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fxhillfarm
Sep. 14, 2009, 06:13 AM
I did a search for something similar but couldn't find one.

Anyway, I've been given the oppurtunity to show a super fancy pony, IF i can get him to measure in as a large pony.

He's estimated to be 14.3 (broken stick)but with very high withers.. he definately looks like a pony, so no reason we should be protested.. I'm looking for any tricks we can try to get this thing to measure in! Obviously we'll try the pulling the shoes, trimming the feet, practicing alot to make him relax BUT do any of you know of any special (HUMANE) tricks that have worked for you? I'm not talking chopping his withers off or any of that horrible stuff people talk about, or medication etc. etc. Just quick tips!

Not looking to start a train wreck!

TIA!!

lauriep
Sep. 14, 2009, 08:03 AM
Oh, boy, do you really want to throw yourself out for slaughter like that? Don't you know that on this BB there are questions you JUST CAN'T ASK? Find a pony trainer to ask and delete your question, quickly, before the feeding frenzy begins!

toomanyponies
Sep. 14, 2009, 08:38 AM
Oh, boy, do you really want to throw yourself out for slaughter like that? Don't you know that on this BB there are questions you JUST CAN'T ASK? Find a pony trainer to ask and delete your question, quickly, before the feeding frenzy begins!

haha!!! so true - BUT here's the answer. A lot of extra height is nerves. So, Yes, practice, practice, practice. And get a measuring tape and measure your stick. The unofficial ones can be as much as 1/4 to 1/2 inch off (mine was over 1/4 off). Figure out where the real 14.2 is. For practice, use the same halter and lead rope you will use to have him measured in. Teach him to walk right into the BEST position for him. Play around at home with with back legs as well - they can make a difference. Play around with the head - poll level with the withers is not always the best spot. And I mean practice - every day, twice a day for weeks - until when he feels that stick on him he sighs like its a massage. LOL. AND then have strangers practice on him. Once you can reliably get the measure at home, youre ready for step 2. If you arent sure you can ask a local steward if they would mind showing you exactly where/how to position the stick. (if he has shoes measure the shoes and subtract)

Now since you have to have him measured at a show, make sure he's been to some shows,so it's not a big deal. Now ride him and work him on the flat. Give him a bath. Put him away and let him eat hay. Now ride him again, and jump a bunch of small jumps. Put him away and then take him to be measured. Take him early to the spot so he has time to look around and relax. If his head is not in your lap with one leg resting, he's too fresh and interested.

Finally, pick a show where you are the only pony likely to get measured. This way the vet and steward have lots of time and are willing to work with you. Dont go to a show the beginning of Dec when every one is also getting their green ponies measured.

thegirlwonder
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:00 AM
or you could send it to a big "A" show pony barn and "ask for a favor".. LoL

Cranky Agnes
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:04 AM
or you could send it to a big "A" show pony barn and "ask for a favor".. LoL

Um, or you could just be HONEST and show him for what he is...a small hunter. But really what would be the sportsmanship is in THAT, right? :rolleyes:

englishivy
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:06 AM
Just gonna throw this out there....

If you get a large measurement, even with a permanent card (6 yrs old or over), that doesn't mean someone can't protest your pony and have it remeasured. And if found to be a hony, all those points you've earned throughout the year are worthless since you now have to move to a horse division. Although I believe you can appeal a measurement, I'm not 100% positive on the process and there's no guarantee you'd win.

I have a pony that stands 14.2 1/2 with shoes that could easily go large with the right set up, shoes off, etc. But she looks like a horse in EVERY way except the height. So should we "luck out" and get that card, it is quite possible people are going to piss and moan about it and I could end up getting remeasured. That is why it is so important that your pony consistently measure under, without all the "trickery", as you never know when you could get measured again.

thegirlwonder
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:14 AM
Um, or you could just be HONEST and show him for what he is...a small hunter. But really what would be the sportsmanship is in THAT, right? :rolleyes:

LoL its not something I would ever do with one of my ponies, but there was a time and I guess its still done - where one trainer would send another a "pony" to be measured and because one steward or another owed them a favor that "pony" would measure. I remember when I rode at a hunter barn in SC, we got in a pony "to sell" that had shown against me all year and beaten me out as Champion to my Reserve at almost every show in the Green Ponies.. needless to say that when we "stuck" that pony - he was every inch of 15.1hh. Fortunately that trainer had morals and sent the pony back from whence he came.
:yes:

Giddy-up
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:16 AM
Just gonna throw this out there....

