Cribbing, Ulcers & maybe Smart Gut?

[tarynls]

Anyone find that Smart Gut (or another product) helps with cribbing with a history of ulcers/stomach scarring?

Horse in question is a 13 y/o OTTB with a miracle collar as tight as I'm comfortable (which is to say it's pretty snug). He mostly cribs on the fence posts (intermittently, it's not constant).

He does have a history of ulcers with leathery-looking scarring in the stomach when scoped.

He also had colic surgery in August 2008, no resection, the small intestine slipped through a hole in the mesentarty (congenital). Everything was put back into place & he's been fine since.

His diet consists of free choice hay when stalled at night and 1lb. Triple Crown 12% ration balancer daily. He's out in a wonderful grass paddock for at least 8 hrs/day.

Thanks!

[missamandarose]

I'm thinking of making the leap to SmartGut for my cribber, too. I'm interested in what others might have to say. He was treated for ulcers when we got him off the track 2 yrs ago, and he did improve a lot after that, but still a heavy cribber.

We've started him on a higher portion of rice bran and less grain (he's also eats TC). That has seemed to help reduce his cribbing. He has broken 3 miracle collars (!) and I'm just not comfortable putting one on him anymore; thank god they break, but I can't imagine what he has done to get caught on something and snapped 3 collars. Too scary.

Lots of research out there now in regards to the cribbing/ulcers/diet relationships; one idea is that they crib b/c it increases saliva production, which in turn buffers the stomach. I have pretty bad heartburn/reflux (though I wouldnt consider it chronic) myself... so I can only imagine how a crummy my horse feels. I know to stay away from foods that trigger my HB... horses can't tell us when it happens to them :(

Check out the blog "Behind the Bit"... the lady who writes it has a cribber and she has links to a lot of good articles (look for the "cribbing" tag on the right of her page).

[tarynls]

Shameless bump for both of us....

[equinelaw]

Lots of research out there now in regards to the cribbing/ulcers/diet relationships; one idea is that they crib b/c it increases saliva production, which in turn buffers the stomach. I have pretty bad heartburn/reflux (though I wouldnt consider it chronic) myself... so I can only imagine how a crummy my horse feels. I know to stay away from foods that trigger my HB... horses can't tell us when it happens to them :(

NO THERE ARE NOT! There are lots of articles that mention research but FAIL to mention that is was shown to be WRONG. I did the research. I was WRONG. It did experiments to prove just how damn wrong I was. Obviously I thought it was right until I was proven wrong, but how do I turn this damn thing off? The 1 other research team that proposed the same thing at the same time did NOT ever say there were wrong, but they are still equine researchers, so that is expected. They did move on from that line of study though since it was WRONG.

Cribbing causes a REDUCTION in gastric ph. There is no significant correlation between cribbing and ulcers.

Its genetic. You can reduce it or stop it with mechanical means. You can ignore it. But you cannot sure it with things that cure ulcers.

[mypaintwattie]

Within a week of treating my horse for ulcers with ranitidine her cribbing has dramatically slowed down. I have also added alfalfa and put her on smartgut to see if it helps too, with the hope of continuing on the smartgut when the course of ranitidine treatment was over. I contacted USEF, and smartgut is not legal to show on because it contains licorice, so it must be withdrawn 7 days prior to a competition. I will give u-gard a try, but all I can say is that when she is on an 'antacid' my horse is a different horse and her cribbing, which was constant, is now occasional, which leads me to believe that something was amiss in her stomach.

[tarynls]

Its genetic. You can reduce it or stop it with mechanical means. You can ignore it. But you cannot sure it with things that cure ulcers.

Interesting. While my gelding was on GastroGard for a month following colic surgery, his cribbing diminished significantly. To the point I could leave the Miracle Collar off. This is a horse that will crib on the first available surface if the collar is off - and is even attempting to crib with it on at this point.

I have no doubt cribbing is genetic. But I wouldn't discount the idea that ulcer preperations reduce the cribbing.

[equinelaw]

They may or may reduce cribbing bouts, but its not because the horse has ulcers or the ulcers are being cured.

When my horses colicked they also stopped cribbing. My horse also stopped cribbing as much on GG+Alflafa. Because he felt bad and then colicked. He had reduced his cribbing because he felt worse. No grain was the best option, but he could not live on no grain at his age. Not enough calories in the beet pulp, alfalfa and oils.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of horses who have ulcers do not crib and lots and lots and lots of cribbers do not have ulcers. Perhaps there is something in GG that stops them from cribbing as much, but its not because they have ulcers. The 2 things have to go together in most cases to have any relationship, much less a causal one.

Lets back up the the start. I gave my horse a tryptophan supplement to see if he would reduce cribbing. It did. But the stuff was 99.9% calcium carbonate, so I then gave him pure trytophan and it did not reduce his cribbing. Maybe he just did not feel well the first time or maybe he did not feel like cribbing during that 48 hour period, but I then proposed that maybe cribbing, like Calcium, was a stomach buffer. I did studies. They showed that cribbing did not reduce gastric ph and that buffers did not reduce cribbing. Not ulcers, not acid, no buffering going on. Horses scoped clean, some control horses scoped with ulcers.

I "cured" my horse of cribbing about as many times as I have "quit smoking". For everyone who thinks they have found a cure, wait 3 -5 years and see if its still cured.:)

Every time something WRONG is repeated and spread around its taking away from something right being discovered. Perhaps I am the only person who does research and is willing to keep saying I am wrong, but I think its my right to "own" my own research.

GG is a hell of an expensive thing to keep horses on if its not going to cure the problem.