Willie (penile amputation/laminitis) good report from vet/farrier # 607

[eventgroupie2]

We just brought my 19 year old Arabian home after a partial penile amputation made necessary because of SCC. We feel that he received excellent treatment, but I am just wondering if anyone has been through this before and has any words of wisdom for us. He has swelling about the size of a good-sized grapefruit. The problem seems to be that the liquids, etc want to get to the lowest place, and if he is "out" then the liquids gather there and make the swelling worse. The trailer ride of about an hour and a half did not seem to bother him. We immmediately hosed him, and I was able to get him to withdraw as much as he can. He has no fever and is not on antibiotics. We are to give him bute and a steroid to reduce the swelling, and hose him a couple times a day. The vet also thought that home surroundings and a bit of turnout will be beneficial, so we are following that. My thoughts are to hose him every couple hours, and to get him to retract as much as he can. God bless him, he is still the sweet, sane, lovable little guy that he was before enduring this ordeal. So if anyone has anything to share, jingles would also be appreciated!!, please do.

[Laurierace]

Thankfully I have never had to deal with this but anytime I have swelling pretty much anywhere I resort to cold hosing as much as possible. Jingling for a quick recovery.

[Zu Zu]

Jingles Jingles Jingles - Never have dealt with this - but as with any swelling - gravity pulls it down - cold hosing and time ---good news that there is no fever. Exercise & turn-out and time should help heal him up. Good Luck !

[GoshenNY]

Years ago I had a young gelding that tried to breed the wrong mare and she let him have it. His penis ended up swelling to the size of a loaf of bread. I ended up putting his private in a plastic bag and then another bag of ice over that and took some baling twine and tied it up around his waist. When the vet came he approved of my treatment and had me lube it, so the gelding could draw it back up, he was also put on bute,,his hematoma did burst, but I kept putting bag balm on it, He healed up just fine.

[Bluey]

Sorry, can't help any with your question, other than standard hosing as much as possible and movement.

We have our 29 year old right now with SCC also and would like to know how your horse does, if the amputation impacts his quality of life.
If it doesn't, we may have to go there eventually with our old horse, but won't do it if he is not going to be happy afterwards, but in pain or impaired seriously.
May be moot question, because at his advanced age, he may have other tumors somewhere else that makes fighting this one useless eventually.

Good luck with your boy.:yes:

[jaimebaker]

I would say cold hosing and movement as well. Sending jingles your way for a speedy recovery. Poor fella:(

[twofatponies]

poor thing! jingles!

[RioTex]

We have our 29 year old right now with SCC also and would like to know how your horse does, if the amputation impacts his quality of life.
Not from SCC, but have one with an amputation and after the recovery, his quality of life is not at all in question. In regard to the swelling issues, just give it time. Turnout is your friend.

[Pancakes]

Making a sling of sorts (if your horse will tolerate it) may help reduce the swelling, and cold hosing is a good idea too. If you can get a sling outfitted, you can also put bags of ice in it -- that may help as well. Otherwise, time.

[eventgroupie2]

Thanks for all the good wishes and suggestions. Willie's appetite seems ok, although he is not cleaning up his hay like he usually does. I have cold hosed him three times so far today, and turned him out early this morning for a couple hours. The only small pasture we have does not get any shade during the day, so I will put him out again tonight after the sun goes down, after another hosing and his meds. The swelling does not look any better, but at least it doesn't appear to be worse than it was!! He did lie down in his stall overnight. I tried hand walking him just a few minutes ago, but the flies are awful, and I certainly don't want to use fly spray on him! So I just put him back into his stall and he is dozing in front of the fans.

[cloudyandcallie]

Altituderider's Cody has penile cancer but has not had to have the amputation. You might PM her for some advice as she has to apply the topical cancer treatment/salve.

Call you vet! You paid good $$$ for the operation and treatment and should get advice over the phone without charge. I'd think that Banamine might help, but I'd call my vet first to make sure that would be the drug to use. Did your horse come home with instructions for cold hosing and drug use? If not, call the vet. I call whenever I need help and do not get charged for phone calls. We pay a lot of $ to get treatments, the follow up proticol should be included in the charge.

[eventgroupie2]

Willie just came from from the hospital yesterday. We have meds from the vet, and instructions for turn-out and cold hosing. I have been told to call my vet if anything gets worse, and it hasn't. (I just don't see much improvement yet.) The surgeon is scheduled to call us Monday morning if we haven't had to call him. He is very supportive and "there for us". I hope I didn't give the impression that we were not satisfied with the surgeon - nothing could be farther from the truth. I was just wanting to "talk" with horse friends who have gone through something similar and get their take on what they did, and what I can expect.

[Zu Zu]

Jingles continue for Willie's recovery - sounds like you are doing great !!! Keep us updated.

[eventgroupie2]

Not really much to report. The penis swelling may be down a little, but now he has two new swollen areas on his belly in front of his sheath. The surgeon had told us that probably would occur, so we are not overly concerned. We have a scheduled phone conference with him in the morning, so will be sure to mention it then, just to make sure this is normal and what he expected. His temperature was normal again this morning, and he continues to eat his grain and grass with great gusto. The hay, not so much- just picks at it. He had his meds this morning, and we cold hosed him four times today so far. He had turnout for about 3 hours this morning, and we will put him back out after evening meds and another hosing when it cools down a bit and the sun goes down, so fewer bugs.
Thanks to all who are following his progress. Hope I have some improvement to report tomorrow! :yes:

[Zu Zu]

Any update on Willie? Sounds like the swelling is just being re-located by "Mr. Gravity". Also sounds like you have him on a great turn-out / hosing schedule for recovery. Jingles Jingles Jingles!!!

[eventgroupie2]

We had to rush Willie back to the clinic last night. His temp went up to 101 and he was having trouble urinating. I called my local vet (also a member of the surgical practice) and she got here about 9:00- recommended taking him back to the clinic as she could not pass a catheter to revieve pressure on his extended bladder. We were afraid the bladder would rupture on the hour and a half trip, but it didn't. Evidently, all the swelling was caused by enormous blood seepage that formed clots and cut off his uretha, evidently some of the sutures had pulled through. Once the bleeding stopped, and he was stable, we came home about 3am. The vet just called and they operated on hiim again this morning for four hours, but we are far from out of the woods. The skin just doesn''t seem to be able to hold the sutures, and he can't stand another round of blood loss. He is back in his stall, but the prognosis is very guarded at best. So if ever there was a time for COTH jingles, this is it for us. We will appreciate each and every one of them in hopes of getting my beloved Willie back home with me.

[li'l bit]

MEGA JINGLES for Willie. Praying for his safe recovery.

[Altitude Rider]

oh CRAP, I am sooo sorry! Please keep us updated.

My boy has SCC in the penis as well, luckily it wasn't bad enough to do the surgery and we treat it with chemo cream. However, I did get a fair amount of positive feedback when I was researching this so I hope things turn around quickly.

That all sounds very scary...jingling and sending ((hugs))!

[twofatponies]

Poor guy! Big jingles!

[EqTrainer]

Oh dear... we are jingling like mad for him.

[JSwan]

I will be thinking of you and your horse and hoping for his recovery.

Hang in there.

[amdfarm]

Oh no, poor Willie and you!!! (((HUGS)))

Jingling like mad.

[Bluey]

Very scary situation.:eek:

Best wishes for a good outcome.

[grayarabpony]

Oh no, I'm sorry to hear about that. Poor Willie! :(

Getting out my curb chain...

[Zu Zu]

So Sorry to hear this about Willie. Jingles ~ Jingles ~ Jingles and MORE Jingles for Willie and you and your family!!! Thoughts and prayers for Willie's recovery.

[HorsesinHaiti]

Ouch! Praying for him and you.

[Percheron X]

Jingles for Willie to get well!

[cloudyandcallie]

We had to rush Willie back to the clinic last night. His temp went up to 101 and he was having trouble urinating. I called my local vet (also a member of the surgical practice) and she got here about 9:00- recommended taking him back to the clinic as she could not pass a catheter to revieve pressure on his extended bladder. We were afraid the bladder would rupture on the hour and a half trip, but it didn't. Evidently, all the swelling was caused by enormous blood seepage that formed clots and cut off his uretha, evidently some of the sutures had pulled through. Once the bleeding stopped, and he was stable, we came home about 3am. The vet just called and they operated on hiim again this morning for four hours, but we are far from out of the woods. The skin just doesn''t seem to be able to hold the sutures, and he can't stand another round of blood loss. He is back in his stall, but the prognosis is very guarded at best. So if ever there was a time for COTH jingles, this is it for us. We will appreciate each and every one of them in hopes of getting my beloved Willie back home with me.

Oh no! I hope they are cutting off the rest of the penis and pulling down his urethra to make sure he is able to urinate? And giving him aspirin or aspirese to stop the clotting? I sure hope he is doing better. Best wishes for his recovery.

[citydog]

All good thoughts your way!

[jen-s]

Jingles from NC!!!

And [[[(((((hugs))))]]] for you too.

[Gayla]

Jingles...:(

[Laurierace]

Jingling for a great update.

[asb_own_me]

COTH jingles helped my guy over the winer, and I hope they help your guy now. Big jangly jingles from Puppy's full bridle for Willie!!!!

[LLDM]

Man HUGE, HUGE jingles for Willie!!!!


Making a sling of sorts (if your horse will tolerate it) may help reduce the swelling, and cold hosing is a good idea too. If you can get a sling outfitted, you can also put bags of ice in it -- that may help as well. Otherwise, time.

I second the sling, as we had a very similar situation to Pancakes' many years ago. We used a quilted leg wrap, cut slits in all 4 corners and tied knitted track bandages to each corner. Then it could easily be tied over his back. It could hold an ice pack and we could cold hose through it too. We kept his penis slathered in nitrofurazone ointment to keep the skin from cracking. He could travel home in it too, as it would make the trailer ride more comfortable.

Hang in there Willie! Poor dude.

SCFarm

[Buffyblue]

Some NY jingles for Willie!

[sublimequine]

Jingles from IL!

[Guin]

More jingles from Massachusetts for Willie.

[Zu Zu]

More Jingles for Willie !!! COME ON WILLIE !!!! We are all jingling for Willie !!!!!!!!!

[lovemyoldguy]

Huge jingles for Willie from VA!

[Chief2]

Jingles from CT!

[Daydream Believer]

Sending jingles from Virginia. Poor fellow sounds like he's had a rough time.

[buck22]

jingles from nj so so so very sorry you're going through this

[monstrpony]

Jingles--hope this resolves favorably, and soon!

[fivehorses]

Jingles from NH.
I hope your beloved Willie comes home very soon so you can stop worrying.