If you get a large measurement, even with a permanent card (6 yrs old or over), that doesn't mean someone can't protest your pony and have it remeasured. And if found to be a hony, all those points you've earned throughout the year are worthless since you now have to move to a horse division. Although I believe you can appeal a measurement, I'm not 100% positive on the process and there's no guarantee you'd win.

I have a pony that stands 14.2 1/2 with shoes that could easily go large with the right set up, shoes off, etc. But she looks like a horse in EVERY way except the height. So should we "luck out" and get that card, it is quite possible people are going to piss and moan about it and I could end up getting remeasured. That is why it is so important that your pony consistently measure under, without all the "trickery", as you never know when you could get measured again.

I agree--you can be protested & most likely will if pony really looks that big (and is). Not sure how many times you can be protested, but is that something you are going to always want to be dealing with?

wyldhorseb
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:30 AM
Why don't you just show as a horse in the Children's Hunters rather than screwing around with the hony to get it to measure a large? It's the same height. And if your hony should get down the children's lines..

ponymom64
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:51 AM
FWIW - there are a lot of oversized ponies out there and very few get protested.......

Trees4U
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:54 AM
Agree with ponymom

and to wyldhorseb- its $$$

Limerick
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:57 AM
Don't you have to pay to protest?? Surely that limits the protests? An inch is a lot to take off in a measurement from what I've been told.

sansibar
Sep. 14, 2009, 09:59 AM
FWIW - there are a lot of oversized ponies out there and very few get protested.......

agreed

There I can list several horses showing in the pony divisions right now.

spmoonie
Sep. 14, 2009, 10:01 AM
Try to find a farrier that specializes in AQHA horses; they tend to be really good at making the hooves as small as physically possible. ;)

To the OP, I feel your pain. I ride a SUPER fancy pony that would be capable of being competetive at pony finals, etc. but we are afraid she just may be 14.3. :(

Nickelodian
Sep. 14, 2009, 10:03 AM
There are plenty of LEGAL ways to get a "hony" to measure in. If everything done is legal (hacking out, making sure they're relaxed, etc), then I'm not sure where the lack of sportsmanship lies?

Blue Bunny
Sep. 14, 2009, 10:04 AM
Many people do things to make a hony a pony. I say if it's a matter of removing shoes, trimming the feet and hacking out, go for it.:D

findeight
Sep. 14, 2009, 11:20 AM
FWIW - there are a lot of oversized ponies out there and very few get protested.......

Ummm...not exactly...and it can be quite spectacular as it was at Indoors a few years back when a bunch were remeasured-and busted. IIRC that was a mandatory remeasure for all???

Happens more then you think, people just don't care to share that little tidbit with a buyer. Or they change the name and come back as "Green" in their new division:rolleyes:, at least until somebody gets fed up and protests or threatens to do so and it disappears from the Pony ranks. But most sell them as SS mounts and sometimes the Mediums and Smalls that measure over can go to Children's Ponies. But not a Large that measures over, it's a lesson Pony.

For the OP here, an INCH is alot to make disappear and I am afraid nobody is in the yellow pages under "Pony Trainers that will "make 'em fit". Doubt most of the reputable ones will take one that is a full inch over on. because the only tricks that would work for that much over are....questionable. The "super special" tricks...are places you do not want to go.

And you can and WILL get protested and remeasured. But only of you are good, nobody cares if you suck. Plus it costs to get the measure and it will cost more to get a Pro to try to get it under that stick...and if it busts at that measure? Waste of money.

Awful lot af cavalier statements thrown out there about this that really don't reflect the majority. Yeah, some cheat-but that would probably be about the only way you could lose a whole inch, plus a little more so you don't bust a protest remeasure.

