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Oldenburg Mom
Sep. 18, 2009, 09:33 PM
Just a question for all those who regularly clinic—it doesn't matter with who—a couple of questions:

Why do you do this?
What do you EXPECT to get out of it?
What do you ACTUALLY get out of it?
Why do you choose who you choose?
Who would be the one person you wouldn't pass up in a million years?

I'm just asking this question for general education ... not for any specific reason.

And thanks, very much, for your answers.

easyklc
Sep. 20, 2009, 10:26 PM
Why do you do this?
To get out of my comfort zone, puts new eyes on my riding and a chance to meet others who are working hard like me. I go to eventing camp every year and it is by far the best training I get all year. Just really pushes my limits. I always love the dressage work I do at camp. It makes the jumping that much easier when your horse is balanced and supple.
What do you EXPECT to get out of it?
New ideas, new tools for my toolbox and new feedback to work on. I expect to be taught, not over praised or patronized.
What do you ACTUALLY get out of it?
Frankly my strategy is always to go into it with a fresh, open-minded attitude that no matter what happens I will learn something new that will help me in some way no matter how insignificant at the time. If I cry I know it was worth it!
Why do you choose who you choose?
I use recommendations from friends and word of mouth. I like to ride with those who actually compete, have a true love of the sport and push me enough to make me be a more thoughtful rider. The camps are always taught by experienced, well-known coaches and riders. I have had a few not-so-great instructors, but I still learned something valuable even if the teaching was less than what I expected.
Who would be the one person you wouldn't pass up in a million years?
Steuart Pittman, Jane Savoie, Lucinda Williams, Jimmy Wofford, Lendon Gray, & my current trainer. I can't pick just ONE. :D There are so many great ones.

I'm just asking this question for general education ... not for any specific reason.

And thanks, very much, for your answers.[/quote]

Pony Fixer
Sep. 20, 2009, 11:44 PM
Just a question for all those who regularly clinic—it doesn't matter with who—a couple of questions:

Why do you do this?
What do you EXPECT to get out of it?
What do you ACTUALLY get out of it?
Why do you choose who you choose?
Who would be the one person you wouldn't pass up in a million years?

I'm just asking this question for general education ... not for any specific reason.

And thanks, very much, for your answers.

I love to clinic. I love to get my horse off the farm, I love fresh eyes and perspectives, and learning new roads to Rome.

I expect a respectful clinician that takes me seriously, pushes us and shows us the way. I expect to hear their perception of our strengths and weaknesses and how to highlight and fix same.

So far, I have actually gotten what I expected. There are some clinicians whose "systems" have not necessarily worked for my horse, but there is always something to learn. The best are those that can adapt their methods to you, not necessarily vice versa.

I chose who comes around! ;) I will drive a bit, but I can only go so far, right? Luckily, in my area, there are lots of opportunity to ride with many good people.

I'm riding with Cesar Parra this fall. Can't wait. I would ride with Steffen (again) in a heartbeat. Not that it will ever happen, but I'd sell my mom to ride with Zeilinger. In general, I will give anyone a try, there is not one end-all, be-all.

Oldenburg Mom
Sep. 21, 2009, 09:23 AM
Thank you both for replying. I was beginning to think I had six heads ... asking such basic questions that everyone thought I was an idiot. Ok, they still may think I'm an idiot (:lol:) but your answers are dispelling the 6-heads theory.

I'm asking as I have a young horse that *maybe* I'll be able to send to a clinic. I'm holding my breath,... I don't know if he will get in or not. But I'm hopeful. My horse is 5, so it's not like the clinician can work on passage and piaffe. But I guess I'm hopeful that both he and his trainer will be able to walk away with something,...even if it's just "you're doing great, just continue."

I'm just not sure I've got the right perspective ... that's why I'm asking.

Pony & Easy (or anyone else for that matter) have you ever taken a youngster?

Dressage.For.Life.
Sep. 21, 2009, 12:35 PM
Why do you do this?
I did regular clinics (1x month, but my horse was very recently diagnosed with a bone spavin) as I felt I could benefit more from riding with a retired "R" judge once a month than doing weekly lessons with a local trainer.

What do you EXPECT to get out of it?
I expect to work on some of the things I want to improve on as well as things they see that need improvement, to mentally feel that I'm getting somewhere, and I expect the clinician to teach me not based on age (junior rider), but the way I ride and the way that they would teach an adult.

