Tips for a "quirky" OTTB? *LONG!*

[rideforthelaurels16]

I wasn't sure exactly where to put this, so here it is ;)
My trainer recommended that a local woman contact me the other day - she just bought a 5 yr old Thoroughbred who has been off the track for 12 weeks. When she tried him out, he was very quiet and well-behaved. He did, and still does, have a puppydog personality on the ground. He's regressed terribly u/s saddle, however. Now, before she had him, she had a huge Perch/QH who is very strong, and knows it. He's young and green, and the woman is not hugely experienced and had a double hip replacement. She sold him on because she simply was getting pushed and pulled around, and couldn't ride him. Now she has this guy and my thought is that her nerves from her last guy are still there and being picked up by the thoroughbred. She's paying me to ride him now, because she's afraid to, so I went up there for the first time yesterday.
First, he wouldn't stand still for mounting. She held his head and every time I went to mount he jumped away. Finally I just kind of hopped up mid-jump and grabbed a little mane lest he start bucking right away. He was very tense and although there were no bugs, he would twitch his muscles, bite at his chest, and kick out. He was also shaking his head a lot.
At this point I would have just liked to get him FORWARD. Just trotting around, nothing hard. But I literally could not get him moving - if he took a step he would then plant a hind foot and spin - not just once, but until I was dizzy. It was always to the right, so I kept my crop on his right shoulder and managed to pretty quickly stop that habit with a smack and a strong left rein and right leg.
The next thing was the bucking - not huge bucks, but long series of them in which he would also twist his body around. Fun stuff. I had him stand - just stand, because he would NOT do that - for about ten minutes, praising him very lavishly and scratching his neck when he stopped fidgeting and kicking. After that ten mins he let out a biiiiiig sigh and I felt his back drop. I had him walk in a 7 metre circle, then an 8, so on and so forth until we were going about 30 metres. Then he got a little tense again and did a little rear, so I made him stand and then do a few more calm circles. I let him be done on that, as it had been about an hour and he had come back down very quickly from his mini tantrum. I did feel I had made progress, just "baby-steps" kind of progress.
Now, his owner feels he's being a brat. I got the impression that he wants to be in charge - but then, he has no idea what to do to keep himself safe that he's very insecure. I think there's a lot of confliction there, and having his owner be terrified of him isn't really helping. I'm going to continue to ride him and see if I can help him overcome this - I'm not afraid of him; I actually feel pretty bad for the little bugger. I want him to be able to be friends with his rider.
Whew! Now here's the point of the novel; I would love some of your opinions/tips! I've ridden OTTBs and young horses quite a lot but have never encountered one quite like this. His owner is going to try to get his former owner to buy him back, but in the meantime would like me to ride him. I'm glad to, but I'd like to make some progress!! Thanks for any advice you may have! :)

[mzpeepers]

First of all, 12 weeks off the track is a bit early to put the horse in full time work. They need down time. A few months of down time.
Secondly, this guy sounds like he has pain issues. Have a vet check him out thoroughly before doing anything. Could be poor saddle fit or could be something more serious.
And thirdly, who in the heck sold a green OTTB to an inexperienced rider with fear issues?????

[Cammie]

He's not being "quirky", he's behaving like an OTTB fresh off the track. He doesn't understand what you want, and is frustrated and acting out in response. Horses at the track don't stand for mounting, the rider gets thrown up as they walk. He has no clue that he's supposed to stand quietly at a mounting block, because he's never experienced that before. Horses at the track don't waste time standing around and walking in 7 meter circles- he's expecting you to get on and GO. You should look up some of the excellent previous threads that have been posted here on COTH about what to expect with a horse straight off the track.

Don't blame this behavior on the horse- he literally has no clue what you are asking him to do. All of your signals and cues are a foreign language to him right now.

[rideforthelaurels16]

First of all, 12 weeks off the track is a bit early to put the horse in full time work. They need down time. A few months of down time.
Secondly, this guy sounds like he has pain issues. Have a vet check him out thoroughly before doing anything. Could be poor saddle fit or could be something more serious.
And thirdly, who in the heck sold a green OTTB to an inexperienced rider with fear issues?????