1/4 to 1/2"? yeah. Shoes off, shave the HAIR off the wither, get 'em a little, or alot, tired and try to get it measured on a warm day, PM preferably. And tons of practice with that official stick with the swing arm.

Alterrain
Sep. 14, 2009, 11:38 AM
I don't know if it's diff w/ ponies, but last month my trainer had a small junior hunter get measured (it was a HARD measure) and this is what she did:

1. practise at home

2. pick a HOT day. and not tuesday, when you just get to the show. thursday is better.

3. ride the pony until he is tired

4. take the shoes off, trim the feet a little short, clip the withers with a #50 blade.

5. put him on the lunge line. ideally a slow trot for 30-40 mins. relaxation is the goal! not death :)

6. give him his normal show meds

7. once on the concrete, does it have a slight slope? turn him around so the steward is on the high side.

8. get him to stand out- pet him, rub his ears, get him to yawn while steward measures

9. pray!

Good luck! remember, if you take the shoes off, ask the vet to let you jog on the grass, not the rocks!

findeight
Sep. 14, 2009, 11:51 AM
Yeah but....

You do NOT get to pick when that measurement will be done. The show scheduals it...and that schedual is posted AFTER the office opens for check ins...and that posted time and place can CHANGE depending upon availabliity of the show vet and steward. Above poster got lucky on the time there.

Measurement is only done at USEF rated shows and not at all of them. You must be entered in at least one class which means that, even if you scratch, it's going to cost you and you usually (depending on where you are) will need to get a stall to wait for them to figure out the when part during a 5 day show or if you get there and they move it back a day.

If you bust, there is a process where you can appeal and remeasure...which pretty much means a repeat of the above with a likely repeat of the costs involved-and the result.

Again, most of the more reputable won't intentionally buy one without a permanent card that is questionable (and more then a few carry a stick with them Pony shopping parmanent card or not) and cannot imagine they would take one on for an outside short term client that is a full inch over.

The Pony trainer does not want to present one that measures over-2 hours and everybody in the barn knows and that is not the kind of impression that bodes well.

ponymom64
Sep. 14, 2009, 12:03 PM
Ummm...not exactly...and it can be quite spectacular as it was at Indoors a few years back when a bunch were remeasured-and busted. IIRC that was a mandatory remeasure for all???

Happens more then you think, people just don't care to share that little tidbit with a buyer. Or they change the name and come back as "Green" in their new division:rolleyes:, at least until somebody gets fed up and protests or threatens to do so and it disappears from the Pony ranks. But most sell them as SS mounts and sometimes the Mediums and Smalls that measure over can go to Children's Ponies. But not a Large that measures over, it's a lesson Pony.

For the OP here, an INCH is alot to make disappear and I am afraid nobody is in the yellow pages under "Pony Trainers that will "make 'em fit". Doubt most of the reputable ones will take one that is a full inch over on. because the only tricks that would work for that much over are....questionable. The "super special" tricks...are places you do not want to go.

And you can and WILL get protested and remeasured. But only of you are good, nobody cares if you suck. Plus it costs to get the measure and it will cost more to get a Pro to try to get it under that stick...and if it busts at that measure? Waste of money.

Awful lot af cavalier statements thrown out there about this that really don't reflect the majority. Yeah, some cheat-but that would probably be about the only way you could lose a whole inch, plus a little more so you don't bust a protest remeasure.

1/4 to 1/2"? yeah. Shoes off, shave the HAIR off the wither, get 'em a little, or alot, tired and try to get it measured on a warm day, PM preferably. And tons of practice with that official stick with the swing arm.

Ummmm, we've spent a lot of time standing by the pony ring over the years and without thinking very hard, I can come up with quite a few that are horses and are still showing in the large ponies.

I'm pretty sure the big "bust" you were talking about was when Emerson was still alive so it was a least 8 or 10 years ago if not more. I don't think there has been a major crackdown at Indoors since then.

