twice a day :)

[Daydream Believer]

Ah...oops...thanks.. I'm still working on my first cup of coffee! I'm no good until I have my morning java! Thanks for pointing that out!

[manyspots]

:lol: I agree... oil is a PITA!!!!!!

I can get a lunch meal into him on 3-4 days a week. I am a shift worker, so sometimes I am just not here during the day (horses are home) and my boarder comes out to do lunch on only some of those days. But I guess that would be better than nothing. I always do late hay at night, so I suppose I could get extra into him then. Never thought of that!

Yeah, the beet already amounts to 6 QTs twice a day once soaked. He has no issues eating it... loves it in fact! I like the rice bran due to not only the fat but the protien it is supplemented with. His topline looks great, but he does need a lot of calories. He's "healthy as a horse" as we have spent much of this year eliminating physical issues. So, adding an extra "meal" would definitely be the answer.

[manyspots]

Is barley readily available?

And as for the NCS, he is barefoot and is sensitive to higher sugar levels. I can almost always see a difference in his feet. Should this be a deciding factor in exploring barley?

[JB]

I think where you are depends on whether you can get barley. My Southern States carries Triple Crown steamed (I think? maybe crimped) barley. But I would think any feed mill that gets corn and/or oats could also get barley if they don't already have it.

3-4 days a week of an extra snack, a couple of pounds, can be great if slight weight gain is needed. If it's just more of what he already gets, it's no digestive problem at all, particularly with just a couple of pounds, particularly if it's non/low grain. And, as you said, the extra hay at night is always helpful :)

Remember that sensitivities to sugars is not just about how much sugar there is, but what the GI is. Lower is better. Higher is what causes insulin spikes. So, it's really up to you. Try the more hay at night, try an additional meal 3-4 days a week, and see where you get.

[jaimebaker]

There's really nothing wrong with what you're doing now. You can mix in alfalfa pellets if you want some more quality protein.

She says the horse has issues with soy and alfalfa.

[JB]

duh *smacks head* of course she did!

[jaimebaker]

:) I wonder if Timothy pellets would be a good idea though. I got no business being in this thread...I wish my lard butts were hard keepers.

[JB]

Hay pellets in general are a good way to get faster-ingested forage calories. It's not quite as high in calories as alf, but a couple of pounds of timothy pellets is still eaten faster, usually, than the same weight of timothy hay, so it does help.

[reefy!]

Your horse's diet is almost identical to my TB's! Right down to the Smartdigest and Smartvites :)

Mine used to get 2 lbs. of rice bran pellets once a day which was great until he got a bit rotund. I cut him back to 1 1b. and then eventually to just 1/4 lb. because he was not dropping the weight even with more work.

Mine does not get any alfalfa (makes him a tad mean) and so with that combo and probably around 20-25 lbs. of grass hay a day, he finally dropped some weight. I've put him back up to 1/2 lb. of the rice bran pellets - he's getting more work and winter is coming - he's never had the beet pulp though I'd imagine he would like it if I did give it to him. He just seems to keep at a fine weight with what he's getting. No grass pasture here so that isn't part of the equation. No grain type feed at all as, like yours, he tends to get hot and when he gets hot, he gets mean.

So, I'd up that rice bran to as much as 2 lbs. a day. It took mine about 6 months before he really fattened up but he's stayed great even with cutting him back.

Whoops - not reading for comprehension!!! He gets 2 lbs. a day (1 lb. twice a day, doh). On the horse before this one who was allergic to alfalfa and soy and rice bran (yeah, not an easy one to feed), he kept his weight with lots of beet pulp and grass hay. And some supplements for joint, vitamins, etc. But overall, he stayed pretty round on that, another easy keeper once we figured out what he could tolerate.

[jn4jenny]

:lol: I agree... oil is a PITA!!!!!!

What is so PITA about purchasing a 1-ounce pump at a restaurant supply or janitorial supply store and pumping it eight times to get one cup? Soaking beet pulp is a bigger PITA than that.

If the issue is having to constantly refill a gallon jug, the spend the extra $5 for the long-threaded pump that goes on a 5 gallon container. I spent the "really" big money ($9.95) and got a really cool pump that has threaded lids for all sizes of jars, including the weird jugs at Sam's Club that have 4.4 gallons in them.

But like I said, if you prefer a third meal of beet pulp, that would certainly work too.

[JB]

It's "messy' even if you pump it out. Horse noses with oily stuff get all over everything. Many types of oil turn to sludge in cold weather. Inevitably some oil spills or leaks.

I used to dump my Sam's 4.4 gallons into a 5 gallon water cooler so it would come out of the bottom spigot. That was quite handy in terms of "pouring".

[EqTrainer]

I would probably add flax and tri-amino. But I add tri-amino to everything. :lol: I hate rice bran. Fat and nothing else good for them. JMO, I like to make every calorie count.

[RU2U]

FYI - TSC store has vege oil in pellet form. I fed my mare it over the winter last year and its nothing but vege oil. She had the vit. just need more bulk and it worked really well for us.

[manyspots]

I never even knew Veggie oil pellets existed!!!! How cool is that!

As for Flax EqTrainer, I always thought it was more for coat. Where he is a hypersensitive gelding do I have to worry about flax and that (is it photosensitivity?). I do need to revisit the Tri-Amino too. He just seems to have plateaued on this current diet and I can't seem to cover those ribs just a hair more.