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canyonoak
Sep. 22, 2009, 12:33 PM
http://www.sms-pferdenews.de/


babelfish:


<< Next shock for Isabell Werth: The five times Dressur Olympic champion has new suspension added by German FN.

FEI gave six months suspension.
The central recommendation of the commission of the German olympic sport federation (DOSB), that submitted its final report on Tuesday in goods village, demands a further one year suspension.

`We must follow the recommendations of the commission ยด, said FN Secretary-General Soenke Lauterbach.

Thus the 40 years old Werth must fear there will be no time to try to qualify for 2010 WEG..>>

Yayy German FN.

They handpicked the commisssion that made the ruling. Breido made Wendt the scapegoat while he and his henchman Lauterbach continue to sup at the trough.

What a vindictive bunch of petty creatures.

siegi b.
Sep. 22, 2009, 04:25 PM
If I were Isabelle Werth I would apply for citizenship with the Netherlands while pregnant.

You're absolutely right Canyonoak - what a bunch of nasty, petty, little minds!! They don't deserve a rider of Isabelle's caliber!:(

spotted mustang
Sep. 22, 2009, 04:40 PM
a further one-year suspension for what? What did she do now?!

torontodressage
Sep. 22, 2009, 05:51 PM
a further one-year suspension for what? What did she do now?!

She stepped on some toes belonging to people who are born with blue blood.

egontoast
Sep. 22, 2009, 06:12 PM
If I were Isabelle Werth I would apply for citizenship with the Netherlands while pregnant.

HMM, I was thinking that too :cool: except that her sponsors might not want that.

Whitfield Farm Hanoverians
Sep. 22, 2009, 10:36 PM
I actually got an email from Isabel last week. I had written to her just to offer my support & she wrote me back. Very nice of her.
I don't make a habit of writing people I don't know but she has given the dressage world so much. I just hate that all of this is happening to her.

Kareen
Sep. 23, 2009, 06:29 AM
It's only fair. She has damaged the sport massively with her actions and it is about time this kind of behavior from supposed role model athletes stops. A honestly earned bronze medal weighs more than a gold abonnement based on fraudulent activity. All she has been giving to the sport in the last couple of months is a bad reputation and massive negative press resulting in tremendous cuts into both TV coverage and public support of our sport.
Surely it is tough for her but she is educated and smart enough she was aware what the odds were when she decided to have longterm psychopharmaka administered to her showhorse. Why do so many people pretend nothing bad has happened? I personally hate to be robbed of TV coverage for the main show events and I hate suddenly having to defend my sport against critizism from non-equestrian friends. I'm tired of it and I applaud the FN they are finally at least trying to do something about it.

slc2
Sep. 23, 2009, 07:17 AM
What does it work out into, in practical terms?

Does it start from the date of the initial fei provisional suspension when the drug test first came back? Then it really is just adding a little bit to the FEI suspension.

I don't feel the same as either the yay isabel's or the bad bad isabel groups.

I think both groups make this matter too black and white.

I think expecting the organizations to come up with drug clearing times and lists of what can be used and not used is unrealistic. They might come up with a list of what meds are considered 'dope' and what's considered 'medicine' but even that is fraught with difficulty and controversy.

First, it would be seen by the public as encouraging and condoning drug use. Second, it denies the complexity and variability of drug clearing times. Third, it denies the issues of drug masking and of new drugs, which are constantly becoming available.

The bottom line for me, is that the responsible person has to educate him/herself on medications he uses on his horses. He can't actually take his vet's word, not any more. He has to become something of a pharmacologist himself. He cannot resort to an excuse of 'I didn't know', and the public can't expect leniency for him if he does.

He may have to discuss it with several vets, a human doctor, talk to other riders and trainers privately, go to pdr.com...Yes, medication for horses has gotten complex enough that s/he has no choice but to learn a great deal about any med he is going to give his horse during the competition season.

