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View Full Version : Can't say enough good things about the Herm Sprenger Duo bit



dalpal
Sep. 10, 2009, 12:24 AM
I've owned my duo bit for three years...originally bought for my younger horse, it has sat in my tack drawer for about 2 years now...was just getting ready to sell it on ebay.

Dentist was out and I told him about my older TB (owned him for about 4 years now)...dry mouth, fussy about contact....he highly suspected the horse may have TMJ. His teeth aren't ready to be done, so he is going to come back in December to work on him. In the meantime, I pulled out my Duo bit, wondering if it would help him.

At first, I almost put the bit back in the drawer....it looked pretty thick and for a horse with TMJ, I would think it would make things worse. And this horse can be very spooky, would he just run through the bit and I would have little control during one of those bolts away from the chair beside the ring.

First ride...about 10 minutes into the ride....horse was relaxed, over his back, head almost on the ground, stretching into contact. AND THE SPOOKINESS WAS GONE. :eek: When I picked him up, he was soft, round and was happily offering lead changes (he usually gets angry)

By day four....we had these amazing extensions across the diagnol, a horse who was also willingly collecting up when asked....clean lead changes.

Today, was just an amazing ride....it was just a stretch day..so I took him in the big arena and let him go....I couldn't believe the push he was giving me...I asked for a little more....OMG, his back loosened up and you could just feel the extension underneath...collected him back a little...asked again, same result.

The transformation that this bit has made on this old guy has been absolutley amazing. I'm guessing that we had mouth pain, now this bit alleviates it and he isn't afraid of contact any longer. The spookiness is gone, he is no longer having recreational spooks.....he may look at something, but will immediatley listen to me and forget about it.

Two thumbs up for this bit!!!!! If only I had thought to put it in his mouth three years ago.

Daydream Believer
Sep. 10, 2009, 10:03 AM
I posted on another thread that the Duo bit is the only bit my stallion is happy in. Cripes...I bought him $500 worth of different bits from Bauchers to KK's trying to get him to settle in his mouth and finally hit on the Duo bit. He has a thick tongue, low palette, and is a sensitive type, and I think that is the reason why he likes it so much. I just wish the full cheek version wasn't over double the cost of the loose ring! That's NUTS!

I'm happy to hear your horse is still going well in the bit. It is nice when you finally figure out what they like!

BaroquePony
Sep. 10, 2009, 10:42 AM
Ok, what is TMJ? Also, is the duo legal in dressage? Not that that matters if your horse likes it unless you do want to show him.

I do think that some horses will not settle except with certain bits. Period.

Good for you to give it a try ...

myvanya
Sep. 10, 2009, 10:48 AM
TMJ are the initials for the temporomandibular joint. When used in the context it was used it refers to Temporomandibular Joint Syndrome or Disorder which is the genreal term for any malfunction with that particular joint. Many people have problems with this...I know I do :lol:

I may have to give the duo a try on my old gelding...i think you could use dental floss instead of a bit and he wouldn't notice, but I like to put him in the gentlest thing I can find...

Roan
Sep. 10, 2009, 11:19 AM
. . .I just wish the full cheek version wasn't over double the cost of the loose ring! That's NUTS! . . .

Where did you see a full cheek version? I've not been able to find one.

Eileen

dilligaff2
Sep. 10, 2009, 11:20 AM
Is it legal qualifying as a mullen?

BaroquePony
Sep. 10, 2009, 12:16 PM
Temporomandibular Joint Syndrome or Disorder which is the genreal term for any malfunction with that particular joint. Many people have problems with this...I know I do :lol:

Thanks for the definition.

Oh, I think I have problems with that disorder too :lol:

I have a really nice snaffle bit collection starting off with my first eggbutt in 1967. Yes, I am old :lol:

I just recently picked up the Herm Sprenger RS D-Ring (it really is a cross between a D-Ring and an eggbutt).

My pony (Welsh Cob) LOVES it. I can't believe I spent that much on a snaffle! Worth every penny. It feels different to me because I have a pony with a large tongue and a low palette and I pretty much feel his fat tongue in my hands ... however, it works and he works correctly in it.

He objected to regular snaffles and he really wasn't all that great in the KK or a Stubben French Link.