A whole inch is definitely a lot to get off but I do know of at least one over sized pony a few years ago that had a BNT present it to the steward and away it walked with its' permanent large pony card. It definitely helps to go the BNT route and honestly, if you are in a small barn - I would say you might be more at risk of being protested than if you were with one of the BNB (big name barns) that deal in ponies with other BNB all the time.

Would *I* present a pony that was an inch over? No, I wouldn't, but if you know the right trainer, it can be done and if the pony stays in the right barn it will stay a large pony forever. Just sayin'

CBoylen
Sep. 14, 2009, 12:31 PM
I don't deal with ponies. That said the OP in these kinds of threads always takes a lot of heat, and I don't think many of them are out to torture their pony. They are however all going to give any reasonable measures a try, and so would their critics in their situation. The price difference between a fancy large and a hony in the childrens or small hunters is huge. One is worth six figures and the other is next to worthless.
I would suggest talking to a trainer in your area with a good pony business. They can either help, suggest someone who can, or tell you what to do.

ponymom64
Sep. 14, 2009, 12:43 PM
I don't deal with ponies. That said the OP in these kinds of threads always takes a lot of heat, and I don't think many of them are out to torture their pony. They are however all going to give any reasonable measures a try, and so would their critics in their situation. The price difference between a fancy large and a hony in the childrens or small hunters is huge. One is worth six figures and the other is next to worthless.
I would suggest talking to a trainer in your area with a good pony business. They can either help, suggest someone who can, or tell you what to do.

Well said

kisstherain
Sep. 14, 2009, 01:57 PM
[QUOTE=fxhillfarm;4372469]I've been given the oppurtunity to show a super fancy hony, IF i can get him to measure in as a large pony!:winkgrin:QUOTE]

You just admited on a public forum that your horse is in fact a horse, not a pony, and that you're trying to get him to measure not at his correct hight (complete with a smiley-face emoticon to boot). Nice.

:mad:

Summit Springs Farm
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:08 PM
If a pony/hony can measure a pony then its a pony. period. regardless if on a given day it stands up tall and can get a few millimeters so what?

When you go to the doctor and he measures how tall you are he says take off your shoes!!;)

Calm pony, robaxin, no shoes, clip his withers, learn how to stand him and if you can get him measured so be it.

S A McKee
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:17 PM
If a pony/hony can measure a pony then its a pony. period. regardless if on a given day it stands up tall and can get a few millimeters so what?

When you go to the doctor and he measures how tall you are he says take off your shoes!!;)

Calm pony, robaxin, no shoes, clip his withers, learn how to stand him and if you can get him measured so be it.

Sure, but make sure it will re-measure under every time it gets protested. LOL

magnolia73
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:21 PM
At the end of the day, if a few legal and humane tricks of the trade can get you another couple zeros on the price tag, why not do it? If when the "hony" stands relaxed and shoeless and measures 14'2...then it is a pony....

ExJumper
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:25 PM
[QUOTE=fxhillfarm;4372469]I've been given the oppurtunity to show a super fancy hony, IF i can get him to measure in as a large pony!:winkgrin:QUOTE]

You just admited on a public forum that your horse is in fact a horse, not a pony, and that you're trying to get him to measure not at his correct hight (complete with a smiley-face emoticon to boot). Nice.

:mad:

No she didn't. If her pony/horse doesn't have an official measurement, it's like it was never measured at all. How do you know how she measured it? Maybe she has a crappy stick. Maybe it's 14.1 1/2 but her stick is bad. Maybe it's 14.2 1/4. maybe she used a tape measure. Maybe she used her actual hand to measure the thing, and her hand isn't 4 inches wide. Maybe she walked it up to a 14.1 pony and thought it looked bigger.

It's impossible for her to "admit on a public forum that [her] horse is in fact a horse." If it hasn't been OFFICIALLY measured as a horse OR a pony, it's currently an unmeasured animal in the large pony/small horse range.

There are plenty of valid and non-injurious ways to make a pony relax into a measurement. There's nothing wrong with teaching your pony to relax and trimming it's feet.