The responsible person has to realize that at the top, he is under a public microscope. He has to realize he could be 'made an example of' if his horse gets a positive drug test. He has to realize that politics in organizations, alliances and dynamics, are such that he could get his ass handed to him on a platter if he draws the public eye with a positive drug test.

He has to realize the repercussions of using a human psychiatric drug, too, as many people (whether you think legitimately or not) have a horror of these particular drugs.

THIS drug, being used on a horse, just bothers me. Horsemen very often go by experience rather than research because there IS very little research on medications for horses. And they rarely would recognize the name of this drug or know what it's used for in humans, or even what it does, let alone its side effects. But this drug, as well as its wide use in the USA as a sedative on horses, just bothers me. I am not against medication, so don't even go there. But I think there are better alternatives if a sedative must be used, as well as times when sedatives are being used, and shouldn't be used at all.

I understand a rider needs to be able to give medications as she sees fit, to her horses, based on what she knows and what she is trying to do to help her horses. Whisper may have benefited from having this medication for the farrier - I'm sure the farrier benefitted if the horse was quiet and safer to work on. If the horse jerks its hind legs or pulls away on three legs, it can be horrible for the farrier's back and knees. He might even get hurt and not be able to work for some number of days. He might even refuse to work on a horse that hurts him or strains his back.

Whisper MAY have benefitted from getting this particular medication for Shivers. That is unclear. There is no research to read about this.

Whisper's performance MAY have been altered. Some of us insist it must have been and that Isabel is lying, and this horse was medicated to enhance his scores one person even named movements this was done to improve. Others insist she was telling the truth and just helping her horse be comfortable during shoeing. No one seems to agree on this.

I think how people come down on this depends not on what the truth is, because no one of us was there and saw what went on, but on their own experience and emotions. How we react says more about us and our experiences than about 'the truth', because none of us were there.

If they have had frustrating experiences with the organizations, they assume the organizations are unfair. If they were upset that Courtney King got a positive drug test for her horse after some unknown exposure during an emergency, they're more likely to condemn the organization in this case. If they're rah rah USA, they may assume Courtney was 'in the right' and Isabel was 'in the wrong'. If they're furious watching the organizations struggle to get their arms around the new drug test technology, they will react to isabels situation differently.

If they have an old horse at home that can show with a little bute under USEF rules and the FEI drug no tolerance policy is something they just can't get onboard with, they can be predicted to come down with a less anti-isabel response, or even with a really furious, hot headed, defensive, angry reaction like some did here. If they've become distrustful of the top riders through what they've seen or heard, they may assume all the eggs at the top are rotten, everyone lies, no one can be trusted.

eurodressage
Sep. 23, 2009, 07:29 AM
with a phot of her being seven months pregnant

http://www.eurodressage.com/news/dressage/germany/2009/werth-suspension.html

snoopy
Sep. 23, 2009, 07:42 AM
with a phot of her being seven months pregnant

http://www.eurodressage.com/news/dressage/germany/2009/werth-suspension.html



your site appears to be down.....

slc2
Sep. 23, 2009, 07:42 AM
that link takes me to Network Solutions, not eurodressage.

Kareen
Sep. 23, 2009, 08:09 AM
Well if I was her I would appreciate being able to spend a lot of time with the little one without having to explain herself and her show-schedule (or lack thereof) to an overzealous fanclub. Who knows maybe she set up this whole thing to get rid of some of the pressure. Becoming a mom changes life so drastically I could understand if she had a desire to kiss the top-competition good bye and elegant way for a while.
I wish her the best of deliveries and a happy 'young-mom's' time.

slc2
Sep. 23, 2009, 08:14 AM
I just doubt it was deliberate.

But I also doubt Whisper came to her without this issue.

egontoast
Sep. 23, 2009, 09:16 AM
I don't feel the same as either the yay isabel's or the bad bad isabel groups

Typical misrepresentation of what has been posted. According to the essay you have written, though, you must be in the bad isabel group.