[eventgroupie2]

Willie is holding his own. They are still very concerned that there is some swelling and bleeding. Said he is not out of the woods yet. He just can't afford to lose much more blood, and there is nothing else left to do for him. They have him in a figure-eight sling to hold his "parts" together (what parts are left) to help minimize the swelling and bleeding. On a good note, he is comfortable and eating well. They left the catheter in, and he is urinating fine with that. They will call sometime in the morning with another update.
With this report, we are just "waiting and seeing". Had the report been that he was agitated, in pain, not eating, etc. we would have had little choice but to end his pain. But it seems to us that he is fighting, and we will give him the chance he deserves. As long as he is comfortable and eating, I am ok with that, although I still realize all too well what the outcome may be and am trying hard to come to terms with it.
Thank you all so much for your kind words, care, and support We appreciate each and every one. I will update you all tomorrow when I hear anything.

[Bluey]

How scary.:eek:
I don't think we will go there with our 29 year old.:no:
If it comes to that, we may just not take those kinds of chances, at his age and just let him go.:(

Let us know how he is and hopefully it will be very good news.:)
He seems to be a good trooper right now.:yes:

[horse-loverz]

Jingles from Kentucky for your boy.

[Mara]

Major jingles for your guy! Sounds as if he's a fighter. . .

[Zu Zu]

More Jingles for Willie ! AO~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic !!! Jingles for a restful night and a GOOD MORNING update. Thoughts and prayers for Willie and his family during this most difficult and stressful time.

[cloudyandcallie]

I'm so glad he came thru the surgery. Now to watch out for colic issues with all the stress to his system. I'm sure the vets will be addressing that issue and trying to prevent it.
I hope they can keep him from bleeding too much but also prevent the clotting that contributed to the problems.
Hope he has a good recovery after all this.

This is not a normal occurrence after this type of surgery as the surgery is not as invasive and is not usually as dangerous as colic surgery, according to what my vet told another cother when she consulted him about the same surgery (she opted instead for treatment not involving surgery).

[monstrpony]

Continued jingles for a good morning report.

[Zu Zu]

Morning Jingles for Willie - Jingles Jingles Jingles !!! And of course big Jingles for his family! Come on Willie !!!!

[Nlevie]

Big JINGLES for Willie ! Sounds awful. Thanks for keeping us updated and we look forward to hearing he is doing better. . .

[eventgroupie2]

Hi all!
I just got the morning update, and it was a bit more positive!!!!! Not out of the woods yet, but more positive. Vet thinks that the sutures may be holding, as the bleeding seems to have stopped. (They don't pull out because of movement, his skin just doesn't support them!!!)They did a blood count this morning, and the vet said it actually looked pretty good. (That gives him the basis for thinking that the bleeding has stopped, I guess. ) Bad news, still a lot of swelling and he is mildly uncomfortable. They still have the figure-8 sling bandage supporting the surgery area, and he is on pain meds. Eating well, peeing through the catheter well. Vet actually said that he thinks with "conservative treatment" he may just pull through. Has to stay there for "awhile" - I told him that we are committed to having him stay there as long as needed to get him better. So I am afraid to be joyful - it could take a turn for the worse any moment if he starts bleeding again because the sutures don't hold, but I sure do feel like there might be a light at the end of this long, dark tunnel.
Thanks for being there and caring.

[Zu Zu]

GREAT!!! Thank you for the update - have been worrying about your boy, rather Gentleman Willie!!!~ AO ~ AO ~ AO ~~ Always Optimistic !!! Will you visit him today? If so ~ please tell him he has all the cothers JINGLING for his recovery !! Best wishes for a quiet recovery ~ healing day. Thoughts and prayers for Willie andd his wonderful family!! COME ON WILLIE !!!!!!

[grayarabpony]

Yay, good news!

[Bluey]

Thanks for the update.:cool:
You got many here pulling for your horse, surely that ough be of some help...:yes:

[cloudyandcallie]

Keep that catheter in. While it is unconfortable, it will prevent uremic poisoning.
I guess they couldn't use stables there. When my "nephew" horse Reasy had colic surgery, he got staples in his abdomen and they held great.
Make sure he's getting the "gruel" of alfalfa tea and/or bran mash to keep that gut working with all this stress.
If he can hang on thru 2 surgeries, he's tough enough to make it. Brave horse. (And a valuable one too, as you have spent a lot of money to save him.)

[amdfarm]

Thanks for the update. Continued Jingles headed his way!! Do you happen to have a pic of Willie so we can see who we're rooting for?

[sublimequine]

Yay! Continuous jingles of hope and rejoice! :)

[eventgroupie2]

I don't have the ability to post pictures here, but I'd be glad to send a picture to someone who could post one, if that is allowed?
I am expecting another vet update early this evening, and am hoping for continued improvement. Will let everyone know how he is doing.
I am sure that all the positivie energy flowing around the country for Willie has got to help, and I appreciate it more than words can express. Thank you all so much.

[Bluey]

You could open a free account on photobucket.com, upload pictures there, is very simple and then post the link here.
That is what most of us do.:)

[eventgroupie2]

hopefully here is a link to a few pictures of Willie!
http://s849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/equiglas/

[Bluey]

Worked just fine, thanks!

He is a very cute fellow.
Somehow, I thought he would be gray, but I guess that those tumors are not really color driven, although or vet thought that our horse being pink/white under there, being a tobiano paint, may have had something to do with his scc tumor.

Sure hope he pulls thru, he looks in great shape and maybe that will help him.:)

[Zu Zu]

What a HANDSOME GENTLEMAN WILLIE IS !!!!!!!!! You two look great together! Willie has such a beautiful eye! Continuing to Jingles for your gentleman !!!! and his lady!!!!!!!!!!!! Jingles ~ Jingles ~ Jingles ~ AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guin]

Lots more jingles for Willie! Hang in there.

[eventgroupie2]

HAPPY! HAPPY HAPPY! Art (hubby) just got off the phone with the surgeon - the swelling is down, less than it was; Willie is alert, eating, animated, all bodily functions seem to be doing fine- urinating fine with the catheter, no additional bleeding, "things seem to be looking good"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are planning to go see him on Saturday. Tabby (our local vet for years who is working at this practice and was the one who sent us back Monday night) called today and I mentioned my fear of founder and she said that she is sure that they will be on the look out for it, but said I should also mention it to them, and to not be afraid of communicating anything to them - she said that is how Willie is going to get better, with us all working together. So I will mention it when when they call tomorrow morning, for sure. But, just in case, keep the prayers and jingles coming........ I will feel totally optimistic once we pass Friday, and there is no additional bleeding. Three days is when it seems to me the swelling increased after the first surgery, and I assume that was when the internal bleeding started because of the sutures just puilling through. So three days from this surgery will be Friday. If we can get past that, I will feel more secure in thinking that this nightmare is really almost over.
Bluey - from the research I have done on this now, it does seem like it is a photosensitive skin reaction, and that greys are much more likely to contract it. Willie may be a chestnut, but his skin is super sensitive. I treat him constantly for scratches on his hind white socks - any bit of mud in his pasture, and he gets irritated. I have to put #50 sunblock on his nose daily (where it shows out under his super long nose fly mask) to keep him from getting blistered. So with this skin sensitivity, it probably isn't too weird that he develped this SCC which is basically a skin cancer.
Sorry this got long, and again, we thank you all for all your good wishes and concern for Willie. :yes:

[MunchkinsMom]

That is great news. More jingles for a full recovery.

[Zu Zu]

GREAT UPDATE ~ Jingles continue from KC -- Wishing Willie and you and your family a restful evening. Again - loved the photos !! JINGLE ~ JINGLE ~ JINGLE AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic !!!! Thoughts and prayers for Willie and his family !!!!!!!!

[Altitude Rider]

So glad to hear things are getting better for him!

I also pictured a gray (as mine is the one with SCC in his penis also). I was surprised by the pic.

I know it's a type of skin cancer and grays are more likely to have it but sometimes I wonder if it was (for my horse, not to hijack) anything to do with high altitude living for so many years, i.e. much closer to the sun in an area with many sunny days.

Can you tell me how you first discovered it, how bad it looked, specific area, etc so I have something to compare Cody's situation with?? Cody has some new growths and I can only hope it's not spreading into the urethra. I found it b/c he would drop his penis, kick at it & look grumpy...so I thought maybe he had a bean but found the odd growths instead. He was also urinating more frequently and making a big deal of it, as in stretching for a long time as well as making sure I saw him doing all of this.

I am REALLY glad things seem to be improving. Please keep the updates coming....jingles!

[LLDM]

Cool beans! And he is a very handsome dude. Jingles for fast healing and a happy Willie homecoming... soon.

SCFarm

[eventgroupie2]

We first noticed what I can only call a "turkey gobbler" growth hanging off of Willie's penis by accident. He is a very "private guy" (unlike my two adopted TB's who seem to like nothing better than winging them around for fun LOL!!) He had just finished urinating and was walking over to get his breakfast. I couldn't help but notice it - bright pink, fleshy - looked something like proud flesh - about an inch to an inch and a half above the tip of his penis, about an inch and a half long and a half inch wide. When I tried to examine it that night at dinner, it bled a tiny bit when I touched it. As he was making his penis more available than normal, probably because of the irritation the growth caused when withdrawing into the sheath, I noticed other places surrounding the growth that didn't look too healthy to me. Mind you, I am not the world's greatest sheath cleaner by any means, but I do keep an eye on all four of my boys in case something is amiss. The last time I really gave him a good going over was mid June, when we returned from a two week trip to Utah. (Boy, after this, won't be many trips for many a year!!! But I'd rather have Willie. Simple as that!) He seemed fine them, but I do remember thinking that it was a bit pinker than usual. But nothing to send up the red flag, for sure. When the vet came the next day to check him out, part of the growth just fell off when she touched it. This makes me wonder if he has been having these growths without me seeing them, and then they just fell off. Very little bleeding- a couple drops at best that could easily be missed in the stall, and never noticed if the horses are on full turn-out as ours are in the summer. So that is about it, as far as how we found it.
I do think that Willie was a terrible poster boy for this -- it is supposed to be a fairly simple surgery, with not much recovery time. Ours has been so hampered by Willie's weird skin that just won't hold sutures. Doubt if we ever know why.
Sorry this got so long, but hope it helps to answer your question.

[ptownevt]

I'm so glad he's doing better. We'll keep jingling for your cute, cute, cute guy.

[fivehorses]

I am so happy Willie is doing better.
I hope Cody is doing ok to Altituderider. I know how much you love and take care of your horses.

[grayarabpony]

That's great news! What a handsome boy.

[Bluey]

Looks like your horse may be over the hump now.:cool:

For those that question how such SCC progresses, our then 27 year old horse two years ago had two little quarter sized scuffed spots low on the end of his penis on one side.
The vet told us to keep our eye on those, but that now it was not the time to do anything about them.