And if it gets protested and remeasured and fails, you have a chance to get it remeasured and reinstated. I've seen it done. Sure, it may not end up being worth it if you are unlucky enough to really get protested a lot (which never really happens), but it's certainly worth giving it a try once to see if you can get a large pony rather than a small horse.

Jest
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:33 PM
How many people are willing to cough up the $1000 it will cost to protest? My guess is 1/4 of the smalls are mediums, 1/2 of the mediums are larges, and most of the larges are horses. I can't think of a serious protest in at least the last 10 years.

farmgirl88
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:33 PM
If the pony is not a pony...it doesnt belong in the pony ring....bottom line. If i didnt have to pay a fee for protesting a pony's measurement; i would be walking around the big shows having ponies re-measured all day:yes:

Rules are rules and everyone should abide by them. Ive ridden ponies my whole life and i was never in the situation where people were chopping inches of the pony's feet and lunging the tar out of them so they are beyond relaxed.

I can understand pulling the shoes off the pony and shaving the hair off the withers...but honestly...i'd love to here some of the torture tactics people put these ponies through to get them to measure.

We had a top of the line medium...and he was TOP OF THE LINE. he was under 6 so he had to get his temp. card. He was braided because he was showing that day and the lady measured ON TOP of his braid. We took the braid out and he measured no problem

But those folks who are out there trying to take off an inch or close to it...you people are psycho! this is when the blame goes back to the breeder, etc. but if you knew the hony was over....why would you invest in it as a PONY hunter prospect?

Like i said if they didnt charge you to have ponies re-measured...id be walking around demanding that they all get remeasured. Follow the rules and be fair to everyone else who IS abiding by them.

Janet
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:42 PM
6. give him his normal show meds

What does this mean?

Janet
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:46 PM
How many people are willing to cough up the $1000 it will cost to protest? My guess is 1/4 of the smalls are mediums, 1/2 of the mediums are larges, and most of the larges are horses. I can't think of a serious protest in at least the last 10 years.
I think you have an extra 0 in there.

spmoonie
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:47 PM
What does this mean?

I was thinking the exact same thing. "Normal" show meds??

dauphine2
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:47 PM
What does this mean?

Hopefully not what I think it means. :lol: Unless you're talking about his electrolytes, of course. ;)

snobetty
Sep. 14, 2009, 02:55 PM
if only there were a "small hunters" division for all the very nice horses that grew too big (or never grew quite enough) to actually be competitive in!

I can't imagine being as competitive as I was in the small juniors as if my *refined* mare had measured as a large junior. With the propensity in all the horse divisions for a "bigger is better" look, I don't blame people trying their hearts out to get something borderline to measure as a pony.

ExJumper
Sep. 14, 2009, 03:02 PM
If it measures a pony, it's a pony. What is illegal about that? If it relaxes, is sound barefoot, and has some hair that can be shaved, so what?

fxhillfarm
Sep. 14, 2009, 03:24 PM
Oh my I guess I didn't realize what a controversial subjectt this was! First of all I am not looking to torture the poor creature! Just seeing if anyone has done something different than the norm (but is still HUMANE)!!

Whoever said I just put this out in public, I haven't even measured said pony with a real stick, ours is broken and just gives us a ballpark measurement which is around 14.2. I am looking for ways to make sure he really gets in..

Those who said just to show him as a horse, i understand where your coming from, but like others said, I dont own him, and the owner would like to make some money down the road.

Thanks to those with suggestions, i totally forgot about clipping the withers!! If pony does not measure as a pony, that is fine with me, they also offered me to foxhunt him!

Thanks, I should probably just delete this now:yes:

CenterStage123
Sep. 14, 2009, 03:31 PM
Around where I live, just about every barn has a questionable pony. However, people know that if they question a pony, the barn of the pony will question a pony at there barn. So everyone sucks it up. The questionable pony at my barn was fine with just no shoes, and hacking before hand, so yes it is still a pony. However, there is a pony who is at least an inch bigger that shows against it. I swear its the size of my friends 15.1 hand horse!:eek: But we don't question them if they don't question us and all works out well.

Also, as a side note-- what are the horrible measuring techniques used?:confused: I have only heard of trimming and taking off the shoes, clipping the withers, and hacking the pony around and stuff like that..

