PDA

View Full Version : Paying for trainer's clinic



Canterbury Court
Sep. 22, 2009, 10:58 AM
I pay a professional trainer to ride my horses. Recently she asked if she could work my horses with a clinician. No problem. I just found out last night that she expects me to to pay for the clinic not her. I am a little perplexed. I am already paying her to be my trainer - is it also my finacial responsibility to pay for her to get training? The clinician will be coming to my farm, using my arena and equipment, and will not be paynig any fee split. I don't want to be unreasonable but I don't directly pay for my doctor to learn a new surgery, for my accountant to study the tax code or for my lawyer to maintain his license.

What do you think?

ThreeFigs
Sep. 22, 2009, 11:11 AM
Sorry, you pay. Your horse benefits from the clinic. Tell your trainer now if you're not willing to fork over the dough.

My coach regularly takes a client's horse to work with clinicians. Coach also shows this horse. The client pays the expenses, including trailering fees and hotel, if applicable.

Kudos to your trainer for seeking advice/affirmation from another professional. There are too many trainers out there who do not or will not do so.

Ellie&Werther
Sep. 22, 2009, 11:12 AM
My first reaction is that she should have been very clear with you in your initial conversation she wanted you to pay. With my trainer, she has a client with a young horse who pays to have her ride in clinics, but my trainer never asked to be in the clinic it was something the client wanted. My trainer's mare recently hurt herself, so she asked me if she could borrow my horse to do the fourth level demo at a Conrad Schumacher Symposium. Since she already paid to ride in the clinic with her mare she has not asked me to pay. My trainer also said she wants to put in more training rides on my horse coming up to the clinic (she normally rides him once a week), which I will most likely be charged for, but it is fine with me.

suzier444
Sep. 22, 2009, 11:14 AM
I thought that was common, with the idea being that the clinic would ultimately benefit your horse...I could be wrong though. I definitely know lots of people who do it this way.

FancyFree
Sep. 22, 2009, 11:20 AM
Kudos to your trainer for seeking advice/affirmation from another professional. There are too many trainers out there who do not or will not do so.

I agree. It was S.O.P. with my former trainer. I loved that she would always be willing to do a clinic. She'd just say "so and so is doing a clinic. Do you want to ride in it? Do you want me to ride?" There are trainers out there who are insecure and don't want you to do any clinics. I've paid for my trainer to ride my horse in a clinic, plus trailering fees and I also bought her lunch. It's also a lot of fun to watch your horse go and get input from a clinician. I was happy for my horse to have the experience.

Calhoun
Sep. 22, 2009, 11:49 AM
This relationship can be anything you want it to be, very similar to leasing your horse. Whatever works for both of you. I am going to be the wet towel in this thread and feel at the very least, it should be a shared financial responsibility, unless the horse's owner specifies she would like the horse ridden in the clinic. For example, if your instructor is schooling PSG movements on your horse but only has "proven" training to 4th level, then she should spilt the bill with you or pay the total cost. It is her responsibility to further her education. Yes, your horse gets the benefit, but I wonder how many wrong roads the horse traveled down before she sought advice. I would not want my horse to be the experimental PSG horse for my instructor. I've had this happen before and the end result was 6 months of stepping backwards to retrain.

This mentality of paying ALL trainer costs is another example of a lack of business skills in the horse world. What's even worse, the trainer gets to write off the cost of the clinic if she/he pays. The only way I would pay the total cost of a clinician for a trainer is if the trainer were my employee and riding with the clinician would benefit MY HORSE BUSINESS.

SillyHorse
Sep. 22, 2009, 12:11 PM
I pay a professional trainer to ride my horses. Recently she asked if she could work my horses with a clinician...

