BO feeding low quality hay

[luvmydutch]

I recently moved my yearling filly out of a barn where the BO and on-farm caretaker were beating her into and out of the barn...to a cute little backyard place where she has 24/7 turnout with a run-in shed and tons of room to roam (and nobody but me is handling her which at this point is great in my opinion). The place is super, BO is quite nice and it's so quiet and serene...and I am quite happy...with the exception of one rather big issue. The BO buys and feeds the crappiest hay ever. It's at best very low quality first cut just barely edible by horses...and most likely more like cow grade yellow hay. Each flake weighs practically nothing...so although she is on 4 flakes am and pm...she is dropping weight like crazy (although I have had him bump her TC Growth up to 5lbs and she's on corn oil). Before this I was rough boarding her and she was eating as much gorgeous timothy/alfalfa hay as she could stuff her face with. I'm worried that she's not getting the right nutrition..and not really sure if this is a big enough issue that I should consider buying my own hay and having the BO feed her that instead?

[aspenlucas]

If she was my baby, I'd buy some nice hay and have him supplement that when she was in her stall. I think you could get away with some lower quality as filler, as long as it's not moldy, but maybe supplement 2 flakes of nice hay at night? I'd do that before buying more grain.

[Threedaydream]

It's worth it! Buy your own hay. Nothing kills a horse's condition like crappy hay. No matter how hard you try to pump up the grain, it's not going to fix the problem (it will probably make new ones!).
I have experience with this! My horse is finally coming back after a year of struggling... and the difference is the hay.

[Gideon]

Buy your own hay, it's worth the extra $$.:D

[punky]

I have to buy my own hay and it's totally worth it! Pay now or pay later, you know:D

Good luck!

[Elfe]

Buy your own hay. That way you can choose whatever is nutritionally appropriate.
Good luck !

[luvmydutch]

Okay so looks like I'm right in being nervous about feeding junk hay. Would it hurt to supplement with really nice hay as Aspenlucas suggested? This does seem like the easiest option at this point...

[punky]

I think that would be fine and after a while if u don't like what you as far body condition then I would switch all together.

[camohn]

I would just add your own (good) hay to the "filler" she is getting now. Is she fed separately (not pasture board feed) so she IS the one getting your supplemented hay?

[mtngirl]

This is exactly what I've been doing for two years now...supplementing the crap hay the BO feeds with a higher quality hay...mixing the two so that my gelding has more to munch on (unfortunately - he has limited pasture turnout).

It took a little while for my guy to stop losing weight and maintain where I wanted hi, but it's worth it.

Good luck!

[okggo]

Triple Crown and other companies sell forages in bags, that might be an option for you. Also, would it be difficult to simply start the conversation with her? You - where do you get your hay? BO - xxxx You - my youngster is loosing a bit of weight and I'd like to try adding some richer forage, does your hay guy have any (alfalfa, alfalfa/grass mix, etc) hay we could try out on her....etc. She may have air ferns and buy the crap hay so they can eat 24/7 but not blow up like balloons, and may be totally open to getting a different grade for you. And if not, then you know, and you can always bring in the bagged hay, cubes, pellets, etc to help with it.

[kookicat]

Triple Crown and other companies sell forages in bags, that might be an option for you. Also, would it be difficult to simply start the conversation with her? You - where do you get your hay? BO - xxxx You - my youngster is loosing a bit of weight and I'd like to try adding some richer forage, does your hay guy have any (alfalfa, alfalfa/grass mix, etc) hay we could try out on her....etc. She may have air ferns and buy the crap hay so they can eat 24/7 but not blow up like balloons, and may be totally open to getting a different grade for you. And if not, then you know, and you can always bring in the bagged hay, cubes, pellets, etc to help with it.

I agree with this. :)

[luvmydutch]

I have broached the subject of feeding MORE hay with him before and he basically just thinks i'm nuts...lol. He's not a "horseperson" and as far as he can tell all the other horses are fat so she'll be fine and i'm just being "overprotective". What he doesn't realize is that I've got a super expensive yearling and if she develops deformities because of her diet...well let's just say there's alot at stake :). So I don't want to insult him by insinuating he feeds garbage hay, or look like a nutter because I have my horse on different grain (he feeds $10 a bag Ventura...I want her on Triple Crown) and now i want her on special hay...when everyone else at the barn is fine on what we've got. There's another baby there...but it's a baby arab/QH cross that is going to max out at 14.2 hands...totally different ballgame. I just don't know how to broach this subject again without coming across as insulting or insane haha. My horse's entire ribcage is visible at this point and she's on a ton of grain tot ry to fatten her up and I can't sleep at night. I hate boarding so much :mad:

[camohn]

Point him to your horsies ribcage and show him YOUR horsie is not fat whatever the other horses may look like. Perhaps telling him yours will be really big and needs the extra calories and nutients that easier keepers do not? But putting it as the others are "easy keepers" and yours in not it does not make it sound like it is his fault/get him insulted.....

