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View Full Version : Spin-off: what does it take to Qualify for Indoors



hellerkm
Sep. 15, 2009, 06:54 PM
I was looking at the PNHS qualifying list ( ponies mainly) and looking at the number of points it took to get in. There is only ONE kid in PA who qualified.
I am assuming that at this point in time you need to show year round and hit a BUNCH of AA shows in order to make the indoors ( or Devon for that matter)? How do kids manage to stay in school (or get school work done on the road) and do anything but ride? I guess I am more in awe of the size of the checkbook it would take and the time commitment a parent would have to make in order to accomplish this goal! Not mention the kid LOL!!
Years ago you could qualify without heading to FL in the winter, I guess that is no longer the case??

Amigo
Sep. 15, 2009, 07:22 PM
I agree that it's a bit crazy, especially with the changes they made this year with the number of points you need, especially in the New England area.

Last year in my region, you needed 40 points to go to Harrisburg, and I was qualified by the beginning of June. This year you need 80 points, and with the economy right now, I didn't get to go to as many shows. I consider it quite an accomplishment to have gotten the 40 points that I have.

The kids you're going to see at Harrisburg this year are most likely either the ones that can afford to go to every horse show, the ones that have multiple horses so that they don't run their horse into the ground to qualify, and the very best who win every weekend in good company.

JinxyFish313
Sep. 15, 2009, 07:29 PM
Money.

spmoonie
Sep. 15, 2009, 07:34 PM
Money.

:yes: Sadly, the sport has turned into a Who-can-afford-the-best-horse, trainer, go to the most shows, etc. I dont care what people say, if you dont have the money, it is near impossible to be successful (at the highest levels...Not talking about local shows).

SaturdayNightLive
Sep. 15, 2009, 08:20 PM
Money.

:yes:

hellerkm
Sep. 15, 2009, 08:31 PM
:yes: Sadly, the sport has turned into a Who-can-afford-the-best-horse, trainer, go to the most shows, etc. I dont care what people say, if you dont have the money, it is near impossible to be successful (at the highest levels...Not talking about local shows).
Kind of a shame IMHO!:no: Please don't take that the wrong way,we are sooo blessed to even be able to participate in this sport and we love what we do. We ride because that is what we love to do, and we compete to see how far we have come, so if we never make it to the indoors or Devon we will still ride to the best of our ability and know that we are good at what we do. Sometimes I just find it frustrating that the all mighty dollar has so much pull LOL!!!

toomanyponies
Sep. 15, 2009, 09:08 PM
I think you meant in the hunters?

remember its the best 15 shows, so if it took 3000 points, divide by 15, that's 200 points a show - that means you need to be winning at AA shows. . . .

spmoonie
Sep. 15, 2009, 09:12 PM
Kind of a shame IMHO!:no: Please don't take that the wrong way,we are sooo blessed to even be able to participate in this sport and we love what we do. We ride because that is what we love to do, and we compete to see how far we have come, so if we never make it to the indoors or Devon we will still ride to the best of our ability and know that we are good at what we do. Sometimes I just find it frustrating that the all mighty dollar has so much pull LOL!!!

Indeed, It is very frustrating. Its almost as if the less fortunate rider's talent just goes to waste.

heygirlhey33
Sep. 15, 2009, 09:20 PM
This is why im soo happy I stayed a year longer in childrens. Qualifying for finals in childrens was a piece of cake. I only did 8 shows this year. All I needed was to win four of the classics out of 30+ kids and then be second and fourth, then I was set. Next year on the other hand is gonna be alot more work to qualify. Oh jeez not looking forward to that

Smiles
Sep. 16, 2009, 09:49 AM
Money.

It also helps to have a nice horse too. :winkgrin:

Giddy-up
Sep. 16, 2009, 10:44 AM
It's your top 15 shows that count. Add in some more shows to make up for the ones where you weren't so great.

I don't know if you necessarily need to go to FL for the winter, but you do need to be showing somewhere. I don't think it's possible (although maybe depending on the division, horse, rider, budget & stars aligning) to start showing in May & still make it into Indoors.

meganp
Sep. 16, 2009, 11:57 AM
It depends on the division on how many shows you need to go to and the rating of the show. Doing well at a AA show and doing well in the classics for bonus points makes a huge difference.

My sister qualified a horse for the younger A/O hunters a few years ago with only 9 shows. She had been champion or reserve at 5 of those shows and 5 of the 9 shows were AA rated.

The horse that had shown 9 times in the A/O's and done well amost every time out ended up with more points than the other horse we also qualified for the same division that we had shown 12 times.

We didn't take either horse to FL or even St. Louis for points. We stayed in Chicago/Indiana/Kentucky to qualify.

bascher
Sep. 16, 2009, 12:00 PM
Our two riders who qualified (large junior olders and small ponies) did not go to FL at all over the winter. I'm sure it would have made it easier for them if they had, but they didn't and still qualified. Our barn did go to Vermont and Saratoga for the AAs, but there just aren't that many double As in PA where we live. However, they still managed by doing REALLY well at all of the other shows lol.