...What do you think?
I think the trainer pays, at least 50%. If Canterbury Court had asked her trainer to ride with the clinician that would be different. But the trainer asked to use Canterbury's horses so she could ride with the clinician. Why should Canterbury foot the bill, especially when it's her farm, her arena, and her equipment?

bort84
Sep. 22, 2009, 12:26 PM
I think it's typical for the client to pay. I've ridden other people's horses in clinics before, and they always paid. Generally, they approached me about the idea, so that made sense. If I were the trainer, I probably would have mentioned that so and so is coming to town for a clinic, would you like your horses to participate? Then I would ask if you would like me to ride them. If so, you would pay. If I needed to borrow a horse for a clinic for my own purposes (still as a trainer), I would likely offer to pay or split.

Your trainer may not have been as clear as she could have been, but it's not unreasonable for her to have assumed that you would pay for it since that's often the way it works. So don't get too upset about, just chat with her and say, "Ooooh, I didn't realize I'd be paying for the whole thing, and I'm not really sure that's in the budget this month." Or whatever. I don't see it as something to be too upset about. You two just got some wires crossed in the conversation = )

FancyFree
Sep. 22, 2009, 12:50 PM
Yes, good post Bort. Just tell your trainer how you feel. My trainer asked to take my horse to a clinic once at a time I was unable to go. If I can't go watch, no, my horse can't go either. She understood and took someone else. No biggie.

ThreeFigs
Sep. 22, 2009, 12:53 PM
Are you hosting the clinic for other riders besides your trainer? If so, you may be able to negotiate a reduced (even waived) fee for your horse & trainer. If it's only your trainer working with an outside expert, you're still on the hook for it.

Look into booking a day's worth of rides to make the trip worthwhile for the clinician and you may reap multiple benefits.

Pony Fixer
Sep. 22, 2009, 12:58 PM
I agree that usually the client pays if the trainer rides a client's horse in a clinic. In the past, we have sometimes split, or done another arrangement, usually because I said that either it wasn't in my budget that month and she really wanted to go, or because she asked if she could use my horse because she wanted to work on a specific thing with a specific clinician.

I agree that you should just tell you didn't know that was customary, and that you can't do that arrangement. An open dialogue is always best.

swgarasu
Sep. 22, 2009, 02:47 PM
It's fairly common for an owner to pay for a clinic for their horse and have the trainer ride. Personally, if I'm going to pay for a clinic, I'm going to ride in the clinic. :)

Gloria
Sep. 22, 2009, 02:53 PM
I don't think you should pay for your trainer's clinic fees, unless you ask her to ride in the clinic on your horse for you. The reasoning is exactly what you have stated.

Yes the horse will benefit but ultimate the one that benefits the most is the trainer. She learns how to work on certain kind of horse which will help her to work on other horses, which will help her to attract more clients.

To me, that is part of her continual education to better herself and the expenses should be passed on to All clients not just one.

To take it to extreme, she is borrowing your horse from you so she can ride in the clinic, which make it reasonable that she should pay you for using the horse.

Tiligsmom
Sep. 22, 2009, 03:15 PM
I'm with others who say, if you want the trainer to ride your horse under the clinician, then you pay. If the trainer wants to ride your horse to increase their skill, then they pay. If you both see mutual benefit, then split it.

I don't fully understand the relationships where trainer rides horse in training, clinics, and shows, but I know that's how some owners want it.

FancyFree
Sep. 22, 2009, 03:28 PM
To take it to extreme, she is borrowing your horse from you so she can ride in the clinic, which make it reasonable that she should pay you for using the horse.

I don't think I've ever had a trainer pay me for anything. Money has never gone from her to me. :lol:

My fellow barn mates were amazed when I got a free lesson for grooming for her at a show! I think I just caught her on a good day or before she had her coffee.

But that would have been nice. I'd happily lend out my horse.

rothmpp
Sep. 22, 2009, 05:18 PM
I got caught be surprise once by the trainer asking if she could take my youngster along to a clinic, which I thought was a good idea, just to get him used to being away from the barn. First mistake was I was out of town, so not able to attend myself. Imagine my surprise when I was handed a bill for not only the trailer split, but day care and a clinic session. It turned out she had an opportunity to ride in the clinic on him, and took it. I was expecting the trailer split, and you could maybe argue the day care with me, but I fully believe that the trainer purposely did not tell me about the slot in the clinic so that I would have no choice but to pay after the fact.

