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Showjumper28
Sep. 10, 2009, 12:00 PM
Anyone have and experience or advice of jumping a horse who is over in the knees? Is it dangerous or just a cosmetic fault? Thanks...

findeight
Sep. 10, 2009, 12:30 PM
Well, it's like asking how long is the string without showing anybody the string.

How over is he and what kind of shoulder and pastern angles does he have?

Because it all depends on the total package and what you want to jump-as in how high and wide.

Anytime something is considered a fault and has been for centuries, there is a reason. It may never bother some while others are plagued with soundness issues related to the misalignment of the joint and the pressure put upon it.

So the answer is no, it is not just a cosmetic flaw-those are called blemishes, not faults. it is a fault. Maybe be one you can live with. Maybe not. It all depends.

JumpWithPanache
Sep. 10, 2009, 12:42 PM
My Selle Francais mare is over at the knee; never a soundness issue for us. She certainly has the scope, ability, and drive to jump 4' fences. But for the sake of being careful of any future potential soundness issues we're making her into a 3' Small Junior horse. Yes, it's a conformation fault which I knew when I bought her, but it's a fault that has never caused concern. I need new confo shots of her anyway, so I'll try to take some tonight and post them here. A photo of her jumping is in my profile.

Showjumper28
Sep. 10, 2009, 12:57 PM
He has fantastic conformation, except for him being over in the knees. I do not believe he was born that way. From what I understand from his previous owners, who raced him, they got that way from an injury on the track. They raced him that way for many years. He will stand up straight sometimes, just not all the time. My biggest concern is his being able to handle the landing. We are not looking to go over 2' with him as he is just a trail horse. I just wanted to know if this is a major issue, or if it is based on individual performance.

findeight
Sep. 10, 2009, 02:20 PM
... I do not believe he was born that way. From what I understand from his previous owners, who raced him, they got that way from an injury on the track. They raced him that way for many years. He will stand up straight sometimes, just not all the time. My biggest concern is his being able to handle the landing. We are not looking to go over 2' with him as he is just a trail horse. I just wanted to know if this is a major issue, or if it is based on individual performance.

They really don't "jump" at 2', it's a step over. Should not matter one way or the other.

If he does not stand that way all the time, am wondering what you are seeing because if he is truely over at the knee? He was born that way and would always stand that way because the bones are misaligned.

Does he sort of "bounce" on them? Sounds more like a soft tissue problem, maybe a small bow or something. Did you get x rays? Sore feet, especially heel bruising can also cause them to shift weight off the back of the hoof and cause them to bend at the knee. If it's not all the time, you have a different issue then this conformation fault.

Seven-up
Sep. 10, 2009, 02:22 PM
He has fantastic conformation, except for him being over in the knees. I do not believe he was born that way. From what I understand from his previous owners, who raced him, they got that way from an injury on the track. They raced him that way for many years. He will stand up straight sometimes, just not all the time. My biggest concern is his being able to handle the landing. We are not looking to go over 2' with him as he is just a trail horse. I just wanted to know if this is a major issue, or if it is based on individual performance.

That is confusing to me. It is my understanding that over at the knees is over at the knees. Period. If the horse can straighten his legs all the way, but just doesn't, I'd think that's a different issue and one I would want a vet to explore. I'm pretty sure that over at the knees is not the result of an injury, it's just conformation. But that might not be right. Someone else with more conformation knowledge can confirm or deny that.

From what I've heard and read, being over at the knees is less of a worry than being back at the knee. Back at the knee will put additional strain on tendons and such, so you really don't want a jumper with that fault. There have been lots of successful jumping horses who are/were over at the knee. Someone had a list somewhere, but I don't remember any of the names on it. I've even heard some people say they prefer a horse to be slightly over at the knee. There was a racehorse stud who was horribly over at the knees, can't remember who, but it looked like someone took the back legs and put them on the front end backwards. It looked crazy, but if I'm thinking of the right horse, I don't believe there were soundness issues.

I guess it would depend on the severity of the fault, and like findeight said, it depends on what the rest of the horse looks like. Now, like I said earlier, if something is keeping the horse from straightening his legs all the way, like some discomfort, that's a different story.

fordtraktor
Sep. 10, 2009, 04:05 PM
I agree with the others -- sounds like soft tissue, not true "over at the knees" which is a conformational issue he would have always had. The fact that he is more over sometimes than others indicates that there is a current soundness issue. One of my guys will stand like he was over at the knee when he is suffering from suspensory pain, for example. He stands normally when the suspensory is not bothering him.

Hauwse
Sep. 10, 2009, 04:26 PM
How old is the horse?

Do his knee's shake after he has been exercising, especially after running and scooting around for awhile?

Is his front foot angle the same on both feet, does it look off, as in it does not match the angle of his pasterns?

Does he have any swelling around the pastern(s)?

Showjumper28
Sep. 10, 2009, 04:39 PM
How old is the horse?

Do his knee's shake after he has been exercising, especially after running and scooting around for awhile?

Is his front foot angle the same on both feet, does it look off, as in it does not match the angle of his pasterns?

Does he have any swelling around the pastern(s)?

He is 16.. his feet match, he doesn't shake and there is no swelling. He tends to stand bent at the knees when he is napping or tired. I have heard of a tearing of a ligament or tendon in the back of the leg that can cause them to stand bent at the knees.

As far as 2' not being a jump, I think that would depend on the horse, no? I had a 16.1hh mare that I did the highs with who jumped 1' cross rails because that was just her personality.

Since over in the knees seems to apply to horses with a conformation fault, Lets say he is bent at the knees instead. His knees themselves are clean, and he does not have any soundness issues. So all I am wondering is if anyone has had any experience with jumping a horse who stands bent at the knees. Thanks

fordtraktor
Sep. 10, 2009, 04:53 PM
I would not jump or even ride a horse that is standing bent at the knee after work. It already indicates he is in some form of discomfort/lameness. When you figure out what is making him stand that way and eliminate it so that he stands straight consistently, then you can start working him.

Seven-up
Sep. 10, 2009, 04:59 PM
I would not jump or even ride a horse that is standing bent at the knee after work. It already indicates he is in some form of discomfort/lameness. When you figure out what is making him stand that way and eliminate it so that he stands straight consistently, then you can start working him.

I would tend to agree with this. I can't imagine a reason why a horse would stand with bent knees unless there was a problem somewhere. ??

forestergirl99
Sep. 10, 2009, 05:20 PM
Normally it wouldn't worry me because every horse has conformational issues, and being over at the knee certainly isn't the worst fault you could have. Someone on here actually posted that someone had told them it can actually give a horse nicer movement. My horse is over at the knee, and he is a lovely mover with a gorgeous jump. So normally, no. It wouldn't worry me.

However, a horse is born with their conformational faults. The fact that this horse wasn't born with this, sometimes stands straight, and possibly had an injury to the knee worries me. I would have a vet look at it before you start jumping anything.

sansibar
Sep. 10, 2009, 06:49 PM
I used to show a thoroughbred in the childrens hunters who was way over at the knees on both knees, he always pinned and was never unsound.