Herm Sprenger has always made exceptional bits ... and I go to them for anything out of the ordinary.

Daydream Believer
Sep. 10, 2009, 12:49 PM
Where did you see a full cheek version? I've not been able to find one.

Eileen

I think it was Dover who had it. Can't remember for sure. It's been a while since I looked.

I am not 100% sure these bits are legal for showing but I can't see any reason why they would not be. They are smooth plastic and I think that is what the rule book states and why the Happy Mouths are not legal.

swgarasu
Sep. 10, 2009, 12:59 PM
and why the Happy Mouths are not legal.


I am not sure which Happy Mouth bits you are referring to- the regular Happy Mouth snaffles ARE legal- I've shown in the eggbutt at a recognized show and they had bit checks.

Ambrey
Sep. 10, 2009, 01:28 PM
The ones that are not legal are the happy mouth mullens with the bumps.

Petstorejunkie
Sep. 10, 2009, 01:56 PM
Just goes to show you the horse picks the bit, not logic, not the rider, not always anatomy either!

quietann
Sep. 10, 2009, 02:52 PM
Are these the same as the old "Nathe" bits? I'd heard that HS purchased the company that made them, or the rights to make them, or something. I have one that's been sitting in my car since forever, waiting to try it on maresy, who has the sensitive mouth/low palate/thick tongue combination very common in Morgans. I do worry about her "running through it" if she spooks.

dalpal
Sep. 10, 2009, 09:13 PM
This the one that I have

http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp?pn=X1-01766&ids=26133680

Have to look again, but I am 99.99 percent sure that this bit is legal for dressage competiton...I remember asking before I bought it.

dalpal
Sep. 10, 2009, 09:16 PM
http://books.google.com/books?id=9NNobNYAiroC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=legal+snaffle+bits+for+usdf&source=bl&ots=8IlOxjUr0c&sig=mtuq42uP2Rsr0XFlOR3oM0HPUbg&hl=en&ei=kZapSvvqDaaltgeXh_mSCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#

Rubber/plastic mouth legal and mullen mouth legal

Ambrey
Sep. 10, 2009, 09:29 PM
This is also a good reference, and regularly updated for rule changes:

http://www.usef.org/documents/FormsPubs/DressageEquipmentBooklet.pdf

BaroquePony
Sep. 10, 2009, 09:33 PM
I beleive the rules show all of the regular, basically simple snaffles that are legal (regular single jointed, french link double jointed, regular mullen mouth, a few of the simple smooth rotating middle bean types that do not have a straight non-flexible hinge type action, and a few others that are basically simple) and then they state that any of those bits can have a plastic mouthpiece or be covered in a plastic as long as it is SMOOTH and follows the original contours of the bit - NO modification of the basic bit and saying you were just covering it with whatever because your horse likes it.


From the USEF Rule Book:
Dressage Attire and Equipment
Prepared and published by:
United States Equestrian Federation, Inc.


"... *Any of the above may be made with a rubber, plastic or leather covering, but the bit may not be modified by adding latex or other material. Bits with mouthpieces made of synthetic material are permitted, provided that the contours of the bit conform to the contours of one of the bits pictured above. Flexible rubber or synthetic mouthpieces are permitted ..."

Peggy
Sep. 10, 2009, 09:51 PM
The material is similar to the nathes, but IIRC, not identical. There is now a thinner one available than the original. I use mine at home for both flat and jumping and my horse really likes it. This is the one that I have: http://www.123tack.com/sprenger-loose-ring-duo-bit-16mm.html?productid=sprenger-loose-ring-duo-bit-16mm&channelid=FROOG

LittleMissCan'tBeWrong
Sep. 10, 2009, 10:36 PM
My very sensitive mare went great in her Duo for quite a while after trying every happy mouth out there but I had to switch her to a loose ring snaffle because she was just getting too strong but now she has started throwing fits everytime I pick up the slightest contact so I may try switching her back to the Duo and leave the (in her mind mean metal bit) for jumping.

poltroon
Sep. 11, 2009, 02:05 AM
I have the D ring. It's a nice bit and it is legal, but it's a lot of money to spend for a bit that won't last forever (mine's a chewer). It really bugs me that the D ring is twice the cost of the loose ring, but my pony needs the stability of the D.