Ambrey
Sep. 22, 2009, 05:23 PM
My trainer pretty much expects to be paid when he's on my horse for any reason ;)

The situation where I could see not being charged would be a young/up-and-coming trainer and a very nice horse. For most of us, the trainer's time is paid time.

Canterbury Court
Sep. 22, 2009, 05:46 PM
Thanks for the replies. I think I should fill in a few details. The trainer is young (mid 20's), and has 6 -8 of my horses in full training. She also has other horses in training and gives lessons at her own farm. She has no formal dressage training but is a sensitive rider and really tries to improve herself. I give her lessons as well and do not charge for my time. I have worked with trainers for over 20 years. It has only been in this last year that I have had anyone ask me to pay for a clinic. At some level it feels as though the trainer is saying "I can't do the job you are paying me to do. Therefore you have to pay to train me so I can do the job you have already paid me to do." On the other hand I appreciate her willingness to learn and try new things. I also appreciate that I get a wider exposure for my horses by having them work well for a well-known clinician.
I will probaly split the fees with her (mutual advantage) and not expect a discount from the clinician even though she will be riding 5 horses for him. Just tack those fees on to the sale price lol!

Pony Fixer
Sep. 22, 2009, 06:18 PM
Well, that *is* a little different. Still, I would just be open and non-confrontational and just tell her the $ is not in the cards for whatever reason. You can always make everything case-by-case since you seem to have a not quite average trainer/client relationship.

Androcles
Sep. 22, 2009, 06:32 PM
It sounds like the clinic is more for the trainer, and for her to find out or confirm that she is heading in the right direction or looking for new ideas in training the horse. Therefore I would say it is primarily for her benefit in becoming a better trainer, and indirectly the benefit accrues to your horse, therefore I would expect her to be the one footing the bill, especially given that it was her idea and that everything else involved is yours.

Ambrey
Sep. 22, 2009, 06:36 PM
Thanks for the replies. I think I should fill in a few details. The trainer is young (mid 20's), and has 6 -8 of my horses in full training. She also has other horses in training and gives lessons at her own farm. She has no formal dressage training but is a sensitive rider and really tries to improve herself. I give her lessons as well and do not charge for my time. I have worked with trainers for over 20 years. It has only been in this last year that I have had anyone ask me to pay for a clinic. At some level it feels as though the trainer is saying "I can't do the job you are paying me to do. Therefore you have to pay to train me so I can do the job you have already paid me to do."

It sounds, then, like you're more in the latter category I listed :) But you don't think she's going to pay to have more than ONE of your horses in the clinic, do you?

Classical DQ
Sep. 22, 2009, 07:35 PM
I think when she asked if she could ride your horse in the clinic, that was the opportunity for you to speak up. It isn't unusual for the client to pay, but if it is not something you want to pay for, speak up. The ride with the clinician may benefit both of you. The trainer gets some helpful info (which everyone needs, no matter how much experience they have) and your horse benefits. I have shared the fee with my clients it it was a clinician I really wanted to get input from and the client just didn't feel they could afford the extra fee. I don't think that the trainer should just assume that the client pays for everything, especially if it was the trainer's idea! To sum up the whole situation though...I think you need to have more open communication with your trainer. Speak up!!! :)

FancyFree
Sep. 22, 2009, 07:41 PM
Canterbury Court I just looked at your site. You have some very nice horses. Maybe she should be paying you! ;)

I bookmarked it. :)

JWB
Sep. 22, 2009, 07:45 PM
Sorry.... I've always paid for my trainer's clinics on my horses AND when I was training for people, they often paid for me to ride their horses in clinics.

J-Lu
Sep. 22, 2009, 08:37 PM
I disagree with most posts here.

If your trainer wants to ride with the bigger-name clinician and approaches you about it, then the trainer pays for it. In fact, you could charge her to use your horse if you wanted to be nit-picky.

