Dog Diarrhea- Good Update and Thank You!

[WorthTheWait95]

I've been having some trouble with one of my dogs lately and ended up switching her from Canidae/Fromm to Taste of the Wild grain free Bison formula. Once I did that the issues stopped (dandruffy coat, lethargy, itchiness). Now, however, shes been having some diarrhea issues. When she goes out on her walks during the day her stool is fairly normal, maybe occasionally loose but nothing bad. The last two or three nights though she has had an accident with mucous-y diarrhea. Its been pretty bad and shes had to start sleeping in the bathroom since apparently she doesn't know it's coming until it's too late and can't warn me to take her out.

I did swap her food twice in about a month (from Canidae/Fromm to Wellness Core and then to TOTW about eight days ago.

My question is: Do you think this is from swapping her food or something more serious like a parasite/bacteria/fungus....

[tle]

I don't know for sure and of course it if continues to happen you should probably seek vet advice, but the first thing I do for diarrhea issues is feed the dogs some yogurt and pumpkin. Yogurt for the probiotics and good bacteria that digestive systems need. The pumpkin (for whatever reason I'm not sure) helps firm up stools. I had digestive upset with the pup when I got him and switched from kibble to raw. First meals were my "puppy mash" which included both yogurt and pumpkin (not pumpkin pie filling, but real pumpkin). Helped tremendously and most dogs seem to really like it so it's not a hassle to feed.

[WorthTheWait95]

I don't know for sure and of course it if continues to happen you should probably seek vet advice, but the first thing I do for diarrhea issues is feed the dogs some yogurt and pumpkin. Yogurt for the probiotics and good bacteria that digestive systems need. The pumpkin (for whatever reason I'm not sure) helps firm up stools. I had digestive upset with the pup when I got him and switched from kibble to raw. First meals were my "puppy mash" which included both yogurt and pumpkin (not pumpkin pie filling, but real pumpkin). Helped tremendously and most dogs seem to really like it so it's not a hassle to feed.

Thanks for the tip! I was planning on picking up some plain yogurt but I'll add pumpkin to the list as well. As a poor college student I'd like to avoid the vet office call but of course she'll get whatever care she needs. I'd just like to rule other things out first.

[shakeytails]

While it doesn't address the cause, I'll give my dogs a Pepto-Bismol tablet if they get the runs for some reason. I'm not sure if Amodium is OK, so I stick with Pepto, which I believe is safe for almost all species.

[KnKShowmom]

I have used the pepto too - if you do the pumpkin/yogurt or pepto routine and it returns I would be looking at an intestinal bug. Ours had it when they were young and it was easy to clear up with antibiotics. We were housebreaking at the time so it made it extra special -

Good Luck!

[Auventera Two]

I would also add a 1/4 cup of yogurt or so a day and see if it stops. It may have been 2 food switches within a month. Even on high quality foods, that can upset them, though I have never had it happen.

Has your dog been wormed recently, or do you do Heartgard monthly? If no to both of those, worms can be an issue. I had that with one dog and had to do two doses of wormer, then things were fine.

The Bison formula is 32% protein, which is very high. Switching to such a high protein content too quickly might have caused some upset. The Pacifc Stream formula is 25% protein, and you may have to go with that one, if it doesn't resolve.

[NRB]

with grain free dog food, you need to feed less. If you feed too much you get loose stools. First I would try backing off the food a little bit at a time and see if that helps.

And when i switch foods (from 1 grain free food to a different grain free food) I take 2 weeks to do so.

FWIW my pup came to me from the breeders on Verus Puppy food. The breeder recounted a story of how when she started all of her dogs on the Verus they all got loose stools. So she called up the company to complain since she was convinced that the food was the cause. They told her to back off the food by 1/8 a cup. She thought they were nuts. But she did. And it worked.

[WorthTheWait95]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will definitely try feeding her less. As far as worming goes I don't know that she ever has been as she is a recent adoptee but she did get heartgard along with my other dogs on the first of this month. Definitely something to look into. I'm sure they'll do fecal/blood/heartworm tests (if not I'll request it) if I end up taking her in to the vet within the next few days.

So for the yogurt/pumpkin mixture should I JUST feed a 1/2 cup yogurt + pumpkin then slowly start adding the kibble back in or should I keep giving some kibble the whole time? She gets about a 1/2 cup of kibble/feeding (fed 2x/day) right now but I'll plan on cutting her back to maybe 1/4 cup for a while if the yogurt/pumpkin seems to work. Does that sound about right? Doesn't seem like much for a 25 lb dog but I'm not used to the high nutrition rations.

Thanks again for all the help!

[Petstorejunkie]

how many days did you take to transition from one food to the next? what proportions did you start with?

[jetsmom]

how many days did you take to transition from one food to the next? what proportions did you start with?