Despite what you say, I don't think very many people see it as a black and white issue. Having read the discussions, I'd say most people think a penalty is appropriate for breaking the rules regardless of intention and gain,etc. Those issues are irrelevant to the rule.

The only question is how severe should the penalty be. It 's not about yay isabel or bad bad isabel. Get a grip.

Eclectic Horseman
Sep. 23, 2009, 10:19 AM
I agree with Kareen. If not resolved, the drug problem could definitely be the nail in the coffin for German equestrian sports. Even if it is more a matter of "public perception" of the sport--because, in the end, that is everything.

I am currently reading a new book called "Headless Horsemen" by Jim Squires which is about the drug culture in thoroughbred racing, the growing negative public perception of the sport and the moves toward reform. He quotes a well known Kentucky vet who talks about his concession to the demands of owners and trainers looking for a chemical advantage.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/0805090606/ref=dp_proddesc_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

All equestrian sports PTB should be paying attention if they want their sports to remain healthy and thriving.

nhwr
Sep. 23, 2009, 10:40 AM
Where is the vindictiveness?

Her actions had consequences. She admitted she broke the rules, the FN is obliged to respond. They didn't give her the maximum penalty. Seems reasonable enough to me.

Again I commend her for her early and forthright admission and wish and her well for the birth of her child.

Coreene
Sep. 23, 2009, 11:17 AM
Breido. The Other Napoleon.

suzy
Sep. 23, 2009, 11:40 AM
I hate suddenly having to defend my sport against critizism from non-equestrian friends. I'm tired of it and I applaud the FN they are finally at least trying to do something about it.

Regardless of what Isabel did or did not do, this type of thing happens in EVERY sport, so I would not be overly concerned about "having to defend my sport."

Ambrey
Sep. 23, 2009, 11:43 AM
I don't understand, I thought the FN had said after her sentence that they were NOT going to do this.

It isn't as much the vindictiveness that bothers me as much as the seeming inability to stick with any sort of plan.

Eclectic Horseman
Sep. 23, 2009, 12:09 PM
Regardless of what Isabel did or did not do, this type of thing happens in EVERY sport, so I would not be overly concerned about "having to defend my sport."


I disagree. There is the added element of the perception of "animal abuse and cruelty" in equestrian sports. Due to PETA and other animal rights activists, there is an increasing scrutiny and public outcry when it is perceived that animals are being mistreated or exploited.

This is much different than human sports in which the athletes are free to choose what they want to do to their own bodies. There is not much of an activist movement to save them from themselves--there is just the issue of fairness and good sportsmanship.

Furthermore, human sports like baseball and football are SO popular that they can withstand almost any negative publicity. This is not the case with equestrian sports that are not so popular and already criticized as elitist, etc.

stolensilver
Sep. 23, 2009, 12:16 PM
There's nothing like kicking someone when they are down is there?

From Isabell's point of view other than this is pouring salt into an already open wound the timing is not too bad. She can have her baby in peace without worrying about getting back in the saddle to go to competitions when she is still sore and tired. I sincerely hope she enjoys time time with her partner and her new baby, when they arrive.

For the German federation (FN) to give their rider a bigger penalty than the international body (FEI) makes me wonder what sabre rattling is going on behind the scenes? I mean, why would they do that? The FN is not bigger or stronger than the FEI so why would they effectively say "we think your penalty is insufficient" and slap a bigger and hugely public one on of their own? What political advantage is there to this move? It has to boil down to money in some way, everything does. I'd love to know the full story here. For sure it has little to do with the status of the sport or the well being of horses.

Kareen
Sep. 23, 2009, 12:20 PM
Regardless of what Isabel did or did not do, this type of thing happens in EVERY sport, so I would not be overly concerned about "having to defend my sport."