What do you ACTUALLY get out of it?
I get the feeling again that I'm getting somewhere, I get to work on new things and get new exercises to work on, I get to work on me and not just my horse (I normally train alone).

Why do you choose who you choose?
I chose Linda as she has so much experience, because I like the way she teaches and because we have the same views on things (no rolkur, etc.).

Who would be the one person you wouldn't pass up in a million years?
If I had to pick just one- Jeremy Steinberg who had the famous GP Thoroughbred, Hawkesbury.

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl
Sep. 21, 2009, 02:10 PM
hey ponyfixer - where is cesar coming? I rode with him several times when he used to come to Honey Locust, and I still think of many of his tips and images.

Omom - not sure I clinic "regularly" but over the years I have gotten to ride in many! When I have taken youngsters I'm realizing I have mostly if not exclusively taken them to someone I already knew well and had worked with on other horses. Funny, not sure that has been a conscious plan, but it makes sense to me. :)

In two of those cases it has been taking young event horses to Jim Wofford clinics, in another case it was taking a young dressage horse to Artur Kottas. Both are trainers I trust to tell me if I'm on the right path, and to suggest exercises appropriate for the horse I'm on.

Depending on the clinician I probably vary my expectations - I pretty much count on picking up something new for my toolbox/bag of tricks - but actually with the folks I've worked with more it may be more getting confirmation.
People I know less well are more likely to have a newer perspective for me, or a phrasing I haven't heard that way before, so that can be handy.

One benefit of taking the youngsters to clinics can be it is a way to get away from home and see how they react and have help handy for working through anything which pops up, rather than being on deadline for a ride time in X minutes... It can also be a great way to get a horse who may be for sale or at stud seen by an interested audience!

( Surely by now you know not to expect many answers over the weekend?! :) )

Oldenburg Mom
Sep. 21, 2009, 02:27 PM
( Surely by now you know not to expect many answers over the weekend?! :) )

I wasn't sure. :lol: I still felt like I had 6 heads. :lol:

The clinic thing has me kind of ... perplexed. One thing I learned by working on Wall Street for almost 15 years was the idea of managing expectations. It's important, IMHO, as that's where so many go wrong...regardless of the subject being studied.

I mean, if you go to a clinic and expect to walk out a grand prix rider, ... there's a significant problem with your expectations. Ohhhhh yeah. If you go to a clinic with George Morris, and expect gentleness and kindness,... well, that's a different kind of problem.

Having brought up GM, though, I did send one of my horses and trainers to him ... and I audited. Actually, I was very impressed. GM dealt with some of the issues the horse had ... and gave some very good exercises to take home.

The clinic I'm HOPING for ... is for my boy who is currently on his way to Devon. So, some guidance, and direction...I guess maybe THAT's what she's looking for. Oh, as far as getting them out and away, he's been going to breed shows since he was a weaner,... so another trailer ride for him is a big *YAWN* ho hum. :lol:

Sorry, I'm rambling. Does any of this make sense?

Maybe pony had it right ... fresh eyes. New perspective. I'm very much hoping to get them (trainer & horse) into the Lisa Wilcox clinic at the end of October. Hope hope hope hope. I've audited a clinic she gave at Mary Flood's—and was amazed by her immediate focus on basics, even with the GP riders. And, boy, can SHE ride.

quietann
Sep. 21, 2009, 02:50 PM
There are a couple of clinics listed on the NEDA BB that look interesting. However, at my level I think I'd benefit more from auditing than from actually riding. I've only ridden one clinic, with Linda Zang, and it was a blast. I did get a lot out of it, but given maresy's behavior (I had to struggle to keep her brains in her head), it was more confidence-building than anything else.

(If anyone has any opinions about clinics coming up in MA/NH this fall, PM me...)

BZ
Sep. 21, 2009, 02:51 PM
Wow Ponyfixer, I don't know if I could actually sell my Mom. When is Cesar coming? I am sure you will have a great session with him. Let us know how it goes?

easyklc
Sep. 21, 2009, 02:58 PM
Yes, my mare went to clinics at 4 years old with me aboard. I think it's great to take them young, because it exposes them to new experiences and perpetuates the work ethic. If you can instill that into the young mind the later work is easier. My new horse is 11 and has been out of work, so this Fall and Winter will be clinics to get us show ready for next season.