Tha Ridge
Sep. 16, 2009, 12:19 PM
My trainer qualified a Large Pony this year with just two weeks of Gulfport and then consistent showing the rest of the year. If you are Champion or Reserve every weekend out, it can make the push for points much easier.

Nadonyalife
Sep. 16, 2009, 01:01 PM
Daughter qualified a small jr hunter for indoors in 2007 on the strength of only 10 shows; however, she was CH or Res at most & also placed well in Jr. hunter classics, which really help.

dauphine2
Sep. 16, 2009, 04:28 PM
Daughter qualified a small jr hunter for indoors in 2007 on the strength of only 10 shows; however, she was CH or Res at most & also placed well in Jr. hunter classics, which really help.

What zone are you guys in? I'd love to qualify for indoors, but my school does't allow more than ten missed days of class time, so Florida is out of the question. I'm just worried that the class counts will go down severly in the small junior 15&u over the winter...

dab
Sep. 16, 2009, 05:29 PM
OP -- It helps to look for 'opportunities' if you're showing on a budget or want your kids to keep a normal school schedule--

Check out the pony jumpers -- A pony rider would just have to earn points in one NAL class to qualify --

Wait until your kids move up to horses -- I've heard some riders qualify for the NAL Children's hunter final at Harrisburg on as little as 2 shows --

Also, I believe you live in Zone 2 -- Zone 2 Finals are at Harrisburg the day after PA National -- I wouldn't say it's easy to qualify a hunter pony for Zones, but it's certainly easier than qualifying for PA National -- In past years, a pony was guaranteed a spot at zones when they reached 1000 points -- The rules changed this year, so it's difficult to tell how many points will be needed in the future -- 1000 points is doable without missing school or sending the pony south to compete on a winter circuit --

In PA, the state 4-H finals are usually held at Harrisburg -- Lots of kids get to show at Harrisburg on a budget by qualifying for these finals -- Unfortunately, I've heard the funding for the show is in jeopardy due to the state budget crisis --

Also, if you're chasing pony points it pays to pick the easiest shows to win points -- I've heard the Ashley Meadows shows are ones where ponies can pick up points over the winter -- Our Farm has some A shows in the winter that might be another easy option --

dove
Sep. 16, 2009, 06:07 PM
Our two riders who qualified (large junior olders and small ponies) did not go to FL at all over the winter. I'm sure it would have made it easier for them if they had, but they didn't and still qualified.

I'm pretty darn sure that it's much harder to qualify for indoors when you spend your winter in florida where the divisions are huge and the chance of a ribbon (let alone a tricolor where the points really are) is much more unlikely unless you are very very good. It makes a lot more sense to stay at home and do your "local" A's and AA's where you have the chance to do much better - although probably against many less. (I just reread this paragraph and I didn't mean it to sound like I'm lessening your riders' accomplishments at all - on the contrary, I think you were smart to stay at home over the winter and do very well at the big shows you went to over the summer.)

Unless you can nail it every time you show, it takes a lot of money to get to indoors. Ribboning at indoors takes a lot more money. That's why getting into indoors is not the top priority on every rider's list :yes:

bascher
Sep. 16, 2009, 06:18 PM
I retract my it would have been easier statement :) Rather, I definitely think it could go either way. On the one hand, it's probably easier to stay home. However, most of the shows around us aren't AAs, so even being champion won't get you the required points unless you win every class. So in that way, it's hard when you don't have a AA every weekend. On the other hand, you're definitely right that it's much much more harder to ribbon down in FL. So either way you still have to do well lol!

hellerkm
Sep. 16, 2009, 07:01 PM
When I was a Jr, we chased points here in Pa every weekend, we did not go to FL and AA shows did not come into existence until I was at the end of my Jr years. Ashley Meadows was still the place to gather easy points LOL and sometimes we hit several shows in ONE day to get points. I was wondering when I type the original post if this were still the case, if you could really CHASE points locally and still qualify, I guess I got my answer THANKS!!
My kids are not chasing anything yet LOL, Sarah is too young and Megs pony is too green ( might be able to come out green in 2011) so for now I was really just "wondering" it has all changed so much since I was young ( and had the energy to prep and ride in 3-4 shows a weekend LOL) of course that was possible because there was no mileage rule then!

cantercutie
Sep. 17, 2009, 12:12 AM
You do not have to go to Florida for the winter to qualify. Some have better odds of qualifying if they don't. Tons of kids go to Florida for maybe a few ribbons (not very many points for 12 weeks of showing) but are good enough so they would win at AA shows closer to home with less difficult competition. The very best and those who run their horses into the ground chasing points are usually the ones who qualify.
The people who are the very best and end up winning at indoors aren't usually the same ones showing every single weekend simply because they don't have to. The very best can qualify in less than ten shows. Two years ago a friend of mine started catch riding a horse in June, showed in seven shows over the summer and qualified in one of the most competitive junior divisions that year. She was champion or reserve every time out so through the whole year the horse did ten shows (the horse had had a year off before being brought back to work in April and showing in June): the seven to qualify, Capital Challenge, Harrisburg, and Washington.
Of course it still takes money, but some of the very best, even top competitors at medal finals, are working students who have busted their rear ends as working students and for the chance to ride with a top trainer and a loaned horse. The majority have thicker wallets than most people but average joes still make it.