Trainers sometimes have this fantasy that the owners pay for all of their expenses. Your horse benefits from it...but the trainer benefits more. WAY more. The trainer is taking a lesson to improve her career and credentials and can later say "I trained with so and so"...and might use that to leverage increase in fees.

Now if you asked the trainer to ride in the clinic with your horse, that would be a very different story.

The trainer pays for the lesson, not you.

J.

FancyFree
Sep. 22, 2009, 09:09 PM
Trainers sometimes have this fantasy that the owners pay for all of their expenses.

It's not always a fantasy. Where I live, now and before in Orange County, my trainers always had a barn full of nice horses. If I didn't want to pay for them to take my horse to a clinic, fine. They would ask someone else. That's just the way it is around here. Not much you can do about it when there are people willing to pay, people who also consider it a compliment when the trainer takes their horse. Welcome to my world. :lol:

Carol O
Sep. 22, 2009, 09:17 PM
You pay.

J-Lu
Sep. 22, 2009, 09:25 PM
It's not always a fantasy. Where I live, now and before in Orange County, my trainers always had a barn full of nice horses. If I didn't want to pay for them to take my horse to a clinic, fine. They would ask someone else. That's just the way it is around here. Not much you can do about it when there are people willing to pay, people who also consider it a compliment when the trainer takes their horse. Welcome to my world. :lol:

OK, that is true! I believe you! Let me re-phrase. Not a fantasy...a serious perk to being a trainer....every cost is either paid for or a write off. I guess if the owner wants the horse to go...th eowner should pay. If the trainer approaches the owner, the trainer should pay or at least split the cost. But then there are trainers who are used to not paying for anything and expect the owner to pay for all. I guess it boils down to your particular relationship with your trainer. I personally find it tacky for a trainer to approach an owner they are not on contract with and ask them to pay for a clinic...but that's me!! :)

ThreeFigs
Sep. 22, 2009, 11:37 PM
It is always beneficial to get "a second opinion" (or a third, or a fourth...) when it comes to training. If this clinician is worth a darn, you both will benefit.

Sounds like, after you filled in more details, splitting the expense is a good idea.

atlatl
Sep. 23, 2009, 04:55 PM
I think it's negotiable as already noted. Always better to communicate in advance.

I had a slightly different experience. Trainer and I were both going to same clinic. I didn't pay her to "audit" my session to help incorporate clinician's input to my lessons and she didn't pay me to trailer her horse. A mutual arrangement that benefitted both of us.

Also, when she was called unexpectedly out of town on the second day, I didn't mind hauling her horse and tacking him up for the clinician to ride. Mainly I didn't mind because I hadn't felt like she had tried to take advantage of me.

molliwog
Sep. 24, 2009, 01:44 AM
I also think this is something that is negotiable and is best worked out up front between trainer and client.



When I take a horse in training, I always discuss this with the client in the beginning, and make sure I understand my client's needs and budget. I have been in situations where the client has paid for the ride, and situations where I have paid, but it is always clearly understood beforehand. I can't imagine asking a client to foot the bill for something after the fact.


Now that I have a horse in training (I'm in the midst of a pregnancy, and riding my own young horse is not in the cards for a few more weeks) my trainer and I have a clear understanding of what I am willing/able to pay for, and what I am not. We have a monthly budget in terms of what I am able to afford for training and clinics. Recently she had a chance to pick up an extra clinic ride due to a last minute cancellation- she knew she'd hit the limit of what we had budgeted, and felt strongly enough about participating on my horse instead of another, that she footed the bill for the last ride on her own.

Sithly
Sep. 24, 2009, 02:33 AM
I also vote for "negotiable." In this case, it would probably be fair to chip in at least the cost of a training ride towards her fee.

Alagirl
Sep. 24, 2009, 03:11 AM
very interesting....

While indeed the horse profits from the rides, the trainer does a lot more, can put it on her resume and buff the same - depending on the BNT.

So I am on the 'you asked, you pay' side of the issue. It seems I am just too dumb to see why the trainer has to get the money for the clinic from the client whom she asked if she could ride the horse. Unless it was a 'do you want me to ride your horse?' in that case...but noway the whole fee.

