I hate this weather! Update: Not Colic? Now what??

[Penthilisea]

Mr. Harvey Horse was very out of spirits this morning according to my BO. Stood in the corner of the field, far away from his beloved girlfriend, wet and shivering. :cry:

Brought him in, brushed him off (which he usually HATES- not a peep) and layered on a few coolers. Dried his legs, and started offering him warm senior feed slurries with some electrolytes. The pasture water trough (even accounting for the rain) looked like he had not drank overnight. He slurped up his slurries and in about an hour and a half the shivering stopped. All in all he drank about 1 bucket or about 20 quarts. Passed one small pile with grunting and hunching. He was unwilling to walk, but not trying to roll, just wanted to stand still. :no:

After 3 hours he had made two more manure piles and pee'd a good amount of reasonably light colored urine. I swapped the coolers to a knit sheet, and the shivering didn't come back (he is in the barn now though). I'll give him an hour and then check him. Also, his temp was 100.4 throughout the whole thing.

Am I missing anything? He hasn't done any rolling or signs of major distress, just a handfull of unhappy faces, bucket biting, and dis inclination to walk around outside in the wet cold rain.

[Lieslot]

Could it just be a chill? I had that once with one of mine in the past.
Jingling it's not a colic, it doesn't read like one to me.

This weather is definitely a sudden change, mine are acting funny too.

[Penthilisea]

I think the lack of drinking + the chill is whats going on. He was definetly uncomfortable in his gut, but the sounds were good and the system seems to be working in so much as liquid goes in and manure and urine come out in a timely fashion.
Are there any common household products I can substitute for electrolytes? I know I bought some apple a day or some such but for the life of me I cannot find them...

[Dramapony_misty]

My girl colics like clockwork when the weather changes (keeping an close eye the next few days). Luckily it's fair mild or caught early enough that I"ve only had to call the vet once and give a round of banamine 2 or 3 times.

We give a bran mash with warm water and about a cup of corn oil. The oil seems to lube up the system so they can pass better. As for subbing electrolytes, I've sent my dad to the grocery store to buy powdered Gatorade. It's usually lemon-lime flavored so your horse may have to get used to it.

[sublimequine]

Poor guy, sounds like getting chilled may have given him the upset stomach. I'd probably put a waterproof turnout sheet on him.

[Penthilisea]

Hour later update: No new manure, but another LARGE urine mark. Didn't touch the handful of wet hay I left for him, but he drank from a regular water bucket and cleaned up his slurry. I gave him a new slurry with gatorade in it (red) and I'll check on him again at 1pm. He was still biting the feed tub (not normal for him), so I think he is still having some discomfort. And his temp is now 100.2.
All in either, nothing says CALL VET ASAP, but he's still NQR.
He lived out all through last winter with nary a worry, but I guess the sudden EARLY drop in temp + rain did him in. I put his new rambo sheet on him, so at least I can prevent this from recurring.

[sublimequine]

Hour later update: No new manure, but another LARGE urine mark. Didn't touch the handful of wet hay I left for him, but he drank from a regular water bucket and cleaned up his slurry. I gave him a new slurry with gatorade in it (red) and I'll check on him again at 1pm. He was still biting the feed tub (not normal for him), so I think he is still having some discomfort. And his temp is now 100.2.
All in either, nothing says CALL VET ASAP, but he's still NQR.
He lived out all through last winter with nary a worry, but I guess the sudden EARLY drop in temp + rain did him in. I put his new rambo sheet on him, so at least I can prevent this from recurring.

I forget, have you given Banamine yet?

Also hand walking may help, if you have an indoor where you can keep him warm while walking.

[aaussie_gal]

Are there any common household products I can substitute for electrolytes? I know I bought some apple a day or some such but for the life of me I cannot find them...

These electrolyte recipes are from another list:



Lew Hollander Recipe: **
l pound table sale (sodium chloride)
22 oz Lite Sale by Morton ( potassium chloride)
l oz. Epsom salts (magnesium)
1 roll Tums (calcium carbonate), ground up (use coffee grinder)
**...one ounce per 5 gallons of water, with fresh water also available.