hellerkm
Sep. 17, 2009, 06:22 AM
You do not have to go to Florida for the winter to qualify. Some have better odds of qualifying if they don't. Tons of kids go to Florida for maybe a few ribbons (not very many points for 12 weeks of showing) but are good enough so they would win at AA shows closer to home with less difficult competition. The very best and those who run their horses into the ground chasing points are usually the ones who qualify.
The people who are the very best and end up winning at indoors aren't usually the same ones showing every single weekend simply because they don't have to. The very best can qualify in less than ten shows. Two years ago a friend of mine started catch riding a horse in June, showed in seven shows over the summer and qualified in one of the most competitive junior divisions that year. She was champion or reserve every time out so through the whole year the horse did ten shows (the horse had had a year off before being brought back to work in April and showing in June): the seven to qualify, Capital Challenge, Harrisburg, and Washington.
Of course it still takes money, but some of the very best, even top competitors at medal finals, are working students who have busted their rear ends as working students and for the chance to ride with a top trainer and a loaned horse. The majority have thicker wallets than most people but average joes still make it.

Interesting, glad I started this thread I have learned a TON!!! thanks for the info!

ponymom64
Sep. 17, 2009, 08:19 AM
I just took a look at the number of shows in the medium ponies that some of the qualifiers did this show year. Many of them were up in the mid - high twenties, one or two even did thirty or more.

Very few did less than the mid teens. So it would seem to me that in most cases - the way to get to indoors is to show at every show......

hellerkm
Sep. 17, 2009, 09:03 AM
I just took a look at the number of shows in the medium ponies that some of the qualifiers did this show year. Many of them were up in the mid - high twenties, one or two even did thirty or more.

Very few did less than the mid teens. So it would seem to me that in most cases - the way to get to indoors is to show at every show......

Does it tell you what shows they did and how many points they earned per show? can where do I find that info! thanks!

ponymom64
Sep. 17, 2009, 09:12 AM
Does it tell you what shows they did and how many points they earned per show? can where do I find that info! thanks!

If you go to the USEF website - go to Points and Standings - then you can go either to National points or Zone - Click on the pony's name and the show history should show up. Turn your pop up blocker off, tho.

cantercutie
Sep. 17, 2009, 08:34 PM
I just took a look at the number of shows in the medium ponies that some of the qualifiers did this show year. Many of them were up in the mid - high twenties, one or two even did thirty or more.

Very few did less than the mid teens. So it would seem to me that in most cases - the way to get to indoors is to show at every show......

Sorry I didn't clarify, I was thinking of horses. Ponies do tend to get trucked around to just about every show they can possibly enter. If you look at the junior hunters there are only a few in each division with more than twenty shows this year, the majority of them having mid-teens, and most of the ones I think really have a shot having that many or less.

sarcam02
Nov. 4, 2009, 11:35 AM
You do not have to go to Florida for the winter to qualify. Some have better odds of qualifying if they don't. Tons of kids go to Florida for maybe a few ribbons (not very many points for 12 weeks of showing) but are good enough so they would win at AA shows closer to home with less difficult competition. The very best and those who run their horses into the ground chasing points are usually the ones who qualify.
The people who are the very best and end up winning at indoors aren't usually the same ones showing every single weekend simply because they don't have to. The very best can qualify in less than ten shows. Two years ago a friend of mine started catch riding a horse in June, showed in seven shows over the summer and qualified in one of the most competitive junior divisions that year. She was champion or reserve every time out so through the whole year the horse did ten shows (the horse had had a year off before being brought back to work in April and showing in June): the seven to qualify, Capital Challenge, Harrisburg, and Washington.
Of course it still takes money, but some of the very best, even top competitors at medal finals, are working students who have busted their rear ends as working students and for the chance to ride with a top trainer and a loaned horse. The majority have thicker wallets than most people but average joes still make it.

If (in the highly unlikely event that we ever go) one wins ribbons in childrens sm/med at a WEF show do the points count in your local Zone (1)? I'm thinking no but wanted to take a COTH shortcut to the answer.

bascher
Nov. 4, 2009, 12:18 PM
If (in the highly unlikely event that we ever go) one wins ribbons in childrens sm/med at a WEF show do the points count in your local Zone (1)? I'm thinking no but wanted to take a COTH shortcut to the answer.

At least for Zone II, no. The only shows that count for Zone II points are those shows within Zone II or those shows in states that touch Zone II states. So for example, Maryland and Vermont shows count for Zone II points.

sarcam02
Nov. 4, 2009, 01:00 PM
Thanks Basher - that is indeed helpful.

bascher
Nov. 4, 2009, 01:43 PM
Thanks Basher - that is indeed helpful.

You're welcome :)