Last late winter, now a 29 year old, the lower one started growing, we took him to the vet asap and in three weeks, by the time we took him to be operated on, it looked like this.
We were waiting for the horseshoer and then were hauling him right in for his operation:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a298/Robintoo/Horses2-20-07947.jpg?t=1250129827

That is all growth at the end of his penis, about the size of a misshapen tennis ball.
The vet cut it out with him standing, said that he got 95%, but had to leave a little, as it would have meant some amputation and "we didn't want to go there now".
He kept him two days in his clinic and sent him home already feeling great, eating and has never had an off day.
Every two weeks since we have run him by the vet, that at first injected him locally with a chemo preparation, Cisplatin, but it didn't quite help arrest it, as it is now starting to, much slower, growing again.

Our vet said we will keep cutting it when it gets very big, if it doesn't reduce on itself, which some do and go with whatever presents itself.

So, for your horse, as we can see with those two different cases, the OP and ours and one more that is being treated with a local cream, each horse is different.

I am so glad that Willie is coming along well, that is such a sad situation all around, when such a little thing can mean life or death so easily.:(

[amdfarm]

Thanks for posting his pics. He is lovely!! What a sweet face he has. I, too, was expecting him to be grey.

Super update!! Continued jingles for suture holding, etc...

(((HUGS))) for hangin in there.

[Nlevie]

I'm so glad to hear your cute boy is doing better ! Don't feel bad about not noticing right away, some of our geldings are also shy about hanging it out in public, so i can understand not seeing it regularly ? I have a chestnut TB who is marked very much like Willie - high white socks & a big blaze that covers half his nose. He also has sensitive skin, including getting a sunburned nose unless he wears a full mask. . .

Still jingling for Willie's full recovery !

[Zu Zu]

Morning Jingles for Willie !!

[li'l bit]

Thank you for the updates and information. Wishing continued improvement for Willie. He is a very lovely fellow. Jingles for Willie.

[eventgroupie2]

The surgeon called this morning and left the message that Willie continues to improve, the swelling continues to lessen, there is no sign of active bleeding, and that he is optimistic about a good outcome but still being cautious in leaving the catheter in place. Direct quote "I think we're doing good!!". I can't tell you how relieved we are to get these good reports. Can't wait to see Willie on Saturday, and hoping that maybe he will be able to come home next week. We definitely are not going to do that until everyone is sure that it is the best thing for him and that he is ready for the trailer trip. Thanks again to all who are following his progress with jingles - I'm sure you are part of why he is doing so much better than first expected! :yes:

[cloudyandcallie]

Great news! Yes, keep that catheter in place till everything is back to "normal" size. He's a courageous horse and deserves the best.

[cloudyandcallie]

Worked just fine, thanks!

He is a very cute fellow.
Somehow, I thought he would be gray, but I guess that those tumors are not really color driven, although or vet thought that our horse being pink/white under there, being a tobiano paint, may have had something to do with his scc tumor.

Sure hope he pulls thru, he looks in great shape and maybe that will help him.:)

I don't think it is related to the color of the penis, as I've had 3 geldings in my lifetime, all with pink penises and no problems. All 3 were tobianos, altho the first 2 were bay&white and Cloudy is grey and white, but the genetic experts on other threads have said that melanomas are mostly on the homozygotes (for the grey gene), which have the dark skin and aren't pintos.
I think atlituderider's Cody is an appy, if I remember correctly, she has several horses and Cody has penile cancer but she is using the chemo creme as opposed to the surgery.

ETA: oops just read about Cody being grey. And my horse, due to sunburn issues, stays inside in the day in the summers. Even people who dispute global warming need to understand that with the ozone layer now so thin, the harmful rays are affecting not only humans in the sun, but animals too. If you do turn out during the day, slather them with zinc oxide in the tubes from the drug store.

[grayarabpony]

That is great. Continued jingles for Willie!

[Zu Zu]

GREAT!!!! Have come back in from the barn several times this am to check for an update -- and here it is HOORAY !! for Willie and his family !!! JINGLES JINGLES JINGLES & AO ~ AO ~ AO~ Always Optimistic! Keep up the good work WILLIE !!!! This has made my day!!!!!!Thoughts and prayers continue for your Willie's recovery !

[Mara]

Willie's such a cute guy. Glad to hear he's improving!

[Starsnstripes]

I can tell by reading your posts how much you love Willie. I'm sure he reciprocates his love and affection back to you as well. He is really quite handsome and I can see why you are so devoted to him. I, too, have a horse in hospital right now. I will add Willie to my prayers and keep faith in believing we will both enjoy happy outcomes.

[eventgroupie2]

Starsnstripes - massive jingles for you and your horse from Willie and me!! I do so love my Wille, I have three others but he is the special one that has completely stolen my heart. I do so hope that your baby makes a complete recovery, too.

[Zu Zu]

Morning Jingles for Willie !!!

[Altitude Rider]

Woo-hoo!!! So glad he's improving!! Let us know how the visit goes and when he gets to go home.

My boy Cody is gray although he was a strawberry roan almost half his life before he changed colors. He lived at high altitude in a lot of sun for most of his life. We have to do a Chemo treatment today, :no:

My local vet originally thought we should have done the amputation (would have been pretty minor but still going under anesthesia made me nervous more than anything). We went to UGA to disucss it with their surgeon and he said "no, way" that the cancer wasn't advanced enough so we went the chemo route which we have been doing since the fall and keeping it under control although he has some new growths now. The chemo treatment sucks, Cody hates it and so do I so not sure how much longer we can keep doing it.

Jingles that Willie goes home soon!!

[sublimequine]

Great news! More jingles to keep his recovery going strong! :)

[Zu Zu]

Bumping this up ~ any update on Willie today? Jingles !

[eventgroupie2]

I just spoke to one of the vet techs at Blue Ridge - not much to report different. The swelling is down a bit more :), still a tiny bit of bleeding from the incision but nothing bad, they think the sutures are holding this time, he was straining a tiny bit while urinating last night (which shouldn't happen with the catheter, which allows the bladder to drain). They don't think it is the same problem as before, as he has been passing plenty of urine, but rather an irritation caused by the catheter itself, so have him on a mild drug to sooth any irritation in the bladder from the catheter - he has been much better today as far as that goes. They are planning to remove the catheter tomorrow to see if he can go on his own. If not, obviously they will have to put it back in. So she said that is a big step for him tomorrow. They have been leaving the figure 8 bandage off during the day, and putting it on at night. She said they all love him there, and everyone finds excuses to have to go love on him and give him treats. She said he is so good whenever anybody has to do anything with him, always willing to behave and let them do what they have to do. That's the Willie I know and love, for sure!
No discussion of him coming home yet. I am a bit concerned about her mentioning the bleeding, although she certainly did downplay it. But I am so concerned that the sutures held for the first couple days after his first surgery, too. And today is the third day since the second surgery. I'm probably just being over-sensitive about it, but I will just be so glad to see him myself tomorrow.
I will let you know how tomorrow's visit goes, and try to take some pictures of him to share.

[Laurierace]

You are going to continue to worry until he is home and completely healed. That is part of your job as a horsey mom. Hopefully the good news continues and you are that much closer to the end of the worry.

[Bluey]

Well, wait and see, his body has to do the healing now on it's own.

Pictures would be nice, especially of the body harness, as some of us may need some time to rig something like that and it would help to have some idea how to go about that.

Best wishes for your trip tomorrow.:)

[Zu Zu]

Great update - thank you --- Jingles ~ Jingles ~Jingles !!! AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic -- Hope you have a grand reunion tomorrow! Tell Willie we are all Jingling for his recovery.

[amdfarm]

Awesome update!! Have a great visit tomorrow and yes, pics would be great. Never too late to learn something new.

Give Willie a hug and some pats for us.

Still Jingling!!

[LLDM]

Bumping for an update! :)

SCFarm

[lovemyoldguy]

Hope Willie is feeling great today! Huge jingles that he continues on this path and gets to come home with you soon. Hope you have a wonderful visit with your boy today!

[Zu Zu]

Bumping for an update - anyone know when they were visiting Willie ~ Morning ? Noon? Night ? Jingles for a good and happy visit and an update soon. Jingles !!

[eventgroupie2]

We just got home from our visit to Willie (we went to see some friends at a Toad Hollow event before we headed home). I'll put up the few pictures we took tomorrow. We could only see him in his stall, so they aren't much. And he didn't have his bandage on yet, either.

They were able to remove the catheter, and he seems to be urinating ok on his own without straining. This causes a little bit of minor bleeding each time, but we were told not to be concerned. The surgeon was not there, but we spoke to an intern for quite awhile. The swelling is less than it was when he was home after the first surgery, but of course, they had to amputate quite a bit more, so there is less to swell. But the intern said that the swelling has been going down, not up, so that is a good thing. There is some edema in his belly, but again we were told that it is normal and it will be re-absorbed. His blood count is back to low normal, which is pretty darn good after all the blood he lost. Today was his first day taken off bute, and it did not elevate his heart rate. I could tell he was uncomfortable as he kept shifting his weight. He is alert, and did head butt both of us a couple times (about his only vice), but mostly he just stood there. He did eat his dinner and pick at some hay, and he is drinking and pooping ok.

I just wish I felt more positive and less like someone has beaten me over the head with a two-by-four. :( The intern says we are still on day-by-day, as those tissues are so weak. We talked about watching him for founder, and she said that they are. The medicine they gave him for his bladder irritation seems to have helped - that and removing the catheter. It is very important that he remains able to urinate on his own - so I guess that is the next major hurdle. That, and keeping the sutures from pulling out again.

Unfortunately, we still need all the jingles you COTHers can send. I'll put up a link to the pictures tomorrow. Thanks again for all your support and concern - can't tell you how much they are appreciated.

[amdfarm]

Sounds like you had a great trip and visit w/ Willie and friends. :) Nice to hear.

Still Jingling strong for ya...

Thanks for the updates and look forward to the pics.

[thatmoody]

Our whole barn is pulling for you - keep up the good work, Willie!

[Bluey]

Thanks for the update.
All here pulling for your cute fellow.:yes:

[Altitude Rider]

still hoping for the best for Willie and loads of hugs for all of you!!

PS my old Arab is a head-butter too...:D

[cloudyandcallie]

Good update!

As long as there is manure and urine coming out of him, things are good.

And he's eating and drinking? That is great. The whole idea is to keep everything moving thru his gut while he heals, so that he can get home and walk around and get back to normal.

[grayarabpony]

Still jingling!