What happens in other sports is not what I am concerned with. If you had grown up being surrounded of a totally horsey environment where our 'gold ladies' enjoyed a practically untouchable 'hero-status' with both the media and the public you would have an understanding of where the difference lies and just how much negative impact this current earthquake situation has on all equestrians out here.
I am shaken by the huge image loss riding has suffered over the last months. It basically began with Athens where Bettina Hoy made a complete joke of ourselves, it went on and on with the laughable and bigot Rollkur-series in St.Georg, next thing that hit us was the C.A. saga followed by lengthy 16:9 coverage on the new cruelty case of Christine W. and now Isabell Werth virtually demontaged herself with a full blown doping scandal. The effect on the popularity of riding and riders in this country is comparable to the shock that went through British Royalty when Princess Diana died. We're disorientated, shocked and grossed out by what's happening. And in all this disastrous development the FN is at least trying to do the right thing (and it is difficult because the problems don't start or end with the top athletes but lay within the surrounding system and some problems are deep-seated and will hurt to solve) and all they get as an answer on this particular forum is backstabbing of people who don't really know what's going on here. I take issue with the way many foreigners feel entitled to critizising our local FN for what they are doing. Surely mistakes happen anywhere but the cause sanctions the measures to a degree doesn't it?

canyonoak
Sep. 23, 2009, 12:28 PM
Latest clarification from FN:

Isabell is suspended by FEI from all competition through Dec. 23, 2009.

FN adds further suspension from TEAM competition through JUne 23, 2010.

Isabell is free to compete as an individual at ALL competitions from Dec. 23,2009 onwards.


In this way, the FN and its commission demonstrate the hard stand they plan for drug cases and yet allow Isabell to get herself and horses together for real Nations Cup competition at WEG.

Eclectic Horseman
Sep. 23, 2009, 12:30 PM
and, Kareen, you can't fail to mention the jumping team for those who may be unaware

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/amateur/story/2009/05/28/sp-equestrian-doping.html

as well as Ulla Salzgeber's case

http://www.eurodressage.com/news/dressage/germany/2003/rusty_doping4.html

Gee, do you think that the FN noticed a pattern here? :no:

ridgeback
Sep. 23, 2009, 01:16 PM
Latest clarification from FN:

Isabell is suspended by FEI from all competition through Dec. 23, 2009.

FN adds further suspension from TEAM competition through JUne 23, 2010.

Isabell is free to compete as an individual at ALL competitions from Dec. 23,2009 onwards.


In this way, the FN and its commission demonstrate the hard stand they plan for drug cases and yet allow Isabell to get herself and horses together for real Nations Cup competition at WEG.

Looks like they are just appeasing the animal rights groups(who go waaay to far) yet still allowing IW to show and be on the team in time for WEG.

ridgeback
Sep. 23, 2009, 01:19 PM
I take issue with the way many foreigners feel entitled to critizising our local FN for what they are doing. Surely mistakes happen anywhere but the cause sanctions the measures to a degree doesn't it?

Kareen welcome to the FREE world.:D

LLDM
Sep. 23, 2009, 01:44 PM
Kareen welcome to the FREE world.:D

Wow, that was rude.

I can assure you from proir experience that Kareen feels free to express her opinions and also acknowledges the rights of anyone else to do so. Americans "take issue" all the bloody time, right or wrong, at the top of our lungs.

FWIW the Germans have made no secret of the fact that they are cracking down. Why is anyone surprised at this? I'm sure they have no desire to keep losing hard won medals to scandals and doping charges.

I suppose some of you would rather they gather up their lawyers and head the the FEI tribunals and defend their own like we do. Because, of course, that has really worked for cleaning up OUR backyard.

SCFarm

SomethingDazzling
Sep. 23, 2009, 02:30 PM
Having read the discussions, I'd say most people think a penalty is appropriate for breaking the rules regardless of intention and gain,etc.