That's what I was wondering. You can't just switch them. Needs to be done gradually. I usually do it over a 2 week period.

I feed TOTW prairie formula, and haven't ever had a problem w/ my 3 dogs.

[WorthTheWait95]

First swap was two weeks. Second swap was more abrupt since I was near the end of a bag and happened in about a week.

I gave her pumpkin and yogurt yesterday and she didn't have any accidents last night although her stool was still a little loose when I walked her this morning. Hopefully this will fix the issue. I figured I would give her a few more days and if she starts having accidents again head into the vet on Monday.

[Auventera Two]

with grain free dog food, you need to feed less.

That's a great point!

Two of my dogs have never been on low-end dog foods now that I know better. But my old guy used to be on Science Diet and Iams years ago before I got clued in about dog foods.

Anyway, he went from consuming about 5 cups of dry kibble and 1/2 a can of wet a day down to 2 cups, plus 1/3 can of wet. He weighs 60 pounds.

The 75 pound Weim eats about 2 1/2 cups dry, 1/3 can wet.

The 100+ pound Pit eats 3 1/2 cups dry, 1/3 can wet.

These amounts are less actually than what the bag recommends, but they are as fat and healthy/energetic as they can be.

You definitely feed a lot less with premium, no-grain diets. :)

[NRB]

I also think that you feed less because the foods are so much more concentrated, no fillers. So the rich food gives them loose stools when they eat too much of it. Also with the rich grain free foods make sure to offer plenty of water.

[AiryFairy]

I'd put her on a bland diet for a while, boiled chicken and rice, until her gut calmed down and then gradually add kibble back in - sometimes the period of adjustment is longer than you'd think. Also you can give some slippery elm, in capsules or mixed into the food - it coats the gut and soothes it.

Can't stress enough the importance of keeping food bowls scrupulously cleaned - lesson learned the hard way. I wash them now after every meal with soap and a little bleach, and have not had a tummy upset in more than a year.

[Rubyfree]

Excellent advice here. Slippery elm really does help but it isn't cheap.
I don't think this is going to be the case for you as there are so many other potential causes, but a general fyi- our dane had severe diarrhea at least once a month for the first two and a half years of his life. We'd always get it under control via pumpkin/yogurt/bland diet/slippery elm/pepto, but it always happened again. Every fecal came back negative for worms. I finally took a cue from my horse life and hit both dogs with a whammy dose of panacur. Problem solved.

[mothermucker12]

be careful pumpkin is also used as a stool softener, and will turn their poop yellow, i tried it and my vet said "NO"...used boiled ground beef and rice...yogurt is fine but i wouldnt give 1/2 cup, maybe a tablespoon added to your reduced amount of kibble, but start slow with maybe a teaspoon of yogurt

[Rubyfree]

Pumpkin works both ways. That's why it's important to use a small amount- a tablespoon or two or three, depending on your dogs size- and just until things get firmed up again.
Yogurt, on the other hand, can be fed all the time. Probiotics = good.

[WorthTheWait95]

Just a quick update. She had been doing much better with the yogurt and pumpkin (about tsp of pumpkin and a tbsp of yogurt) and was actually starting to be a normal dog in that department.

I came home from classes today, though, to five or six diarrhea accidents in my room. :no::( Several of them had spots of blood in them (bright red so most likely from lower GI). She's heading into the vet tomorrow morning first thing because something just doesn't seem right about all this to me. Major bummer. Poor girl.

[Auventera Two]

Oh wow, that's weird. I was so bummed to read your update. Poor doggie. :( I hope you can get it figured out.

[NRB]

yikes, jingles for your pup, bloody diarrhea can mean Parvo. I guess it could mean other stuff I don't know about as well. Hope that the vets can help, and that it's Not Parvo.

[Mav226]

One of my dogs developed severe diarrhea after switching from Solid Gold Wolf King to TOTW. Google " taste of the wild" and "diarrhea". It's pretty common, apparently. Funny thing was, it took 3 weeks AFTER the switch before the diarrhea started.

Switch the food, I bet you'll see an improvement soon.

[LessonLearned]

I am cautious about any of the grain free foods. I have heard about these kinds of problems with the switch over. My one and only experiment in it resulted in my dog having the worst (i.e. wake you out of a dead sleep and make you run screaming from the room) gas that I have ever smelled.

I prefer a good quality single protein food like California Naturals -- we're on the lamb because one of my dogs is itchy on anything else. It is cheaper than the Wellness (which I also like) and my dogs have done great on it.

[WorthTheWait95]

Well the vet says he thinks it's a reaction to the food and pretty much told me to do the same thing you all did except to start with a 24 hr fast then 2-3 days of very bland food (boiled hamburger or chicken and rice) and then slowly add some food back in. He also said it would be a good idea to switch the food brand.