[eventgroupie2]

http://s849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/equiglas/

Here is a link to a couple pictures I took yesterday at the clinic. (the first two)

The surgeon just called this morning and they had to treat him last night for starting laminitis but he thinks they got it right as it started and put on ice
boots and gave him the medicine, and thinks they arrested it. No sign of any problem this morning. (no heat, no pulse). He continues to be able to urinate ok without the catheter without increased bleeding (just the little bit that they seem to think is normal). They took him off the bladder medicine in case that was contributing to the laminitis and since he seems to be doing ok in that area now anyway. On the good side, his heart rate is down closer to normal levels, and the swelling continues to go down slowly . He is still eating fine, and is back on bute so will be a little more comfortable today. The surgeon described it as a minor setback, and said "Every time there is a fork in the road, Willie seems to take the long way around, but we get there......". So we are back on wait and see, day by day. ( Even if Willie makes it through all this, I'm not sure Art and I will! :sadsmile: )The vet will call tomorrow with his update and I'll pass it on to you all.
Thanks so much for the continued good wishes and jingles - positive energy from all around the country has got to help!!! :yes:

[Zu Zu]

So glad you were able to visit Willie and get your head butts :)~ a good sign that he continues that if it is a normal part of his behavior. I am sure your visit helped him to re-connect immensely. I know you remain concerned -or worried sick but remember he is in "gooood hands" and he knows you are with him in spirit. Willie is a fighter!!! :yes:Thanks for the updates - was thinking about Willie and his family an extra amount yesterday. Hang in there ! JINGLES JINGLES JINGLES AO ~ AO~ AO ~ Alway Optimistic !!! Jingling for a solid RECOVERY DAY for Willie and His family on this Sunday !!!:)

[april1694]

JINGLES for Willie. Praying for his safe recovery. And hugs to you.

[Laurierace]

Well he doesn't appear to have missed many meals throughout this lengthy ordeal! Jingling for continued progress and good news.

[jaimebaker]

I've been following this thread with every update. Sending prayers and good healing vibes Willie's way (and sanity prayers for you!).

[Altitude Rider]

Willie is very handsome!!

We are still out here rooting for him to fully recover and get home SOON!!

Hang in there!!

[mp]

Awww, what a handsome guy. But then I have a weakness for gorgeous chestnut Arabians.

Best wishes that he continues to improve and he's back home soon.

[Zu Zu]

Any update today on Willie ?? Jingles !!!

[eventgroupie2]

Just got off the phone with the surgeon. Some of the sutures have pulled out and there is minor bleeding, but insignificant to his blood volume. He feels that given time, it will heal from the inside out where the sutures have pulled out - so that is still a worry but not the major problem.

The laminitis has gotten worse. They did x-rays and there has been some minor rotation. He has been drinking more, so he thinks it may be a cushingoid laminitis which is an endocrine problem and he is going to start him on pergonide. The course of the laminitis is difficult to predict. Right now there is nothing to stop our plan of treatment from going forward, but he doesn't have any idea if the laminitis will stop or get worse. Everything that Willie needs to heal up the surgery is contradicted by the laminitis - so we are kind of in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. The steroids and meds to help the swelling and healing will make the laminitis worse. With the laminitis he can't get any exercise. They have him in booties to help with the pain, and are doing what they can. So it all depends on the course the laminitis takes.

I think we are near the end of the road. I cannot have Willie be in more pain than he already is. We are going to try the Pergolide and continue to take it day by day. But I cannot help but feel that those days are very numbered. I am heartbroken, but we have done our best. I think we are running out of time. It is being very hard for me to remain at all positive, although I am trying. Thanks to all of you who have hung in there with me - I'll never be able to repay all your kindness to me during this ordeal. :no:

[asb_own_me]

So sorry to hear this latest update. Still jingling - but now jingling for your peace of mind and for Willie's comfort, however that is brought about.

{{{HUGS}}}

[LLDM]

Maybe it is just time to bring Willie home? It doesn't really sound like there is much more that they can do at the clinic. Laminitis as the result of medical trauma can resolve quite successfully (esp. since it isn't a related lameness/weight bearing issue). It seems like the complications from the amputation are resolving. There just isn't that much left for the vets to do. Sometimes being home is the tonic they need to turn the corner and come right. As healthy as he was going into this, I think being home would be his best shot at this point. Maybe he just needs his normal back?

I know how hard these long drawn out battles can be. And I have had them go either way. But, and this is just my gut talking, I think bringing him home would be the best thing for him.

HUGE JINGLES!

SCFarm

[Zu Zu]

Thank you for this difficult update -- please know Jingles continue ~~ JINGLE ~ JINGLE ~ JINGLE ~ AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic !!! Keep your spirits up and try not to second guess this - Willie is a fighter !!! Be kind to yourself - You have done The VERY BEST !!! Willie knows you are trying to help him and he is trying to recover. Recovery can be a slow and difficult process you have seen that but here's to Wishing Willie continues to push on through this period and can eventually return home to the family he loves so much.. Thoughts and prayers with you at this very difficult time. JINGLE ~ JINGLE ~ JINGLE ! AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ ALWAYS OPTIMISTIC ! COME ON WILLIE !!!!!

[Across Sicily]

I've been following the thread since its inception, just haven't posted yet...

Jingling for your Willie!! And crossing fingers, and thinking of him often. I'm sure he feels quite good having such a wonderful horse mom by his side through all this :)

[Altitude Rider]

so very, very sorry to hear this.

BELIEVE that you have done and are doing everything possible for Willie because you have and you are. He knows you want the best for him.

I have to euth a horse on Wed and I totally, completely understand your pain, efforts, worry and hopelessness.

I am truly heartbroken for you & Willie. I will continue to hope & pray something resolves itself for Willie.

It's just. so. hard. :cry:

[amdfarm]

Oh no!! :( I'm so sorry to hear the latest update on Willie. I think I would bring him home also, unless you're not there all day to care for him and look after him like they are at the clinic.

(((HUGS))) We know you'll do what's right for Willie.

MEGA JINGLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cloudyandcallie]

Oh no. Dex and others steroids can cause laminitis and founder in non-cushings and noni-IR horses.
Can they use anything to try to flush out the steroids?
Hopefully the vets will be able to stablize him. I sure hope he recovers and gets home again.

[grayarabpony]

So sorry to read the latest update. I read LLDM's post -- is he too fragile to take home?

[Mara]

I am so, so sorry. He's a gorgeous boy and so obviously your buddy. Stupid effing laminitis, always screwing everything up.
I'm still jingling for you.

[Zu Zu]

Morning Jingles for Willie and his family ! AO ~

[trubandloki]

Jingles for Willie!

[Laurierace]

Continued Jingles for a postitive end to this roller coaster!

[eventgroupie2]

Art (DH) talked to the vet this morning. Willie's surgery site is finally beginning to heal, no more sutures blown out, still able to urinate ok. Seems like we might be coming out of the woods with the surgery.
He thinks the laminitis may have gotten worse over night, but it is too soon to do more radiographs to see. They are keeping Willie comfortable during the process of ice booties, and he is eating and pooping normally. When Art asked the vet if it was time to give up, the vet responded that he would really like time to see if the Pergolide will help, but that takes a few days to get into his system. He did mention that with the increased laminitis, Willie might not be rideable if he pulls through. When Art told him that we didn't care as long as he was pasture sound and would be comfortable as a pasture ornament, we still wanted him, then the vet said that definitely it was not time- we should give him a chance for the Pergolide to work. So Art told him that we would give him more time, as long as they are sure they are making him comfortable and that he is not suffering.
So do you guys have any more jingles left? Art and I are about running on empty at this point, but will take this one more chance to save him. After all, this is all about Willie, not us. Thank you all for hanging in there with us. We are going to see him tomorrow afternoon.

[lovemyoldguy]

I have TONS and TONS of jingles for you. I can't imagine how hard it is for you and Art to go through this. Willie is a very lucky boy to have such a great mom and dad.

Don't forget to take care of yourselves (and each other)...it's so draining, riding this rollercoaster.

Big hugs to you, Art and most especially to Willie!!!

[Zu Zu]

YES !!! WE HAVE ZILLION OF MORE JINGLES for WILLIE!!! Thank you for update - you have a very good vet ! JINGLES CONTINUE for WILLIE and his family !!!! JINGLES ~ JINGLES ~ JINGLES ~ AO ~ AO ~ AO ~Always Optimistic. Pergolide has helped several of my friends. Ask about other/all methods to aid Willie in his Laminitic struggle- I do believe Willie will make it home to at least pasture and or a little jogging of he drives? COME ON WILLIE !!!!!!!! Thoughts and prayers continue - - take care of yourselves ~ so you can take care of your buddy "Willie" when he returns home. And blessings for a happy visit tomorrow. How about another picture -- PPLLEEAASSEE ! JINGLES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nlevie]

I am so sorry ! Lots of JINGLES for Willie !! Please know we are all following your story and have been JINGLING for him all along. I hope he turns the corner soon ! But please know you are doing everything you can for him ! Damn, this is the hard part about loving our animals. . .

[jaimebaker]

Still sending those jingles!!!

[mp]

Thanks for the update and I'm glad to hear the news is better.

And a small word of encouragement: Arabians are tough little boogers. One of our mares (Arabian) went toxic after foaling. By the time they figured out what was going on, she had developed laminitis in all four feet -- 12+ degrees rotation. It looked pretty grim, but the vets told us, so as long as your horse is hanging in there, you should hang with her. We did and she made it -- with no Pergolide OR bute because of digestive tract issues. Nine years later, she's completely sound and has had no hoof issues since then.

Continued good wishes for you and Willy.

[grayarabpony]

Still jingling!

[LLDM]

There are plenty of jingles left for Willie and his people!

I know you two are exhausted. Willie will tell you if and when he is ready to give up. Until then all you can do is to hang in there. I wish I could send you some energy and hope. But you will find all you need when you need it.

You are doing the best for him and I am sure he knows it.

SCFarm

[cloudyandcallie]

As long as he wants to live, keep trying. You can tell when that spark is gone from the eyes and they give up. So hopefully he will feel better. Laminitis hurts, but both of you can survive it. I hope he'll get over his operation and then you can concentrate on the laminitis.

And Altitude Rider, I am so sorry you have to put Ready down because of his ringbone, but you kept him going all those years and did everything you could for him, even when you couldn't ride him anymore. I hope Cody will hold his own with his penile cancer and hang in there for many more years.

[Percheron X]

Jingles, hope he improves.

[Mary in Area 1]

Many, Many Jingles for Willie from Vermont!

[TBMaggie]

Jingles, and lots of them from Wisonsin! Hang in there! Willie is a fighter - and I know you and DH love him very much!

[Across Sicily]

Jingling like mad for Willie! (I actually have a curb chain at home today to jingle with! Woohoo!)

If he's there and fighting, it's only fair to give him that shot. I really commend you for stepping up and doing everything for this horse. He is so lucky to have you!

[Zu Zu]

Morning Jingles for Willie and his family !!! Have a Happy visit today - tell him we are JINGLING for him ~~~ AO ~ AO ~AO ~ Always Optimistic ! JINGLES !!!