I think that if an animal cannot compete at a certain level without the aid of a drug then it should not be competing at that level. Humans know, or should know better! All drugging leads to is BIGGER issues down the road. I highly doubt that it was deliberate so that she could have a "show vacation" after she gives birth, it was done deliberatly for competition reasons...for gain. I'm one for legal suppliments & injections (i.e: joint, muscle, digestion, and respiratory), but never for something that is illegal to make my horse feel or perform better. There are drug rules for a reason!
(I am not disagreeing that she is not a great-great rider)
Good Luck to her with the upcoming arrival of her new child!

stolensilver
Sep. 23, 2009, 03:27 PM
I think one of the huge problems with drugs in horse sports at the moment is that the rules on which drugs are allowed and what level of that drug is allowed are not clear. If it was clear people would be able to adhere to those rules.

The other problem with the rules as they stand is that they are much more stringent for horses than they are for human athletes. This makes no sense to me at all. Humans are allowed some analgesics. Horse are allowed none. And when the FEI banned Lavender and "anything given with the intention of improving performance" I lost all faith in them. Does that mean you can't give a lazy horse oats because those are intended to pep the horse up and so improve their performance? I mean, where do you draw the line when the rules are so wooly and yet so aggressively enforced?

Equibrit
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:00 PM
She spoke out. (May 2009) I wonder if they will be going after Ingrid Klimke next ?

Eclectic Horseman
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:08 PM
She spoke out. (May 2009) I wonder if they will be going after Ingrid Klimke next ?

Why? What makes you think that Ingrid is doping? I don't think there is anything to support that...

Equibrit
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:12 PM
I did not say or imply that Ingrid was doping. She spoke up with Isabel on the same subject at the same meeting in May. (regarding medication vs doping)

ridgeback
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:20 PM
Wow, that was rude.

I can assure you from proir experience that Kareen feels free to express her opinions and also acknowledges the rights of anyone else to do so. Americans "take issue" all the bloody time, right or wrong, at the top of our lungs.

FWIW the Germans have made no secret of the fact that they are cracking down. Why is anyone surprised at this? I'm sure they have no desire to keep losing hard won medals to scandals and doping charges.

I suppose some of you would rather they gather up their lawyers and head the the FEI tribunals and defend their own like we do. Because, of course, that has really worked for cleaning up OUR backyard.

SCFarm

exactly how was that rude:confused::rolleyes:

Equibrit
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:23 PM
The assumption that America has the exclusive on freedom is very insulting to folks from other nations.

Eclectic Horseman
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:23 PM
I did not say or imply that Ingrid was doping. She spoke up with Isabel on the same subject at the same meeting in May. (regarding medication vs doping)


Right. Isabel was suspended. Isabel was doping.

Ingrid was not suspended. Ingrid was not doping.

Logic shows that Isabel was suspended for doping, not for speaking out.

Although it would be totally appropriate for the penalty to be increased in her case because by speaking out, Isabel put the FN on notice that she was aware of the rules and intended to disregard them. That shows that she acted in willfull disregard of the rules and has relatively more culpability than some innocent dupe.

Please don't tarnish the reputation of any riders who have not been implicated at all in doping by mentioning their names in this context.

Dame M. Dimblekins
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:26 PM
She spoke out.Yes she did. Rather foolishly, it would appear. That hardly means she was "gone after".
There is that adage about stones and glass houses ...

Ms. Klimke will surely be subject to testing. All riders at that level are.

Equibrit
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:27 PM
Obviously - not everybody sees it your way. Thank heavens.

Trevelyan96
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:29 PM
Simple fact. If you know the rules and willfully break them, you're taking your chances. Whining about the punishment once you're caught isn't very impressive.

Whether the rules are reasonable or not is an entirely different issue.

ridgeback
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:29 PM
The assumption that America has the exclusive on freedom is very insulting to folks from other nations.