Of course you aren't getting upper level miracles if he's 5, but certainly a great age to continue on the straight, balanced and obedient theme! I am assuming this horse will be ridden by you, so my suggestion is to pay for yourself to clinic NOT your trainer! Treat yourself girl. :yes:

Oldenburg Mom
Sep. 21, 2009, 03:08 PM
I am assuming this horse will be ridden by you, so my suggestion is to pay for yourself to clinic NOT your trainer! Treat yourself girl. :yes:

Ah, no. This is my main competition horse, and he is ridden by my trainer/rider ... they make an exceptional pair. (Keep you fingers crossed for Devon ... his classes are Wednesday 8:00 and Wednesday 2:00.)

MY horse, that I've just started getting in shape hauling my @ss around, in training level.

Not the same thing at all... but I'm going to be watching them .... like a hawk!

Pony Fixer
Sep. 21, 2009, 04:34 PM
Pony & Easy (or anyone else for that matter) have you ever taken a youngster?

When I lived in VA, I cliniced (sp?) almost monthly with Jim Koford, and also did clinics with CDK, uh, and my brain just died....shoot, a BNT woman...drat. My horse was 5-6 years old.

In recent history I had been attending clinics with my 13 yo 3rd/4th level horse (Steffen, others).

I now have a youngster again (5), and will be with Cesar Parra this fall. If anyone else comes around I'll try to get in, too.

I have found that most good clinicians do not care if you are Training level or GP, if your horse is a 6 mover or an 8, as long as you are willing to work hard and learn. My $.02.

Pony Fixer
Sep. 21, 2009, 04:40 PM
hey ponyfixer - where is cesar coming? I rode with him several times when he used to come to Honey Locust, and I still think of many of his tips and images.


Well he was supposed to be coming to VaBeach in October (just heard today that it's cancelled), and he's coming to Elizabeth Moore's in November (well, I hope he still is ;))


Wow Ponyfixer, I don't know if I could actually sell my Mom. When is Cesar coming? I am sure you will have a great session with him. Let us know how it goes?

Oh, BZ, you know so well that I would have no problem selling my mom. Unfortunately I don't think she'd bring much in the open market ;):lol:

slc2
Sep. 21, 2009, 07:53 PM
Anyone who doesn't and doesn't believe in it isn't invited to say why, LOL.

egontoast
Sep. 21, 2009, 09:14 PM
Anyone who doesn't and doesn't believe in it isn't invited to say why

Awww.You'll have to start your own thread for non believers,slc, something like:

For all those who DO NOT regularly Clinic: Why Not? Is it for a religious reason? Who do you not clinic with? What are the Non Benefits? What refreshments would you Not have? What outfit would you wear if you were NOT going to a clinic?

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Sep. 21, 2009, 09:27 PM
Why do you do this?
I have the opportunity to ride with a German trainer (and I am German). I feel that I get *so* much more out of the clinics than regular lessons. It's stertching beyond where I would normally go.

What do you EXPECT to get out of it?
To be treated like someone who want to go all the way and who is serious about learning.

What do you ACTUALLY get out of it?
A glimpse of what riding at the upper levels will be like :yes:. And serious depession the day after clinic when it just doesn't come so magically together without someone going: "straight, leg, half halt, leg, straight, change now!" ; )

Why do you choose who you choose?
For one, he comes to my barn and I don't have a trailer ;). But I still wouldn't spend the money if I didn't think I'd learn so much.


Who would be the one person you wouldn't pass up in a million years?
Steffen Peters :)

SaddleFitterVA
Sep. 22, 2009, 12:09 AM
Why do you do this?

I used to ride in clinics and since I had not found a local instructor who I clicked with, I would go to 2 or 3 clinics with clinicians I liked.

In the last year or so, I've been working with one instructor and the consistency in instruction is making a difference. In fact, since I've started riding with her, I've only attended Arthur Kottas and one ride with Scott Hassler, which my instructor watched some and then incorporated that into our work.

What do you EXPECT to get out of it?
I hope to get pushed to try something new. Find the edge of the envelope. And a good experience for both me & my horse.

What do you ACTUALLY get out of it?
Usually I get a couple of phrases that are memorable and I can use to remind myself to do while riding alone. Sometimes, absolutely nothing. Sometimes feeling like an utter failure who will never manage to learn to ride.

