What do you do about the Trainer/instructor who doesn't show up?

[slc2]

What do you folks feel about the instructor or trainer who doesn't show up?

My friend out on the west coast has a trainer, who one way or another, about a third of the time, does not show up at her barn to train/teach her. The barn is five minutes away from the trainer's home, so it isn't a problem of making a long trip. The trainer is, granted, a busy professional and he has medaled internationally, so there is a lot going on in his business.

Surprisingly, at least to me, there aren't any other internationally experienced trainers that would come to her barn. She'd have to haul out and wants to avoid that. She has kids and a job, so even with the cancellations, she would get far less training if she hauled out rather than took lessons.

I told her that I'd be relaxed about it, as it's nice to have convenient access to that high quality of a resource whenever it IS available. I told her that's how I've always viewed it. As a working girl, I've often been the last appt of the trainer's day, and often when you're on the tail end of their day...well...I've always been pretty laid back when a busy pro cancels. Having worked with a few of them now, I've found that sometimes you just weigh the pluses and minuses and decide that this is ok.

I also told her that unless the guy's situation changes, her is unlikely to change how he schedules her. So just be thankful that such high quality, experienced a trainer will come to her barn sometimes, LOL.

But when she filled me in in detail as to what's been going on, I was not so sure how I felt. One way or another, on average, about a third of his appointments to this gal are canceled. She can't get him to stick with a specific day, it changes alot, which creates some friction at her job.

Sometimes the reasons sound really decent, one time, her friend saw the guy at a party when he had told her he was sick...LOL.

He (the trainer) has just simply not shown up without calling several times over two years. He has also sent a text message fifteen minutes before a lesson appointment to cancel.

At one point, he went to Europe for five months...and...he didn't cancel her lesson...LOL...she was riding around in the ring for an hour waiting for him, finally got him on the phone, 'Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to tell you, I'm going to Europe. I'm at the airport'. She had a tough time lining up someone to work with for only a few months, who was willing to step out when he came back. Granted...he didn't know if the arrangements would come thru til the last minute. But he forgot to let her know.

She feels, I think, slightly taken advantage of sometimes, but just slightly. She's not angry....yet...LOL. But I think if it gets worse, she could get that way. I've also seen students who are FURIOUS at the slightest deviation of schedule from a trainer, and some who don't accept the realities of working with a very busy professional, and who take every change as a highly personal insult, or freak out when the trainer can't come because they are too dependent on the trainer...I don't believe that's healthy or realistic.

For various reasons, neither of us think this guy would respond at all positively to request to give more notice or stick with a steadier schedule (I've only seen him once, at a clinic, but I got the same impression). I'm not even sure he really could. Things DO come up. And frankly, some people just aren't that good at juggling everyone.

At the same time, while she says none of these things separately are a big deal, 'It's adding up'.

What would you do? How bad does it need to be before you decide to look elsewhere?

For me, it's always made sense to tolerate schedule changes from a busy pro, even for social events. They have a personal life too, and this is an 'at-will' service that is scheduled, and if they don't come, I don't get a lesson, but also, they don't get paid, and that's their choice.

So...What would you do?

[Dad Said Not To]

I wouldn't work with someone who had so little respect for me. I can deal with cancelling the occasional lesson. But up to 1/3 of them, often with little to no notification? That's incredibly rude and self-centered behavior, and I won't put up with it.

[Woodland]

Time to find a new trainer! IMHO if a trainer has "international experience" and is any good they would not have time to come to another barn for one person's lesson. So find someone else.

[slc2]

As I said, she is usually notified. ONCE it was right before the lesson that she was notified, TWICE she was not notified. TWICE in two years, but....one of those was for the trip to Europe....LOL.

Sorry, Woodland, I don't agree that 'no good trainer' goes to other barns. It varies. There are the 'barn jockeys' that teach up-downs to 10 barns a week, but not everyone is like that. I LOVE it when a really good trainer will go to nearby barns. It's fabulous for the community. And there are folks of very high calibre who do.

This is really the question - if the trainer really is what you want, really top notch in all respects except for an eccentricity like this, do you put up with some...eccentricity...and how much.