Who said that? She was complaining about people that had the nerve to comment about the FN and their craziness and all I said is welcome to the free world not the free U.S. point being in a free world people can comment on what they want.

JSwan
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:38 PM
It's only fair. She has damaged the sport massively with her actions and it is about time this kind of behavior from supposed role model athletes stops.

We'll trade you Isabell Werth for Michael Vick.

Equibrit
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:38 PM
Right. Isabel was suspended. Isabel was doping. Isabel's vet medicated the horse.

Ingrid was not suspended. Ingrid was not doping. Niether was Isabel.
Logic shows that Isabel was suspended for doping, not for speaking out. It is not logic to impose further penalties.
Although it would be totally appropriate for the penalty to be increased in her case because by speaking out, Isabel put the FN on notice that she was aware of the rules and intended to disregard them. That shows that she acted in willfull disregard of the rules and has relatively more culpability than some innocent dupe. She pointed out the "nature" of the rules.

Please don't tarnish the reputation of any riders who have not been implicated at all in doping by mentioning their names in this context.
You seem to have taken care of that.

The whole business defies logic.
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=4096715

egontoast
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:46 PM
Isabel put the FN on notice that she was aware of the rules and intended to disregard them. That shows that she acted in willfull disregard of the rules and has relatively more culpability than some innocent dupe

:confused: This completely untrue. BOGUS. LIE. FALSE.

Her objections related to the proposed rule regarding keeping a log .

Eclectic Horseman
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:48 PM
The whole business defies logic.


Oh, please. Isabel used the same vet that Ulla used on Rusty who was also suspended for not declaring use of a medication (testosterone--more commonly used for building muscle than growing hair, as she claimed.)

Isabel used a non-veterinary psychotropic drug on a horse that she was competing. (oh by the way, the drug is more commonly used for a long term tranquilizer to enhance performance in horses than it is to sedate a horse for shoeing.)

Isabel may or may not have been wrong to use that drug. She was wrong to use that drug on a horse that she was competing. There was an easy answer here--don't compete the horse if you want to give it an illegal substance. Period.

It would take too much time to try to educate you on the various factors that go into increasing or decreasing a potential penalty for the same type of offense. But take it from me, when determining the appropriate penalty, legally it makes a huge difference whether the offender's actions were intentional, negligent or just ignorant.

Eclectic Horseman
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:51 PM
:confused: This completely untrue. BOGUS. LIE. FALSE.

Her objections related to the proposed rule regarding keeping a log .

As I recall, the published quote was something like, "it is nobody's business what I give to my horses."

And that of course is the truth. As long as it doesn't constitute criminal abuse and as long as you don't intend to compete them...
in which case it is the business of the appropriate authorities. Obviously.

http://www.eurodressage.com/news/dressage/germany/2009/werth-zdf.html

dalpal
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:52 PM
We'll trade you Isabell Werth for Michael Vick.

AMEN to that. :yes:

SomethingDazzling
Sep. 23, 2009, 05:39 PM
[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;4395587]
Isabel used a non-veterinary psychotropic drug on a horse that she was competing. (oh by the way, the drug is more commonly used for a long term tranquilizer to enhance performance in horses than it is to sedate a horse for shoeing.)

Isabel may or may not have been wrong to use that drug. She was wrong to use that drug on a horse that she was competing. There was an easy answer here--don't compete the horse if you want to give it an illegal substance. Period.QUOTE]

This pretty much sums it up everyone!!

caddym
Sep. 23, 2009, 07:50 PM
I think one of the huge problems with drugs in horse sports at the moment is that the rules on which drugs are allowed and what level of that drug is allowed are not clear. If it was clear people would be able to adhere to those rules.

The other problem with the rules as they stand is that they are much more stringent for horses than they are for human athletes. This makes no sense to me at all. Humans are allowed some analgesics. Horse are allowed none. And when the FEI banned Lavender and "anything given with the intention of improving performance" I lost all faith in them. Does that mean you can't give a lazy horse oats because those are intended to pep the horse up and so improve their performance? I mean, where do you draw the line when the rules are so wooly and yet so aggressively enforced?