Kinda like if my dentist takes my Xrays to a convention and sends me the bill for the trip. Sure, I benefit from him getting smarter, but he profits more.

but a big LOL, on the unspoken expectation that the client is to pay the fee. If I pay the fee, I want to ride! :lol:

Sabine
Sep. 24, 2009, 03:49 AM
I disagree with most posts here.

If your trainer wants to ride with the bigger-name clinician and approaches you about it, then the trainer pays for it. In fact, you could charge her to use your horse if you wanted to be nit-picky.

Trainers sometimes have this fantasy that the owners pay for all of their expenses. Your horse benefits from it...but the trainer benefits more. WAY more. The trainer is taking a lesson to improve her career and credentials and can later say "I trained with so and so"...and might use that to leverage increase in fees.

Now if you asked the trainer to ride in the clinic with your horse, that would be a very different story.

The trainer pays for the lesson, not you.

J.

Well said and to the point. I resent trainers that think they can milk the AA to the bone. There is not necessarily that much benefit from that clinician for the horse...it's more like a team tag approach- and I have seen this become a weekly or monthly event- which spirals the cost of training quite a bit. Be careful and decide clearly what you want to do...again- I can only recommend the recent book by Tineke Bartels that clearly asks you to write down your goals and plans with every horse and in every aspect. Once you take the time to think it thru and set a budget to the effort- it will be much easier to say- Sorry - but that is not in my immediate plans and reject the request. Especially if it is presented without a choice...

Vesper Sparrow
Sep. 24, 2009, 09:50 AM
Depends on the situation. Last year, I paid my trainer's fees so she could ride my young boy in a dressage clinic because I wasn't far along enough with him myself. This year, I will be riding him.

I will, however, pay for her to ride in a couple of jumping clinics this year on him because, even though I don't jump over anything bigger than crossrails, I think it's a skill all horses should have at least a basic education in. An experience with these two very good clinicians is a good investment.

narcisco
Sep. 24, 2009, 10:19 AM
It's an industry standard for the owner to pay for the clinic, as the horse is going to be trained and will benefit greatly, especially if it is a young or green horse. We always get into long theoretical discussions if industry standards are right or wrong, but it doesn't change the fact. For the last 40 years or more, in America, that has been the norm.

If you pay for the clinic, you should not pay for your trainer to ride the horse in the clinic, as you would be paying for training twice.

Now, if the trainer is borrowing a schoolmaster to take the horse to a clinic where she will benefit more than the horse, then you might decide not to pay for the clinic or not to let her take the horse.

Or, you might consider it all your investment in the trainer's continuing education, which will benefit you and your horses. In that case you become both an owner and sort of sponsor, which many, many young trainers need. I thank my lucky stars when I was a young trainer that the owners sent me to as many clinics with the very best clinicians as possible.

In these tough economic times, it is understandable if you have to cut back on all spending and, if that is the case, just explain it to the trainer. I do not think trainers are trying to "bleed" the owners. When riding in the clinic, the trainer is spending her time on YOUR horse. I suspect she is looking for help so that she can advance YOUR horse further, not to add to her resume. This adds to both his training and his resale value. She needs to be reimbursed for the energy and effort.

It is the same when the trainer rides your horse at a show. You pay for her ride then. It may or may not advance her career.

You should have a discussion with the trainer about her goals for taking this horse to the clinic, who will pay for what and what future plans she has for the horse. The same discussions should be had for showing the horses.

Gloria
Sep. 24, 2009, 11:30 AM
If I have a horse in training, I already pay for my trainer to train my horse. I don't think she is entitled to ask me to pay "again" so she is able to train him. After all, if she is not capable, she has no business getting training fees from me at all.

Now I'm not saying the trainers should just eat up the expenses somehow. They should continue their further education by attending clinics or schools or something, and that expenses "should" pass on to clients somehow. The question is how.