I agree. If it was my horse I would just turn him out for a while. I did mention to his owner that getting him looked at/possibly adjusted may help. I don't think she had him vetted or anything. After I rode him, I checked for soreness on his back and found nothing except very tight muscles that he looooved having pressure put on! As for your question...uggh, I do not know :/

[LuvMyTB]

IMO--give him another 3-6 months off. This horse clearly has not come down from track life yet--sounds like he is scared $hitless and has no idea what you're asking of him.

Frankly, it does not sound like you are very experienced with OTTBs. Most of them have NEVER had to stand still to be mounted and will squirt away if you try and use a block to get on. Generally, you would either a) teach him how to stand BEFORE you start riding or b) get a leg up the first few times you ride.

The bucking/spinning could also indicate pain on top of fear. Have his feet been done? Teeth checked? Chiro/massage? Many horses come off the track very bodysore.

Finally--what is this horse being fed? What is his turnout situation like? On the track they are fed TONS of grain with no turnout in order to keep them "high" and ready to run. When they get to the farm, they need a slow intro to turnout, gradual feed changes, etc.

Bottom line--I wouldn't even attempt to ride this horse. You should encourage the owner to forget about riding for 6 months and suggest she work on groundwork/desensitization so that he can relax & they can build some kind of relationship before anyone attemps to retrain him.

Either that, or she should sell him to someone who a) is not afraid and b) knows how to deal with OTTBs.

[rideforthelaurels16]

He's not being "quirky", he's behaving like an OTTB fresh off the track. He doesn't understand what you want, and is frustrated and acting out in response. Horses at the track don't stand for mounting, the rider gets thrown up as they walk. He has no clue that he's supposed to stand quietly at a mounting block, because he's never experienced that before. Horses at the track don't waste time standing around and walking in 7 meter circles- he's expecting you to get on and GO. You should look up some of the excellent previous threads that have been posted here on COTH about what to expect with a horse straight off the track.

Don't blame this behavior on the horse- he literally has no clue what you are asking him to do. All of your signals and cues are a foreign language to him right now.

I'm not trying to blame it on the horse - like I said, I initially tried to just get on a let him move forward. I kept it very simple. He was w/t/c when his current owner bought him - obviously in a green manner, but the trainer who had him said he was happy and reasonably well-behaved considering his greenness. Now he is unhappy and doesn't trust the person on his back, so I did the calm walking thing to let him just take a deep breath and relax. It was when I was doing that that I actually felt him relax his back and calm down.

[LauraKY]

We specialize in retraining OTTB's. We like to give them a minimum of 3 months off and prefer 6 months to a year. Completely changes their attitude. They need to learn how to be a horse. Check for ulcers too. A pretty high percentage of OTTBs will have an ulcer problem.

[rideforthelaurels16]

IMO--give him another 3-6 months off. This horse clearly has not come down from track life yet--sounds like he is scared $hitless and has no idea what you're asking of him.

Frankly, it does not sound like you are very experienced with OTTBs. Most of them have NEVER had to stand still to be mounted and will squirt away if you try and use a block to get on. Generally, you would either a) teach him how to stand BEFORE you start riding or b) get a leg up the first few times you ride.

The bucking/spinning could also indicate pain on top of fear. Have his feet been done? Teeth checked? Chiro/massage? Many horses come off the track very bodysore.

Finally--what is this horse being fed? What is his turnout situation like? On the track they are fed TONS of grain with no turnout in order to keep them "high" and ready to run. When they get to the farm, they need a slow intro to turnout, gradual feed changes, etc.

Bottom line--I wouldn't even attempt to ride this horse. You should encourage the owner to forget about riding for 6 months and suggest she work on groundwork/desensitization so that he can relax & they can build some kind of relationship before anyone attemps to retrain him.

Either that, or she should sell him to someone who a) is not afraid and b) knows how to deal with OTTBs.