S A McKee
Sep. 14, 2009, 03:45 PM
[QUOTE=CenterStage123;4373637]Around where I live, just about every barn has a questionable pony. However, people know that if they question a pony, the barn of the pony will question a pony at there barn. So everyone sucks it up. The questionable pony at my barn was fine with just no shoes, and hacking before hand, so yes it is still a pony. However, there is a pony who is at least an inch bigger that shows against it. I swear its the size of my friends 15.1 hand horse!:eek: But we don't question them if they don't question us and all works out well.

QUOTE]

Ok, because everybody is doing it that makes it OK?
Speaks very well for the pony people and pony trainers.
I wonder if USEF would be interested in this thread?
At least half the proponents of unethical behavior are easily identifiable.

dani0303
Sep. 14, 2009, 03:51 PM
Also, as a side note-- what are the horrible measuring techniques used?:confused: I have only heard of trimming and taking off the shoes, clipping the withers, and hacking the pony around and stuff like that..

The are questionable vets who are rumored to shave bone off of the withers to make a horse measure. Never seen it done, but have heard of it.

ExJumper
Sep. 14, 2009, 03:51 PM
"Cheating" is bribing a steward to fill out a card that says your animal measured 14.1 7/8 when the thing actually measured 14.2 1/4. Learning how to stand your animal up for an advantageous measurement is simply being prepared. If it ACTUALLY measures 14.1 7/8 when you get there and stand the thing up, THEN IT'S A PONY. It's not cheating.

Can someone PLEASE explain to me how the things mentioned in this thread (working the horse, shaving fur, teaching it to relax, pulling its shoes, and figuring out the best place for it to hold its head) are unethical, illegal, or horrible? No one is suggesting she hack off bone.

Seriously. I have NO idea how FOLLOWING THE RULE BOOK is now being considered such a travesty against god and nature. Can someone please explain it for me as I am obviously missing something.

Dramapony_misty
Sep. 14, 2009, 03:55 PM
I remember hearing horror stories (granted this was more backyard 4-H stuff...which was all I could afford to do) about "ponies" being brought to designated measuring appointments...usually not at a show...whose feet were cut so short they left wet hoofprints on the concrete :no: I know (or at least hope) most people would not resort to those drastic measures, but it's amazing what people will do when driven by greed. :mad:

As a result, the offical measurers now get down on their hands and knees and measure the shoe width to deduct that from the overall height, and measure the horse's toe and heel to make sure it isn't drastically short. I also think they need to be jogged out to prove soundness as well.

lauriep
Sep. 14, 2009, 04:07 PM
Don't say I didn't warn you, OP! LOL!

poltroon
Sep. 14, 2009, 04:14 PM
I think the OP would have been smarter to ask, "I have a pony who will be a close measure, how do I prepare" rather than claiming to have a HONY.

By the way, I did the inverse of all these things to get a little more height on my pony. All I got was an extra 1/8". ;)

showmom858
Sep. 14, 2009, 05:35 PM
poltroon - That's so funny that you say that you needed more height on your pony as we were the same way! We knew that DD's pony was a medium/medium. The day the trainer went to take him to get measured he was a bit up and someone said to her are you sure you want to measure him today? Our trainer decided not to and went and got her official measuring stick and when DD arrived they measured him once again at 13.0 1/2 hands. When they finally got his card the next day he measured at 13.0 5/8. Our trainer said she should have let them measure him while he was a bit up because he may have been 13.1!

Bobthehorse
Sep. 14, 2009, 05:47 PM
Try to find a farrier that specializes in AQHA horses; they tend to be really good at making the hooves as small as physically possible. ;)


Well what good is he if he measures as a large but is dead lame from crappy trimming? Well I guess then one could just continue being unethical and bute the crap out of him or denerve him....

Yeah I had a 14.3h hony that had shown in larges his whole life. He was dead lame from having his feet made into little teacups his whole life to make him measure. And then jumping course after course after course on those crappy tiny feet. Recipe for navicular.