[Zu Zu]

Bumping this up --- for an after visit update ???? Jingles continue for Willie and his family.

[eventgroupie2]

Well, whew....... We fully expected to see a totally dejected little guy tired of being poked and prodded, tired of being in pain, tired of us trying....... NOT!!!!!! He actually looked better to me today than he did last Saturday. As usual, I have the good news and the bad news..... (the previous teacher in me feels the need to make a chart LOL!!!) Some of the problem is that what is good for the surgery is bad for the laminitis, and vice versa. Good for the laminitis - he laid down for a bit twice last night and once today (gets the weight off his feet). Bad for the surgery - blew through all the remaining sutures. Good news there- only tiny, minor bleeding when he urinates (still urinates without a problem, thank God!!). He has a minor "cavity" that they are cleaning twice daily to prevent infection and have him on mild antibiotics in case, but do not see a real problem there- surgeon feels that what is left can heal from the inside out. Swelling is still there, but going down every day. Residual swelling on both sides of his belly is almost gone. On the laminitis side - he is in heavily padded front feet ice booties, they put in extra stall mats under the deep bedding. (According to his intern, he has no love for the ice booties, but is tolerating them.) What makes us the most encouraged is that his heart rate is back to normal ( after being in the 70's before they put him on horse morphine on the weekend) just back to being on a low dose of bute, and the fact that after two doses of Pergolide he has stopped the excessive drinking and urinating. He is not "pointing" and stands pretty much squarely, which is another good sign. So we are hopeful that the Pergolide will be effective in stopping this laminitis episode. I am so afraid to be hopeful, but really feel at this point that he may make it home. Maybe only as a comfortable pasture ornament - so be it. I will still have my Willie to love on. He seemed contented and happy being brushed and petted today, and certainly enjoyed his few peppermints I let him have. He is eating ok - they have cut down his grain (he gets so little normally he must be down to a few pellets of his diet food), but he is enjoying his hay. I am a total believer in that they let you know when it "is time" - and as far as Willie is concerned - it ain't that time yet!!! Still gonna deal with one day at a time, but at least we think we are now above 50% of him coming home to his buddies.
Thanks for hanging in there with us.

[Altitude Rider]

YEAAAAA!! Go willie!! Thanks & love you Event Groupie!
C

[Zu Zu]

Thank goodness !!! A good visit and update ~ Jingles continue - AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic -- sorry I can not stop writing this at this point - superstitious !!!sp? - JINGLES ~ JINGLES ~ JINGLES Come On WILLIE !!!!

[mp]

See? I told you those Arabians are tough. ;)

Fingers crossed that Willy comes home soon to finish his recuperation.

[Mara]

I was almost afraid to check this thread, but sounds like things are looking up! He is one tough dude, that's for sure!
Still jingling!

[grayarabpony]

Good news! Sounds like he is getting excellent care.

[amdfarm]

Thanks for the good update!! Sounds like another nice visit, as well. Bet he was happy to see his humans. :)

Continued Jingles!!

[Across Sicily]

YAY WILLIE!!!!

[cloudyandcallie]

Absolutely great news. If he is not rocking back on his hooves then he is feeling better and the laminitis may be checked.
If he's feeling better, and if surgical wounds are heeling, he may be going home soon and then he'll start really perking up.

[MintHillFarm]

Just read this thread for the first time...sending you NY Jingles and prayers for Willie and his family!

[eventgroupie2]

I just talked to one of the interns at Blue Ridge. She feels that Willy is doing a little better than yesterday in being more comfortable. He continues to lie down some, which is good to get the weight off his feet. Right now he is in his ice booties and eating some hay after a nap. He is not drinking excessively, just drinking normally and urinating normally. The surgery site where it is somewhat open from the sutures blowing through is fine, and healing from the inside. They took him off the antibiotics for that since they no longer feel that it is a top priority issue. (They continue to keep it clean and monitor it, but feel it will be good to get him off the antibiotics unless signs of infection appear.) He is standing fairly square, doing some shifting of his weight, but less than before, and actually occasionally cocks one of his back feet to rest it, which means he is more comfortable putting weight on the front feet. He is still on bute, another medicine for his laminitis, and the Pergolide. She thinks they will be able to reduce his bute level soon, but want to keep him comfortable as possible until we see if the Pergolide is going to continue to work (certainly did stop the excessive drinking and urinating). He is eating well, and she says he was fairly perky today when she was in spending some time with him. Definitely an improvement in attitude since Saturday. He certainly is receiving the very best care possible, so I am glad we don't have to worry about that. I think that this is one of the few times since the second surgery that we have had two days in a row without a backslide. So we are hopeful that we are on the right tract (finally!!!) I guess the next hurdle is for them to make sure that the progression of the laminitis has stopped, and for them to assess the damage done to his feet. Stay tuned.......
Jingles still welcome and appreciated, for sure :yes:

[Altitude Rider]

Thrilled things are looking up for Willie & can't wait until he comes home! Will continue to have you and him in my thoughts.

Thanks again for your kind words about Ready.

C

[Nlevie]

I check in daily - so glad to hear he's improving ! Still jingling that he can come home soon !

[Zu Zu]

Jingles continue -- JINGLE ~ JINGLE ~ JINGLE ~ AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic !!

[Discobold]

Aw, I just got your e-mail this morning :( I hadn't clue about poor Willy as I've been to busy to log on COTH. I'm so sorry. It's heartbreaking to watch our beloved horses in pain :cry:

Jingling madly for a speedy recovery. Go, Willy, you are one tough dude!!

(I'm at work. I'll e-mail you from home this weekend.)

[cloudyandcallie]

Hoof and penis update? I hope all are healing well and he'll be going home soon. Everyday is precious.

[eventgroupie2]

I just got off the phone with the vet Friday afternoon. More good news- they are cutting back on the icing, and he seems to be fine with that. Not camped out or pointing at all - standing better and square. The surgery swelling is down quite a bit, and there is minimal drainage or bleeding. He is still off the antibiotics with no problems there, no temperature. The surgeon says he continues to make good progress. YIPPEE!!!!!!! It was so cute, the receptionist who answered the phone when I called said she had just come back into the office from loving on Willie and making sure his fans were turned all the way up, since it is quite a hot day and she just had to make sure they had the fans on # 3 to keep him as cool as possible. They all just love him over there, and I think he really has them all wrapped around his hooves, so to speak :lol: I told her that Willie is always sure that it is all about Willie, all the time, and she said she believes it. How nice to know that they are all taking such a personal interest in him when we can't be there ourselves. :yes: Can't wait to see him Sunday! I'll try to remember my camera and get some new pictures to share.
Thanks to all of you who have been following Willie's saga. We certainly appreciate all your caring, love, hope and understanding that helped to get us through those bleak days.

[grayarabpony]

That's great news!

[eventgroupie2]

Willie continues to improve - his heart rate is finally back into the low 40's, there is almost no bleeding or discharge from the surgery, and he has very little pulse in the feet. The best news is that our surgeon feels he may be able to come home later this coming week. We are still being very cautious, as we don't want the 1 1/2 hour trailer ride to set him back. He will still be on stall rest and won't even be able to do hand walking for a couple weeks after he comes home. But we can do that - we will just be so glad to have him back home. He is still on two grams of bute/day, which has me worried, but keeping him comfortable and his heart rate down is still so important. Our vet said they will start to wean him off of the bute slowly, and see how it goes.
We are going to see him tomorrow and I'll get some pictures if I remember my camera :lol:
Thanks for your continued good wishes!

[sdlbredfan]

I am so glad things are looking up for Willy. If you have not already joined the equine cushings and insulin resistance list on yahoogroups.com I highly recommend it. I could tell from his pictures that he was laminitis prone already just be being Arabian (Arabians, Morgans ponies and some Saddlebreds are the most likely to be IR/insulin resistant and therefore at increased risk for laminitis), and by being overweight. There are some dietary management things (fairly easy to do) that you can do at home to keep further laminitis attacks at bay.
One of the things you can do while waiting for him to come home, is check the files in that yahoogroup for sources in your area of a forage (hay) based complete diet with minerals already added, called Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes, or ODTBC for short. They are low in sugar and starch and can be used as a complete diet. For getting any meds into Willy, you can use some rinsed/soaked/rinsed again shredded beet pulp. For ongoing Pergolide, there are some compounding pharmacies that have it available in capsule form, which can either be added to the beet pulp or syringed in with some liquid.

[cloudyandcallie]

And............before you load him in a trailer for the long ride home, ask the vets about putting some padding on his soles. And fill your trailer deep with shavings.
Travelling on a trailer can make laminitic horses sore. You don't want any setbacks when he gets out of the hospital and gets to go home.
Great news that he's better. I hope he goes home and forgets this whole nightmare, uh nightgelding.

[eventgroupie2]

Thanks for all the suggestions! We already have a list made up to go over with the vet, covering just about all his care and feeding once we get him home. We made sure today that we could borrow (rent) the soft ride boots he is now in, or we will buy him a pair. We had already planned to deep bed the trailer, for sure.
Our visit today was great!! He is acting more like Willie, and is getting around his stall much better. They have stopped icing, and just have him in soft boots. His back legs were stocking up a tiny bit, so that is why he is in wraps - nothing to worry about according to the intern. No temperature, heart rate remains normal, all systems going fine, and no bleeding with urination at all. Still on 2 grams of bute daily, but they have plans to lower the dose very soon. No pointing, rocking, just standing square or cocking a back leg when resting. The intern is very happy with the improvement she has seen in the past couple days! :D
Here is a link to pictures I took today
http://s849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/equiglas/Willie-/

[Altitude Rider]

So happy for you that things continue to go well for Willie! What a trooper!

[cloudyandcallie]

And it is nice to have a good result. We were all worried there for a while.

Post some pix of them when he gets home and is "back to normal."

[eventgroupie2]

Surgeon called late this afternoon- all is looking pretty good. They are taking him down to one gram of bute/day so see how he handles that. If all goes well, he can come home Wednesday or Thursday!!!!
We"ll have plenty to handle when he gets home (including paying off the bill for the next 20 years :eek:), but I am so very grateful to have that chance. We didn't think he was going to make it several times, and are so thankful he did. Our surgeon and staff at Blue Ridge were top notch and put everything they had into saving this little backyard horse. Some of the credit also has to go to all of you that have been following our story with your jingles, hopes for recovery and good wishes. I know we couldn't have gotten through this without your support and we will be eternally grateful to you all for being there for us during this stressful time. Thank you all once again!
Once he is home, I'll start a new thread, probably with some questions :lol:

[grayarabpony]

Wonderful news! You must be thrilled!

[cloudyandcallie]

He's not a backyard horse anymore, he's a golden boy, very expensive equine.

