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View Full Version : The pony thread got me thinking



rabicon
Sep. 14, 2009, 12:48 PM
Someone mentioned in the thread about getting a pony to measure that people rename and go green.

So got me thinking, does this really happen much? I guess there is really no way to keep up with a horse/pony that showed under one name and then other another is there?

findeight
Sep. 14, 2009, 03:37 PM
I don't have any idea about how often. probably not that much but it does happen and at the top.

There was one that busted as a big Small and had to compete as a small Medium. Trainer pretty much openly flaunted the fact it was a rename...sort of disappeared mid way thru that "Green" season and showed back up under the original name in Children's ponies. Just a bit much for anybody and some did call him on that one.

One thing here...alot of innuendo and rumor surrounds some of the absolute tippy top of the line squeak bys. But they do measure at or just under, do get protested and they do remeasure under. Accusing or even just assuming a crooked steward and vet and a trainer owed a favor are behind them is really not fair.

Not that I am saying it does not happen, it most certainly has. But making that assumption standing ringside unless you were there when it was measured sort of is calling everybody else a crook when the fact usually is the damn thing DOES measure as stated.

People do all sorts of things. That does not mean everybody does or that it is the right thing to do and accepted by one and all. That fraction of an inch is huge and it's fine to do as much as possible to hionestly get the measurement. But if it doesn't? It doesn't.

ExJumper
Sep. 14, 2009, 04:05 PM
It's really hard to know the size of a pony by looking at it, anyway. The size of the kid, how it holds its head, its build -- all these things make a HUGE difference in how "big" a pony looks.

I remember the measure of a Junior horse. It never occurred to the owners that it would be a small. It looked HUGE and it carried it's head high and sure the hell LOOKED like a large. But it was a small.

Same thing can happen to ponies -- they can look a lot bigger (or smaller) than they are.


I can't speak to renaming, though. It seems like it wouldn't be worth it -- I mean, if you get protested and measure over, you can protest the remeasure and then remeasure again and probably put in the prep to get back to where you were originally. If you can't get the smaller measure, renaming isn't going to help because you're going to have to measure the renamed pony anyway, right?

findeight
Sep. 14, 2009, 06:45 PM
I can't speak to renaming, though. It seems like it wouldn't be worth it -- I mean, if you get protested and measure over, you can protest the remeasure and then remeasure again and probably put in the prep to get back to where you were originally. If you can't get the smaller measure, renaming isn't going to help because you're going to have to measure the renamed pony anyway, right?

No, you misunderstood, a well known division Small was protested and remeasured as a small Medium, they appealed and lost so it became an official small Medium. So they showed it as a Green MEDIUM under a new name...for a few months until several others told him privately they were going to protest and there were enough of them to scare him into just going back doing Childrens Pony.

Indy
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:16 PM
I don't know how common it is, it does happen.

I know of one pony who did her green year as a Medium (albeit a smaller one, but legitimately a Medium), was sold, and then reappeared in a different area of the country as a Small pony with a new name and did her green year again. She was very successful as a Small, ribboning at Pony Finals and qualifying for indoors the year after her "green year" as a Small. Her brain got pretty well fried after that year and she wound up being retired as a brood mare after a few attempts to start her over.

HuntrJumpr
Sep. 14, 2009, 10:41 PM
I don't know how common it is now - I am not involved with the upper echelon of ponies, and know it simply isn't worth it on the 'A' and 'B' circuit around my area. But I can say it used to be relatively common. Maybe common isn't the best word, but it happened regularly at the big name barn one of my acquaintences rode and worked at. Mind, her barn eventually got busted for some much bigger and more dramatic things than being shady in the pony ring...

rabicon
Sep. 15, 2009, 01:24 PM
Not so much just ponies but horses in general. Is it pretty easy for people to get away with this with horses? Showing them in greens and they show out and then renaming and with another rider reshow greens? Or if someone buys the horse and then renames it and takes it back green? It really seems like it would be really easy to do because how can you really prove it??? Sorry, just my brain wondering today about things. lol

showmom858
Sep. 15, 2009, 02:07 PM
We had a horse we were trying for my DD last year so I started looking up show results for him. I found him on USEF and looked at results that were within the past year, but the sellers told us he had done classes that I did not see in the results. Well then I find out that the horse had 3 different names and 3 different USEF numbers! The sellers trainer said that the people showing him did not know his number when they were at an "A" show so they just got him a new number under a different name. This horse did not vet out well so we passed, but I was a bit suspicious of the sellers. I can certainly see that people can easily change a horse's name and get a new USEF number and show them again as green.

My DD wanted to change her new horse's name when we got him. We did it correctly and filed the paperwork with USEF for the name change. Now when you look him up you can correctly see all the shows he has competed in.

findeight
Sep. 15, 2009, 03:23 PM
It happens. And with so many plain brown wrapper types in the Hunters?

But, again, the majority of decent trainers cannot risk it because they are good and do well at the shows so people do notice and are eager to jump in and claim foul (if you suck, nobody cares as I always say). The reputable ones do not care to chance their reputation by feeding the rumor mill.

Funny, somebody mentioned a shady Pony barn going down for something much worse? No surprise, deliberate cheating can bit you in the butt down the road. Karma. Never ceases to amaze me that clients actually stay with some of these deadbeats that deserve an asterix* next to any award they win.

Guess they don't realize that it rubs of on them too. Just like fleas off that sleeping dog.

rabicon
Sep. 15, 2009, 03:33 PM
Thats what I figured, no way to prove it except people saying. Thats intresting, but I would hope people really don't do it alot. With that said, thanks for the replys. Its been a while since I've been in the hunter ring and thats what I thought but wasn't sure if they came up with new ways of doing things.

ponymom64
Sep. 15, 2009, 04:34 PM
No, you misunderstood, a well known division Small was protested and remeasured as a small Medium, they appealed and lost so it became an official small Medium. So they showed it as a Green MEDIUM under a new name...for a few months until several others told him privately they were going to protest and there were enough of them to scare him into just going back doing Childrens Pony.

Technically, the pony would be a *green* medium as it had not jumped higher than 2'6" when it was doing the smalls - not sure why anyone would protest that? More likely, the pony could not make the lines in the mediums and was moved down to the children's since it could not go back to the regular smalls......

findeight
Sep. 15, 2009, 05:00 PM
Technically, the pony would be a *green* medium as it had not jumped higher than 2'6" when it was doing the smalls - not sure why anyone would protest that? More likely, the pony could not make the lines in the mediums and was moved down to the children's since it could not go back to the regular smalls......

Protest would be valid on an unrecorded name change and misrepresentation (they had it remeasured under the new name. And reduced statement of age, it lost a few years) if not on just the ethics (or lack thereof) involved.

It just got a little...er...uncomfortable...around the in gate and in the schooling ring with other Pros and concience (sp?) got the best of him...or he was afraid some of the other rumored stunts he pulled would get him in trouble. Just one of those guys that generates alot of eye rolling anyway.