What the trainers should have done is to have their "education" budget, and pass that budget to all her clients evently. I know, it is not a common practice in horse industry because most trainers don't have good business sense. They don't know their books and they don't budget. They end up having to ask the owner of the horse to boot in the bills. This practice is common in horse industry, does not mean it is the best practice though.

atlatl
Sep. 24, 2009, 12:03 PM
One might also say that it's the "industry standard" to gouge clients whenever possible. There's a reason the term "horse trader" is not a compliment and people are wary of those in the horse industry in general.

Why is there so much resistance to upfront clear communication? Not being clear up front, and billing the client after the fact is passive aggressive BS of epic proportions and very bad business in the long run.

This is not an inexpensive hobby and most AA's I know are professional women who are earning the money that supports their horse habit. The lack of professional behavior and ethics in the horse industry is a frequent topic of discussion as well as the appreciation for those seemingly few who do possess those qualities.

Janet
Sep. 24, 2009, 01:16 PM
It is commonly done. Much like paying the entry fees for a show.

But it is up to YOU to decide if you think it is worthwhile enough for YOUR HORSE to want to pay for it.

Zevida
Sep. 24, 2009, 03:21 PM
Exactly what Janet said. In my experience when you have your horse "in training" or "with a trainer", you pay for everything including the dry cleaning for when your horse slobbers on your trainer's jacket! ;) But seriously, anything that has to do with your horse is paid by you.

But, it is completely up to you what you want to pay for. You have no obligation to pay for your trainer to ride in a clinic or in a show. You are footing the bill, so it is easy to simply say "I'm sorry, I can't afford to pay for that this time."

Nojacketrequired
Sep. 24, 2009, 06:06 PM
Sounds like you pay.

This time.

I would definitely point out to her that you had misunderstood and although you'll pay for the clinic this time, if in future she wants to ride your horse in a clinic, it willbe at her expense unless you ask her to do it.

And, if you pay by the session for training, be sure she doesn't use the clinic as one of her training sessions.

NJR

sid
Sep. 24, 2009, 06:11 PM
What about paying the trainer of your horse who requests to take a weekly lesson to have their own trainer come in so they can lesson on your green horse? Would one consider it "industry standard" to pay for the trainers lessons, split that, or what?

narcisco
Sep. 24, 2009, 07:45 PM
It's your call, as Janet said, if you think it's worth it for your horse. If I were the trainer and the owner asked me to pay for the lesson, I would politely decline and take the lesson on my own green horse. On a green or lower level horse, I don't really advance my riding. I get good eyes on the ground, which helps the horse. If I have to pay for it, I will advance my own horse rather than someone else's.

If you want your horse brought along with your rider under her trainer, you should pay. If you don't want it, don't send the horse, but I wouldn't ask or expect the trainer to pay. If she has nothing else to ride and is desperate for a lesson, then she might offer and that's her choice.

Training horses is a team effort between owner, rider, clinician or uber trainer. Everyone needs to make the right decisions for the horse. Working out all the details in advance with clear communication is key.

I do not think it is industry standard to gouge the clients. When that is done, clients run. I think a professional rider who is spending time on someone else's horse deserves to be reimbursed, whether in cash or in continuing education credits.

That said, I will sometimes offer to ride a horse for free and pay the showing expenses if I am using it for my own ends: to get a certain score, to qualify for whatnot. I will sometimes pay for clinics if I am borrowing a client's horse who does not need the clinic, particularly if I want to school upper levels.

slc2
Sep. 25, 2009, 05:55 AM
I see from your website, you have a big business selling horses, and not just horses but lots of horses, and expensive purebred horses, 'for the Olympic disciplines'. There's foals and weanlings with no training on your website, selling for close to and over twenty thousand dollars. The horses with training on them mostly cost quite a bit more than that.

Paying people to ride your horses in clinics and paying for clinics is part of the expense of doing that type of business, and can raise the price of the horses with training substantially as well as make the difference between selling and not selling, and hence, the difference between making margin or not, and staying in business or not. That the person is young is irrelevant, if she's doing what she's hired to do and you approve of the quality of her work, it just means your training costs are less overall.