I like that it's thin and just flexible enough that she can make it whatever shape she wants, but not floppy like a jointed snaffle. My mare really needs something soft but that doesn't move in her mouth. And, hooray, it comes in 4 3/4.

Equibrit
Sep. 11, 2009, 01:28 PM
Sprenger catalog - no Duo full cheek. http://www.produkte24.com/cy/herm-sprenger-gmbh-1403/gebisse-und-kandaren-5376.html

pintopiaffe
Sep. 11, 2009, 04:06 PM
Where's the cheapest place to buy?

Also not thrilled about loosering, but the Young Master Irrenaeus so far likes the HS Mullen the best but it's not *quite* wide enough... it only comes in the one size, the Duo might be worth a try...

poltroon
Sep. 11, 2009, 04:40 PM
Where's the cheapest place to buy?

Also not thrilled about loosering, but the Young Master Irrenaeus so far likes the HS Mullen the best but it's not *quite* wide enough... it only comes in the one size, the Duo might be worth a try...

This is a situation where Dover's obnoxious shipping charges really nail you - it's an expensive bit that costs very little to ship. I couldn't find the D anywhere else at the time.

The loose ring and the D come in different widths, oddly enough, so that may dictate your choice as well.

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Sep. 11, 2009, 06:02 PM
Thanks for posting that. I own that TB, too, btw.

I must try this now :yes:

Carolinadreamin'
Sep. 11, 2009, 10:33 PM
[edit]

Back to the topic, I went and looked at this bit today since it sounded like our new horse had similiar issues. I was holding it at the tack shop, looking over the design, and a lady walked up to me and said it was a miracle bit for her horse and she loved it. I ended up with the KK ultra, but am glad for the heads up this thread gave me.

HFSH
Sep. 11, 2009, 11:52 PM
The lowest I can seem to find it online for is $59. If anyone else finds it for lower, please let us know. I am working a young horse who is just a pill with the bit. I'm ready to switch his bit, but trying to figure out what to try with him. This might be worth a try.

poltroon
Sep. 13, 2009, 01:13 AM
The lowest I can seem to find it online for is $59. If anyone else finds it for lower, please let us know. I am working a young horse who is just a pill with the bit. I'm ready to switch his bit, but trying to figure out what to try with him. This might be worth a try.

I'm assuming that's the loosering. That's probably about the best you'll do. Just make sure you compare with shipping.

pintopiaffe
Sep. 13, 2009, 08:03 AM
What are the differences/is there a difference between Nathe & Duo???

Photos look the same... is the material different?

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Sep. 16, 2009, 11:09 PM
Those of you who had good success with the Duo on horses with contact issues, are you using the loose ring or the d-ring?

littlecasino
Sep. 16, 2009, 11:25 PM
My horses come straight off the track and get ridden in these so they are not afraid of the bit. We cross country school in them, if I need something more we use the duo three ring. Much happier, rideable horses.
I have used them in eventing dressage for three years with no problems.

horsepoor
Sep. 17, 2009, 01:03 AM
What are the differences/is there a difference between Nathe & Duo???

Photos look the same... is the material different?

I have both -- I don't have them in front of me at the moment, but what I remember is that the nathe is smaller in diameter than the duo. Also a different shape to the mouthpiece. The rubber/plastic also feels to be a different texture to me, so one might be softer than the other. I think the nathe is more flexible than the duo, but like I said, I'm going from memory and I might have that wrong.

If this is legal for dressage, has that been a recent change? I know we had to switch out as it wasn't legal for my one young horse to show in, but that was a number of years ago (maybe 5)?

poltroon
Sep. 17, 2009, 12:54 PM
The Duo has been produced in two thicknesses, 24 mm and 16 mm, if I remember correctly. I'm using a 16 mm.

poltroon
Sep. 17, 2009, 12:59 PM
If this is legal for dressage, has that been a recent change? I know we had to switch out as it wasn't legal for my one young horse to show in, but that was a number of years ago (maybe 5)?

