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Just Walter
Sep. 9, 2009, 10:37 AM
Would you buy a 7 year old exracer who has had 32 starts? He's hot, looks really nicely put together. Aside from a little bit longish pasterns )and ears for that matter :lol: ) I like him a lot, but would like to know what you all would look for. He will be my next Eventer/Dressage horse.

Also I know there are bloodlines to be wary of (breaking down bodily, or errant in the brain department, mean, etc)...but I don't know very much about them. Here is this guys pedigree:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/sendero3

All your comments are really appreciated!

foundationmare
Sep. 9, 2009, 11:02 AM
Walter, assuming the guy has no obvious problems, I see no reason for you to be concerned about him. Is it the age you're concerned about? Number of starts?

He had a fairly decent racing record and 32 starts isn't necessarily a lot.

Of course, I have a 7 y.o. OTTB for sale and I would hope that his age isn't a red flag to potential buyers!

DickHertz
Sep. 9, 2009, 11:07 AM
The number of starts a horse has should have no bearing on whether you buy them or not. I've had horses with 3 starts who are very fragile and not sound while I've had horses with 50 starts who are dead sound. You gotta examine each horse individually and ignore the number of starts they've had. If you want to look at anything, look at whether there were gaps of at least 6 months in their race record other than between the 2 and 3 year old years (when many babies buck shins or are simply given time off after a few starts).

Barbara L.
Sep. 9, 2009, 11:09 AM
We have a 12yo for adoption that raced until last year--he looks like a chubby quarter horse, and is very serious. I'd have no problem recommending him for a show career! If they make it through the racing wars until that age--then they are true war horses, and usually have great work ethics.

We have found homes for an 11yo (who raced until he was 10 at about 9 different tracks) who is enroute to an eventing career, and a 10yo who is clean legged and sweet and a former stakes winner. Seven sounds like a baby to me!!!

Brandy76
Sep. 9, 2009, 11:15 AM
Bought him from the track as an 8 year old with 61 starts! Just finishing up his first season of eventing.

Go for it! They have a lot of try in them.
In 1973, I got a 10 year old who had raced...... 172 times!! Yes, indeedy. He was my children's hunter and my father did dressage up to 1st level with him. And he had an old bow.

MintHillFarm
Sep. 9, 2009, 11:15 AM
I would have no objection to that...we currently have one in the barn that had 38 starts and I personally had a one I bought as a 4 yr old with over 45 starts...
Look at them as individuals, some will hold up better than others...

Barnfairy
Sep. 9, 2009, 12:39 PM
Well heck. I bought one that was 10 years old with 130 races under his belt, and I wouldn't trade him for the world.

By the way, if the horse you are looking at is Sendero born in 2002, that pedigree from pedigree query is quite incorrect.

Here is the accurate pedigree: Sendero (http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=6490532&registry=T&horse_name=Sendero&dam_name=Ring of Kerry&foaling_year=2002&nicking_stats_indicator=Y) He's out of the Housebuster mare Ring of Kerry, not Ring by Spring.

At current Sendero has 35 starts, 4 wins, 4 seconds, 5 thirds, $71,404 lifetime earnings with the bulk of that coming from his first year at the track. His starts have been spread out over 4 years; that's pretty conservative. That could mean he's just been raced lightly the last few years...or it could mean he's had something bugging him.

All horses are individuals so go by what's in front of you. Get him vetted if you're concerned he hasn't held up.

BeverlyAStrauss
Sep. 9, 2009, 12:40 PM
Often the young lightly raced ones have more problems bc they weren't as fast and had to work harder to make it around the track resulting in injuries....
My old war horse ran until he was 9, made a good bit of money, legs are not the prettiest but he has not taken a lame step in his new eventing career. As the other posters have advised, look at the individual.

TB Fan
Sep. 9, 2009, 12:53 PM
My OTTB raced until he was 13 with 120 starts (and finishes if I do say so myself). He's 25 now although no one told him that yet. He was being re-trained for dressage which would've been a good second career for him until his previous owner ran into financial troubles. I am a mere pleasure rider but my guy is SOLID. I agree that the ones with more starts are probably pretty darned tough physically.