I'm a little leary of the rice since she was itchy on the canidae (with grain) but she had her first day of the bland diet today and seems to be doing pretty well. No accidents so far and she seems a little brighter. Luckily she's a good water drinker and isn't dehydrated in the least which I'm sure helps a lot in bounce back time. This whole situation is starting to get very frustrating! Thanks for all the help/advice! I'll have to start looking for another kind of food I suppose. I'm pretty bummed since my JRT is looking FANTASTIC on the TOTW so I don't want to switch her. Feeding two kinds of food is always a bit of a hassle but it looks like she def needs it.

[JLMet]

Use brown rice not white rice and good luck. I have a dog with PLE (Protein Losing Enteropothy) sounds like this is something your pup will pull through with the right steps but I feel for you on the runny stool problem. Your pup might also be suffering from a small bout of colitis since it can be easily triggered in dogs. If the stool doesn't change in a few days you can ask your vet about either Tylan or Metronidizol (sp?) I prefer Tylan as the other stuff never came close to working for me, but then again my dog is a totally different case. Good luck!

[Auventera Two]

One of my dogs developed severe diarrhea after switching from Solid Gold Wolf King to TOTW. Google " taste of the wild" and "diarrhea". It's pretty common, apparently. Funny thing was, it took 3 weeks AFTER the switch before the diarrhea started.

Switch the food, I bet you'll see an improvement soon.

I did as you instructed, but I don't see that this is "common." I found a couple links, but most of the links were referring to treating diarrehea by switching *to* TOTW. :confused: For any food you google, you're going to find positive and negative feedback. If every animal did great on one type of food, we'd only need one brand and one flavor.

Certain varieties of TOTW are very high protein - 32%. Dogs that have been on typical grain laden diets can't handle that much protein all at once. The switch over has to be very very slow. I'd say do it over 4-6 weeks.

Dogs that are switched to raw, are often transitioned slowly over 2 to 3 MONTHS because the raw diet is so high in protein.

I don't think the food itself is a problem, so much as dogs being switched to a high protein diet too quickly.

I buy TOTW at two different stores, and at both places I've asked if it's a really big seller. Both stores have given me a very energetic "OH YES!! Probably the most popular food we sell."

[pony grandma]

A holistic vet once suggested to feed a small amt of tripe. She sold it in a can, feed 2T/meal. May be cheap to buy and cook a batch.

[WorthTheWait95]

So I just got back from the emergency vet. :( She woke up in the middle of the night with a racing heart rate, vomiting, diarrhea and a fever. She was very weak, to the point that I couldn't get her to stand up or walk. They're keeping her for observation, running fluids and a few tests but I think it's safe to say this is NOT food related since she's been on the bland diet and this still happened. The other vet ruled out giardia and things like that but he clearly must have missed something. Wish us luck. I should get a call in a few hours with an update.

This little rescue dog is turning into quite the (expensive) project. She's such a sweetheart and is feeling so miserable. :(

[MistyBlue]

Poor dog...good thoughts for her and please do update here when you get the call.

[WorthTheWait95]

Poor dog...good thoughts for her and please do update here when you get the call.

Thanks, I will. It's just so strange. She was looking better on the bland diet and was playing normally all evening then all of sudden she just crashed. It's so weird how it comes in waves like that.

[Buffyblue]

Poor baby - I hope she's feeling better soon!

[IFG]

Thinking positive thoughts for your pooch.

[TheRedFox]

Best of luck to you both. I know its scary but I'm sure she is in very good hands.

[Bluey]

Guess they checked for coccidiosis?
That will deplete the thiamine and they can have general weakness and up to seizures.
One symptom is blood in loose stool.

I hope that is all, as it is easily cleared.:yes:

Leptospirosis can also have similar symptoms.
Good luck finding something and quickly.

[kookicat]

Any news? Sending jingles!

[starrysky]

Jingles - I hope they figure it out and she is on her road to recovery!

[WorthTheWait95]

No diagnostic news just yet but I just got off the phone with a tech and she said she's happily squeaking her squeaky toy in her kennel right now and she's interested in food. So at least it sounds like she's feeling a little better while we wait for her test results and hopefully a diagnosis. Sounds like they're testing for bacteria and things of that nature as well as running a blood panel. They took a rad of her abdomen on the off chance it was some kind of obstruction but it was clean. Thanks for all the good thoughts/wishes! What a scary night. I've never had a dog look so close to death before. She literally couldn't stand up. I'll update as soon as I know something.

[Rubyfree]

:( Fingers crossed for you.

[grayarabpony]

Hopefully this is just colitis, which can make a dog very sick -- sometimes even a bland diet won't cut it. Sounds like your dog got dehydrated, which would make her unable to stand.

[SOTB]

keeping my fingers crossed for you!

[WorthTheWait95]

Good news!
Well...not GREAT news but much better then parvo or something horrible!