I think there has been a change, but here's the current rule:

http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2009/08-DR.pdf


*Any of the above may be made with a rubber, plastic or leather covering, but the bit may not
be modified by adding latex or other material. Bits with mouthpieces made of synthetic ma-
terial are permitted, provided that the contours of the bit conform to the contours of one of the
bits pictured above. Flexible rubber or synthetic mouthpieces are permitted.

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Oct. 12, 2009, 02:12 PM
So I buckeled down and spend $129 at Dover for the Duo D-ring. The first few rides His Prince and the Pea was hanging on the bit (for the first time in his life!!!!), and we had some calibration issues, but he never felt out of control. After a a few weeks, we're getting a nice steady and even on both reins (!:D!) contact. It looks very promising :cool:!

The only thing is that it absorbs carrot juice! I have a nice carrot colored bit now :(

TrotTrotPumpkn
Oct. 13, 2009, 01:50 PM
I've read this thread with a great deal of interest, but am concerned about spending $60+ on a plastic bit that 1) may not last and 2) may not be a legal bit.

Has anyone tried this bit? I think it is the same thickness (photo looks fat): http://www.doversaddlery.com/herm-sprenger-mullen-mouth-loose-ring-snaffle-bit/p/X1-01113/cn/4662/

I'd be fascinated to hear if those horses that like the bit discussed above like it because of shape/type or if it is really because of plastic vs. metal.

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Oct. 13, 2009, 02:19 PM
The Duo really feels VERY different from any other rubber bit I've seen. It has a flexible, nice feel to it, and the surface is very smooth. I'd be very surprised if this wasn't a major factor in its success with horses who are not confident with metal bits.

NCSue
Oct. 13, 2009, 02:24 PM
We own a mare with TMJ/nerve damage. Her tongue actually has spasms that makes it look almost spastic. Has gone very quietly in a Myler bit -- don't know model but it has a roller so probably dressage illegal. Her tongue seems to fit the same conformation as those mentioned as being happy so perhaps a duo is in the future. Thanks for posting.

poltroon
Oct. 13, 2009, 03:32 PM
I've read this thread with a great deal of interest, but am concerned about spending $60+ on a plastic bit that 1) may not last and 2) may not be a legal bit.

Has anyone tried this bit? I think it is the same thickness (photo looks fat): http://www.doversaddlery.com/herm-sprenger-mullen-mouth-loose-ring-snaffle-bit/p/X1-01113/cn/4662/

I'd be fascinated to hear if those horses that like the bit discussed above like it because of shape/type or if it is really because of plastic vs. metal.

The Duo is definitely legal, no worries there.

For my horse, the metal mullen isn't as attractive because:
- Does not conform to the shape of her mouth
- She is better in the fixed ring than a loose ring
- It doesn't come smaller than 5"

I have used a metal eggbutt mullen on her, and it's not bad, but it's not as good as the duo.

I think the material of the Duo is very attractive and makes it behave differently from a metal mullen. That said, the metal mullen is still an interesting bit and may be exactly what your horse wants. I would probably try this bit if it came in 4 3/4".

Peggy
Oct. 13, 2009, 05:56 PM
I've read this thread with a great deal of interest, but am concerned about spending $60+ on a plastic bit that 1) may not last and 2) may not be a legal bit.

Has anyone tried this bit? I think it is the same thickness (photo looks fat): http://www.doversaddlery.com/herm-sprenger-mullen-mouth-loose-ring-snaffle-bit/p/X1-01113/cn/4662/

I'd be fascinated to hear if those horses that like the bit discussed above like it because of shape/type or if it is really because of plastic vs. metal.

I think in my horse's case it's both.

TrotTrotPumpkn
Oct. 13, 2009, 05:56 PM
The Duo is definitely legal, no worries there.

For my horse, the metal mullen isn't as attractive because:
- Does not conform to the shape of her mouth
- She is better in the fixed ring than a loose ring
- It doesn't come smaller than 5"

I have used a metal eggbutt mullen on her, and it's not bad, but it's not as good as the duo.

I think the material of the Duo is very attractive and makes it behave differently from a metal mullen. That said, the metal mullen is still an interesting bit and may be exactly what your horse wants. I would probably try this bit if it came in 4 3/4".