[tikidoc]

I wouldn't work with someone who had so little respect for me. I can deal with cancelling the occasional lesson. But up to 1/3 of them, often with little to no notification? That's incredibly rude and self-centered behavior, and I won't put up with it.

For the most part I would agree with this. If I felt like I benefited a lot from the trainer's lessons and I had a schedule that was flexible enough the rescheduling was not a major inconvenience, then I might put up with it, although I would have a talk with the trainer about it. But if, as implied by the OP, I was scheduling time off work around lessons (the comment about it creating friction at work) only to get canceled at the last moment, I would not put up with it. I would sit the trainer down for a discussion about it, and if it didn't improve, I would move on. To some extent, how much I would tolerate would also depend on my alternatives in the area.

[slc2]

It's not about a set schedule, with her job. She's in I.T., like me (that's how I met her), and they just want to know which days you're going to leave a little bit early. She leaves a little bit early to get ready for her lessons, a half hour or 40 minutes, though she comes in early those days. No one has complained to her, she just feels it might not be the best thing for her.

What she CAN'T do is come in early and leave early when he calls her and says, 'can yo utake your lesson today instead of tomorrow', when she is already AT work.

[dghunter]

No way would I put up with it. I have to adjust my schedule slightly on lesson days and I'm busy enough. If the trainer doesn't have enough respect to not cancel lessons in advance... I mean does he have a 24 hour policy for her? And for him to straight up lie and say he's sick and then go to a party :no: Internationally known or not, that sounds very immature IMHO.

[saultgirl]

This is me

I'd be relaxed about it, as it's nice to have convenient access to that high quality of a resource whenever it IS available. I told her that's how I've always viewed it. As a working girl, I've often been the last appt of the trainer's day, and often when you're on the tail end of their day...well...I've always been pretty laid back when a busy pro cancels. Having worked with a few of them now, I've found that sometimes you just weigh the pluses and minuses and decide that this is ok.

There have been times when the trainer has called the barn and had someone leave a note on the board saying there is no lesson, so I don't find out until I get there, and there have been a few times when I didn't get the message before getting to the barn, but I honestly don't sweat it. I ride almost every day anyways, so I just go on with my ride and don't really think twice about it.

I do feel lucky to get lessons at all... I don't show and I'm not a big-dollar client.

[monstrpony]

Sounds like my farrier ....

[magnolia73]

Honestly- my old trainer used to work with a friend of mine. Friend complained that she often could not get a lesson with trainer- it was pulling teeth, including many occasions where trainer would show up at the barn for another client but not teach friend. Trainer would drive an hour to teach me and a friend and spoke of the need to have more clients... still would not teach friend.

Trainer did not like friend very much, and friend with talking often expanded a 2 minute call to schedule a lesson into an hour conversation about nothing. Lessons were the same way. Trainer was waiting for friend to get hint.

If I were her, I'd just flat out ask- is it convenient for your to continue to teach me, or do I need to go elsewhere? If he says "Yes, I enjoy teaching you" then she can follow with the need for more notice with lesson time changes due to work. If he says "well, I am very busy these days" he has a nice out and she can go elsewhere.

[tabula rashah]

[QUOTE=Woodland;4372525]IMHO if a trainer has "international experience" and is any good they would not have time to come to another barn for one person's lesson. QUOTE]

Yeah, um this statement is pretty much ridiculous.

But anyway, I'm more of the mind that if it isn't driving her nuts then its not a huge deal. I really don't think trainers cancelling is a "respect" issue- just a super busy, things change by the minute when horses are your career issue.

[Thomas_1]

I'd be wondering how on earth I'd allowed myself to be used and treated that way and considering what I needed to do differently so that others knew they didn't have permission to treat me like some passive victim of their bad behaviour.

It makes no difference whatsoever what WE think of the trainer's behaviour and actions. What matters is what your "friend" thinks of it.

No point finding a new trainer until your "friend" sorts out her expectations and decides for herself what does and doesn't suit her. Sounds to me like she's happy with it and has allowed it.

Not your trainer though so the fact that you don't like it or I might think it's disorganised and unprofessional is irrelevent.

I'd suggest your friend grows some guts and either tells you to mind your own business because it's what she's happy with or else tells the trainer what the rules and requirements are.