[Dune]

If you're not comfortable talking with BO and they're not receptive, I'd say move. Otherwise just explain to him that your horse is a large breed that comes from "hard keepers"....make it sound like your horse is the "problem" instead of him.

[stoicfish]

I have broached the subject of feeding MORE hay with him before and he basically just thinks i'm nuts...lol. He's not a "horseperson" and as far as he can tell all the other horses are fat so she'll be fine and i'm just being "overprotective". What he doesn't realize is that I've got a super expensive yearling and if she develops deformities because of her diet...well let's just say there's alot at stake :). So I don't want to insult him by insinuating he feeds garbage hay, or look like a nutter because I have my horse on different grain (he feeds $10 a bag Ventura...I want her on Triple Crown) and now i want her on special hay...when everyone else at the barn is fine on what we've got. There's another baby there...but it's a baby arab/QH cross that is going to max out at 14.2 hands...totally different ballgame. I just don't know how to broach this subject again without coming across as insulting or insane haha. My horse's entire ribcage is visible at this point and she's on a ton of grain tot ry to fatten her up and I can't sleep at night. I hate boarding so much :mad:

Remember you do not need his approval on raising your horse. Why do you care what he thinks? It is simple, he either agrees to feed your horse what you ask or the horse gets moved. Done. Seriously. Do not apologize or justify anything – it is your horse and your responsibility. If you think you are right, why are you worried about his opinion? Chances are he will respect you more if you just tell him what needs to happen instead on doing it apologetically or feeling bad about it.

[Elfe]

If you can't get your baby fed the way you think is right, move her. I would try to have her in a place where there are other youngsters with similar needs and knowledgeable people looking after them. Ignorance has ruined a lot of horses !
Good luck !

[quietann]

Basically I agree -- see if he'll feed hay that you buy, have the conversation, and if he's resistant, you probably need to move.

I had exactly the opposite problem at my old barn, where my little Morgan mare was amongst big WBs and the hay was actually too rich for her. She's not an easy keeper, but the rich hay caused some laminitic changes in her hooves. Luckily I have a friend who had excess, lower quality hay so I bought it on my own and the BO fed it to her and took the cost of hay off my board bill, and that took care of the hoof issues.

Various BOs and other horse experts I've talked to would feed medium-quality hay, free choice, rather than the rich stuff.

[luvmydutch]

I'd like to keep her where she is for now for a few reasons...#1 being that I have had a HORRIBLE time at other boarding barns...whether it was she was having her humped by every gelding at the barn in herd turnout, then the next barn the guy was again...not a horse person...he'd leave them in all day if he wasn't going to be home (he was never home) so she was inside standing around on cement floors all day every day. Needless to say we weren't there more than 3 weeks as I could see the writing on the wall. The next place we moved to seemed great until I discovered she was being literally beat with a whip into and out of the barn every day...without giving me any sign that she was having a problem (she was afraid of a dog crate that was placed near her stall with feral cats living in it). So at least where she is now she's safe and I'm the only one handling her and she gets the grain I want to feed and she's got enough turnout...this hay thing is really the only issue. We have slim pickins' for barns in my area...I have yet to find a breeding farm with a pasture filled with other yearlings. I think I do need to care less about what the BO thinks about me and more about the well being of my horse.

[Hampton Bay]

Is she being fed twice a day? What about having the BO add some alfalfa cubes or pellets to her feed? I have done that in the past for my hard-keeper mare who lived amongst air-ferns. The BO had no issues with it. I provided the tub to put them in a convenient place, plus a scoop. He just put them right into her feed tub along with her grain. Since they have the stems, it does take a while for them to eat the cubes, so it also gives them a bit more to chew on.

[luvmydutch]

Oh the alfalfa cubes sounds like quite a simple solution. What are there disadvantages/advantages to supplementing alfalfa cubes? Would they be preferable to something like hay stretcher? Do they add nutrition? Triple Crown carries 3 types..Alfalfa, Forage and Grass. Does anyone know the advantages/disadvantages of each? Thanks so much everyone!!

[Kaleigh007]

Unless you are just renting a stall ,I would say there is not much you can do but buy your own hay. Also take into consideration that if the bo has to custom blend feed etc for your baby then he will be obligated to do it for the rest of the barn and that usually is NOT how it works at a boarding farm. If you don't like the feed,hay,blacksmith,vet, blah blah blah then I'm sure you know the saying "don't let the door hit you in the arse".