One positive note to those who were on the track for longer than normal are very easy to work with when it comes to treating nicks/cuts/injuries. They are pros. I think they are used to people fawning over their legs.

QHEventr
Sep. 9, 2009, 01:06 PM
ABSOLUTLY! Just last year, I purchased a 14 yr old who had just wrapped up racing. He has 145 starts and 275k in earnings. He is SOUND, SOUND, SOUND! If there are no major injuries, or issues, I say GO FOR IT!

My guy is now enjoying his new eventing career, and shows a ton of capability! I love the older warriors, as they are typically VERY professional, and know their jobs, and able to easily adapt.

Also, My former advanced event horse, Northlight (JC Diamondham) raced till he was 6, I got him when he was 7....he had 26 starts. He went on to have a very succesfull career as an event horse.

Johanna

Seven-up
Sep. 9, 2009, 01:30 PM
A long time ago, my trainer bought a horse that had 130+ starts. I believe he was 7. I don't even think she had him vetted. Crazy, but he was the soundest horse I've ever seen. The only time I ever remember him being lame was when he got kicked very badly during turnout.

I know for sure he did the modified jumpers, if not higher. He was passed around between several people in the barn over the years, and if I have my facts right, he just retired fully last year at 25.


I would never expect to get that lucky again, but it just goes to show that it can happen.

Today, I would vet the snot out of that horse, but if he looked good, and fit all my other requirements, I wouldn't hesitate to take him.

Beam Me Up
Sep. 9, 2009, 02:13 PM
I've had 2 upper level event horses with 50+ starts (one had 100+ before switching to steeplechasing) and they were the soundest horses I've had, went for years, never an injection--oddly enough, more so than the unraced/lightly raced ones.

I guess there is something to be said for a body that holds up to all of that and retires sound.

If you are looking to resell, buying something older does put you (potentially) a couple years behind the competition, who came off the track and started their new careers at 3/4, but from a soundness perspective I wouldn't be more worried about that than I would be about any horse coming off the track (which I'd vet!)

QHEventr
Sep. 9, 2009, 02:19 PM
Seven up- Why would you suggest "vetting the snot out of that horse" in particular? Yes, I always suggest having a vetting done, but a GOOD vet knows what to look for/at, and honestly, most of the times, the guys with that many starts tend to be iron horses. I bought my 14 yr old last year sight unseen (well, I had photos) and did not have a vetting done. Once he got down here, we had a PPE (Post purchase) and my vets comment (who is a sport horse lameness specialist) was "do you really want to see what the rads look like? You ride the horse, not the radiographs". Thomas was negative on all of his flexions even though he's got big front ankles. We know he's got calcification, but he's sound, and exceptionally athletic. We also know that he bowed LOW LOW when he was probably 2 and if he can run sound on it, and his ankle, then he's the kind of horse I want around.

If you "vet the snot" out of the horse, any vet will find some issue. Especially on an older campaigner. A good vet will know what you and the horse can live with for your chosen occupation.

Now, if you want the horse for resale, then, by all means, nit pick! as we all know how picky buyers can be.

Wanted to add.....My former Advanced horse never had injections done during his entire career. He never needed them. I see so many having to have them dome for maintaining soundness at the upper levels, but even my new guy hasn't needed anything done. They have iron legs apparently

Johanna

YoTambien
Sep. 9, 2009, 02:44 PM
The Exceller Fund took in a 9 year old horse with 138 starts. He is now a happy trail horse for his adoptive owner.

maunder
Sep. 9, 2009, 02:48 PM
I have a campaigner of 70 starts and he turned eight in January (really he did;) - his birthday is indeed January 31st).

I didn't consider his age at all. The older campaigners are special!

cloudyandcallie
Sep. 9, 2009, 02:52 PM
I bought an 18 yr old ottb mare who had had 26 starts (3-4-5) and who had had 6 live foals.
Sound and well, a little hot, lol.

And she was the best horse I ever had, including the expensive German WB I still have.