[Dispatcher]

There are plenty of good trainers around who practice, good, common courtesy. This guy is not one of them. I'd find another trainer to give my money to. When I'm buying a professional's service, I expect to get professional treatment.

[ReSomething]

Pretty much agree with Thomas 1. It either is an issue or it isn't and it is up to your friend to have the talk with the trainer if he/she so chooses.

[AKB]

She needs to write a list of the pro's and cons of dealing with this trainer. If he is really awesome on the occasions when he shows up, she should consider keeping him. In my mind, he would have to be truly incredible to be even possibly worth the aggravation. She needs to find out what is available in the area. She might be happier trailering to someone good once every 2 weeks rather than waiting around for this self centered jerk.

[TheRedFox]

If it were me, I would probably drop the trainer. Sounds like too much valuable time has been spent waiting around for this guy instead of time spent on valuable instruction. If I were to keep him around, I would charge him his instruction fee for the days that he doesnt show up/call/text. I am so sorry to hear that people find this sort of practice acceptable. Some people get so absorbed in themselves that they forget about "the little people". It's so important to remain humble in this business because you never know if you are going to need to fully rely on those little people. Accidents happen. He could take a nasty spill and never be able to get back into the saddle again and go broke. If he decided to remain in the business and relied solely on lessons for income, he's not doing himself any favors by burning his bridges. I hope this issue becomes resolved and I hope that another trainer with more tact comes along that wont leave you hanging.

[goeslikestink]

Time to find a new trainer! IMHO if a trainer has "international experience" and is any good they would not have time to come to another barn for one person's lesson. So find someone else.

exactly

[goeslikestink]

I'd be wondering how on earth I'd allowed myself to be used and treated that way and considering what I needed to do differently so that others knew they didn't have permission to treat me like some passive victim of their bad behaviour.

It makes no difference whatsoever what WE think of the trainer's behaviour and actions. What matters is what your "friend" thinks of it.

No point finding a new trainer until your "friend" sorts out her expectations and decides for herself what does and doesn't suit her. Sounds to me like she's happy with it and has allowed it.

Not your trainer though so the fact that you don't like it or I might think it's disorganised and unprofessional is irrelevent.

I'd suggest your friend grows some guts and either tells you to mind your own business because it's what she's happy with or else tells the trainer what the rules and requirements are.

agree with that too

[BuddyRoo]

I think if it were me, I'd try to line up someone to train with on a regular basis and then treat lessons with this trainer as more of a "clinic".

I would probably say something to the trainer like, "Trainer, I really appreciate the time you've been able to spend with me/horse. I enjoy our lessons. However, in order to keep working with you, I need to have a more solid schedule and commitment. If that's not something you feel you can do at this time, I understand. I'm unable to continue taking time off work and then have my lessons canceled. I'm sure you understand. Let me know when/if you're able to commit to a more consistent training schedule--even once a month would be great for me. Thanks again!"

I personally would be pretty excited to work with someone (even a rather eccentric and/or self centered someone) who was helping me achieve my goals. I would be willing to accommodate some things...but my time is valuable as well and I simply cannot allow my personal hobby to impact my career when there's no upside. IE: I take off work, potentially get the grumblies at work, and then trainer no shows.

Maybe setting up something once a month on a weekend morning...early...maybe that would work. Or first thing in the a.m. during the week....something at the beginning of the day where trainer is less likely to get side tracked.

[JohnDeere]

If she trailers to him (just sayin) would it be more consistant? Would trainer still cancel? I think that would anwser your ? right there.

Personally Id hightail it but Im funny that way.

[Ambrey]

I just couldn't do it- if I don't have something regular and reliable, the whole system falls apart. If your friend can handle it, that's one thing. If it's bothering her and affecting her relationship with the trainer, that's another. Different people need different things from a training relationship.

How much is she going to learn from him if she's just angry about how he's managing her business all the time? You have to wonder.

[Come Shine]

Aside from the obvious lack of courtesy about cancelling, I would really wonder how much thought and effort is going into the lessons.

My trainer builds on the concepts she is teaching one week to the next. How does you friend's trainer even remember what they are doing if they are cancelling so frequently?

[Donkey]

If she likes the instruction and she likes the results and she is fortunate to have a flexible schedule I say put up with it for as long as she is willing.