I just wish I could borrow one for a week. I think he could be less tense--it is very subtle with him though--I'm not talking anything dramatic. I have noticed the simpler the bit the better he gets (went absolutely ape in a copper roller bit-toungue out head tossing). He's always been the opposite of heavy ever since I got him. Pretty much the opposite of any other horse I've ever ridden now that I think about it!

HFSH
Oct. 14, 2009, 02:28 PM
My gelding has been in the Duo now for about 6 rides. I'm impressed. His mouth is more wet, he's taking contact better than previously. He's riding better. Only time will tell, but so far I'm happy with this bit.

I would like it a bit smaller, it is a tad thick but not awful.

inca
Oct. 15, 2009, 12:53 AM
I tried the Duo for my mare that was very light in the bridle and it instantly made a HUGE difference. I used it for over a year (maybe even 2 years) but switched back to a jointed metal bit after she got to the point that she would lean on the Duo. If she gets too light in the metal bit, I will definitely switch back to the Duo. (Unfortunately she is off work with a fractured coffin bone right now.)

I was truly amazed at the difference in how she went. She would get a "nervous mouth" with the metal bit and NEVER had that in the Duo.

My 4-yr-old is a little light in the contact also but has a TINY mouth so I haven't tried the Duo on her because of how thick it is. Wish I could find something similar that is about 1/2 the thickness.

Oh, I have the loose ring version of the Duo (for the poster who asked if those of us with horses with contact issues were using the loose ring or D ring.)

kiwifruit
Oct. 27, 2009, 08:16 PM
Anyone else have success with this bit? I have a horse that is very stiff in the jaw and back because he is always trying to get his tongue over the bit. So far I've tried a regular snaffle, a three piece loose ring and myler baucher (sp?) Thinking about trying it but the price is a bit salty...

poltroon
Oct. 28, 2009, 02:58 AM
I tried the Duo for my mare that was very light in the bridle and it instantly made a HUGE difference. I used it for over a year (maybe even 2 years) but switched back to a jointed metal bit after she got to the point that she would lean on the Duo. If she gets too light in the metal bit, I will definitely switch back to the Duo. (Unfortunately she is off work with a fractured coffin bone right now.)

I was truly amazed at the difference in how she went. She would get a "nervous mouth" with the metal bit and NEVER had that in the Duo.

My 4-yr-old is a little light in the contact also but has a TINY mouth so I haven't tried the Duo on her because of how thick it is. Wish I could find something similar that is about 1/2 the thickness.

Oh, I have the loose ring version of the Duo (for the poster who asked if those of us with horses with contact issues were using the loose ring or D ring.)

The original Duos were 24 mm, I think; the new ones are 16 mm, so that might be back in line with what you want.

Jleegriffith
Oct. 28, 2009, 10:28 AM
The Duo works wonders on horses with contact issues, fear of the bit and horses who won't take the contact. I use it on many of the ottb's that come in and they instantly relax. I can not even begin to describe the difference it made on my personal horse who came back from the sales barn with major issues about contact and went like a giraffe on crack. He would chew and turn his head sideways and rear anytime you touched him in a regular bit. A few weeks with the duo and he was stretching across his back evenly to both reins with no behavior issues related to contact. He could actually move forward because he was comfortable in his mouth.

Well worth the money if you a horse who has some of the above issues. I was able to transition to a kk ultra later down the road but am thinking that he has started up with some of the same issues as before so am going to try the duo again.

TrotTrotPumpkn
Oct. 28, 2009, 11:01 AM
I had mouth contact the whole ride for the first time (ever?). My Ottb (10 years off the track at least) would always curl to escape contact when I tried to put him on the bit, but that was greatly reduced with the Duo bit yesterday. While I wouldn't call him heavy by any means he was always there on the other end of the reins. We also had the best leg yeilds EVER (and this is a horse that has 3 times under saddle after 5 mos off) and shoulder in was lovely as well--you'd never know he hadn't been ridden in months.

SO HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!

quietann
Nov. 10, 2009, 02:48 PM
Heh. I tried the Duo bit yesterday, and it was wonderful until about halfway through the ride, when maresy figured out she could run through it! Man, I'd forgotten how much she loves to gallop... :lol:

(Back to the Stubben EZ-control snaffle, I guess...)