Coppers mom
Sep. 14, 2009, 06:00 PM
What I don't understand is why some get their panties in such a twist about a pony being a tiny bit over. The other ponies would still have to make the lines, still have to jump the height, etc. It's not as if there's some huge advantage to being 14.3 vs. 14.2.

Kap
Sep. 14, 2009, 06:09 PM
Well what good is he if he measures as a large but is dead lame from crappy trimming? Well I guess then one could just continue being unethical and bute the crap out of him or denerve him....

Yeah I had a 14.3h hony that had shown in larges his whole life. He was dead lame from having his feet made into little teacups his whole life to make him measure. And then jumping course after course after course on those crappy tiny feet. Recipe for navicular.

I'm fairly sure that spmoonie was being sarcastic.

Alterrain
Sep. 14, 2009, 07:00 PM
What does this mean?

I meant that since it is important to have the pony as quiet/ relaxed as possible, that he should be prepared the same on the measure day as he would a show day. Including meds, if any, that he requires.

poltroon
Sep. 14, 2009, 07:21 PM
What I don't understand is why some get their panties in such a twist about a pony being a tiny bit over. The other ponies would still have to make the lines, still have to jump the height, etc. It's not as if there's some huge advantage to being 14.3 vs. 14.2.

All the height is ridiculous. Why should 14.3 be worth so much less than 15.1? Or for that matter, why should it matter if it's 13.3 vs. 14.1 5/8? Either the animal can do the job or it can't.

The rule is 13.2+ through 14.2. The point of the pony division is the height limit. Remember that the 14.3 pony isn't just competing against 14.1 1/2 but also 13.2 1/2.

JinxyPoo
Sep. 14, 2009, 10:32 PM
All the height is ridiculous. Why should 14.3 be worth so much less than 15.1? Or for that matter, why should it matter if it's 13.3 vs. 14.1 5/8? Either the animal can do the job or it can't.

The rule is 13.2+ through 14.2. The point of the pony division is the height limit. Remember that the 14.3 pony isn't just competing against 14.1 1/2 but also 13.2 1/2.

It's not going to be competing against 13.2 1/2 ponies because those ponies will be shrunk to mediums of course! :cool:

I agree the height seems silly but a 14.3 horse is most likely going to have a hell of a time getting down the lines, where a 15.1 horse has a better shot. Most of the time bigger horse=bigger stride. Really the only way I see around it is shifting the judging focus away from numbers- a hony might look scary doing the "numbers", but look nice adding. Likewise a 17.3 giant might look stupid doing the numbers, good leaving out. But that could be totally unleveling the playing field, plus what's not big enough to make the lines vs. not going forward enough? So that doesn't really work. But that's the best idea I have anyway, lol.

Jumphigh83
Sep. 14, 2009, 10:41 PM
Rules? hahahahahahaaaa Throw them out and have at it! ;)

Coppers mom
Sep. 15, 2009, 08:46 AM
It's not going to be competing against 13.2 1/2 ponies because those ponies will be shrunk to mediums of course! :cool:

I agree the height seems silly but a 14.3 horse is most likely going to have a hell of a time getting down the lines, where a 15.1 horse has a better shot. Most of the time bigger horse=bigger stride. Really the only way I see around it is shifting the judging focus away from numbers- a hony might look scary doing the "numbers", but look nice adding. Likewise a 17.3 giant might look stupid doing the numbers, good leaving out. But that could be totally unleveling the playing field, plus what's not big enough to make the lines vs. not going forward enough? So that doesn't really work. But that's the best idea I have anyway, lol.

But they all have to make the lines, regardless. Don't larges have the distances set exactly the same as the horse divisions?

poltroon
Sep. 15, 2009, 10:09 AM
It's not going to be competing against 13.2 1/2 ponies because those ponies will be shrunk to mediums of course! :cool:

I agree the height seems silly but a 14.3 horse is most likely going to have a hell of a time getting down the lines, where a 15.1 horse has a better shot. Most of the time bigger horse=bigger stride. Really the only way I see around it is shifting the judging focus away from numbers- a hony might look scary doing the "numbers", but look nice adding. Likewise a 17.3 giant might look stupid doing the numbers, good leaving out. But that could be totally unleveling the playing field, plus what's not big enough to make the lines vs. not going forward enough? So that doesn't really work. But that's the best idea I have anyway, lol.

