pulling shoes for long layup - what do I need to know?

[Lori B]

My TB mare is going to be out of work for at least the next 9 months, as we continue to try to heal her left front suspensory. There is an outside chance I'll be turning her out for a year, but it is more likely that she will be in some mix of stall rest and small paddock turnout as we go through additional treatments and the rest and hand-walking associated therewith.

She is 7. She wears shoes all around, has for a couple years. Has decent feet, but was more comfortable when in work wearing shoes than not.

Will be discussing this with the farrier on his next visit, but unless he has some kind of substantive objections, it is my plan to pull her shoes for this long rehab.

1) Are there any reasons NOT to do this? She will not be ridden again for months, and then at the walk, for brief periods.

2) What do I need to do / know to make this transition comfortable for her? We have had moderate rain and the ground is not rock hard here in Maryland (in fact it's very wet today!), so I don't worry that she will be particularly sore in her paddock.

She will of course continue to get regular trims and basic foot care during this time.

[judybigredpony]

I have a colt w/ a hock injury and he is in for some stall rest and then slow transition to long time turn--out. Same state:)

Just don't let the farrier take of any or to much foot when he pulls the shoes and keep up your trimming on a regular bases. 1. so not to get a long toe or under run heel and irritate the suspensory and 2. you want to make sure her foot doesn't spread and pan-cake out. Thats a tough one to recover. But she should be fine. If she is on turn-out once ground gets rock hard I usually hang onto some old but not worn out shoes and just put on front so they are comfortable on the rutted frozen ground (if it ever freezes here)
I also like to Kerritix once a week and as soon as feet are trimmed to help w/ transitioning to bare foot.

[Equus_girl]

Did you discuss pulling shoes off with your vet? I believe vet and farrier have to be working on this decision together with you as its very individual.

There are different theories on keeping shoes on/barefeet horses with soft tissue injuries. Some believe shoes have to stay on to help with support/take pressure off injured tendon/ligament, and some believe shoes will make the situation worse.

There is no reason to keep hind shoes on, so these can get off safely, as for front, I can only share my experience.

My guy has a DDFT injury and before was about to be turned out in a pasture I pulled shoes off, which backfired big time. His hind feet started looking okay after about 3 months, but we could never get his front feet right. I believe he was not a good candidate for barefeet to start with, but I wanted to give it a shot nevertheless. We struggled for about 6 months, he was on and off lame and ouchy most of the time. I finally gave up, and shoes went back on again, after talking to the vet and taking x-rays. Horse became instantly sound and much more comfortable. We also use rubber pad to take pressure off his injured tendon.
In fact, even with his pretty severe injury, he is 0.5/5 sound with shoes and 2/5 without them.

I tried using boots to help with transition but ended up with badly bruised heels, so I have mixed feelings about them, plus you are not going to be riding, and mare is staying in stall/paddock, so you mostly probably won't need them.

[Guilherme]

If the horse needs shoes to stay comfortable why are you going to pull them?

There's nothing wrong with pulling shoes on a horse that stays comfortable barefoot. To pull shoes on a horse that needs them is poor husbandry.

G.

[Equus_girl]

Iyou want to make sure her foot doesn't spread and pan-cake out

I thought its a good thing for foot to spread out? More hoof- more support- better weight distribution? Plus, wouldn't it be natural for a hoof to start growing better and in a more spread out natural shape after the shoes are gone?

[Lori B]

Guilherme, she only needs shoes, as far as I can tell, when she's in work. She's not going to be doing any work, just walking in hand and standing around in a paddock and her stall.

The reasons to do it are cost, and because I have heard that it is regarded as customary. The treatment for her suspensory is probably insured, but I will have to pay a stall board markup and various other costs associated with this injury. I will have to be paying some young ladies to assist me w/ the hand grazing when I want to do crazy things like eat dinner w/ my family at a normal time.

So that is why, if it is not going to harm her, I would pull her shoes for the next 9 months+.

Edited to add that in the original post I do note that I'll discuss this with farrier, and should have said, vet. Of course. My question is still, are there other considerations I should be aware of when doing this?

[Lori B]

And when we are ready to work under saddle again, I would be putting them back on. Which could be a year away.

[Perfect Pony]

My vet thought it was a great idea for my mares lay-up. That said, I knew she had good feet so I just pulled them off and that was that. I second the person who said make sure your farrier doesn't trim them like a shod horse though! A friend pulled her horses shoes for a long lay up and he was fine until the farrier chops his feet off like a shod trim, now he is in boots while the soles grow again.

My mare is doing so well barefoot I am debating whether to put the shoes back on or not...

[FlashGordon]

My only concern would be foot soreness that may cause her to rock back on to her hind end. You'd hate to put any more stress on her legs. The thing is, some horses don't get terribly sore, some do, so it is hard to know how she may react.

If you get some good boots with inserts and paint her soles with Durasole she may do just fine. I had issues with boots at my boarding barn so I used to wrap Win's feet with rolled cotton, vetwrap, and duct tape. Then put one of these over top: http://www.smartpakequine.com/ProductClass.aspx?productclassid=6183 I did have to replace it at least every other day but it worked.