She is trying to sell him back to his former owner, who, from what I gather, has a constant flow of OTTBs in and out of her barn. I'm hoping that works out for her. The reason I mentioned the mounting thing is because I was told he normally stands stock-still for mounting. Right now he's being fed 2 qts twice a day and is turned out with a few other horses. This change was made with the last owner. Thanks for your tips - I do think this horse will be a nice guy in the right situation and I'd love to see that happen for him.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Great advice from everyone. And I agree - get the poor guy checked out. Could be poor saddle fitting, could be other issues, could be a whole bunch of things combined.

[Bogie]

Probably a good idea if the trainer will take him back. 12 weeks off the track is no time at all and if you haven't had experience restarting an OTTB, it can be intimidating.

When I first got my OTTB he got very anxious when I mounted. I could feel his muscles bunch up and he felt like he was going to explode.

I used a ground walker to hold him, got on as quickly as possible and kept him on the lead line with a walker the first few times I got on him. He's a smart boy and after a few tries he figured out that having me ride him was safe. Even so, it took quite some time to train him to stand quietly (by himself) so I could mount him from a block.

He wasn't being bad; he just didn't have a clue. It sounds like this guy is also confused and, given the bucking, perhaps in pain. Has anyone checked that his saddle fits?

Even if this woman's horse was w/t/c with a professional trainer, changing riders (especially if he's gotten her a bit scared) will put him right back to straight off the track status.

[Petstorejunkie]

i'm relieved to hear that the owner realizes this is a mismatch. in the meantime if he is to be worked it should be on the ground like he's never been started before. if he were in my care i'd start with RP work and move on to long lines where he'd stay for probably 30+days.
just because a horse has been sat on doesnt mean he's been ridden and understands what you want. go back to basics

[danceronice]

My OTTB spent YEARS learning to stand to mount and he was never really happy about it. But the bucking sounds like pain.

[caffeinated]

We specialize in retraining OTTB's. We like to give them a minimum of 3 months off and prefer 6 months to a year. Completely changes their attitude. They need to learn how to be a horse. Check for ulcers too. A pretty high percentage of OTTBs will have an ulcer problem.

ditto to Laura (especially re: ulcers).

Sounds to me like he's physically uncomfortable, and also has picked up a healthy dose of confusion from not understanding what his current owner wants him to do.

[rideforthelaurels16]

Thanks for all the advice, guys! :) Fingers crossed on him going bacl - if that doesn't work out hopefully his owner will put the money into getting him checked out. I hadn't thought of ulcers- I'll mention that to her as well.

[Flying Hippotamus]

I don't always give a horse down time off the track. I got a 5 year old right from the track and she was great. So happy (tho clueless) to be doing easy stuff. But there was a progression of training to new work. Some might need down time, certainly if they are sore in anyway, maybe this guy is. But like someone said you are speaking a foreign language to him. How many times did you or owner hand walk him in that circle before you expected him to do it under saddle. Any lounging? Does he know verbal cues? My neighbors must have thought I was nuts because before I trail ride, I trail hand walk and trot. It does sound like a bad situation and he shouldn't be trained by someone who thinks he's being a brat.

One other thought about down time - They enjoy it! They need training to know they aren't in permanent retirement. If I had one that needed time off I might move him to a new barn when I was ready to start.

[EqTrainer]

I would recommend that the owner send the horse to someone who has extensive experience with OTTB's. The whacking with the crop? Has got to stop. You just cannot do that. As a trainer, when you are overfaced or don't understand how to fix something, you owe it to the horse and the owner to tell them to find someone else. I personally recommend Margaret at Mapleshade Farm (posts here as Mapleshade). Not sure she takes horses in training but it never hurts to ask.

Not trying to harsh but really... they don't know how to stand and whacking him w/a crop like that is only going to make things worse. Yes, all horses need to go forward... but that is one thing most OTTB's do just fine. So something is really wrong here.

[Jleegriffith]

Sounds like this horse ended up in the wrong hands. I start many ottb's and many of them I get on within the first week they arrive just for one intitial test ride. Then I give them a month to two and then get started. It all depends on the horse, soundness and their mentality. Each horse should be treated as an individual by someone qualified enough to figure out what that particular horse needs.