Why do you choose who you choose?
Word of mouth on most, convenience for others, and filling clinic space for the a few. Facilities wanting health certificates/copies of vaccination records given by vets has made me stop going to some. (I do vaccinate, but like many, do my own)

Who would be the one person you wouldn't pass up in a million years?
Not sure. I used to find clinics to ride in for 75-125, for ride + facility fees. It has gotten to the point where most of them are 150-225 and often will add in a facility fee over and above that. At the lower rates, I always felt I got insight that was at a decent value. At the higher rates, I sometimes think I've overpaid and should just stick to a regular lesson schedule.

Oldenburg Mom
Oct. 28, 2009, 04:10 PM
Well, I'm getting a little nervous.

Ms. Wilcox will be able to "feast" her eyes on Mr. Joey (I'm kidding BTW) a week next Monday. I'm very nervous. I don't want her to think my horse is a bone head...even though he might be.

Anyone have any marvellous advice? My trainer hasn't ridden in front of anyone of this (dressage) calibre. Of course, nervous nellie that I am, I've confidently just brushed it off, saying "Oh, heck, you'll be just FINE! I'm sure she's going to LOFF you!"

I am a little nervous as I don't want my horse presented poorly. Any advice, all you clinic goers? I took the GM clinic VERY seriously, and had my baby boy braided for that. Can't do that with Mr. Joey though ... he HATES BRAIDS ... he has to be braided about 5-minutes before he goes in the ring. So ... anyone? He doesn't wear polos when he's working ... so I thought that might be a bad idea...to put polos on him. Anything else?

YankeeLawyer
Oct. 28, 2009, 04:30 PM
My only advice is fairly basic and I think your trainer would know to do this anyway - but show up on time, the turnout should be neat, clean, and workmanlike, and the rider should *listen* carefully, only speak when expected to do so, and avoid any talking back or excuses as trainers tend to hate that.

And I wouldn't stress over it. Remember that rank pony Lisa had to get on at Mary's a couple of years ago? She dealt with it fine. I am sure yours won't do anything like that. And bring a video cam if permitted as Lisa is likely to get on him.

EiRide
Oct. 28, 2009, 05:11 PM
>Why do you do this?
To learn new stuff, push things up a notch, that sort of thing.

>What do you EXPECT to get out of it?
If I walk away with one really good exercise, or one really nagging issue on the way to being solved, I feel like I have my money's worth.

>What do you ACTUALLY get out of it?
Usually what I am hoping for, although I've had several quite bad clinics that stepped me back or to the side rather than improving my situation. I tend to try things out even if they are counter-intuitive to me, and sometimes my gut was quite correct in that the person's suggestions or program were NOT good for us. I have left a clinic that was clearly going very badly for my horse (this person had no idea how to work with a TB mare, rather than a more traditional WB type--it was very bad indeed. I said thank you, and removed myself to audit. My other horse would have done well in the clinic, but was home).

>Why do you choose who you choose?

Recommendations from friends or my coach, reading what the person has to say about training and philosophy, knowledge from scribing or auditing.

>Who would be the one person you wouldn't pass up in a million years?

Hmmmmm. That I could not just spout off the top of my head!

patch work farm
Oct. 28, 2009, 11:59 PM
I have to completely disagree with your assumption and your comment YL, your quote of:

"Remember that rank pony Lisa had to get on at Mary's a couple of years ago?"

I was at Mary's that day watching what happened with Liberty and for all of us who competed with Kara in our classes along with that pony, we know that she was hardly "rank". She was very well trained, never reacted that way in any classes, ever-Lisa totally pushed her buttons to get that reaction. It was also quite unfortunate that the pony tied up after that episode,. it took months to bring her back to where she was when it happened. Sometimes even these things can happen with professionals, I found it to be completely unnecessary and dangerous. I have seen Lisa ride in Germany and never found her to be that type of rider so I was surprised at what I saw, but it should have stopped long before it did.

YankeeLawyer
Oct. 29, 2009, 12:26 AM
I have to completely disagree with your assumption and your comment YL, your quote of:

"Remember that rank pony Lisa had to get on at Mary's a couple of years ago?"

I was at Mary's that day watching what happened with Liberty and for all of us who competed with Kara in our classes along with that pony, we know that she was hardly "rank". She was very well trained, never reacted that way in any classes, ever-Lisa totally pushed her buttons to get that reaction. It was also quite unfortunate that the pony tied up after that episode,. it took months to bring her back to where she was when it happened. Sometimes even these things can happen with professionals, I found it to be completely unnecessary and dangerous. I have seen Lisa ride in Germany and never found her to be that type of rider so I was surprised at what I saw, but it should have stopped long before it did.