Maybe attending a clinic or a couple lessons with a different instructor will put some perspective back as to whether it is worth it or not.

[stryder]

This is really the question - if the trainer really is what you want, really top notch in all respects except for an eccentricity like this, do you put up with some...eccentricity...and how much.

To me, the benefits of a transaction have to outweigh the costs. Only she can decide that.

But no, after a couple of no-shows I would probably sever the relationship. Not just wander away, but call to say, "I get the distinct impression that my business is not important to you, by the disrespectful way you treat my time. If, in the future, you're at a place where I could schedule an appointment and expect you to keep it, I'd love to study with you again. Just let me know."

He may treat only her like this, because she lets him.

[katarine]

I guess that your pal can't be all that and a bag of internationally medaled bag of chips, or trainer would be finding time to make her shine, shine, shine.

He's obviously not that into her, and he'd be fired were he disrespecting my time in this way.

[Chief2]

Having been a serious student of seriously international caliber teaching and performing professionals for decades, I can tell you that when busy teachers of international caliber have a student they seriously want to work with, they make the time and do just that. I never had this problem in my studies, but I know of more than a few who have. The schedule may, by necessity be done in blocks of weeks, with several weeks of interrupted progress, or have time blocks varying in time size and scheduling to accomodate a busy schedule, but they will at least try to get the job done.

When they have a student they don't really want to put the time and effort into, they make excuses 'from the airport', etc to buy time and hope the student will get the hint and drop out. The reason most of them do the "oh, gee, I'm at the airport and..." routine is that the student in question either doesn't really put in as much serious time into preparing for their lesson as they think they do (which given your friend's schedule, work and family responsibilities may be the case), is herself a real flake about scheduling, or is a real PITA to teach anything to, always whining, arguing, never practicing what they are asked to, etc. Dropping is always distasteful, so these folks let things slide until the student goes away. To me it is unprofessional behavior and rude, but they do it so there you go. It is a rare, highly skilled, international professional who got to where they are by being a flake themselves.

Your friend, (or you, if such is the case) needs to either nail down this slippery instructor and get to the crux of this matter, or move on. Obviously he is not taking this seriously, and in his eyes, the student may not be either.

[Mtn trails]

If it were me, I would probably find another trainer. One that knows how to tell time and has at least a small amount of respect for other people. I would hate to block out the time, go the barn, be all warmed up and counting on a lesson that day, and no trainer.

I did have one trainer that I took lessons with once a week at her barn. So I'd go through all the trouble of hooking up the trailer, loading horse, and driving over there. Half the time the lesson started [I]at least[I] an hour late and the rest of the time she scheduled something else that day and didn't bother to call and reschedule. I dropped her after about 5 lessons. I wonder how she keeps her business going.

[Saidapal]

Have to agree with Chief2. Rather a passive/aggresive way of handling something but it's done all the time. People hate confrontation as a rule.

Personally, I might be little Saidapal in Florida, but I work hard for my money and it's not easy for me to get off work for a lesson. After a few times I'm afraid I would try to find someone else. I like the idea of finding a good regular teacher and using this guy for 'bonus' lessons.

We had a really good upper level rider giving us instructions at our barn, but it was made very clear from the start that we had to have at least 4 riders for it to make her time worthwhile. She came twice a month. We had more people lined up incase somebody had to bail. She would call a few days in advance to see what time she needed to show up (depending on how many we had) and it worked well for years.

Maybe lining up more than one rider per session would make him feel his time was better spent.

[LuvMyTB]

He's just not that into her.

[BuddyRoo]

He's just not that into her.


:lol:

[laskiblue]

Compare the gist of this story -- which I see to be flakiness and unprofessionalism on the part of the trainer -- and place those same elements into the frequent messed-up boarding situations we hear about so often on COTH. :yes: Yup, same answer -- end it now.

I think it would be better to have a talented yet "non-internationally acclaimed" trainer working consistently with me rather than getting frustrated and being uncertain whether Ms. or Mr. Whoopedeedoo Famous Trainer is going to bother showing up today.

I like BuddyRoo's idea of thinking of the lessons that can be obtained with Famous Trainer as a clinic situation rather than a steady source of lessons. After all, if someone can't be bothered to show up as agreed for your lessons, I guess they can't be bothered to take your hard-earned money for them as well.