Feed program, teeth,farrier, turnout, chiropractic, saddle fit, ulcers and more can all come into play and you need to know what to look at. Often you have to address every single one of these things above to create a happy horse who is willing to work. Not always the case but can be.

Most racehorses don't know squat about standing at the mounting block. That is why most of us who do this for a living have qualified help. I don't get on any ottb without a helper the first few times. Yes, I do stand on the mounting block but once my foot goes up that horse starts walking while I gently settle down. The quickest way to create a tense horse is to force it to stand at the mounting block. Unless you have done quite a bit of retraining they don't know what you are asking. Some do and some don't:lol:

Some of them do understand forward but you would be suprised how many don't. Again if they really don't have a forward button a helper can work wonders or good old lunge sessions. Did they somehow go out of favor? It could be an issue with contact which is something many of them have. You have to be confident enough to drop the reins and let them go forward even if it is an unbalance forward.

Regardless, it doesn't sound like his owner is going to be a match with horses with these issues. They could all be minor issues but he needs some qualified training at this point.

[Personal Champ]

The horse sounds like he is having pain issues somewhere. He needs to be evaluated by a vet.

I have extensive experience with OTTBs. I just sold one last week and the other is being vetted tomorrow. Both 3 years old, too slow. Off the track since May. They had 3 months let down, and 6 weeks training. Both are w/t/c and jumping small stuff. Neither stands stock still for mounting - you can get on the block, put your foot in, they then walk calmly away as you swing up. And that is fine by me. I agree with the previous poster who said they had one that never stood - that would be my 17 year old, who raced til he was 9. You want to fight with him over standing, cause I don't.

When let down, they are wonderful. When confused or in pain, you can't blame them for their behavior.

[imapepper]

Most racehorses don't know squat about standing at the mounting block. That is why most of us who do this for a living have qualified help. I don't get on any ottb without a helper the first few times. Yes, I do stand on the mounting block but once my foot goes up that horse starts walking while I gently settle down. The quickest way to create a tense horse is to force it to stand at the mounting block. Unless you have done quite a bit of retraining they don't know what you are asking. Some do and some don't:lol:

It's a hard habit to break for people too :lol: I rode on the track for quite a few years and then worked for a place where I mostly rode horses coming off the track. My worst habit is letting them walk off from the mounting block. I actually feel more comfortable getting on as they are walking off because I have been doing it for years.

Some of them do understand forward but you would be suprised how many don't. Again if they really don't have a forward button a helper can work wonders or good old lunge sessions. Did they somehow go out of favor? It could be an issue with contact which is something many of them have. You have to be confident enough to drop the reins and let them go forward even if it is an unbalance forward.

Exactly.....they don't really understand leg= forward. The harder you clamp your leg on to try to get them to go.....the more likely you are going to get a reaction similar to the one that you are describing. I think that this poor guy is behaving the way he is because the woman who bought him was such a mismatch. If she was coming off of a draft cross that was a bully, she is probably used to having to use way more leg and hand then this poor guy can deal with at this stage of his career.

Regardless, it doesn't sound like his owner is going to be a match with horses with these issues. They could all be minor issues but he needs some qualified training at this point.

Yep....this guy would be much happier in a different program. The current owner would probably do herself a big favor by shopping for something that is already going and can help her regain her confidence. This combination doesn't sound good for either party.

[tenacity]

It's a hard habit to break for people too :lol: I rode on the track for quite a few years and then worked for a place where I mostly rode horses coming off the track. My worst habit is letting them walk off from the mounting block. I actually feel more comfortable getting on as they are walking off because I have been doing it for years.


Same here! I guess my TBs have trained me! We "pause" at the mounting block and they walk forward as I swing up. Now, if I ride a horse that stands while I mount, I feel really clumsy! Not used to that lack of forward motion!

Regarding the OP, I do believe that each OTTB is unique and may require a different program. Agree with others that this one needs to go way back to the basics.