Wow, no need to jump down my throat. I have seen Lisa ride on a number of occasions and have not witnessed her do anything as you describe. While I do not know how the pony is usually, I did see on that day that it was poorly behaved. My point was not about the pony in particular, anyway. But if you feel like warning Omom off a Wilcox clinic, you are entitled to do so. I am not sure why you are jumping on me.

Cowgirl
Oct. 29, 2009, 03:00 AM
I clinic regulary with FEI judges and with top level BNTs. With the FEI judges, I am hoping to get excellent advice on riding movements and tests, feedback on what the overall picture looks like, excruciating attention to detail, and gems of wisdom. From the BNTs, I am hoping to get exercises to solve whatever training issue I'm having. I will not ride in public clinics with auditors as I don't see the point. I am paying for 100% attention on me.

That said, my last year has been all about making the leap with my young horse from lower level collection to FEI level collection and consists of alot of strength building exercises, for which I am happy with the local help I am getting. I am now coming up on some issues with canter pirouettes and I recently introduced passage, so now I want some expert help with that and will be riding in a two day private clinic next month with someone who has been long listed several times, has trained with some of the top luminaries including Herbert Rehbein and Hubertus Schmidt, and has trained many horses to grand prix and can certainly assist me from the ground with the pi and pa.

Unfortunately, where I live, while we have excellent trainers, they just don't have the depth of experience (i.e having trained many different horses to grand prix) and so I feel it rounds out my training program to work with the BNTs and to get the feedback from top judges. One top judge I work with is so detail oriented that he pushes me past myself in terms of seeking excellence in every stride. I love riding with him because it gets me out of any rut I might be in.

I also think, even if you have a fabulous regular trainer, which I do have, it is important to get fresh eyes on you once in a while. Even the best trainers sometimes develop blindness to the same crap they see you do week after week after week, or sometimes you need to hear the instruction in a different way to finally absorb it.

slc2
Oct. 29, 2009, 07:55 AM
If a horse tied up after a ride, it's possible, actually, that it wasn't entirely the rider's fault, even if the rider worked the horse a lot.

I think the blame has been put a little too much in the rider's court, and I think that's based on a lack of information about tieing up.

Look at the overall management of the animal, diet and regularity of work. If the horse is not worked sufficiently on a regular basis, and overfed grain, tieing up can result.

It used to be called 'Monday Morning Disease' because work horses got a full ration of grain on their day off, and tied up when they went back to work on Monday. Consider that the horse might be on too high a grain diet, and that he might not have gotten enough work in the days leading up to the clinic. This can cause tieing up.

In my experience, horses tie up due to changes in work routine. My friend's horse tied up when she went out of town, and left a lower level rider to ride the horse. The rider skipped a couple days, but overall worked the horse far far less than the regular rider. The horse tied up on Monday, when the regular rider came back and gave her her usual workout.

One has to anticipate that a clinician may work one's horse much more than one normally does. If one doesn't prepare for that, tieing up is a risk.

What I have done, is I have stopped the clinician. Yeah, I would stop a Lisa Wilcox, and I have stopped a rider at that level on my horse. I know how much I worked my horse prior to a clinic and I know when it is time for my horse to stop, I can see that the clinician is trying to work through a problem and in so doing is working the horse more than my regular rides leading up to the clinic. The clinician doesn't know how much one has fitted up one's horse for the clinic, one has to be responsible and say, 'OK, that's enough'.

If I haven't prepared my horse sufficiently for a clinic, I can tell that. I can see that the clinician works differently than I do. And I can tell when it is time to say enough. I think a lot of people won't because they would feel publicly humiliated that everyone would know they weren't prepared. I am much more afraid of overworking my horse than I am of public humiliation.

This is nothing against any clinician. They cannot see what one did with the horse in months prior to the clinic, and with an eager or fresh or excited horse and a rider who really wants to work on an issue, they can get absorbed in what they are working on, and someone has to stand there and say, 'golly, this is more than I worked my horse in the months leading to the clinic'.

The work routine needs to be consistent, and when someone goes into a clinic with someone of the calibre of Lisa Wilcox, one has to think very, very hard about not only is the horse generally fit and up to the task of working in a very focused and concentrated way for at least an hour in trot and canter without tons of breaks, working a lot on collection and strength, meaning, has the horse been doing this same sort of work, daily, for MONTHS, but also, is the rider going to be able to work the horse in the days leading up to the clinic, at the same level of intensity as anticipated in the clinic.