I love those soft ride boots and think I'll buy a pair to have on hand. They look really good for traveling.

[trubandloki]

Yeah! Great news. I can not wait to hear how happy he is once he is back home.

[Nlevie]

Oh so glad to hear he's able to come home, although I can't believe how good he looks after spending that much time at the hospital. Obviously he has adjusted well and still has a good appetite. . . Continued jingles till he's home safe & sound !

[monstrpony]

Wonderful to hear, and continued jingles for an "uneventful" recovery!!

[eventgroupie2]

We are picking Willie up about 3pm this afternoon and bringing him home!! :D We have two pages of questions about his care, rehab, etc. etc. for our vet so that we make sure we do everything correctly to keep him on the recovery road. No more midnight emergency trips over the mountain, please!!!!:lol: Will let you know later how he makes out on the journey home.
Thanks again for all your suggestions, prayers and jingles.

[mp]

Yaaaaaayy!!! Great news. Here's to a successful and happy recuperation at home for Willy.

[Tiffani B]

Awesome news!

I had to crack a smile at the new title of this thread. Interpreted to read that the amputated PART was coming home today LOL! Your boy's name now has its own very special meaning. :lol:

[cloudyandcallie]

Awesome news!

I had to crack a smile at the new title of this thread. Interpreted to read that the amputated PART was coming home today LOL! Your boy's name now has its own very special meaning. :lol:

Well they could bring it home too. (When one of my aussie's had her tonsils out, the vet asked if his daughter could have them to take to school, uh yes, we didn't want them anymore.)

It's nice to have a happy ending for a sick horse. And he still will be all male.

[Zu Zu]

HOW WONDERFUL !!!! FOR WILLIE AND HIS FAMILY !!!!! WELL DONE!!!!! JINGLES ~ JINGLES ~ JINGLES ~ AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ ALWAYS OPTIMISTIC !!!!!!!!!

[Gayla]

Waiting to hear about his homecoming! :D

[eventgroupie2]

Willie made the trip from Blue Ridge in fine form - even as hot as it was hardly broke a sweat. What a sweetheart- got right on the trailer without a look back. I can't say enough good about Blue Ridge - they were absolutely wonderful to him. All the girls came out and gave him a hug before he got on the trailer - they were glad he is finally going home, but all will miss him. We had three pages of questions- which they took plenty of time to answer for us. His heart rate was fine when we got him settled in his stall, he pooped and urinated fine upon reaching his stall - all good. Checked vitals again about 8:00pm, temp fine, no rapid pulse or heat in feet, heart rate fine, eating his hay and drinking water. So all is good. Checked him at 9:15pm - all fine. We have a regimen for the next six weeks to follow- all do-able. I put everything on a calendar so can check things off day-by-day. Gonna take it slow, and do it right. So just wanted you to know he made it home without a problem. We are so thankful to his surgeon, all the vets, and staff at his hospital, thankful for all our local friends who helped us through, and thankful to our COTH friends who never gave up, continued to send jingles and hope - which obviously, with a lot of help from above - WORKED!!!!!!

[Zu Zu]

Thank you for updating ~~~ I think/ know we will all sleep better tonight knowing Willie is Home !!!! ENJOY !!!! Jingles ~ Jingles ~ Jingles & AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic!!!

[jetsmom]

So happy to hear he is home and doing well.:)

[jaimebaker]

Go Willie Go!!! Still sending speedy recovery jingles.:)

[amdfarm]

** HAPPY DANCE ** for Willie and you guys. :D So happy to hear he's home and doing well. Please keep us posted on his progress. Continued jingles for a complete recovery.

[LLDM]

Just absolutely thrilled for you guys! But I am sure no one is happier to be home than Willie himself. Gosh he must be one relieved pony! Sounds like you have everything all set up and ready to go. We will be here whenever you need us with advice, jingles or just to share your joy.

Bet you're finally sleeping well tonight!

SCFarm

[trubandloki]

Yippeee, Willie is home!

[Guin]

Great news! What a tough little horse you have! :)

[mp]

What a happy thing for Willie and you, too. I'm sure he's glad to be back in the comforts of home. Please keep us posted on his recovery.

[Discobold]

Woohoo, great news :) And I bet Willie knows & appreciates all you have done for him.

[eventgroupie2]

Well, I'm not so sure that he is thrilled with mom doing the same "bad stuff" to him at home that they did in the clinic, especially since I'm certainly not an intern, nor even close to a vet tech! They were all just so good, gentle and loving with him. The Pergolide does not seem to be a problem - he only gets 1 ml after dinner and it tastes (or at least smells :lol:) like apples - so that goes in easy. The bute in the am - not so easy- I'm sure he is so tired of being poked and prodded and whatever.... but he is good and takes it. Only 11 more mornings for that, thank goodness. The adventure is cleaning out the "hole" where the sutures blew out - has to be done twice a day with antiseptic soaked gauze. He stands really well for it, especially since I put his twelve kibbles of diet food that he is allowed in his bucket- that is good for licking for at least ten minutes while incompetent mom swabs at what is left of his "privates". ( OMG, my poor little dear- what a trooper!!!) Hope this isn't too graphic, sorry - but the tissue is granulating from the inside out, which is what they want it to do. There is still some oozing of some "stuff", and tiny bits of blood ( nothing to be called bleeding) - takes about 10 - 15 swipes and wipes of different soaked gauze pads to get it clean and get rid of the "crusties". Not pleasant, but needs to be done to stay on the recovery road. His soft ride booties are to stay on for the next two weeks full time. I removed his back standing wraps tonight to wash, and noticed some irritation on his back legs. So they are going to stay off until I see him stocking up again, and they'll go back on. His temp, heart rate (checked morning and night), eating, drinking, urinating, pooping all seem fine. Sorry this got so long!

[Zu Zu]

Good update - bet you are tired - care-giving is stressful ! Jingles ~ Jingles ~ Jingles ~ for Willie and his care-giver !!! AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic. How grand it must be to have Willie home!!!! Sounds like you two are doing just FINE!!!!

[Mara]

I am soooo happy to read he's home and recovery is going well!

[Across Sicily]

Sooooo happy to hear Willie is doing well!!!

I will continue jingling :)

[grayarabpony]

Must be wonderful to have Willie home! Good to hear he's doing well. :)

[Nlevie]

Yay - good news. Glad he's home - hope you both get used to the care routine !
And so gald Willie's willie is healing

[MintHillFarm]

Such great news! He is a lucky boy to have you as his Mom.

[LLDM]

Thanks for the update. Yeah Willie! I am very glad for you guys.

SCFarm

[eventgroupie2]

Willie continues to hang in there! Day 4 of home care and nothing (thank goodness!!! :eek: ) of importance to report. His temperature remains normal, his heart rate remains in the 40's (which vet feels is ok given the situation) except when it spiked at 60 yesterday morning - I think the excitement of anticipating his 12 diet kibbles was just more than he could take :lol: ), his urination and pooping is normal. He is getting around the stall quite well in his soft ride booties, and he really thinks it is time to end this stall rest. I'll be glad when I can at least get him out for hand walks - 9 days to go. His "hole" seems about the same to me - I clean it twice daily, and there hasn't been any bleeding, just some discharge goop. He continues to eat well. So I do think we are on the recovery road - just is going to be a fairly ong one. I'll update mid week for those of you still following our saga - thanks for everything!

[Bluey]

Thanks for the update.
That has been some kind of ordeal for your poor horse, but maybe this will take care of his problems.

No wonder our vet told us that, at 29, he really didn't want to go the amputation route with our horse.
He has had a good, long life and when it is time, it will be time.

Your horse is still young and I am glad he is coming thru this ok.

Now, a question, do you have a heart rate monitor on him, or are you just measuring it regularly?

I would guess also that anticipating some goodies may make heart rate go up, when you are on stall rest and that is the highlight of your day.;)

[eventgroupie2]

We are just measuring his heart rate with a stethoscope and watch. We do it several times for 10 seconds, and then take the average. Luckily, he stands very still when we are doing it, so we aren't having trouble getting an accurate count.
I agree, if Willie had been 29, I don't think we would have gone this route. I thought long and hard about it at a very young 19, with what we thought was a horse in excellent health. Hindsight is always easier- had I had him tested for Cushings before, we would have known how long it would take him to heal, and that may have affected our decision, too. But once we started on the slippery slide, we just had to keep going as long as he had the will to make it. So glad we did now that things seem to be going forward finally. :yes:

[Bluey]

Yes, it looks like he is going to be fine after all, thanks to everyone caring for him.:cool:

[Zu Zu]

What a GRAND story about a tough Arabian and the tough woman who loves him ~ Jingles continue ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic !!!

[eventgroupie2]

ZuZu-
No doubt about him being one tough Arabian - had we ever seen the light go out of his eye, or seen the look of him giving up, and just being too tired, too much in pain to continue - we would have made the decision that other brave COTH'ers make all the time - to let him go wait for us at the Bridge. As much as I love him, if he wanted to be done, he would have been. But it just didn't happen - one brave little trooper. :yes:
Me???? not so much...... ::no: I have basically been a blubbering idiot much of the time, couldn't sleep, cried through dinners making DH in tears, too, because he knows how much this horse means to me. I have not been able to focus on other aspects of our life, I basically was showing signs of depression, but just had to keep going for the rest of the animals and DH. Must say that I am doing much better now, as he is home and seems to be doing well. Even tho' it adds about an hour to our morning and an hour to our evening routine - it is paying off as we see Willie improving.

[Mara]

I don't even know you, but every positive update just made my day! He is just the sweetest-looking horse, and he clearly told you, "nope, not done, it's a setback but I want to hang around here with you guys a bit longer."

Cheers to all.

[Zu Zu]

No need to tell us you are not tough !!!????-- we will not believe that for a minute - you got through it and posted updates throughout !!!! That in itself had to have been extremely difficullt !!! Regardless of how you got through it ~ we animal lovers have all been there ~~ blubbering idiots ~ lack of focus and crying through dinners -however~ it was your animals' needs and schedule that helped you GO ON and GET Through IT! !!! I realize you are probably still exhausted from the daily stress but know you and WILLIE pulled it off - he did for you and you for him !! Enjoy -Jingles and AO !!!!!