MintHillFarm
Sep. 9, 2009, 03:04 PM
I am interested in a horse now that is 8 yrs old, 16.2hh, a mare and has had 68 starts over 6 yrs. She trotted out of her stall better than a lot younger ones!

actcasual
Sep. 9, 2009, 03:52 PM
If the horse has trained for just about anything as long as this guy has, a vet can find something unappealing about him.
The nice thing about an old campaigner is that you usually know where the issues are instead of speculating about where they might be later. But, as other posters mentioned, what's even better is that the horse has already demonstrated that he uses himself well and stays sound enough to train and compete in a very demanding environment.
I'd be a lot more interested in how he feels mentally about changing careers.

War Admiral
Sep. 9, 2009, 04:19 PM
For my PERSONAL riding/show horses, I won't take an OTTB who is under 7. And frankly I prefer them even older than that! :yes:

Jleegriffith
Sep. 9, 2009, 04:22 PM
Just a few I am thinking of off the top of my head that I got to know:

Top Punch- (USA) gr/r. G, 1997 DP = 12-4-11-3-0 (30) DI = 2.53 CD = 0.83 - 50 Starts, 9 Wins, 5 Places, 8 Shows Career Earnings: $168,680

He was donated to CANTER still racing sound as a 12yr. He was sound and well cared for and transitioned so quickly into his new career. My friend will be foxhunting him this winter but he has taken to everything she asks him to do. Solo trail rides, group trail rides, x-c schooling and more!

Fleet Aint- dkb/br. G, 2000 DP = 10-0-10-4-0 (24) DI = 1.67 CD = 0.67 - 47 Starts, 5 Wins, 7 Places, 9 Shows Career Earnings: 88773

I bought him from CANTER PA. He was sound with a bit of ankle osselets but he did have string halt. He was still sound and went on to a competitive event career.

Craybaby Capt Sid- gr. G, 1994 DP = 8-11-19-1-1 (40) DI = 2.48 CD = 0.60 - 52 Starts, 5 Wins, 8 Places, 6 Shows Career Earnings: 101859

He was a horse my mom bought later in his life but he raced a long career and was sound.

I think these older horses have a lot to offer and if they can stay sound racing then a performance career is not likely to be anymore difficult.

EquineRacers
Sep. 9, 2009, 06:58 PM
I know the owner of this horse and I can assure you she is completely honest about the horses she places up for sale. As well as her Husbend and her work with show horses and do know a good prospect when they see one. By viewing the photos of this guy, I really like him. He spells fancy to me as well as has the suspension in the hind. I'd say he is worth a shot!

foundationmare
Sep. 9, 2009, 07:00 PM
If I had unlimited resources I would privately purchase and/or claim some of these old campaigners because, by gosh, they've proven their mettle and just beg to be given jobs once they're retired from the track.

I can think of sooo many just from my neck of the woods (Midnight Secret, 12 y.o., still racing, still competitive....loff him) and he's just one. Yes, it is true that the older ones are the hard knockers and are perhaps most deserving of consideration as highly serviceable athletes in a variety of disciplines.

There is no broad brush that can be applied, however. One person's used up 3 y.o. with problems is not the 3 y.o. from a reputable trainer/owner/breeder that just has a case of the slows. There are just so many sound, terrific OTTBs who are incipient diamonds in the rough.

Blinkers On
Sep. 9, 2009, 07:32 PM
If you are getting the horse from Paula Capestro, It's got to be good looking! She has a great eye for horses! I am good friends with her assistant, and he also gallops. He does a good job. I wouldn't hesitate to take a horse from Paula ever.