These are very, very hard questions. It takes an immense amount of time and work to prepare a horse for such a clinic. Any time one goes to such a clinic with a horse that isn't working at that level of intensity for months ahead of the clinic, one is taking a risk with one's horse - a big risk.

Transworldequine
Oct. 29, 2009, 12:45 PM
Who would be the one person you wouldn't pass up in a million years?

KARL MIKOLKA

Simply brilliant!

goeslikestink
Oct. 29, 2009, 04:42 PM
Just a question for all those who regularly clinic—it doesn't matter with who—a couple of questions:




Why do you do this? to improve ones partnership





What do you EXPECT to get out of it? education for both horse and rider



What do you ACTUALLY get out of it? a different prospective depending on the clinic in question





Why do you choose who you choose? bht 3 day proven event trainers



Who would be the one person you wouldn't pass up in a million years? i dont go to any one that doesnt have a proven carreer or is not qualified to teach nor trian
in other word accreited trianers only



I'm just asking this question for general education ... not for any specific reason.

And thanks, very much, for your answers.

your welcome

patch work farm
Oct. 30, 2009, 11:15 PM
Sorry, I was hardly trying to steal the thread, just wanted to make a point at how damaging it can be to make assumptions about other people's horses when they are not known to you.

IMHO I think calling someone else's animal "rank" is not complimentary. I don't think that she was "poorly behaved" either. I think it was more an issue of a chestnut mare being told she was going to do something that she clearly was not planning on, in this specific situation IMHO, I felt there was a need for more finesse. For those of us that ride a variety of mares, we know that sometimes "it has to be their idea". I know you have mares, but I don't know if you have ever picked "a fight" in that one moment when they are absolutely not in agreement with your plan, it escalates pretty quickly. That is my opinion and on that day, it was what I thought happened, when I spoke to her owner later, she said exactly that.

For YL, I said I disagreed with you, if that is jumping down your throat, I would hate to see your reaction to other comments. I stated that I didn't think you had all the facts and disagreed with your thoughts about the pony, it was not a personal attack, there have been many other times that I have agreed with you on specific threads. That is why these posts exist, for different perspectives, not to take things personally. I did not say that I didn't think Lisa was a fabulour rider, I think she is, just seemed that there was an issue that specific day with one horse. I was not recommending anything to OMOM one way or the other. Since I am in sales and spend my day getting hung up on, told off or just ignored, I guess I have tougher skin?

SLC2, you are correct, it was a training issue, although the pony had been in work at the farm where the clinic took place, the riding was extreme. I cannot speak to her feed program but knowing the facility, etc. I think it was just too much hard work at one time.

YankeeLawyer
Oct. 31, 2009, 01:58 AM
Patch Work, perhaps part of the issue is that tone is hard to discern on the internet, but I did feel you were jumping on me and do not think it is particular polite or tactful to announce your post as "correction" apparently to mine. I think it is a bit disrespectful, but apparently that was not your intent.

Regarding "assumptions" - my comments are based on what I saw with my own eyes. I also did not name the pony or the rider - you did. There was no reason to name the pony, particularly if there was any concern about damaging the pony's reputation.

patch work farm
Oct. 31, 2009, 11:23 AM
YL, you are correct, "tone" over the internet is hard to interpret, you have a PM.

Anyone who was in that audience knew the pony that was referred to, it was not a secret. Maybe I didn't need to mention it on the internet but I felt it was important that others know she is not rank, especially since she belonged to a YR at the time. I have received a few PM's thanking me for clarifying. IMHO what was important to note was that in that specific situation, I think the ride went on too long and it wasn't the appropriate place for what we watched. That is not to say that Lisa isn't a lovely rider, I think she is.

slc2
Oct. 31, 2009, 12:21 PM
If the work is not appropriate, only the regular rider/owner could POSSIBLY know it is!!!! The clinician doesn't have a crystal ball!!!!! IF IT IS, IF YOU EVEN THINK IT IS, STOP THE RIDE. Don't let the animal tie up then blame the clinician, for heaven's sake!!!!!

People need to not blame other people for their own mistakes.

I've asked the likes of Lisa Wilcox to stop a ride on my horse at a big public clinic and you know what? The clinician was FINE about it.

In fact, he was more than gracious and kind and I was very, very grateful to have someone of that calibre not only ride my horse so skillfully, but also show me that my horse needed to be worked in a different way every day to move up and excel in his work without straining him. As they told me, 'if you love your horse, you will work him this way' and they were right!