[luvmydutch]

Oh and also what are the advantages/disadvantages of buying these bagged forages vs. buying and supplementing with better quality bales of hay? Is this more cost effective or just easier?

[luvmydutch]

Hey Kaleigh, I don't think he'd mind supplementing anything for me...he's a really sweet older guy. If I could make his life easier, however, buy getting cubes he could toss in with her grain it seems to me that would be the best option for everyone...unless there is some drawback to feeding the bagged forages that I'm not seeing? Anyone? Bueller? :-P

[Kaleigh007]

You are lucky then Dutch...ever hear of Denji??? It is bagged chopped alfalfa hay mixed with molasses etc. I used to get it at Blue Seal.

[luvmydutch]

hmmm denji would also be an option to explore. Anyone have an opinion on any of these either way?

[stoicfish]

I have looked into feeding alfalfa cubes this winter due to a hay shortage in my area. So for what it is worth, this is what I have found. Price it is about 25 cents a pound, as in comparison to 10 cents for square bale and 6 cents for round (at a cost of $5/square and $75 for round). Nutrition should be on the bag and consistent. The below link shows all the benefits. One other thing is choking, while rare is more likely with processed food. Search this site for choking info, as there are a couple of posts.
http://www.ca.uky.edu/AGC/pubs/id/id145/id145.htm

I am sorry someone was mistreating your girl and I am glad she is at a better barn. In my area I can get a 1100 pd bag of cubes for $240 and you could put it beside your paddock, so it would be easy for the gentleman feeding her. Just remember to up it up on something and cover it.

[fivehorses]

I would not feed cubes of any type unless they were soaked. Too much risk for choke. Plus in winter you want as much water as possible going into your horse.
So, unless he will soak them, I'd go with triple crown safe starch...like dengie but without the molasses.

[luvmydutch]

Okay I'm going to go the dengie route. My question...should I feed straight alfalfa (higher protein/nutrient content) or the Low Starch version from Lucerne Farms. I have heard both sides of the OCD coin that A) starch causes OCD and that B) protein causes OCD...so the alfalfa is high in both...is this an issue?

[stoicfish]

Okay I'm going to go the dengie route. My question...should I feed straight alfalfa (higher protein/nutrient content) or the Low Starch version from Lucerne Farms. I have heard both sides of the OCD coin that A) starch causes OCD and that B) protein causes OCD...so the alfalfa is high in both...is this an issue?

I have never seen a recent research paper that claimed either protien or starch in itself is in fact a cause. I have read that there is dietery links based on overfeeding and/or lack of nutrients during times of rapid growth, but at the end it is the rapid growth.

"Prevention of OCD can be difficult due to the multifactorial nature of the disease. Owners should try to develop a balanced feeding program with a goal of providing proper trace mineral amounts and preventing excessive growth rates. Consultation with a veterinarian and laboratory feed evaluation may be necessary. Although understanding of the role of genetics in the development of OCD is still incomplete, more information concerning this factor will likely be forthcoming in the coming years."

If she is really thin, I think you don't have to worry about overfeeding, at this point.


http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=14266&eID=140558
http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/HealthConditions/LargeAnimalEquineTopics/OsteochondritisDissecans/
http://www.myhorse.com/health/feeds/is_alfalfa_a_wise_choice.aspx#top (check out the myths)

[luvmydutch]

Wow those were some really great articles! I'd say her body score is a 3 right now...ribs highly visible but the rest of her isn't too bad...she's not emaciated just moderatly thin. I've decided to go with the Hi-Fiber Gold Dengie from Lucerne farms. That article on straight Alfalfa sort of turned me off to the alfalfa cubes. I am so excited that my horse is finally going to be safe and healthy at this barn...it's such a relief :cool:. I can finally sleep at night and stop worrying about her yay! Thanks sooo much eveyrone for your advice!

[Mozart]

Others gave you some feeding advice so I will veer in a different direction....I realize your current situation is better than what you came from but...I think you should continue to keep your eyes and ears open for an even better one.

Anyone who doesn't recognize crap hay and doesn't get what the fuss is about when you are concerned about proper nutrition for a growing sport horse...well, let's say I foresee that in a few months you will feel the need to look around again. I know sometimes we have to pick between two less than perfect choices so all I'm saying is....keep looking for Option C... a place where the owners have other young horses and know what is involved in looking after them. Just my friendly suggestion. :)

[luvmydutch]

Agreed Mozart...my feelers are always out there ;-) I'm so afraid of people now though...I will admit. It's almost like...the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know sort of thing. I also feel so bad for her that she's been bounced around so many times these last few months. It would be nice for her to be able to just settle in and be herself. But I am always checking ads in the area hoping something will pop up...I'd move her in a heartbeat to a better farm especially if they had other babies for her to play with :).