War Admiral
Sep. 9, 2009, 08:23 PM
Thanks FoundationMare - I happen to TRULY prefer the older ones. For several reasons: one, if it's coming off the track sound at age 10, there's not much the likes of ME can do to break it :D; two, the older ones have a PROVEN work ethic and are likely to take kindly to having a new job, not minding so much what it is as whether it's fun; three, they are the most unflappable and "whatever" about life. They've just seen/done/experienced more than their baby counterparts, which makes them the perfect projects for an amateur-owner trainer. I've bought young and sold on, but my personal OTTBs tend to be 10+ at point of acquisition, even if they retired a bit earlier and sat around in a field (so much the better). LOFF the older ones. LOFF them. Still my preferred choice (even though I'm taking a spin on Planet ASB at the moment :D).

gnu
Sep. 9, 2009, 09:00 PM
I took a horse who was headed to Sugar Creek 3 wks after his last race. 74 starts, 23 each in his 3 yr old and 5 yr old years. Solid intermediate event horse. No maintenance. Current just- starting prelim horse had 22 starts by spring of his 4 yr old year. Unless I know the trainer, I am suspicious of a horse w/ very few starts.

foundationmare
Sep. 9, 2009, 09:40 PM
There are so, so many of these diamonds in the rough. Check out the FLTAP horses for adoption. Am I violating rules? There are potential champions here!

ex-racer owner
Sep. 9, 2009, 10:00 PM
One positive note to those who were on the track for longer than normal are very easy to work with when it comes to treating nicks/cuts/injuries. They are pros. I think they are used to people fawning over their legs.


I beg to differ with that last part!! :yes: I bought my boy towards the end of his eighth year, off the track. He had 38 starts, 5 wins, 6 places, and 2 shows. Earned $92,506 as a turf horse and he is horrible about treating nicks, cuts, and injuries!:mad: Unfortunately, we have been going through a tough time right now with an undiagnosable lameness and the extra poking and prodding is probably getting on his last nerve. I will say he does respect the lip chain and he knows when that comes out, it is getting down to business time.

Anyhow, while I won't tell you not to get him (please help a horse out!), depending on what you are planning on doing with him, I would recommend at least having a vet look at him. I wish I had. I don't begrudge my "money pit" his hock injections, or the arthroscopic surgery to remove bone chip from knee, but in hindsight, I should have known what I was getting into. He is a very expensive cheap horse.

I will say in defense of my boy, when he feels good he is awesome and he did come with a wonderful work ethic. He is one of those "busy" horses that does best when he has something to do.

jenarby
Sep. 9, 2009, 10:11 PM
Just stopping in to say thanks for all the stories from those of you with older horses. I'm the one who owns this horse and I think Just Walter will love him. Rode him today...first time off the track and he was very quiet, no spook, no sillies. He was full of himself the first day of turn out but now (only two days later) he's pretty laid back.
I personally retired on of our mares about 4 months ago and kept her for myself....planning to event. She's 8 this year and has small osselets on both ankles. We are jumping and having a blast. I adore her work ethic and willingness.
Here are a few pics of the guy in question:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/jenarby/senderoride4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/jenarby/senderoride5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/jenarby/senderoride7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/jenarby/sendero4.jpg

QHEventr
Sep. 9, 2009, 10:36 PM
someone is CRAZY if they turn him down! He is lovely!

Sabovee
Sep. 9, 2009, 10:56 PM
I know the owner of this horse and I can assure you she is completely honest about the horses she places up for sale. As well as her Husbend and her work with show horses and do know a good prospect when they see one. By viewing the photos of this guy, I really like him. He spells fancy to me as well as has the suspension in the hind. I'd say he is worth a shot!

Agreed. I've gotten um.... 6 horses from the seller. They are exactly what she says they are. She has a spectacular eye.

jengersnap
Sep. 10, 2009, 07:40 AM
Here are a few pics of the guy in question:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/jenarby/senderoride4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/jenarby/senderoride5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/jenarby/senderoride7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v17/jenarby/sendero4.jpg

Um, eye candy. :yes:
If the OP passes, I'm sure a half dozen others would like to know more about him. He looks extremely sensible and professional.