It looks like the original vet either can't read a fecal slide or the lab he sent it to messed up because she is overrun with a pathogen and her good flora is way out of balance. So she's on antibiotics, a probiotic and we just have to wait for the lab results to tell us if she also has some sort of parasite (not ruling it out because of her unknown history as a recent rescue).

They're going to keep her for the day to finish running fluids and make sure she's doing okay but sounds like she can come home tonight. Thanks for all the good wishes! Now I guess I just need to wait and keep my fingers crossed all this works.

[Dune]

The other vet ruled out giardia and things like that but he clearly must have missed something.

:(


I could be way off base her, but I adopted a dog from the Humane Society and he had horrible diarrhea for quite some time before I finally took him to my vet who *put him on the correct dosage of antibiotics* and then his giardia (which I was told he did NOT have) was cured. Sometimes they can't tell definitively that a dog has it, but the treatment is your diagnostic in that case. Just a though....

[ksetrider]

WorthTheWait:

Jingles for your pup. Mine is going through the same thing! Diarrhea Wed and Thurs, gave her rice. Cleared it up and last night she made a mess of the dining room AND woke me up several times to go out. Went to the vet today. She couldn't produce a stool sample (all wiped out!) so we started her on antibiotic and a bland diet of boiled chicken and brown rice. Hopefully will get a stool sample this afternoon and get that tested.

[Auventera Two]

Wow, what a roller coaster ride!!! I'm so sorry to hear the poor pup ended up the emergency hospital, but its good that it sounds like they have some idea why this is happening. Please post an update soon! I keep following your story with your dog, hoping for good news. Hang in there :)

[Aimee Thanatogenus]

Jingling for a healthy outcome!

[Buffyblue]

Checking in for an update - hope it's a good one!

[WorthTheWait95]

Hey guys! Thanks so much again! So far so good. I have an evening exam today and they said she should be ready to be picked up after that. I'm excited to get her home and comfy in her own bed! The staff there has been great about giving me updates all day (stuck in class and work to pay for what I'm sure will be a large but worthwhile bill). Sounds like she's a little worn out from all the activity but the fluids have helped a lot it's just a matter of waiting for the antibiotics and probiotics to do their thing.

I really hope this is the answer for this girl. She's been through hell the last few months in terms of adjustment and the first part of her life was spent in a cage producing litters for a puppy mill :mad::no:. I'll be interested to see what they recommend for her diet until she's back on her feet. I'm leaning towards keeping up with the bland diet and slowly adding the kibble back in like I was doing so her system gets as much time as possible to adjust.

[MistyBlue]

Wonderful news! Thanks for the upate! :D

[MrWinston]

Sounds like she is on the mend. I've had mysterious bowel issues that were scary but cured by meds. Keep us updated, sending jingles for your girl.

[Mav226]

I did as you instructed, but I don't see that this is "common."
I buy TOTW at two different stores, and at both places I've asked if it's a really big seller. Both stores have given me a very energetic "OH YES!! Probably the most popular food we sell."

I didn't mean to imply that there was anything wrong with the food itself. When I googled it (admittedly, well over a year ago) I came up with quite a few issues regarding that brand and diarrhea. There are still a number of reviewers on google that say that. But--I should have pointed out the equal number who saw the symptoms improve when switching to TOTW.

All in all, I think it's a very high quality dog food that, unfortunately, doesn't agree with my dogs. I was simply offering my experience in case the OP had a dog with a similar digestive tract to mine. :)

[Pancakes]

Good news!
Well...not GREAT news but much better then parvo or something horrible!

It looks like the original vet either can't read a fecal slide or the lab he sent it to messed up because she is overrun with a pathogen and her good flora is way out of balance. So she's on antibiotics, a probiotic and we just have to wait for the lab results to tell us if she also has some sort of parasite (not ruling it out because of her unknown history as a recent rescue).

They're going to keep her for the day to finish running fluids and make sure she's doing okay but sounds like she can come home tonight. Thanks for all the good wishes! Now I guess I just need to wait and keep my fingers crossed all this works.

Not necessarily that the previous vet messed up.

A fecal flotation will only detect certain parasite eggs.

A fecal smear, properly stained, will show you the types of bacteria present.

I'll bet you $100 it's clostridial overgrowth. I had a few patients in the last few weeks with it presenting very similar to your dog. It happens for a variety of reasons and may not be apparent until the dog is pretty sick.

So don't go blaming your previous vet...honestly, clostridium and E. coli are normal bacteria in the gut that for a variety of reasons can just go nuts and overwhelm the GI tract, causing inflammation, releasing toxins, and making a dog pretty darn sick. It's not something you can pick up on a fecal float or even a fecal culture, because those things are supposed to be there normally. It's just when there are too many that it's a problem, and it means something needs to be done.

Just wanted to throw that out there.