Other "recipes" Equal parts of table salt and Lite salt give you a mixture that is one-quarter potassium chloride and three-quarters sodium chloride, approximately the ratio present in the horses internal fluids

Dr. Ralston's Electrolyte Recipe
l pound table salt
l2 oz. lite salt
l roll tums

[Penthilisea]

I haven't given him any banamine yet, although I believe the BO has some on hand- I didn't want to mask anything since at first I thought it was just the chill, rather then a mild colic episode.
I don't have an indoor handy, and he was very reluctant to walk outside in the rain, for which I cannot blame him, even in a rain sheet, it's gross out.

I forgot about tums! I 'll add those to his next slurry, along with table salt. Thanks!

[atr]

I had one of these this morning, too. Hope yours is pulling out of it. Mine got banamine, looked much brighter before I left home, passing wind like a french horn, but still had wrinkly eyes.

I'm in the office, worrying. He is being checked on.

[Penthilisea]

1:30 update
Still not interested in hay, but much more alert looking, less worried. Another nice pile of manure, more wet than previous piles. Again, it looks like he pee'd, which makes sense considering how much he's been drinking via his slurries. Made a fresh warm one with tums and corn oil in it, as well as gatorade mix. Temp is at 99.8 which is closer to his normal.

We'll see how he looks at 3pm, and decide if he can go back in his big field with his girlfriend or if he needs a night of rest in the barn. ...my gut says keep him in till the cold rain goes away, but that could mean in the stall till sunday, which is stressful to him as he is used to being out 24/7. And stress is never good post mini colic.

I guess I'm lucky that both of my horses are total chowhounds, and will drink warm water to get to the "treats" (aka senior or bran) below. Actually, they will eat pretty much anything if you act like it's a treat. Easy to give them meds, and now easy to keep them drinking! I might try applesauce later in the day in the slurry to keep it palatable with the electrolytes/gatorade saltiness.

ATR, jingling for your horse too.

[Lieslot]

Glad to hear he's doing better.
I have to say I had to put rainsheets on mine too. This weather is very sudden for them.

It's good you manage to get slurries in him. And considering he's pooping & peeing, fingers crossed he'll be back to eating hay soon too.

[Penthilisea]

Update: 7pm. When the BO got home Mr. HH was shaking again, like a mild shiver. He had pooped again and pee'd like crazy. But he still is NQR so I called the vet. Quick rectal- nada. Temp, resp and pulse normal. Vet gave him banamine and pulled blood.

So... he's not colicing. And it can't be tying up (azoturia I think) because his urine is not dark at all. ANYONE have an ideas as to whats wrong? He kind of grunts when he moves around, and when he stretches to steal a wisp of hay off the floor. I brushed him head to toe, went over his legs carefully, etc- nothing got a pain response; even when I was more brusque then he will normally tolerate.

Grunting- but no temp or increased pulse or respirations
Apathetic- but eats his slurry like it's going out of business!
Shivering- but no temperature or weather related reason (he's in the barn, with a turnout sheet on.)

[HealingHeart]

I wonder if he ran around a bunch, got hot, then got wet which caused the chill when the 2 mixed and just could not balance himself back. It sounds like you are doing all the right things, is it possible to bring in his girlfriend to keep him company and less-stressful.... while he works to heal....

Its almost like he is not "feeliing" in a sense, allowing you to brush. Try to Rub a warm cloths (micro-wave) in circulur motions all over him might help and increase the circulution in the areas

Sending my thoughts your way for a full recovery.

[Laurierace]

I have had dozens of horses tie up over the years and not one single one of them had dark urine. I never had one shake while tying up though. Jingling that you get some good news soon.

[Lieslot]

Hi Penth, I don't mean to worry you even more, but continue to keep an eye on him and keep him in, I did a quick google and it seems shivering/shaking (with cold sweats) can be the first sign of a colic that then progresses to the rolling etc.
I know he's very quiet at present so hopefully that's not the case at all.
It sounds like the vet presently ruled out colic right.
Jingling here!