ABSOLUTELY

there is no allowance for therapeutic levels, differences in individual metabolic rates, drug half-life etc...if the science is not clear, why are the penelties so harsh?

My horses have been "randomly" drug tested at least once a year - each time by a different vet. (I have sound sane horses and do not use any illegal drugs). But as an MD, I am very interested in the process and since we have long waiting periods until the horses pee, I always ask the vet about drugs and detection levels and the vets really don't know... (And never mind the fact that I have NEVER been drug tested - boring but true, I would be negative :))

Isabelle is an educated woman. She would know she would be tested. I believe that she thought she had an adequate window between drug administration and competition.

alicen
Sep. 23, 2009, 09:11 PM
What Werth or her vet might have calculated about the detection time of fluphenazine or the therapeutic value of that drug is a moot point. Fluphenazine is a banned drug in Germany. Period.

PennyChrome
Sep. 23, 2009, 11:52 PM
I just doubt it was deliberate.



Why do you doubt it was deliberate? It shouldn't be hard to find a suitably sound horse when you're that excellent of a rider. Now she'll perhaps have just a bit of time to raise a child.

slc2
Sep. 24, 2009, 12:03 AM
why do I doubt it's deliberate? Because anyone as outspoken as Werth has been, has enough b**** to do what she needs to do with her life. If she wanted to have some time off she'd just take some time off. She did exactly that when she was busy with law school.

But most modern European women, from my very limited experience, don't have any need whatsoever to to take time off when they have kids unless they want to. They have baby day care, nannies, the lab where my sister worked was full of sprouts, she put hers in the autoclave for a nap. Just pack up the critter, throw him on your back, and go do whatever you usually do. That kid'll be doing one time changes by the time she's six.

Alagirl
Sep. 24, 2009, 04:05 AM
why do I doubt it's deliberate? Because anyone as outspoken as Werth has been, has enough b**** to do what she needs to do with her life. If she wanted to have some time off she'd just take some time off. She did exactly that when she was busy with law school.

But most modern European women, from my very limited experience, don't have any need whatsoever to to take time off when they have kids unless they want to. They have baby day care, nannies, the lab where my sister worked was full of sprouts, she put hers in the autoclave for a nap. Just pack up the critter, throw him on your back, and go do whatever you usually do. That kid'll be doing one time changes by the time she's six.

LOL, not quiet true in Germany, though I am sure she has made neough money to afford a nanny.

Kareen
Sep. 24, 2009, 05:08 AM
I'm not sure any of us can assess what kind of influence fan-pressure has on a star like I.W. as I doubt any of us have ever been in this situation.
Motherhood though while working full time is a situation I am and many other CoTHers are as well familiar with. So yes I could understand wanting to have a 'normal life' and focus on the baby for a while. I can't imagine having a crowd of strangers claiming to be friends or invading your privacy when you are in as fragile a position as having your first child. That must feel like being out among wolves... I wasn't trying to imply that's what happened but I could completely understand wanting to pull out of public to a degree for the sake of some privacy.

Sabine
Sep. 24, 2009, 05:10 AM
There's always a first: I agree with Equibrit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman
Right. Isabel was suspended. Isabel was doping. Isabel's vet medicated the horse.

Ingrid was not suspended. Ingrid was not doping. Niether was Isabel.
Logic shows that Isabel was suspended for doping, not for speaking out. It is not logic to impose further penalties.
Although it would be totally appropriate for the penalty to be increased in her case because by speaking out, Isabel put the FN on notice that she was aware of the rules and intended to disregard them. That shows that she acted in willfull disregard of the rules and has relatively more culpability than some innocent dupe. She pointed out the "nature" of the rules.