[jaimebaker]

Go Willie! I check in for every update. Big cyber hugs to Willie and momma both:)

[Zu Zu]

Bumping this up for an update on Willie and his owner ~ hope everyhting is copacetic ! Jingles ~ Jingles ~ Jingles ~ AO ~AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic ~

[eventgroupie2]

Willie has been home one week today, and continues to make progress toward recovery. His temperature is always normal, his heart rate remains in the 40's, a bit high, but we always take it at meals, which tends to excite Willie a bit.:lol: The surgical site continues to get smaller and has less discharge, and is much less swollen. Drinking, urination and pooping is normal. He still is on complete stall rest for another week with his booties on 24 hr/day, but certainly has learned to zing around his stall in them. After next Wednesday, we take the booties off for 6 hours a day for a week, and he can begin 10 minute hand walks in them. He will be so glad to get out of his stall, I'm sure. We have made an appointment with our vet for Sept. 16 to come do radiographs and talk with our farrier to plan his trimming to be done that day. Won't really know how much damage the laminitis attack did until then. He is only on bute for six more doses in the morning, and gets his 1 ml. of pergolide every evening.
Last evening we had 20+ friends over for a Welcome Home Willie Party. We had a beautiful evening and all enjoyed each other's company over dinner and a few glasses of wine on the deck and backyard. Everyone had to tromp down to the barn to give Willie some attention - can't believe I didn't get pictures!!! Just wanted to thank our local horse friends who supported us as well as all of you - wish I could have invited all of you, too! :yes:

[Zu Zu]

How GREAT a party for WILLIE !!!! This update has made my day --ENJOY !!!! JINGLES ~ AO ~ ALways Optimistic !!! ps.--no one took pictures??? you must have another party in another week and put disposable cameras throughout the house and barn !!!

[eventgroupie2]

Just wanted to update those following our saga.......
Willie has been home for two weeks yesterday. We started handwalking today, 3 sessions at 10 minutes each, still wearing his soft ride boots. We took the boots off for 3 hours this am during stall time, and now have them off again for 3 hours after his dinner walk. This will continue for the next week. He has been off bute since Monday, with no ill effects. His heart rate and temp are in normal range, even after the walks and boots off today. I am still cleaning his surgical site twice daily, but it is almost completely healed, leaving just a small cavity for the urine to pass through. He still sprays a bit, so I keep his legs clean and use vaseline to coat them.
The farrier and vet are coming together next Wednesday afternoon to do radiographs to see how he needs to be trimmed.
So the miracle continues - thanks to great vets, prayers to and answers from above, and the power of COTH!!!

[cloudyandcallie]

Great news! I bet you are very happy.

You can use desitin on his legs and all where he sprays. It will really help and not be as messy as vaseline. Buy the big $13 or $15 dollar jar and it will go far.

I hope kiwayu has the same good news that you have.

[twofatponies]

Yay! That's good news.

[Zu Zu]

GREAT UPDATE !!! This has made my day !!! Hooray for Willie and his owner !!! Jingles ~ Jingles ~ Jingles ~ AO ~ AO ~ AO Always Optimistic !!! - can stop that at this point !:lol: Thank you for updating us ~ have been considering bumping up the thread but did not want to bother you -Another idea for keeping his legs clean is Pam cooking spray - worked nicely when I had my stallion gelded in April. Keep up the good work and we would love some pictures when you have time.

[grayarabpony]

That's wonderful! :)

[jetsmom]

Great news! Thanks for updating.

[Appassionato]

Yay for Willie and his mom!!! :D

[Moderator 1]

We merged the two threads on Willie's saga and most recent update, so all the info stays together.

Congratulations on his progress!
Mod 1

[trubandloki]

Great news!

[mp]

Thanks for the update and I'm so happy for you.

Pics when you get a chance, for sure. I have a huge soft spot for tough little Arabs who just don't give up.

[eventgroupie2]

mp - me, too :lol:
Will try to get some picturers this afternoon on our "walkies".

[eventgroupie2]

http://s849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/equiglas/

Here are a couple pictures I took while DH was taking Willie for his afternoon walk. I had gotten held up at work, so Art took him out for me. I snapped these as soon as I got out of the car.
Willie seems to be doing well. Can't wait to have the vet check him out next Wednesday, and to take radiographs so we know what our farrier has to do. Will also be glad to get him trimmed up - his feet are getting quite long, as he hasn't been done since the saga started Aug. 3rd.
I'll update after the joint vet/farrier visit next Wednesday. Thanks for following us on our recovery journey, and thanks for all your positive thoughts and prayers. They sure helped us through a rough time. :yes:

[Zu Zu]

GREAT !!! Made my day again !! He looks GRAND !!!! What a tough fighter and Handsome Gentleman !!! Jingles continue for steady & full recovery. Jingle Jingle Jingle & AO ~ AO ~ AO Always Optimistic ! Wishing a restful weekend to all involved in Willie's life !

[eventgroupie2]

Willie was fairly lame on his left fore this morning. We quickly took his heart rate to see if it was elevated, but it was the same as it has been. No temperature change, no heat or pulse in his feet. So we are pretty sure it is not another laminitis attack. Rather, his feet have really grown and his feet are really long - the farrier and vet are a scheduled for this Wednesday afternoon. We think that his soft ride boots are no longer fitting as well, and the left one had gotten twisted over night, and was quite crooked. So we are thinking that it was the twisted boot that either bruised his foot, or "twisted" his ankle, or something of the sort. I called the clinic and spoke to our surgeon, and he thought that might be a possibility. On his advice,we gave Willie a gram of bute this am, and will give him another gram tonight. He also suggested that we just take him out of the boots completely until after the farrier/vet visit on Wednesday. So we added a couple more bales of bedding, and have him out of the boots. He had been out of them for 6 hours a day, and was going on hand walks, but we won't do that again now until we see the vet. We are keeping a close eye on him to make sure nothing else shows up, and that he doesn't seem worse. Right now, he seems to be resting comfortably in his stall waiting for dinner.
So I guess we could again use some jingles if we haven't used them all up by now :lol:

[cloudyandcallie]

Well he's still making progress and a little setback is ok if he progresses more each day.

I gotta get some soft rides as their website is great.

OK so let Willie rest and then have the farrier trim him, and his boots will fit well again.

[Zu Zu]

Of course !!!! we have more !!! ~ MORE MAJOR JINGLES FOR WILLIE !!! Jingle ~ Jingle ~ Jingle & Ao ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic !!! Thoughts and prayers for a quick repair/ recovery for this left fore lameness today !!!! Hang in There !

[mp]

I'm sorry to hear he's gimpy. In addition to the boots not fitting, he could be working on an abcess. Try not to worry too much and let us know what the farrier and vet have to say.

[Zu Zu]

Bumping up for any update - it is wed, vet and farrier day ??? Jingles continue Jingle ~ Jingle ~ Jingle Ao ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic !

[eventgroupie2]

I really don't have the heart to go into it much tonight, because I have such mixed feelings. The vet did the radiographs and says there is fairly severe rotation (her guess was 10-12 degrees?) which means nothing to me, as I was too busy researching SCC and penile amputation and trying to take care of him, and my other three horses, Corgi, two cats, and husband to also become an expert overnight on laminitis. My farrier is wonderful and did exactly what she told him to do (with which he agreed totally) and poor Willie has what I believe to be his first set of front shoes in his 19 years. He has corrective pads of some sort, and gel to support the sole. He was so good, but they gave him a shot of banamine and then a mild tranq to do the shoes - all of which helped him to tolerate it, but he just looked so tired of being poked and prodded that it almost broke my heart. He does seem much more comfortable in the shoes, so that is good.

But the vet said we won't know if he is rideable for 6 months- 1 year. Worse than that, she said that he probably won't ever be able to go back out in our large pastures with the other boys. I did not save him to make a stall ornament. It isn't fair to him, but I was told that he could be a comfortable pasture ornament, and that was ok for us. But a stall ornament I will not subject him too. I am sure that I am over-reacting, and need to get a grip and go back to one day at a time - we are now back to 10 minute walks for a week, and bute twice a day. I thought I had been doing such a good job of cleaning his surgical site, but she cleaned it and suggested I be a bit more agressive in my cleaning. We got an ointment to spread around the edges, so I'll certainly do that.

I am just really bummed- I have been trying to do everything I am suppopsed to do, but now find that evidentually it wasn't good enough. Our financial situation is not great- hubby and I are retired from our real jobs, but both have part time jobs to suppport our animals. The fund got really stretched with the surgeries/hospital stay (although our vets have worked really hard with us to keep the cost as low as possible - they were wonderful!!!) - our total horsekeeping situation depends on our horses being able to utilize our 12 acres of pasture for much of the year. We can't downsize - our two TB's were "adopted" from a place that I will not send them back to, so they are ours. One is 21 years old, and scared us today with weird behavior that we are monitoring - can't even get into that tonight. :eek: The other is 13 years old. Our other guy is also 19, great QH, that hubby rides. So we have to make do with what we have, and figure out new pasture configurations that Willie may be able to eventually deal with.

I am so sorry to go on and on - I'm sure you are sorry you asked. ZuZu - I don't know you, but I can never tell you how much I appreciate that you knew today was an important day, and asked. And thank you to all who have followed our saga - I surely was hoping to have an "and they lived happily ever after" reply. Unfortunately, we aren't there.
Would love imput from anyone who has had this much rotation. Not to mention jingles :sadsmile:

[Appassionato]

I don't have much time to post at the moment, but I wanted to send you a lot of jingles and hugs!

[My Two Cents]

Keep the faith. Take it one day at a time. Hugs and jingles.

[sublimequine]

A "no grass" diet is not a death sentence! Take a breath, relax, and realize there are TONS of horses in this world who do NOT have grass in their diets! :)

You can set up a nice big dry lot for your boy (put the other horses in it to graze it down to nothing first, voila dry lot!). Buy a round bale for him, and I bet you he will be pretty darn content!

Don't lose hope, don't lose hope, DON'T LOSE HOPE! You've still got LOTS of options in front of you! :yes:

[Zu Zu]

Hang in there - things will look better in the morning - Jingles continue Jingle ~ Jingle ~ Jingle & AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic !!! Willie is home with his family !!You can make it work ~ I know you can ~ will pm later. Thoughts and prayers ~ get some rest so you can help Willie tomorrow and the next day and and the next day.... you know the drill one day at a time... keep your spirits up for Willie !!! and the rest of your animal family they are all watching & worrying too.

[TKR]

I'm sure you are very worn out emotionally and physically and it's demoralizing as well to get some bad news. I hope he shows improvement and is comfortable and that when you have some rest you will find a lifestyle that will be ok for all of you. God bless and many jingles.
pennyG

[lovemyoldguy]

I know it's so hard to hear less than wonderful news, but I want you to keep the faith. I have no experience with rotation, so I can't offer any words of wisdom there, but I can tell you that you're doing a FABULOUS job of taking care of Willie. (If I ever get sick, I'm coming to your house!) I've been following this thread since the beginning, and I am so incredibly impressed with the time and effort and resources and energy that you're devoting to Willie. I doubt he would have made it through this, even with the excellent vet care, without you there.

Go ahead and allow yourself time to be sad and discouraged tonight. Tomorrow will be better; it's a new day and I suspect that a lot of wonderful COTHers will be chiming in with suggestions about how Willie does NOT have to live a life as a stall ornament. In the meantime, remember that we're all hear pulling for you and thinking of you. Big hugs to you tonight!

