food sensitivities and laminitis - UPDATE it's an allergy

[Stacie]

How many of you have had horses with food sensitivities that made the horse prone to laminitis?
What food(s) were the culprit?

According to what I've been reading some horses appear to have extreme inflammatory reactions and this make those horses more likely to get laminitis when stressed with high sugar grasses. In some cases, it appears that food sensitivity may cause or exacerbate the hyperinflammatory response.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone out there has personal experience with this.

Edited to Add:
Note that I used the word "sensitivity", not allergy. My daughter and I do not test as allergic to gluten but if either of us eats it, our joints swell up and the pain is incredible. We aren't allergic, but we sure are sensitive :-)

UPDATE: she has tested ALLERGIC to soy, carrots and wheat

[Daydream Believer]

I had a mare get laminitis and founder mildly last year about this time. We never found an obvious cause like IR (neg test) nor sickness but I do believe she was sensitive to the soy in her ration balancer. We pulled her off the feed and she was much better quite fast. Now a year later on a non soy diet, she's absolutely fine out in the same paddock on what is a much lusher grass than this time last year. Her weight is excellent compared to being too thin last year also. I really don't think her laminitis was due to anything in her paddock...same paddock..same weeds, etc...

I had other horses show some issues with that feed also...mainly extreme obesity/IR type issues and one filly who had behavior problems... so now they are all soy free. Much easier to just do one thing that works for everyone so I do a custom feed program now with whole ingredients.

I am gluten intolerant also...actually have Celiac's Disease...so I do understand how much an intolerance or sensitivity can cause other problems. Celiac's is essentially an autoimmune problem and, if untreated, can lead to many other autoimmune issues. In many respects IR in horses is very similar to diabetes in people (also autoimmune) so I can see where a food sensitivity or intolerance could easily lead to such issues in horses also.

[Stacie]

I saw an old thread where you were discussing your soy free program. Are you still using the same diet? I've been looking at soy free vitamins and protein supplements. Hard to find. Most have some kind of corn in them which is part of the reason why I started the thread. I was wondering if anyone had corn be a problem as well.

Whey protein isolate looks interesting for the limiting amino acids. I'm also considering alfalfa pellets for extra protein and calories.

[Daydream Believer]

I saw an old thread where you were discussing your soy free program. Are you still using the same diet?

Yes I am. Alfalfa pellets are my "base" and I add oats, beet pulp, flax and rice bran as needed. Most of my easy keepers only get alf. pellets and flax. The harder keepers are on the beet pulp, oats and rice bran. It's working really well for a wide range of horses from WB's to TB's to my little Col. Spanish horses.

I don't actually supplement vitamins...only minerals. I feed enough good quality hay/forage that I'm not worried about basic vitamin deficiencies. I think most people don't need to supplement vitamins at all. Minerals are another matter though.

[Stacie]

Have you found much difference in the quality of alfalfa pellets? I think I can pretty much get any brand here.

[Daydream Believer]

Yes, I have found differences in the ingredients. I am using the Grainland Select brand and recently they switched to a larger pellet that seems very dusty in my bins. The horses don't seem to mind but it bothers/chokes me as I'm mixing their feed! I like that brand as there are no added binders, fats or preservatives.

[FatPalomino]

According to what I've been reading some horses appear to have extreme inflammatory reactions and this make those horses more likely to get laminitis when stressed with high sugar grasses. In some cases, it appears that food sensitivity may cause or exacerbate the hyperinflammatory response.



It's my understanding that it's more due to the effects of Insulin than a food sensitivity.

[Stacie]

It's my understanding that it's more due to the effects of Insulin than a food sensitivity.

Not all lamintis is related to IR. In our case it's due to high fructans in grass causing a change in gut flora which causes endotoxins to be released in the gut which causes the lamintis.

[Katy Watts]

Not all lamintis is related to IR. In our case it's due to high fructans in grass causing a change in gut flora which causes endotoxins to be released in the gut which causes the lamintis.

How did you determine fructan levels? What kind of grass caused the laminitis? What were environmental conditions at the time? The reason I ask is because I have inspected pastures where laminitis has been blamed on fructan, and none of the species present make any fructan at all.
Katy

[Stacie]

How did you determine fructan levels? What kind of grass caused the laminitis? What were environmental conditions at the time? The reason I ask is because I have inspected pastures where laminitis has been blamed on fructan, and none of the species present make any fructan at all.
Katy
C3 grasses. Mid-atlantic, lush, dairy and beef farm quality pastures.
I'm working with a vet who is older, up to date on all the research and has a specialized interest in laminitis and nutrition. The workup we did to determine what is going on with this filly was extensive.

[EqTrainer]

Stacie, I hope you will keep us updated on this.

I have a horse who is sensitive to most common feedstuffs and becomes subclinically laminitic if exposed to them PLUS grass. It's an either/or situation. Took a long time to figure that out and it's still very crudely managed IMO.

That's great that your vet is so interested in working on this. These are the kinds of things that make you feel craaaaaaazzy.......

[rcloisonne]

I don't actually supplement vitamins...only minerals. I feed enough good quality hay/forage that I'm not worried about basic vitamin deficiencies. I think most people don't need to supplement vitamins at all. Minerals are another matter though.
As long as the horse is getting fresh forage, I agree. However, the drying process that creates hay degrades many vitamins found in fresh grass/plants. A horse on a hay and pellets only diet does need vitamin supplementation, IMO.

Vita-Key Antioxidant Concentrate is a very good general vit/min supplement and contains no soy.

[Daydream Believer]

Note that I used the word "sensitivity", not allergy. My daughter and I do not test as allergic to gluten but if either of us eats it, our joints swell up and the pain is incredible. We aren't allergic, but we sure are sensitive :-)

UPDATE: she has tested ALLERGIC to soy, carrots and wheat

Gluten intolerance is not the same as a wheat allergy. In a human, gluten intolerance is genetic...we lack the gene to digest gluten. An allergy is different. You and your daughter may well be gluten intolerant. PM me and I can give you information to get yourselves tested for it.

It is interesting that your horse shows a true allergy to soy. Wheat is also used in a lot of horse fees. Your poor pony could be getting a double or tripple whammy if you are feeding carrots also! Good for you to know now what you are dealing with.

[Stacie]

Stacie, I hope you will keep us updated on this.

I have a horse who is sensitive to most common feedstuffs and becomes subclinically laminitic if exposed to them PLUS grass. It's an either/or situation. Took a long time to figure that out and it's still very crudely managed IMO.


I am wishing very hard that the soy allergy was the problem and she can out and eat grass without becoming laminitic.

She has just started to go back out and she is in a small paddock with some limited grass and no fescue (it's a broodmare paddock) and she looks fantastic. I noticed that she doesn't seem to graze a lot and is very excited to go back to her stall to her pile of alfalfa :lol:
She is going to stay in a dry paddock until the grass dies off and then she'll go back out with her friends.
I'm not sure what I'll do when the grass starts up again in March :no: I'll probably chicken out and out her back in the dry paddock