[slc2]

The topic isn't about 'what should she do'. She's happy with the situation for now. I was just wondering what others would do, and their reasoning. Some folks are pretty laid back about it, others find it extremely rude.

I think it's important to be tolerant when someone can't show up due to an illness or a sick horse, or in one case at my place, the trainer had a student coming in from another state with PLENTY of time allowed....the ship in had trouble with her truck and was hours late, and I switched times with her on short notice. She got to drive in without frantically trying to make up time, and I got my lesson in. Everybody happy.

I also think - trainers have a life too. If once in a while, someone just needs some flexibility in their schedule, I don't think it's a big deal. The only time it becomes a problem for me is when I have something else I've already paid for to attend, that I'd miss, or if it would cause difficulty at work or inconvenience someone else who is expecting something out of me.

I've had both situations-trainers that I thought handled this fairly, and those who did not.

It's sparked some conversations and has been an interesting subject.

[Trevelyan96]

I think if it were me, I'd try to line up someone to train with on a regular basis and then treat lessons with this trainer as more of a "clinic".


Ditto.

[RainyDayRide]

Sometimes the reasons sound really decent, one time, her friend saw the guy at a party when he had told her he was sick...LOL.



That would finish him for me.. he believes lying is ok (maybe just social white lies, but...) He obviously doesn't take her seriously.

Unless he is an amazingly insightful and helpful trainer during the sessions they do have, I'm surprised she hasn't looked elsewhere for more reliable instruction. It's not the medals he has won, it is the amount she is learning.

[slc2]

Well and I think that's what she weighs against that. She's very happy with how the horse is going and she says when she shows she's very happy with the results. I think it's just an individual thing. Some people would say 'enough' at the party thing, I do know that.

[Equibrit]

It's fine if you are a doormat.

[dghunter]

It's fine if you are a doormat.

:lol::lol::yes:

[gottagrey]

trainer sounds like an abusive relationship and your friend is just letting him/her get away with it, i.e. enabling bad behavior. trainer obviously doesn't realize/respect she adjust her schedule to fit with their mutually agreed upon schedule; cancelling at the last minute is disrespectful. Yes, things, emergencies do come up - an emergency trip to Europe is not one of them unless. Friend needs to get over this trainer w/ their international experience - all that experience is for naught if you can't keep to a schedule..

[Speedy]

I am an attorney - and if I treated my own clients in the way that some trainers treat theirs, I wouldn't have a legal practice. No one (I promise) is ever going to say, "Gee, Speedy is such a GREAT attorney, she really deserves to have a life, it's not such a bad thing that she didn't show to [INSERT COURT DATE, DISCOVERY DEADLINE OR CLOSING DATE HERE]...we'll just reschedule. Hopefully she had a good time doing [INSERT PERSONAL ACTIVITY HERE] today, I am so glad that she is able to just take some time for herself now and then!" Seriously, a client's time is as valuable as her trainer's (and, actually, if you do the math, more valuable, in most cases) and it is first and foremost a business relationship. If the trainer isn't going to hold up her end of the bargain by showing up on a regular basis at the agreed upon time, the client should find another trainer. Good trainers are hard, but not impossible, to find.

I am constantly amazed by what people put up with in the horse industry.

[Auventera Two]

It really doesn't matter what friend thinks of trainer. What REALLY matters is what the trainer thinks of the friend. If you have a really top notch, big time trainer coming to a barn to give a lesson to a solitary rider, then obviously the trainer feels this rider is WORTH IT. If trainer is skipping, canceling, and otherwise blowing off rider, then trainer has decided that this rider is not worth the time and effort.

At that point, it's time to part ways and move on.

This concept was really clear when I audited a GM clinic. He clearly picked out the top few riders that were REALLY talented, on their game, professional, dedicated, and serious. (Now, you'd think that EVERYBODY who pays $$$$ to participate in a GM clinic would be, but ehhhh,,,, not really.)

He assessed the riders, decided which were worth the bulk of his time and effort, and the focus went there. The putzy putzes that were not heeding his advice - he pretty much said eff you. If you aren't really serious about this, then get on the rail, drop your stirrups, and do a posting trot for 20 minutes. See how you like that. And while you're doing that, I'm going to be schooling this horse and rider over this line of 3'6".