[amdfarm]

^ What she said!!

Keep the faith, thanks for the updates, tons of jingles and, of course... more...

((((HUGS))))

[Zu Zu]

Morning Jingles for Willie and his staff !!! Hoping his adjustment to his new Michelin sp? tires is a quick one. Jingle ~ Jingle ~ Jingle & AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic ! Best wishes for a strong recovery day of sunshine and the comfort of being HOME with his FAMILY !

[Gayla]

AWWW. Don't be hard on yourself! You have done everything possible! And don't ever feel guilty for not being rich...this is the horse care board, not the dressage board! :lol::lol: I think it is totally normal for you to have these feelings at this point. You are emotionally fatigued and things are no longer an emergency and you are starting to crack up a little. You have been putting in a tremendous amount of effort for very little reward...which all you need is a little relief of his discomfort, and you didn't get that today. You could of used a pep talk from the vet. But she didn't know. So here I go. YOU HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB TAKING CARE OF HIS WOUNDS. YOU HAVE GONE ABOVE AND BEYOND THE CALL OF NORMAL HORSE CARE DUTIES TO MAKE WILLIE AS COMFORTABLE AS POSSIBLE. GREAT JOB. KUDOS TO BOTH OF YOU. :yes::yes:

[mp]

Eventgroupie, you've been through an emotional roller coaster and it's not surprising that you're exhausted emotionally. But try not to be so hard on yourself. You've done an incredible job with your horse and I really believe Willie be just fine. Here's why.

My Arabian mare developed laminitis in all four feet, due to a terrible infection after a rough foaling. She had 12 degree rotation in all four feet. Her digestive system had been stripped of all good bacteria by the antibiotics and she'd also developed severe gastritis, so she couldn't have any bute. She had good days and bad days, and I cried a lot on the bad ones and questioned if we'd done the right thing by keeping her alive. But she never gave up, so we didn't either.

That was nine years ago. She's a happy barefoot pasture pet now. She is rideable, but we have several other riding horses, so we just let her loaf.

A 10-12 degree rotation is serious, but it doesn't mean your horse will never be sound again or that he'll have to live in a stall. He's already through the worst of it -- the pain of the initial onset and his first shoeing. The six months your vet is talking about is the time it will take for Willie to get a good growth of new hoof. As he grows new hoof, the laminae will reattach and as long as there is no sinking, he'll become progressively more comfortable.

Ask your vet and farrier if there's anything you do to prevent abcesses. They're fairly common in horses recovering from laminitis. You also might look around on SmartPak or other sites for supplements that support hoof growth or ask on this site.

And if, for any reason, your horse isn't making good progress and your care team doesn't seem willing to try something else, don't hesitate to consult others. I don't mean to go fishing for good news or crazy cures. Just that there are a several ways to treat laminitis and if one method isn't working well, then start looking for other ways.

Chin up. Deep breath. Give Willie a big hug. And good luck.

[eventgroupie2]

Thanks for all the support- I really can't tell you how much I appreciate it. This morning things do seem a bit brighter- sorry to unload on you all last night, but I was really down.

Willie has great feet- has never had to wear shoes before. The farrier had to trim off huge amounts yesterday because it had been eleven weeks since his last trim. So growing foot is not one of his problems,:eek: thank goodness! We do keep him on Focus Hoof (from makers of Source) since we have had great results from that with our TB's and a QH mare who had the worst shelly feet I have ever seen until we put her on that. So all our horses get that every day. We do know to watch out for abscesses, but thanks for mentioning it!

The somewhat wider than normal shoes, specially formed wedge pads to support the coffin bone, and gel stuff injected to suppport the sole seem to have made him quite comfortable. I really don't think he needed the bute this morning, and I am going to really see if he needs it this afternoon. He had been off all the bute until yesterday, and I really don't want to have to keep him on it any longer than absolutely necessary. He strided out quite well on our ten minute walk this morning, although he is way more interested in sneaking a blade of grass than he is doing his "walkie" :lol:

[aaussie_gal]

I can't post pix but her xrays can be seen in the PHOTOS section of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/equine-founder/ ... AMEERA NABORRA Or if you PM me your email addy, I will send pix to you.

She was laminitic within 12 hrs of discharge from a big city hospital where she'd been for 10 days for tests and IV antibiotics for a life-threatening internal abscess. Our vets and farriers battled valiantly on her behalf, elevated heels, etc, but the xrays continued to show ever-worsening rotation till they told me there was no hope, CB penetration inevitable and gently hinted at euth. I had insurance on her, she more than met criteria for the mortality coverage, they delicately suggested that I should move on, get another horse. NO WAY! She wasn't ready to give up, and I vowed to keep on as long as she wanted to fight it.

She'd been on double dose LaminaSaver (as per the Horse Journal article) and InflammaSaver, for 2-3 months during this ever-worsening rotation.

I was put in contact with Dr Robert Bowker of MSU's Equine Foot Clinic. He said she WAS viable. He put me in contact with people who worked with my local trimmer and now, 5 years later, she's still barefoot and galloping with the herd, crossing rock, etc. She's 23 now. (Oh, and we never had CB penetration).

I'm not knocking any treatment regimen ... I'm sure the things they tried with Ameera work for some horses. But they didn't work for her. The important thing to remember is it's about THE HORSE, and if what you're doing is working, then great. But if it isn't, then have the courage to re-evaluate. And in the meantime, research, research, research !!!

My vet appeared quite relieved when I mentioned to him that Dr Bowker believed she was viable and that I was going to go that route ... one farrier told me vets' insurance only covers one treatment protocol, and they won't deviate from that.

Ameera was not Cushings or IR, but because she'd been drylotted for quite a while AND her energy expenditure was not high, we had to gradually get her out on grass as her feet improved. She had a 25'x25' temp paddock (Horseguard's trial package worked great for fencing!) and we increased her time out as her feet progressed, and long story short, she is now out 24/7.

Dr Bowker prefers two complete hoof growth cycles before riding, though you will have good laminar connections after one hoof growth cycle. Time on this varies enormously. Ameera's feet barely grew when the gizmos were on on them. Properly balanced trim made a huge difference to growth rate. Remember the heels of foundered horses grow quickly. She was trimmed weekly in the beginning.

The road back seems overwhelming, but there IS light at the end of the tunnel. SHe was kept comfortable on foam pads in deluxe equine slippers, and even turned out in them (soles duct taped) even though they say they are for stall use only. I had four slippers, and they're great, easy on, easy off, cordura upper, leather sole. I duct taped the cordura when it was wet and muddy and controlled the moisture in the foot with disposable diapers ... the gel beads pull moisture away.

Jingles!
Tarn in OK

[mp]

I'm not knocking any treatment regimen ... I'm sure the things they tried with Ameera work for some horses. But they didn't work for her. The important thing to remember is it's about THE HORSE, and if what you're doing is working, then great. But if it isn't, then have the courage to re-evaluate. And in the meantime, research, research, research !!!

Exactly!

Glad to hear you AND Willie are feeling better, OP. It's a long haul, but you'll make it.

[aaussie_gal]

Worse than that, she said that he probably won't ever be able to go back out in our large pastures with the other boys. I did not save him to make a stall ornament. It isn't fair to him, but I was told that he could be a comfortable pasture ornament, and that was ok for us. But a stall ornament I will not subject him too. :

Don't be too hard on yourself ... founder is a road to hell. Look at this link and see if something like this might work for your situation. Off the top of my head I can't think of the link, but someone posted their paddock paradise set up and their cushings horse is now able to be out and unmuzzled. The extra exercise helps enormously ... but of course not till Willie's feet have healed, AND your vet OK's.

http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/paddock-paradise.html Then follow the links.

Two years ago I rescued a badly foundered 5 yo 10.2hh pony ... no idea why she foundered. She's been rehabbed by the same protocol we used for Ameera and she's now out on grass 24/7 and fine. She's on no grain, just grass hay, and she runs with my biggies so gets great exercise. She was rehabbed onto pasture very slowly and carefully AFTER her feet were fine. She was not Cushings or IR. Maybe grain overload founder? Who knows. For her, the key is the exercise ... to keep up with the biggies, she has to trot or gallop.

Jingles,
Tarn

[aaussie_gal]

This is another example of a Paddock Paradise set-up, showing various phases in it's implementation:

http://thenaturalhoof.homestead.com/paddockparadise.html

There are three or four phases ... lots of pix ... be patient while it loads. The writer has an IR, previously foundered mare who has had no laminitic episodes since they went to the paddock paradise concept.

I'm like to do some adaptation of this in my big hilly turnout pasture over the creek, but not sure how to do it because we need daily access directly through it to dump manure from the pastures/shelters near the house. And I have an old guy dx'd with COPD 10 yrs ago (think they call it recurrent airway disease now) and he's on wet hay always, absolutely no access to dry, so probably won't implement until we lose him

We have had loads of 2" serge (rock) dumped on roads and in muddy corrals ... great footing, keeps them from wallowing in mud, and great conditioning for the feet.

Definitely food for thought ...

[RioTex]

I have an old race horse that hangs out here with us. He could be in work, but I just don't ride him much. Had an illness at the track and foundered during treatment, significant rotation in both front feet. Had the tip of one coffin bone removed and rehabbed at the farm for a year. He went back into race training and his feet held up but he wasn't fast enough anymore. He came to live here and we have not had issues with the feet at all. Different situation from yours, I realize, but 8-10 degrees of rotation and happy to be 6 years later. Good luck to you and Willie.

[Zu Zu]

Good Morning or GOOD POURING to Willie and his "staff "-- Rain or Sunshine ~ Wishing you a steady day - even boring is sometimes nice after a long struggle. Thoughts with you and Jingles continue !! Jingle ~ Jingle ~ Jingle & AO ~ AO ~ AO ~ Always Optimistic !!!

[JustJumpIt!]

Jingles for Willie this morning!

[Mara]

Good morning to adorable Willie and his attendants! Will jingle madly all day for him!

[grayarabpony]

Perhaps you could use electric tape and fiberglass poles to create a temporary paddock, as aaussie_gal suggested, once his foot has stabilized? Put one of his buddies in with him?

Jingling for you and Willie!

[lovemyoldguy]

Happy Friday and good morning to Willie and his staff! Hope you all have a wonderful day!

[Altitude Rider]

Jingles and glad things are looking up a bit in spite of everything else! You are doing the best you can, REALLY!! I do understand that look of "no more needles & drugs, please" but hang in there Willie, we're all rooting for you!!

I am going to send you an email soon about the SCC (hopefully by Sunday night). Cody is starting to act like his is really bothering him again, maybe we can learn some new things from each other.

Hang in there!!!