Please don't tarnish the reputation of any riders who have not been implicated at all in doping by mentioning their names in this context.
You seem to have taken care of that.

The whole business defies logic.


Beyond that I would like to say to Kareen that the biggest problem the Germs have right now is that they have been above it all for too long...and it hurts to fall and fail...welcome to the rest of the world. It is however human and normal and does happen. Thus - get used to it. The Germans will have no more supremacy in dressage and it will not change for a while.
This is not due to doping but rather due to attitude problems and the complete lack of innovation that has been properly SUPPORTED by the 'authorities'.....thus the training methods have been somewhat left behind....

Get over it- get real and watch what is REALLY happening rather than being insanely prejudiced against everyone and everything outside of Germany...spoken by a German!

Sabine
Sep. 24, 2009, 05:17 AM
There's always a first: I agree with Equibrit!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman
Right. Isabel was suspended. Isabel was doping. Isabel's vet medicated the horse.

Ingrid was not suspended. Ingrid was not doping. Niether was Isabel.
Logic shows that Isabel was suspended for doping, not for speaking out. It is not logic to impose further penalties.
Although it would be totally appropriate for the penalty to be increased in her case because by speaking out, Isabel put the FN on notice that she was aware of the rules and intended to disregard them. That shows that she acted in willfull disregard of the rules and has relatively more culpability than some innocent dupe. She pointed out the "nature" of the rules.

Please don't tarnish the reputation of any riders who have not been implicated at all in doping by mentioning their names in this context.
You seem to have taken care of that.

The whole business defies logic.


Beyond that I would like to say to Kareen that the biggest problem the Germs have right now is that they have been above it all for too long...and it hurts to fall and fail...welcome to the rest of the world. It is however human and normal and does happen. Thus - get used to it. The Germans will have no more supremacy in dressage and it will not change for a while.
This is not due to doping but rather due to attitude problems and the complete lack of innovation that has been properly SUPPORTED by the 'authorities'.....thus the training methods have been somewhat left behind....


Just as a side note-- Isabell did know about the meds administered but was very ill advised by her vet. How many times have you listened to your vet- that you have used for years and trusted him/her- without question? Are you completely informed about every chemical ingredient that goes into your horses' meds at all times? Are you keeping track of the details of the effects of meds aggregating in a horses' system? If so- you have my unmitigated respect.
In my mind- the whole thing is a giant mess- comparable to the american health care disaster...

Kareen
Sep. 24, 2009, 05:59 AM
I fail to understand what you're saying. Must be a German thing *lol*

slc2
Sep. 24, 2009, 08:30 AM
I have to agree with Kareen, a person can't just decide to take time off - I'm not so sure it's fan pressure; the people who own her horses might not be in favor, and might have something to say about it. But I'm not sure it always controls everything someone at Isabel's level does - people have taken time off for family over objections of owners and fans.

Pony Fixer
Sep. 24, 2009, 09:53 AM
If she wanted to have some time off she'd just take some time off.


a person can't just decide to take time off -

Uhh....so can she take time off because it's so "easy" in Europe, or can she not take off because of fan pressure and sponsors?

torontodressage
Sep. 24, 2009, 12:52 PM
At least the FN has a good excuse now to cover their own *sses for the fact that Germany has dropped from place 1 to place 3 in dressage :D

Kareen
Sep. 24, 2009, 01:28 PM
Yep that comes on top. Maybe they aren't quite so retarded as some may think *lol* To me it is not so much a question of who wins and why or for how long but a matter of not giving up a piece of equestrian culture. I couldn't give a rat's *** about the titles. It is surely nice to have them but like many others I also see the downside of one or two nations dominating a sport over decades. Afterall audiences want to watch interesting contests and it is no real contest when the only question is who out of two will win. No audience, no popularity, no popularity no more sponsorships. No sponsorships no hig price sales of promising sporthorses. No high price sales no way to economically run a breeding programme. Et voil``a...