Also shivering burns a lot of energy in a horse and can easily exhaust them in a short amount of time if they don't get the fiber in their gut to warm them from the inside. So perhaps the fact he doesn't want to move is more from exhaustion.

And I just ran into this :
"A fever usually has three stages: a cold stage or shivering fit, a hot stage, and the decline of the fever. As a rule fever is a protective reaction of the body against invading organisms."
So keep checking his temp, I'm sure you already do however.

[092556]

He might have a virus that just needs to run it's course at least he is drinking.

My warmblood gelding act a little colicy, no rolling, low temp, laid down like he was exhausted, wouldn't eat. Gave him banamine IV but it made no difference. He didn't eat for 3 days then he was fine. I believe he had a virus, the pony he shared the pasture with didn't get sick until about 2 1/2 months later, the exact same symptoms except he didn't eat for 1 1/2 days. I have 22 ponies and no one else has gotten sick, knock on wood.

I hope he snaps out of it soon.

[Penthilisea]

I just keep coming back to the fact that his pulse, temp and resp are all normal. His manure looks normal. He is drinking his slurry when offered, with enthusiasm. But he is still grunting when he moves, and shivering/shaking. :no::no::no:

If his blood tests come back normal then I will assume virus, but until then, I'm so worried! I can't think of any innocuous reasons for him to be so uncomfortable so suddenly.

[Penthilisea]

Just got the call from the vet- all Harvey's bloodwork is normal. So we're going to continue to support him with mashes and keep him in until tomorow when it warms up. He is still passing manure well. I'll recheck his temp at 2 or so, but I don't expect anything to show up.
I'm glad nothing showed up on the blood work, but at the same time I still don't know what it could be!

[Wheel Whip]

There is a tick bourns disease in this area (eastern NY, MA AND CT) that presents like impaction colic with a fever. Quite a few horses have wound up at Cornell and Tufts, If the vet just did a CBC it might not show. Treatment was three days of IV Oxytet, banamine, and observation for founder when the main symptoms subside. Have them check for throat edema.

[Penthilisea]

Wheel Whip, thanks! Do you know if any of the tick borne illness appear with minimal or no fever?

Overall at 3pm today he is MUCH more alert and bright eyed. However, he still groans when he moves to eat anything off the floor, or when he moves. I've palpated till I turned blue but nothing seems to bother him specifically.

We're going to keep him in till sunday when the weather is supposed to be nicer, try him out in a small paddock next to the ponies, so we can watch his water consumption.
I just wish I knew what it was!

[Posting Trot]

When was the last time you de-wormed him, either with a PowerPack or with Quest? Fall is one time of year when encysted strongyles sometimes begin a mass emergence from the cysts in the horse's gut, and that can make the horse look like he's colicking (and sometimes in fact can cause the horse to colic) and uncomfortable, NQR in a big way.

Sometimes de-worming with some other wormer (like ivermectin) can seem to trigger a mass emergence of encysted strongyles.

Anyway, it's something to possibly ask your vet about. Good luck.

[Penthilisea]

He was last wormed on 8/15 with a double dose of Ivermectin, and is on a regular schedule with the rest of the barn.

My BO spoke to a fellow horse person who said there is a epidemic of this odd virus going around NJ into PA, mild to high fever + diarhea. My horse never had diarhea, but the fever and lethargy were there, and he is the only horse on the farm who gets ridden by someone who goes to a different barn for lessons. So his riders may have brought the infection/virus to us...

[Meliora]

I read in your previous posts that you are feeding him Corn oil with his slurries. Corn oil is completly digestable and will not act as lubrication (has a lot of calories and can be upsetting to the tummy sometimes.) Please use Mineral Oil instead as this is not digestable and will create a lubricating situation in the gut. This will also help with any gas that he may have. Good luck and many jingles!!!