It is impossible to imagine how going to a clinic with a well known trainer would not have a positive effect on your business in a very immediate and very financial way.

There's only one case where I'd think it would be appropriate for the trainer to pay. That would be if the horses are never going to be sold or shown by you to promote your business, and are schoolmasters who are easy to ride and are fully trained with no issues that would be worked on at the clinic, and are just a lark to ride, and when asked, no one is going to divulge that the horses are from your farm. Your farm rig won't be parked at the clinic, no one will wear a farm jacket, completely incognito, and no one recognizes the horses or your trainer or associates them with your farm.

100% of the time, sending a horse owned by a breeding and sales business to a clinic advertises the farm they come from and gives the business an immediate and substantial benefit, for a price substantially less than paying for large display ads in publications, phone directories, etc. Seeing a horse and neatly turned out decent rider at a clinic is far better advertising than a display ad anyway.

mvp
Sep. 25, 2009, 10:09 AM
If I understand it correctly, the 20-something trainer has no formal dressage training, 6-8 horses horses (that seem to be very nice) owned by just one person who knows so much that she has given the trainer lessons. This is not your average owner/trainer relationship.

I think the owner is giving the trainer a really great opportunity, just by providing the horse and the facility. The trainer ought to pony up for the clinic as part of her own education.

On second thought, if you and your trainer can't see eye-to-eye, can I come work for you? I'm a little older, a little more knowledgeable and a whole lot more professional.

Gloria
Sep. 25, 2009, 10:09 AM
Why do people go to clinics? Why do people take lessons? To make the horse better? Yeah maybe. But HOW? By making the "RIDERS" better. Every time when I return from a clinic, I know we as a team are better. But not because the horses all the sudden become smarter or more brilliant, but because I as a rider become better and smarter. If I put another rider on my horse that was moving like a million bucks at the clinic, do you think he will automatically move like that? No Way.

If my trainer wants to take my youngsters to regular lessons and ask me to boot in the bill directly, I will tell her, "thank you very much but no". If I feel generous, I might allow her to use them for free in the hope that the lessons indeed will benefit the horses directly. Or more likely, I might charge her to use my horses so she can experiment on them, which might require me to undo some damages (trainers never make mistakes, right?).

Now I have no problem paying for trainers' education, indirectly, because when the trainer returns from the clinic, I expect her to be smarter and better, and I'm willing to pay for that expertise. That means, if she taks other people's horsese to clinics so she is a better trainer, I will be willing to pay in the terms of higher training fees. Why? because I will reap the benefit, even though other people's horses are the ones at the clinic..

narcisco
Sep. 25, 2009, 11:17 AM
This is not your average owner/trainer relationship.

It's not average, and it's a strange dual relationship that probably would not work for me as a trainer or owner. I wouldn't know where the power lies or who the authority is. It may well be healthier to have the trainer work with an outside trainer or clinician than the owner. I see that relationship as potentially fraught with misunderstandings and power struggles such as this.

slc2
Sep. 25, 2009, 11:44 AM
Absolutely.

FancyFree
Sep. 25, 2009, 11:56 AM
If I understand it correctly, the 20-something trainer has no formal dressage training, 6-8 horses horses (that seem to be very nice) owned by just one person who knows so much that she has given the trainer lessons. This is not your average owner/trainer relationship.

I think the owner is giving the trainer a really great opportunity, just by providing the horse and the facility. The trainer ought to pony up for the clinic as part of her own education.

On second thought, if you and your trainer can't see eye-to-eye, can I come work for you? I'm a little older, a little more knowledgeable and a whole lot more professional.

Exactly. She's a young woman who has been given a great opportunity. She could make her name on some of these horses. While the horse is going to benefit from going to a clinic, it sounds like it's more for the education of the trainer. It also sounds like the owner is very experienced and this particular clinic wasn't high on her list of priorities, something that the trainer wanted to do. So the girl should pay for the clinic in this instance imo.

It's a unique situation.