It's MY responsibility if my horse isn't ready to be ridden intensively by a top clinician, and MY fault if the equipment, diet, fitness are inadequate for the level I want the horse to be at, and I have to be the one to look at the work and say, 'this isn't how I worked my horse at home, I'll have to stop the ride' and then DO IT.

I can see how many walk breaks and how many minutes of half pass, and how many minutes of flying lead changes, and I can do the math in my head and realize I don't work like that at home.

One learns more than just how to bend to the left from a clinic with a top trainer. One learns how one's whole program has to change and improve, and so let the clinician teach what he knows. The key is to learn this lesson without hurting the horse. And if that means taking a few lumps in public, take 'em.

egontoast
Oct. 31, 2009, 07:59 PM
I've asked the likes of Lisa Wilcox to stop a ride on my horse at a big public clinic and you know what? The clinician was FINE about it.

In fact, he was more than gracious and kind and I was very, very grateful to have someone of that calibre not only ride my horse so skillfully, but also show me that my horse needed to be worked in a different way every day to move up and excel in his work without straining him. As they told me, 'if you love your horse, you will work him this way' and they were right!



Last time I saw Lisa she was still definitely female and great but just one person.

fiona
Oct. 31, 2009, 08:30 PM
For all those who DO NOT regularly Clinic: Why Not? Is it for a religious reason? Who do you not clinic with? What are the Non Benefits? What refreshments would you Not have? What outfit would you wear if you were NOT going to a clinic?

Finally!!! Questions i'm qualified to answer.

Is it for a religious reason?

Yes. I am a Jedi knight and it is forbidden.

Who do i not clinic with?

The SRS, every Olympic Champion of the last century, Myhatma Gandi, the Dali LLama, all the Klimkes and that belgian guy called Jane who is incredibly popular with the english right now - maybe because he's cheap???

What are the non benefits?

Well for starters, i'm not clouding my vision with pearls of wisdom. Or any other sort of technical wizardry.

What refreshments wouldn't i have?

The mojitos. Anything non alcoholic.

What outfit would i wear if i were not going to a clinic?

My sample sale Katie Price full seat hot pant breeches meets rock chick ensemble. with extra bling.

leheath
Nov. 2, 2009, 02:29 AM
Just a question for all those who regularly clinic—it doesn't matter with who—a couple of questions:

Why do you do this?

I clinic several times a year instead of taking regular lessons. I have been going to fairly "big name" clinicians this year with my green 4yo and the sessions have all be extremely valuable and worth every penny. Of course, I am very upfront about our level of experience and training as well as our goals at the outset before I even book a place in the clinic to ensure there is no misunderstanding. I prefer clinics because I feel they give you a better idea of how you are doing at that moment and what you should be working on. I find regular lessons tend to be "biased" by what has happened previously and doesn't always reflect what is happening/needs to happen now. I also like time between sessions to develop and improve my horse and myself by focusing on whatever suggestions the clinician made.

What do you EXPECT to get out of it?
I expect honest feedback given calmly and respectfully. I don't appreciate being yelled at. I expect an identification of one or two critical areas that need improvement and some sensible exercises I can work on for that purpose. I also expect some suggestions on what we should be doing to take a step forward and some more challenging exercises so I know where I should be heading and I expect to be ready for new ones at the next clinic. I do not expect a clinician to ride my horse as I expect them to be able to give me adequate verbal direction and my horse has done some pretty serious bucking in the past and I don't want to risk the clinician getting injured!

What do you ACTUALLY get out of it?
So far, I have gotten exactly what I expected. My horse and I were challenged without being over-faced and we got excellent, balanced feedback (eg. what was good and what needs work), ideas on exercises to improve our weaknesses and exercises to keep us progressing.

Why do you choose who you choose?
I choose clinicians whose teaching style and training methods are compatible with my own training philosophy. I will only ride with them without auditing first if I have a solid recommendation from someone I trust who sees eye-to-eye with me on training and knows my expectations from a clinic. The "big name" isn't important to me, but philosophy, proven track record I admire, and teaching style are critical.

Who would be the one person you wouldn't pass up in a million years?
Hmm...tricky....can't pick just one, but definitely Philippe Karl, Karen Rohlf, David O'Connor, Ian Millar, Ingrid Klimke, Karl Mikolka, and Jimmy Wofford.