I plan to take our 10 year old still-racing "old guy" trail riding this winter. He just ran second this week, bringing his lifetime earnings just over $200,000. He's also a stakes winner and multiple stakes placed.

b. G, 1999 DP = 3-1-3-0-7 (14) DI = 0.65 CD = -0.50 - 78 Starts, 6 Wins, 9 Places, 6 Shows Career Earnings: $200,597

danceronice
Sep. 10, 2009, 10:16 AM
I got my guy at 4 coming 5, off-track for six months. He was about 7 when he decided to put his head on straight and after that was more or less unflappable, at least under saddle (acted like a three-year-old colt in turnout)--I'd say if you can always go for the older guy! IME most TBs get smarter as they get older, and if they raced a lot without any super-long breaks then they are probably sounder than your average show horse because they need legs of iron to keep racing that long. I keep telling myself, no more babies, buy older!

I just looked at the pictures--uh...he's horrible. You should send him to live with me immediately. ;)

War Admiral
Sep. 10, 2009, 12:23 PM
I just looked at the pictures--uh...he's horrible. You should send him to live with me immediately. ;)

Ha - same!!! :D

Hollywood
Sep. 10, 2009, 03:14 PM
Wow - he is lovely!

I have an OTTB that is 9yrs old, he was still racing at 7yrs old when I bought him right off the track - he had 61 starts - and he is the most amazing horse I have had the pleasure to own. He made his debut at eventing this year, and he's far more talented than his mother:-)

I am hoping to find another just like him!

Just Walter
Sep. 10, 2009, 07:04 PM
I know the owner of this horse and I can assure you she is completely honest about the horses she places up for sale. As well as her Husbend and her work with show horses and do know a good prospect when they see one. By viewing the photos of this guy, I really like him. He spells fancy to me as well as has the suspension in the hind. I'd say he is worth a shot!

I ABSOLUTELY agree the owner is impecable! :) I did by a horse found for me before. I just wondered as this one is a bit older than the last one I bought. I do like to hear the older the better. All points point to YES!!!!

Just Walter
Sep. 10, 2009, 07:09 PM
BTW...jenarby...will call next week. :)

goeslikestink
Sep. 10, 2009, 07:16 PM
Would you buy a 7 year old exracer who has had 32 starts? He's hot, looks really nicely put together. Aside from a little bit longish pasterns )and ears for that matter :lol: ) I like him a lot, but would like to know what you all would look for. He will be my next Eventer/Dressage horse.

Also I know there are bloodlines to be wary of (breaking down bodily, or errant in the brain department, mean, etc)...but I don't know very much about them. Here is this guys pedigree:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/sendero3

All your comments are really appreciated!

done a few and they make super duper eventers as they are very bold but will say if hes been raced then its all new to him from feed to tack to include you as you heavier than a jockey
maybe - to work and fitness to the work as in different mussles being used so start him off long reining then add the tack as a saddle is a different weight to racing one
then school him on the flat and plenty of transitions baiscally start him of as you would a youngster
you might find as the hrose has been tuaght to run he might be a tad strong so a volcanite kimblewick would help you a lot when jumping
but if hes got clean legs and hes upto it then i dont see no reason why not if hes been steeplechased or nh even better they jump like stags

Just Walter
Sep. 14, 2009, 10:48 AM
I bought him! He's coming home on Thursday! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barnfairy
Sep. 14, 2009, 01:52 PM
Congratulations, best wishes, and enjoy!

Updates with pictures when you can, 'kay?

foundationmare
Sep. 14, 2009, 04:02 PM
Congratulations!!! Please do keep us updated on your fun.

maunder
Sep. 15, 2009, 06:44 AM
Congratulations! What a lovely horse! I love that floating photo! :yes:

War Admiral
Sep. 15, 2009, 01:13 PM
Congrats! He's fantastic! Keep us updated!

Hollywood
Sep. 15, 2009, 03:54 PM
Yay - Congrats! I was hoping you wuold pass so I could have him! Hope you have fun with him.

kdow
Sep. 15, 2009, 04:23 PM
Yay - Congrats! I was hoping you wuold pass so I could have him! Hope you have fun with him.

I think there may well have been quite a line for "well, if you pass..." on that guy - he looks lovely. :)

jenarby
Sep. 16, 2009, 04:36 PM
lol kdow, there were! Though I admit I do love when clients post my horses for critiques. It helps me to know what people are looking for and what way the market is going. Also feels good to know I'm choosing nice horses!