Talk to your vet and farrier and if they give the ok... boot her up, bed her stall deeply, paint those soles and see how she does. Worst case scenario you throw the shoes back on.

Ditto those who said to watch the trim, you won't want your farrier taking too much sole off and her walls should be rolled to prevent chipping.

[Lori B]

Hmmmm.

Your routine, FG, sounds like more than I want to sign up for. Of course, Win was having a bunch of foot trouble and getting over a very bad trim early on, I recall. I think my farrier would be able to do an appropriate trim for barefoot life, he has a number of clients who only do trims now anyway.

I will ask farrier & vet what they think. We could always leave the fronts and pull the backs, which we only added after she was working more and jumping regularly.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Make sure she is overdue before pulling them, and then lightly trim & round the edges. I like to wait until most of the flies are gone, and not during a hard ground/drought period. If you can pull backs first, then fronts a couple of weeks later, that is better.

[Lori B]

FHC, it's really a lot not a drought here in Maryland right now (pause to wring out umbrella)

Well, her next 6 week appt. w/ the farrier is at the end of September, so I could always bump it back a week, and then follow that recipe.

Phasing it (backs, then fronts a bit later) makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

[Fharoah]

When my boy damaged his collateral ligament and deep digital flexor tendon my surgeon had me put wide webbed shoes with rolled toes on for support even while he was on six months total stall rest. I don't that applies to suspensories but I would talk to your surgeon/specialist.

I am truly very sad for you, I hope stem cell can help!

[marathonman]

I pulled front shoes on my retired TB about 4 months ago and it is a process. I am truly amazed at how cavalierly some vets are with the old "pull the shoes and give them 6 months" advice.If they only had to go through it on a daily basis. I had to pull my horse's shoes (he only had fronts) because he could not keep them on due to the amount of rain we had early this summer. I have worked hard to maintain his bare feet and finally feel we are out of the woods. His hoof wall looks good as does his sole but he still takes the occassional bad step.I am still painting his feet alternating between formalin and povidine one day to Ricken's and DMSO on others.I will also put booties on him if the ground has become unusually hard. That being said he fared better that the retiree we tried to take barefoot who was in and out of turnout and the stall. We put shoes back on him 2 weeks after taking them off. He was very lame and was sound immediately after going back in shoes. Horses feet do much better barefoot if they are out all the time. If your horse's feet are in good shape I would not go barefoot for an injury layup.I would not want to create a secondary issue while trying to heal a suspensory.

[paintlady]

My mare was on layup for 9 months with a torn check ligament in her right front when she was 9 y/o. She spent 3 months on stall rest with hand walking and 6 months on pasture board. My vet suggested pulling shoes. She only wore front shoes. I didn't have any problems. I started her back in light work after 9 months - full work at about a year. I wound up keeping her barefoot. She's 12 y/o now, sound and barefoot.

Best of luck... layups are tough expecially if it's your only horse. I know all too well.

[BuddyRoo]

One of my concerns would be with regards to changing multiple variables.

You're trying to rehab an injury. This horse has had shoes on for years. The transition can be hard on some horses. Not many in my experience, but my experience isn't that vast. So in that vein, I'd be slightly concerned about changing multiple things at once...you're going to try pasture petdom....cool. But, I might wait a month before pulling shoes so that you can discern whether or not the horse is improving just with turnout vs improving or going downhill with two variables--pasture petdom AND removing shoes.

It's a possibility that removing the shoes might even HELP. It's a possibility that removing the shoes could make her worse. Same with the turnout/no turnout.

One variable at a time is my policy.

[Lori B]

All good thoughts.

BR, she's not going to be a pasture pet, probably. Since I found out that her insurance probably covers the stem cell and possible surgery that the specialist is likely to recommend, we are going to be stall resting w/ a slow re-introduction of the few hours of small paddock turnout that she has now.

It is possible but not at this point likely that I may turn her out, if the specialist doesn't think she's a candidate for any of the treatments she does for suspensory. Possible but not likely.

So, really, there are 2 things changing: the treatment will take place, and she will be put back in her stall full time for some weeks, w/ limited hand grazing. Not several at once. Her stall has decent mats and dirt floor underneath.

I am (with the understanding that I'll be talking to vet and farrier) leaning toward at least pulling the backs at this point.

[BuddyRoo]

I wouldn't be that hesitant then to just pull them all. Just realize that you may add to your list of issues.

[Lori B]

Update:

Specialist evaluated Katy's suspensory a week ago. Her recommendation wasn't surgery, it was just 2 months of stricter rest, and then we'll see if she's improving or not, and her reply to the question of pulling shoes was this: she says that she doesn't like to change the foot / shoe / hoof care setup for thoroughbreds, since they are hard to get right generally. So, the shoes stay on, end of story. Thanks for all the posts, though, I'm always trying to learn.