When I do something - sign up for lessons, do a clinic, go to a show, etc.....I dedicate myself 100%. I don't expect to be taken seriously if I don't. If I dedicate myself completely, and the professional on the other end of the equation slacks on their part, then I'm out of there. A judge who's chatting on a cell phone, an instructor yelling at her kid while I'm in the arena - nope. Ain't gonna happen. It's a 2-way street. I give 100% - you give 100%.

Somewhere along the line slc, either your friend, the trainer, or both quit giving 100%. And when that happens, again, it's time to move on.

[Auventera Two]

The topic isn't about 'what should she do'. She's happy with the situation for now. I was just wondering what others would do, and their reasoning. Some folks are pretty laid back about it, others find it extremely rude.

From the info given, it is clear that someone dropped the ball somewhere, and if it cannot be amicably resolved, then it's time to part ways.

A professional should never "just not show up." They should be professional enough to say "This is not working for XYZ reasons, and therefore I would advise you to seek another trainer."

[Gloria]

Sometimes the reasons sound really decent, one time, her friend saw the guy at a party when he had told her he was sick...LOL.

He (the trainer) has just simply not shown up without calling several times over two years. He has also sent a text message fifteen minutes before a lesson appointment to cancel.


1/3 of lessons got cancelled, and she did not get advanced notice for some of them? I would be shopping for another trainer.

Yes. The trainer is busy and his time is valuable, but so is mine. I value my time extremely well and I definitely don't appreciate anyone wasting my time like no one's business. This guy shows lack of professionalism and I simply don't have time wasting on someone like that.

Things come up and I totally understand and accept cancelled or scheduled lessons. But what is happening to this gal is beyond acceptable tolerance in my book.

But that is me. I guess she needs to decide whether her time or this trainer is more valuable to her. If the trainer is more important, then tolerate it and stick with him. Otherwise, if her time is more important, fire him.

[alacrity]

I'd be wondering how on earth I'd allowed myself to be used and treated that way and considering what I needed to do differently so that others knew they didn't have permission to treat me like some passive victim of their bad behaviour.

That is what I'd do.

Your friend (and/or her horse) isn't a priority for this trainer. But hey, if she is OK with it and satisfied with the situation she's welcome to pay for the privilege of being #3000+ on the trainer's priority list.

[Dispatcher]

Then there's always the possibility she wants to be able to say that she trained with BNT for x many of years. You know, beef up her resume, improve her standing, things of that sort......

[findeight]

If friend is fine with this sobeit.

But, were it me? I'd take the hint I was nowhere near the top of this guy's list of clients. Especially after the sick to go to the party stunt.

[lwk]

For several years, I have had a farrier who likes to keep a highly variable schedule. And I work in IT too.
After the first missed appointment, I had a talk with him and explained that I can be flexible, but if he wants to postpone a shoeing, he needs to call me on my cell phone BEFORE I leave work early to meet him. And if he wants to do it a day or two earlier, he needs to let me know a day or two before that so I can make appropriate plans.
He's been very good about communication since then and I am happy with his work.

[smm20]

Here is what I would do:

I would have a chat with the trainer to make sure that he still wants to continue our relationship. Does he find that my lessons are a waste of his time? Am I putting in enough effort? Does he see improvement and feel motivated to continue working with me?

If he really doesn't want to continue training me, then I ask him to help me find another trainer (as long as I value his opinion).

If he is feeling wishy-washy, we figure out how I can improve as a rider to make it worth his time.

If he does want to continue training, and the problem is that he is flaky, then we work out (together) a system to ensure that lessons happen.

Some options to make lessons happen include: 1) I text trainer 2 hours before scheduled lesson - "lesson today - still on?" this reminds trainer that he needs to be there, 2) I call trainer morning of lesson to make sure that he remembers, 3) I help trainer assess his organization system - does he have a day planner or a white board with a weekly schedule on it? 4) since trainer lives 5 minutes away, I trailer over for lesson.

Now, in a perfect world, the student shouldn't have to go to these lengths to get a service that she is paying for, but in reality, sometimes it is easier to change your behavior than to wait forever for the other person to change their ways. You just need to decide whether it is worth it.