Nonsense.

My 13.3 5/8" can make the strides.

Two inches in height makes little difference in terms of stride length. Stride length is more affected by other angles in the way the animal is put together, and by elasticity and soundness.

One of the longest measured equine strides in history: Secretariat, all of 16.1 hands.

One of the fastest Derby times and one of the most prepotent race sires of all time: Northern Dancer, 15.1 hands.

Go Fish
Sep. 15, 2009, 12:02 PM
Nonsense.

My 13.3 5/8" can make the strides.

Two inches in height makes little difference in terms of stride length. Stride length is more affected by other angles in the way the animal is put together, and by elasticity and soundness.

I often lesson with a medium pony kid whose pony has no problem jumping the 3' fences and making the horse strides. My trainer does not reset the distances for the pony during our lessons and he just cruises down the lines. Pretty impressive.

spmoonie
Sep. 15, 2009, 03:14 PM
Well what good is he if he measures as a large but is dead lame from crappy trimming? Well I guess then one could just continue being unethical and bute the crap out of him or denerve him....

Yeah I had a 14.3h hony that had shown in larges his whole life. He was dead lame from having his feet made into little teacups his whole life to make him measure. And then jumping course after course after course on those crappy tiny feet. Recipe for navicular.


I'm fairly sure that spmoonie was being sarcastic.

Yes, I was being very sarcastic.

findeight
Sep. 15, 2009, 03:36 PM
But they all have to make the lines, regardless. Don't larges have the distances set exactly the same as the horse divisions?

Sort off. A bit less then the standard 3' Adult and Children's courses at a 12' step base with some lines set up to 12'6" or so. Probably not see anything over 12' in the Ponies with a few a bit under that at the average USEF rated. Large Greens, of course, can be a little less. Somebody posted a course designers guide a few months ago...IIRC it ran from 11'6" to 12' for the Regular Larges.

Don't forget it's Hunters here-style and making it look easy. Just because they can make a line does not mean they can jump beautifully off that step. Bigger is not always better but it can look better in a class that is all about perception. Hence the loss of a zero on the price if it measures over and becomes the smallest in the next division or measures o. u. t. of Ponies altogether.

bascher
Sep. 15, 2009, 03:48 PM
Just because they can make a line does not mean they can jump beautifully off that step.

I completely agree! Far too often I've seen ponies/horses that technically can do the strides, but they have to run flat out to get them. In the world of hunters, I just think it makes the overall appearance of the trip look choppy and less refined, even if all the distances are perfect.

Janet
Sep. 15, 2009, 04:29 PM
I agree the height seems silly but a 14.3 horse is most likely going to have a hell of a time getting down the lines, where a 15.1 horse has a better shot. Depends on the horse.

I showed a 14'3" horse at Training Level eventing (3'3") and he had no troubke making the lines- either there or in the occassional hunter class I took him to. Nor did Farnley Hawkeye (former show pony), who was competing Training at the same time.

tinlizzie
Sep. 15, 2009, 05:25 PM
It's not always just the animals ability to do the height/distances that makes the difference in prices - except maybe in the case of a 14.3 hand hony. I have had to explain this several times to clients with ponies that are small for their division. Part of the issue is that the smaller the division usually the less competitive it is because at least some of the kids are younger and less experienced (obviously this is not true at every show but as an overall trend it applies). So say you've got a not totally tiny novice rider just starting the division. Where would you rather have her compete - in the smalls on a top of the line or in the mediums against more experienced kids. Also, once you move up a division you'd probably like to show on that pony as long as possible without outgrowing it. What I've found is that the price tag depends on the ponies ability to do the height etc. and make it look easy, and its OVERALL size. I have an under 14.1 large but you'd never think it from looking at him and no one cares pricewise and had a 14.1 1/2 large that was hard to sell because it didn't look good with a bigger child even though it did the step and jumps with no problem.